/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>getting mad enough about the gender of a fictional character to compile a mosiac image solely to complain about it

Your bait is shit and also missing the M20 sidebar that everyone whines about.

No, that'd have to include oWoD stuff, and that doesn't fit the "CofD is SJW" narrative.

I bet that Boston Baseball cabal is shitting themselves with joy, assuming that the Cubs didn't win the World Series before now in the CofD.

I don't really see anything wrong with any of them. Even the Mortal Remains one everyone hates.

It's essentially left vague on purpose, as far as I can tell. Does "three drinks" mean three separate incidents? Or can you shove three points of Vitae down someone's throat? Personally, I feel that just from a narrative standpoint, the vitae should have to have a chance to "settle" first, and it should at least require three separate scenes.

I've honestly never understood this, and people getting upset over it seem like justification for it. It's the same as all of those people pointing out that if you have trouble believing Dumbledore is gay, but no problem believing he's a wizard, you're the one with a problem.
It's completely right. "If you have no problem with violence and supernatural horror but aren't comfortable with this thing that exists in real life to no one's detriment, maybe you might consider why that is". I mean, fuck, I can think of several ways to be more explicit about it.

Also missing some from other books. I also love this one, especially for Brucato's crazy "there's enough magick for everyone" line, because I'm pretty sure much like Grant Morrison and Alan Moore, he believes the book itself is magic(k).

>I've honestly never understood this, and people getting upset over it seem like justification for it. It's the same as all of those people pointing out that if you have trouble believing Dumbledore is gay, but no problem believing he's a wizard, you're the one with a problem.
>It's completely right. "If you have no problem with violence and supernatural horror but aren't comfortable with this thing that exists in real life to no one's detriment, maybe you might consider why that is". I mean, fuck, I can think of several ways to be more explicit about it.

Inventing new pronouns is not in any way going to solve transphobia. Use the pronoun of the gender you identify as. The body is irrelevant. Trying to invent a new pronoun for yourself just makes you look as an attention-seeking idiot.

The issue with the Mortal Remains one was that a book I paid for called me a bad person for rolling my eyes at a 6,000 year old mummy attaching to a social trend that they'd see as ridiculous-or blasphemous if a scribe.

Its bad writing combined with taking a political point and directly attacking the reader with it. WoD's always used politics to sell its books and whatever, its a part of the genre, but Mortal Remains's blurb in particular struck me as something a competent editor would've toned down-especially since "remember my pronouns!" is barely a thing anymore, most people just use the plural pronoun for people in transition, so now its insulting AND dated.

Nonstandard oronouns are plenty common, and a creature that already views itself as a metaphysical occult construct of memories loosely attached to some long-dead jerky has every reason to find a mortal trend that describes what's always felt right novel. Are you tryong to say that an Arisen using a cell phone is unrealistic, too? Hell no. A large of the game is being an ancient thing thrust into the modern world, and everything suggests "new" concepts of gender are just as useful to one as new technologies.

This is the same shit people pull when they act like trans folks didn't exist a few decades ago when they actually just lacked the vocabulary and social safety for it.

The sentiment expressed in the sidebar is right: if mummy superheroes are cool but actual identities people use in the world today strain your credulity too much to handle, your priorities are out of order.

I'm not sure how to say this without coming off as condescending, but your understanding of this issue seems very limited.

>Inventing new pronouns is not in any way going to solve transphobia.
It's not intended to. If transphobia ends due to everyone realizing that gender is a social construct, and that we can construct new ones as easily as we create music or movie genres, that's more of an afterthought.
>Use the pronoun of the gender you identify as.
This statement is the one that makes me feel you don't understand the situation. The reason for those pronouns is that those nonbinary people don't identify well with either of the conventional genders.
>The body is irrelevant.
You are aware that dysphoria is a physiological ailment, right? That it causes emotional distress? And emotional distress in and of itself is a physical thing. When people say they "feel" sad or angry or happy, that's not just a metaphor, it's an actual physiological sensation.
>Trying to invent a new pronoun for yourself just makes you look as an attention-seeking idiot.
I'm trying not to be condescending but this really does just come off as hateful and antagonistic. You don't really seem like you *want* to understand the issue, you just want to dismiss it out of hand without any sort of empathy. People come up with new pronouns or new gender terms to describe themselves because people by and large want to feel a sense of self-worth and self-determination and self-acceptance, and all sorts of other things that have the prefix "self-". There are no doubt several things that you do in your daily life that are more attention seeking, and even then, if we as humans did nothing attention seeking, we'd only wear dull grey clothing and never work on our appearances beyond the bare minimum for hygiene.

I can't believe we're doing the gender sidebar derail again. I wish people would learn to just ignore the damn things if it really bothers them.

Anyone know if there was ever a Mage hack that allowed for a Pathless character creation? Choosing your own two Arcana strengths and your one Arcana weakness and all that? I feel like Mage Chronicler's Guide had something like that, but I don't have a copy on me to check.

Maybe you are a bad person, if that's what you read it out of it. Because what it says is that if you get upset over it, perhaps you should reflect on WHY it might be that you're upset. Which, I'll note, you don't seem to be doing.
More than that, though, a 6,000 year old Mummy that's been through several different bodies and likely been both genders and even other ethnicities.
> "remember my pronouns!" is barely a thing anymore
It's barely ever been a thing before. I should have mentioned it in my last post, but barely anyone is a stickler for pronouns aside from she/he and they (which is not called "the plural pronoun"; it's singular, it's just conjugated as if it were plural).
>a social trend that they'd see as ridiculous-or blasphemous
I'll let Jakki handle that.

But Mummy superheroes aren't cool

That's more or less what it was, yeah. My first Mage game was like that.
No Path, choose your Arcana, ST chose our weakness. I think we got to choose which Resistance Attribute we got (that's standard in 2e)

Mage Chronicler's Guide has that, called "Warlocks of Arcadia."

>Nonstandard pronouns are plenty common
No, they aren't. Get off the internet and interact with real people. Hell, if you get five people to acknowledge your made-up gender with your made-up pronouns in real life, I'll change my vote to Hillary Clinton.

>Nonstandard oronouns are plenty common
Where, FurAffinity?

I'm not big on the whole "gender as social construct" shtick. It just gets used an awful lot by cis hetero bros to make trans women feel like some separate, third gender "neither up nor down." If gender is simply a construct, why are some folks so tortured by what they were not born as?

Thanks, ya'll. I knew it was in there somewhere. Now to go find where I put the damn thing...

Lol you're going to be in tears, all "election fraud! Count the black votes!" Come Nov 9th, and if you aren't you'll be living under a totalitarian fascist state LOL #steamingtrump #borntoloose

I've said this before and I've said it again: my IRL friend group has all of one cis person in it. Just because you aren't associating with queer folks doesn't mean we aren't out there.

Eh. I know like, one LGBTI person, and I can't fucking stand them.

Cool.

I know several people who've done that. Kate Borstein uses ze/hir.
That said, I will disagree with Jakki there. Plenty of people *prefer* those pronouns, but very few if any people will get upset if you don't use them, unless you're intentionally misgendering them (i.e. using "he" simply because they're AMAB)

Those cis hetero bros don't understand what the phrase means. I mean, transgender people are the ones most championing that philosophy. It's essentially about how gender roles are not set in stone, and are completely based on societal norms. Men used to not wear pants. Many cultures have had multiple genders. The notion of "this is male, this is female, these are the strict things that define them" is relatively recent.

You know what, let's talk about these games.

Is anyone here interested in Monsterhearts? The 2e Kickstarter has been going on since about Halloween.

kickstarter.com/projects/averyalder/monsterhearts-2

I made a thread about it the other day, but that turned out about as well as you could imagine.

>my IRL friend group has all of one cis person in it
>Nonstandard poronouns are plenty common

You're own limited bubble or self-selection is not determinative of what is or is not "plenty common" with respect to the general public. Further, that you consider nonstandard pronouns to be a "good" is not a reflection of their wider acceptance or use.

I personally couldn't care less about the issue, and I assume the vast majority of people haven't given the issue any consideration whatsoever. While I would likely use the pronouns in private interactions if requested, I would not use them in professional correspondence precisely due to their ambiguity, lack of acceptance and simple awkwardness.

On a related matter, if the goal is to encourage acceptance of alternative pronouns, I would suggest choosing only one or two rather than the near limitless pronouns that creep up in discussion. Additionally only choose words that are easy to pronounce. "Z" should be avoided, and forget about a singular "they" as the public considers it a plural term, historical contentions notwithstanding.

There's been a lot of drama since she cut Mike Diaz Truman from the project.

Which I'm with her on, by the way, even if I do like his work.

>and forget about a singular "they" as the public considers it a plural term, historical contentions notwithstanding.

Why would you go through all that effort to disagree with the least-contentious thing on the table?

It's not really the least contentious because it's potentially one of the most confusing terms, particularly in business and similar correspondence and other documents.

"They" might not be not a new word, but it still has a lot of acceptance and use problems due to the singular vs. plural issue. Arguing that it was once used for singular reference a very long time ago doesn't really positively encourage acceptance.

And I have one trans person in my group, and one who used to be.
Your anecdotal evidence isn't any more valid than mine is.

Who?

The whole point is that it's limitless and you're not beholden to any specific term. Also, Singular They is more and more widely accepted, to the point that it was the Word of the Year. Your layman opinions really mean nothing. Whether you feel people should or shouldn't do something really has no bearing on reality, much to everyone's dismay.

Her anecdote was "these people exist, which is counter to user saying they don't"

No offenese to anyone anywhere, but I am firmly in the, I-don't-give-a-shit-stop-giving-me-extra-work-to-deal-with camp. or the IDGASSGMEWTDW for short.

Seriously I'm not putting extra work to insult or pamper to anyone, so I just don't care, and I'm not going to put in anymore work for complete stranger, unless I actually meet them in RL. You're just a name until I meet you in meat space. and Even then it's not my fcuking business what's in you pants unless we're about to do the horizontal tango. so can We collectively get this over with and then continue with making fun of each other over a game?

Cease this pronoun and gender bullshit before it gets out of hand and derails yet another thread.
Why don't we brainstorm WWI era hunter groups?

>Why don't we brainstorm WWI era hunter groups?
Why? That sounds terrible.

I want to make more Bloodlines and Lodges and Legacies. Or Hunter Orgs that aren't limited to a particular time period.

Focused on the war, or in the civilian life by the sidelines?

Not the right war but, Inglorious bastards?

the werewolf thing is cringy and super Magical Realm.
Demon thing makes sense and is fine, I actually like that detail.
The last one feels so patronising and is actively mocking the audience.

The Werewolf one makes perfect sense because they're half-spirit, and therefore fluid. You'll notice a lot of Mother Wolf, Father Luna stuff because of that.

Read the book before bitching, please.

CodeCrackers Legacy? Fate and Prime to crack the hidden meaning in code whither German or Seer in origin?

Mortal Remains describes the Sin-Eaters of the era as Fog Walkers, maybe start there?

Was I bitching? I was simply stating instant reactions from reading it.

>Hunter Jews killing Nazi Zombies and vampires.
I can dig it.

Please just let it go. This has been going on and on since the Belt of gender change was a thing. Spirituality doesn't have much to do with gender.

Come on join the fun.
Anyone have anything with werewolves and a BrotherHood of Steel mashup? Brotherhood of Steam? Like with the rising industrial age. Steam became a power tool and thus the spirits of Steam found themselves patronized and became benefactors to wielders and craftsmen? Fire and water were almost always opposites until steam power brought them together. Like a buddy cop movie.

Water: Fire you're a loose can that doesn't play by the rules!
Fire: And You're slipper weasle who always slips through the cracks
Steam: Damn it You're both the best officers we got and from Now On you'll be working together

With their American Ally, Blazkowicz. Their more saboteurs than straight up fighters. Which is why they call Blazkowicz a cowboy, when he goes full hog

I didn't mean WWI Bloodlines/Lodges/Legacies. Though I guess that works.

With his Aryan Features he often disguises himself to get the upperhand....just don't ask him to speak german.

As difficult as secretly getting half a liter of your fluid into somebody.

I think it's fun. Some groups could still be around today or become part of modern ones (German occultists becoming the original Thule Society, US agents being part of proto-Valkyrie). Plus I already have made a ton of janky bloodlines, but almost no hunter orgs.
Why not both?
That's basically WWII Valkyrie.
It's a start. Here's what I have at the moment:
>Hermetic mages with divided loyalties
>Russians trying to weaponise vampirism
>Italian futurists with fingers in every pie

>Whether you feel people should or shouldn't do something really has no bearing on reality, much to everyone's dismay.
>Proponents of queer theory.
>Reality

user? I have bad news

That's Uncle Phil.

He doesn't count.

>Your layman opinions really mean nothing.

Then why do you keep posting

4/10

>Trying to invent a new pronoun for yourself just makes you look as an attention-seeking idiot.

(Because they are)

>>Taurobolis Ghouls get the Nosferatu Curse from being too pretty
>I don't think they do. Or at least I certainly don't remember anything of the sort, and I've played one before. The Galloi are my favourite Bloodline. Anyone can benefit from Taurobolium, and they don't suffer the clan Flaw, they just get bonus social die. I kind of want to make Galloi for 2e now...
Right, so that's not actually true. The taurobolium ghouls have the same curse as their masters.

>First, the ghoul becomes eerily attractive, much like a recently bathed Pretty, becoming almost genderless in his appearance. His skin turns smooth and pale like marble, his eyes grow ringed with gray and his limbs appear lithe and delicate. Thus, the ghoul suffers the standard Nosferatu weakness (dice pools based on Presence or Manipulation are exempt from the 10 again rule, and any 1’s that come up on the roll subtract from successes), but this social failing is due to alien splendor, not fearsome disposition.
>Second, this alien beauty has an effect on those around the ghoul. Those mortals near the ghoul (within 10 yards) suffer a –1 to all rolls involving Composure. These mortals are more likely to become easily frustrated and drawn to temper or, similarly, give into their lusts or other dark proclivities.
>The third and perhaps strangest effect is on the ghoul’s fertility. Most true servants of the Galloi are infertile — they are mutilated in a way that their reproductive organs do not function. These ghouls, however, are quite the opposite. Any time the ghoul engages in any sexual act that could end in reproduction, a pregnancy results. Every instance of sexual intimacy to climax results in pregnancy. Male ghouls impregnate every woman with whom they have sex, and female ghouls become pregnant from any instance of sexual intercourse. This is true even if either partner normally has nonfunctioning reproductive systems (from vasectomies, tied tubes or other biological conditions).

Oh, right, the ghouls made by their special Devotion.
Those are dumb.

For clarification, this is a ghoul that at it's ghoulification had been fed the blood of the Taurobolis, this is a special rite, not just any ghoul that was bathed in blood.

Nah, not that dumb. Like the graph says, they're pretty good until they start throwing over six, seven dice.

It's also important to note that you don't need to use Consent of the Magna Mater to make a Ghoul. As far as I recall, a Ghoul can learn and benefit from Taurobolium as well as any other character.

True. I just came to answer the question 'When is it worth making a CoMM Ghoul.

Never :V
The only real benefits above a normal ghoul with Taurobolium is having -1 Composure to everyone mortal around them (making them good for controlling other Ghouls, I guess) and super pregnancy.

I need some help guys. I've been playing with taking my group through the cWoD metaplot, with the short to mid-term goal of having fun adventures, and long term seeing how sticking with the same group no matter how much power and influence they can gather will affect the Final Nights.

Thing is, our GM for our current game just threw in the towel, and I'm up. I have maybe a fortnight to prepare for my first session. I don't even have all the core books in physical form yet.

I need to know, what is the earliest 'jumping on point'/supplement that is metaplot focused in the modern setting? Is there a timeline anywhere I can use to build my chronicles?

The worst bit is I have a Mage and we saw Doctor Strange last night. There is going to be fucking paradox errywhere.

Actually what I find jarring is the torture and torment you are inflicting upon the english language. There are 4 gender neutral pronouns in the english language already you do not need to torture in this foolishness. If you would like to learn what these 4 pronouns are, attend a elementary school english class and pay attention.

Dark Eras companion when?

>rape and impregnation fantasy: the character.
>for both genders.

Soooo... women want to be fucked by them, and will get knocked up, and men want to rape them, resulting in the victim ending up knocked up 100% of the time if they are a lady ghoul?

I... I don't think I've ever seen such a blatant manifestation of magical realm.

>Anything involving sex is magical realm
Man I wish people would get over their weird insecurities.

Please, tell me what *four* gender neutral pronouns there are. In the meantime, here's your
>(You)

I generally go with 'it' out of earshot. Not that guy, but what can I say, I'm helpful.

Your google fu needs more than zero dots.

whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_(cWOD)

I'd love to hear what they say about (You)

>I'm guessing they hold up fingers to indicate dick size behind yo back, bra

That's about as clear as blood riddled diarrhea for someone so new to the setting. I appreciate the attempt, but I already found that, and completely glossed over at the way it's presented. It doesn't help that it's messy as fuck.

Someone throwing out the name of the earliest (chronologically) pre-done adventures would be really helpful.

Can someone explain to me what is the difference between Werewolf the Apocalypse and Werewolf the Forsaken? What's the W20 deluxe? It seems to be newer than the Forsaken one.
Mage is supposed to be the strongest among these right?

Forsaken and Apocalypse are completely different systems and settings that have some of the same themes.They're more different than most editions of D&D.

W20 is a 20th Anniversary of Apocalypse.

Anything involving any sort of metaplot is going to be clear as mud.

Hah, so salty. I actually have an acquaintance who is trans, and he is a decent person and we get on. It's the salty fuckers who want me to change my language and worldview, when I really don't care to do so and will not be forced to, that irritate me. And even then just a little. I don't like anyone trying to force their agendas onto me. Doesn't matter who they are or what they represent. They can get fucked. In fact, it's about the most certain approach to make me apathetic to a cause, because it reeks of attention seeking.

If they are saying that about me, I don't give a shit. You know, all one of him, who is a nice guy.

So what is with the clan weakness of the (VtM) Tremere?
They are only blood bonded to their elders, right?
No wonder every new player wants to play Alucard with them.

How to do this right?
I guess the GM needs to force the player to act as a proper Tremere, to play by the rules of the Clan.

Any experiences with this?

Anything you don't agree with is attention seeking. I wonder if you realize how often you do things for attention. Like yearning for this (You).

Unfortunately, these books were printed on a treadmill schedule over multiple editions, so there's no real jumping on or off point for the metaplot beside the cores and their basic assumptions. There's no real "here's what happened suppliment".

However, we live in modern times, and there is hope. There is a wiki.

whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_(cWOD)

Use this to pick a starting point, use the bibliography to find the books with the metaplot details you want, and you're all set.

The real weakness is adhering to Tremere tradition and hierarchy or being hunted by Tremere. The first drink is to encourage loyalty. Keep their secrets, protect their interests, obey their orders, come to them first with anything interesting. Insufficient loyalty gets more drinks.

But, like, more so than most clans.

Dont overplay their weakness.

Oh, shit, well if you want the earliest example of Metaplot books, the pre-packaged adventure "Under A Blood Red Moon" took Chicago v1 to v2, killed off heaps of characters and left behind anyone who wasn't following the script, setting the precedent for Metaplot books in general.

Nights of Prophecy was nothing /but/ Metaplot.

Wraith: Ends of Empire set events in motion that killed the entire Wraith gameline, Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand and cut the Umbra off from Mages. What followed created the Demon and Orpheus gamelines.

Time of Thin Blood explains the Week of Nightmares, a major turning point in Masquerade, as well as the appearance of Thin Bloods and Dhampir themselves.

Often the "Year of the X" themed years by White Wolf had a central Metaplot event to give them all cohesion.

Altogether, though? Ignore it. Ignore all the metaplot if you want. Keep what bits make sense to your story. No sense in killing off all the Tremere Antitribu if your campaign is all Warlock-on-Warlock action, for example.

I'd suggest avoiding the metaplot related adventures, and would suggest crafting your own adventures around the events. Premade adventures for WoD are always kind of a crap shoot.

Daily reminder:
>The Lead Game Designer of White Wolf doesn't give a shit about Chrod, too busy masturbating over Media tie-ins
>OPP have spread themselves too thin, 14 game lines and few supplements
>neither company has any effective release schedule at this point

Once we were game devs
Now we are all assholes
Living in our One World... of Disappointment
youtube.com/watch?v=4wewNseVo24

I'm curious what the other 2 pronouns are, because I can only think of they and it.

Call everyone "Sir"?

Hey, guys, I've been wondering, why Disquiet does not affect supernaturals? I am not exatly interested in promithians but there is this sin-eater girls who's a freind with frankenstein and also that creepy beast who tortured his friend back into promithian how does that even work? He'd have to remove her soul and put Piros instead..
I could understand Disquiet not affecting vampites becaus their humanitas is a fake of a sort, and demons... But in case of the latter whouldn't it be a compromise if mortals supposed to be affected? That's really confusing.

>If you find the word "zher" jarring there's something wrong with you
>When it deliberately uses a phoneme so uncommon in the English language they had to make up a letter combination to represent it
It's LINGUISTICALLY jarring, regardless of the reader's thoughts on new pronouns. Using "zh" inherently makes it come off as an attempt to sound like a special unique snowflake by deliberately using one of the most uncommon sounds in the entire language.

If you just went with "Dr. Jones refuses to identify as either male or female, and prefers people use the singular 'they'" no-one would care. Hell, I KNOW someone like that.

>Beast who tortured his friend back into a Promethean
What the fuck? Is that in the Beast book?

*shrug* it's 2016 now. Gender is a quantum state. Therefore, we need words for Male, Female, Both and Neither. Complaining about new words etc. is just asinine - language changes organically as it's used. Go ask the French how successful they are at preventing the youth from using words like "email", "Facebook", "iPhone" - they can't do dick. If everyone starts using Zhie to refer to Zhier selves, there's jack shit you, me and Zhier can do about it.

That's not quite what happens, but a story in The Primordial Feast is about a Beast who attempts to torture her Redeemed former friend in hopes that they'll be monster buddies again.

Yes, Demons themselves don't feel Disquiet but must have their Covers express it or risk Compromise, that's in the Storyteller's Guide.

Can she kill people with that jaw?

>>If you find the word "zher" jarring there's something wrong with you
That's not what that says you fuck.
And stop with this "special unique snowflake" bullshit. The amount of things the average human being already does to be a special unique snowflake is astounding, and acting like there's something inherently wrong with that is hypocritical as fuck.
You're basically just virtue signalling that your virtues are against things.

To be fair, the French tried to create a new word for email, and it didn't work because no one felt comfortable using it. I don't think these pronouns will catch on, but the backlash against them is childish all the same.

>The Werewolf one makes perfect sense because they're half-spirit, and therefore fluid. You'll notice a lot of Mother Wolf, Father Luna stuff because of that.
That one's more due to the wording of "the only reason for your game to not include mpreg is if your players specifically don't want their male characters impregnated", which is... weird.

>That's not what that says you fuck.
Sure it does. What's jarring to the ear in a linguistic sense and what's jarring in terms of fictional story content (like werewolves who eat people and vampires who drink blood) are completely different topics. They're comparing apples to oranges. A person is entirely capable of finding certain sounds jarring to the ear but not certain horror fiction concepts jarring to the imagination without needing to see a therapist.

>You're basically just virtue signalling that your virtues are against things.
Is it normal to be laughing your ass off after being accused of "virtue signalling"? If so, I'm not sure why people think it's an effective accusation.