Why is there much less love for Gnolls compared to other monster races?

Because they're all assholes. Seriously, their image and identity is deeply tied to being one of the more primitive, ruthless, needlessly aggressive races. Any attempts to remediate that just results in people calling them dog- or wolf- folk and not as "true" gnolls.
This need to have Gnolls be physiologically preordained to be assholes makes them infinitely less endearing than, say, kobolds, who are usually small, timid, and don't interpret every social action as an opportunity to dominate the other.

Speak for yourself. Kobolds a shit, gnolls master race

Glory to the wild gods, brotha'. Stump dragons get out.

You know what Kobolds have done that you haven't?
BECOME WIZARDS!
All you guys produce are voodoo shamans who have to dance around a fire, eat babies, and suck some no-name spirits' dicks to use magic.

How's it feel to know your race is dumber than the Gieco Gecko's redneck, survivalist, cousins?

>Implying primal spirits and abyssal powers don't trump some magician's cheap parlor tricks
Go home rat-lizards

Look up at that gnoll chef you replied to, I'd say there's a kobold well on the way to being shit just like he said.

Shenji the Hyena was my first waifu.

When you put it that way, Renardy in 2e's unfinished red steel setting was civilized gnolls

cause we hate fur fags

>Because Pseudopenis

Not criticizing your post, but:

I love how everyone is fine with all the rape, murder, cannibalism, demon rape, & bestiality that Gnolls already do, but-

You mention that the females have a penis and essentially give birth and have sex through urethral insertion and now everyone is throwing a small fit, yelling, "Fantasy has gone too far!! Magical Realm!!"

Silly.
Babies. Babies pooping in their biased diapers.

I have played a Gnoll Illusionist and he was the best character I ever played.

Because Gnolls are generally evil douchebags who also get dominated by their sadistic bitches.

A whole race that no one would miss if they were all killed.

>Because Gnolls are generally evil douchebags who also get dominated by their sadistic bitches.
>A whole race that no one would miss if they were all killed.

Wait I thought that was the Drow. Are they Both the same thing?

because werewolves are a thing

They're basically what "that guys" want in monster races, aggressive, intimidating and tribal.

They are very similar. The thing that distinguishes them is that Drow mostly attract BDSM enthusiast, as well as Femdom fetishists because the fetish is a lot more emphasized, while Gnolls attract furries and randumb CE dickheads.

I would miss them. Gnolls are cute.

>any GM who makes Gnolls good, cute or otherwise non-evil
I am very happy that I do not game with you.

Who said they had to be good or even non-evil? Hyenas are cute, too, even when they're eating a carcass.

...

...

I dunno, Hyenas/Gnolls can be cute.

Now I really want to make a character who parades as a small innocent prey, wanders into a pack of hyenas/gnolls and then puts a few dozen bullets in their stinking hides.

Because gnollo contendere

...I'm sorry I don't get it. Could you please explain it to me.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolo_contendere

1. Stigmatized by furfaggotry
2. Have never been featured prominently in any major literary work
3. Compete with orcs in both fluff and crunch
4. Overall weak concept (not actually any weaker than orcs, but in light of above points are less likely to be targeted for rehabilitation)

I made a thread about how to fix this a few days ago that got a lot of really good responses.

1) Gnolls are pretty unique to D&D
2) I don't think there's ever been a single D&D setting that has ever portrayed them in a remotely positive light

Kobolds, goblinoids, and orcs all have been shown to have exceptional (not necessarily "good", just mold-breaking) members of their race (Meepo, Nojheim, Obould). Gnolls haven't. They've universally been shown to be evil and rapacious.

I think Eberron is an exception, but Eberron's entire schtick is that it's full of exceptions, so that's hardly a useful touchstone.

I don't think its just that they're evil. Even in published material, they are considered less inherently evil than, say, illithids.
Granted, some depictions go a bit farther into the realms of stupid-evil puppy-kicking, but there's really no basis for this. As of 4e they don't even take a penalty to intelligence anymore.
Someone just needs to write a popular book or something that shows gnolls being sneaky badasses instead of dumber, more expendable offbrand orcs.

Are mindflayers really evil though? Or are they just attempting to gather the information that is not yet formatted properly in the elder brain and thus innacessable to society. If you go willingly the process doesn't really hurt even. The self is an illusion and the elder brain will set you free.

Gnolls are disgusting demon tainted scavengers hellbent on the destruction of civilization and innocence
Only demon lovers would make court with a creature made up of two different scoundrels!
Pelor willing,good and justice will wipe them from earth

>Nojheim
That story changed my view on fantasy, and affected me dearly when I was a 13 year old reading it (I believe it was in Realms of Valor). I was accustomed to evil races and some exceptional individuals coming out from them. But that was the first story that I really see how "good" races had not only sick and wicked individuals but the society was also okay with it. The human village used the goblin as a slave and hanged him later on, I remember drizzt leaving the place in disgust, rather than attacking the village leader who did that.

And its never touched again, there is no justice, when 3rd edition came out I search the village leader, hoping to find what happened to him, nothing, nothing at all. And I believe it was very good for Salvatore to leave it at that, even if he did it unintentionally.

Before asoiaf or witcher, who explored these topics far better than FR, for me there was Nojheim. FR was always my favorite setting I wish there were more examples of this realistic darkness tone to it. Similar to witcher

Volo's Guide to Monsters just came out with new fluff for gnolls, and they are fucking evil.

They exist only to murder, enslave and feast on the flesh of sapient creatures. They don't even have a language that can convey complex concepts.

I'm not even sure if they reproduce normally in 5e or if all of them are just hyenas that fed on the kills of Fangs of Yeenoghu.

Uh huh. This is basically 4e's gnoll lore, only doubling down on the "demonic corruption!" angle and stripping out all the bits about how "hyenas are not evil at heart, and so gnolls can turn their backs on the Abyss and embrace their purer primal origins instead".

One of the 5e modules also had a gnoll suffer so much demonic corruption that it went "insane" and developed empathy and happiness, so there's some precedent for nonevil gnolls.

>suffer so much demonic corruption that it went "insane" and developed empathy and happiness

That's stupid and memey as fuck.

That adventure has all sorts of stupid bullshit that the DM can throw at the party, though most of it is optional things to use while the party's exploring.

like:
>Giant web-filled chasm, miles wide and full of spiders in the underdark
>A pair of goblins figured out that if they put some oil on their feet, they could slide at incredible speeds across the web, and offer their services as guides across the chasm
>That is to say, they're well versed in surfing the web

Or the sentient sunblade that's afraid of the dark, or the intelligent gelatinous cube.

I like it. Wouldn't make sense for an orc or what have you, but for an innately evil creature like a gnoll corruption and insanity manifesting in empathy sounds good.

No it doesn't.
Insanity doesn't work that way.

Gnolls should not exist naturally. Hyenas do, but once they're gnolls they're fucked. Plus Hyenas have connotations of cruelty to them as is. It's an animal you expect to be evil. Laughing and taunting as it nips at you to bleed you out so the pack can eat you alive. The Hyena's of the Lion King were real fucking chaotic evil.

AMEN!

Insanity caused by demonic energies works like that on a demonic creature.

Not any more evil than wolves or lions or any other pack predator. And the hyenas of the lion king are shitty stereotypes based on misunderstanding the relationship between lions and hyenas.

5es gnoll lore is absolute dog shit. In fact 5es lore in general is absolute dog shit. It shits all over 30 years of established lore by making them unnatural demon things instead of the, idiotically stereotyped, Hyena folk who happen to worship a demon lord.

>Not any more evil than wolves or lions or any other pack predator.

Wolves are pretty fucking evil too. Lions are proud and incredibly aloof.

>And the hyenas of the lion king are shitty stereotypes based on misunderstanding the relationship between lions and hyenas.

I don't give a shit they were full of character and that's what matters. This isn't National Geographic. This is fucking fantasy.

Demon thing gnolls mutated from hyenas that eat the flesh of profaned corpses is so much cooler than Hyena-folk that worship a demon. Beastmen are an unnatural blight. Did you learn nothing from Warhammer or Glorantha?

>Did you learn nothing from Warhammer or Glorantha?
You mean two shitty settings with a fuckton of terrible elements to them. Why should I learn anything from a setting used for a terrible wargame and one that features Donald Duck the race?

Because Gnolls are cunts and deserve murder. Anything less is too good for them.

>You mean two shitty settings with a fuckton of terrible elements to them. Why should I learn anything from a setting used for a terrible wargame and one that features Donald Duck the race?

You have the shittest of taste, go play with your furry hyena-folk bullshit.

...

To avoid gnoll stigma, you can just use wolf people instead.

That is infinitely worse

Or just use humans.

Oh, wait,

Nigga doesnt even know about glorious Renardy.

Hell no

>replace demonic horde with generic furries
What the fuck are you trying to do?

People are jealous of the big barbed gnoll cock

Its a small thin ring at the base of the glans and is mostly vestigial. Not the cats where its covered in spines.

...

>le all human setting messiah; everyone look at how original I am! Ebin xd

Replace demonic gnolls with generic wolf furries by the looks of it.

>he did not get the hint from the other linked post

I think a joke

My gnolls look like that too. But they're one of many races integrating into a green apocalypse world together. They draw on a lot of hyena myths and legends of various cultures for fun. They're had a lot of neat development thanks to one of my players, and one gnoll in the story has even become the metaphorically-literal Mother of God.

Tell me more about the green apocalypse

Can anyone explain what the fuck this fag just wrote?

2 posts in.
I expected nothing less from Veeky Forums.

French noblemen wolves aren't something you can remplace gnolls with, most of the time.
Even when they appear as native american wolves, lupins are quite distinct.

>My gnolls look like that too.
That user's gnolls look like that too

>But they're one of many races integrating into a green apocalypse world together.

The world has gone through a large catastrophe and the people living it are adapting to it

>They draw on a lot of hyena myths and legends of various cultures for fun.
The gnoll take inspiration from from several myths and legends about hyenas

>They're had a lot of neat development thanks to one of my players,
One of his players has helped him a lot

>and one gnoll in the story has even become the metaphorically-literal Mother of God.
One of the gnolls has become an important figure in the story

I'm glad I could help, user!

Because the only people that don't want to play them as the evil fucks they are, are furries.

Well 5e also goes nuts on the orcish rape monster angle and fills the hearts of half orcs with gruumsh-given psychotic compulsions. 5e is not monster pc friendly

Thanks user: now that's much clearer than OP

Seriously? Gnolls are one of the most blatantly evil and fucked up of monsters. Drowsy would be jealous of the torture techniques Gnolls use on their slaves. Gnolls should be purged.

That just makes them great villains. I'd take them over drow, and drow get a fuckton of love

They're great monsters and villains. But the topic at hand is very likely for player character Gnolls, hence why op said monster races.

>implying their evil-as-shit psychological problems can be remediated by a good marketing campaign
Works for the GOP.

>I love how everyone is fine with all the rape, murder, cannibalism, demon rape, & bestiality that Gnolls already do, but-
I'm actually not fine with any of this outside the murder, and even that's only because it's fantasy violence.

That's a pretty Gnollish method of killing a group. Pretend to be something weak, lure the prey into a trap, ambush, murder, garnish and eat.

>A pair of goblins figured out that if they put some oil on their feet, they could slide at incredible speeds across the web, and offer their services as guides across the chasm
>That is to say, they're well versed in surfing the web

>citation needed

The 4e PDF from earlier in the thread. Describes a Gnoll leading some poor sap into an ambush using Ghost Sound of his dead girlfriend.

Yes, Mind Flayers are evil.

1) They don't actually need to do cereomorphosis. An illithid tadpole left to its own devices will grow up into a neothelid, which is around as smart as an illithid and just as psionically powerful. It simply has an alien mindset (even by illithid standards), but then as it's a giant worm thing, this makes sense.

2) They don't actually need to eat brains, either, at least not according to Lords of Madness. An illithid who doesn't consume brains on a regular basis starts to go "mad" according to the same book, but arguably that "madness" is simply the illithid reverting to the more natural neothelid mindset.

3) Their entire civilization is centered on omniversal conquest and enslavement of every single other race.

4) Their whole society is based on a lie. Illithids believe that, if their brains are consumed by an Elder Brain, they'll live on in the Elder Brain as part of a gestalt consciousness. This is just a lie perpetuated by the Elder Brains, however. An illithid brain consumed by an Elder Brain has all of its knowledge go to the Elder Brain, but the personality is gone forever.

>Now I really want to make a character who parades as a small innocent prey, wanders into a pack of hyenas/gnolls and then puts a few dozen bullets in their stinking hides.
>That's a pretty Gnollish method of killing a group. Pretend to be something weak, lure the prey into a trap, ambush, murder, garnish and eat.

>what are ambushes
>what are lures/baiting tactics
>lures/baits=ambush

>inb4 I was only pretending to be retarded!

>Well 5e also goes nuts on the orcish rape monster angle

Actually, it doesn't; it backtracks on that considerably. Half-orcs are now just as often the result of orcs encountering a human they think is particularly orky and stopping fighting said human and his/her people for a little bit for a chance to get it on with the human.

It also has this, and it's pretty clearly "rape monsters that hear murder voices from slaughter god"
I don't know where you're quoting from, but the PHB and MM do not share such forgiving opinions on orcs.

>red steel

B A S E D
A
S
E
D

Before 3e, the Lupins were actually heavily interbred with gnolls.

Actually, wasn't the idea suggested in multiple editions - lupins did appear in 3e, via Dragon #325 - that lupins may have originated from humans crossbreeding with gnolls?

>I want Gnolls and all other beast men to be basically demons with no good because Warhammer did it and because it makes them easier to genocide.
>This will totally solve the problem of how Gnolls are are always portrayed as Always evil with no redeeming or endearing features, and just being discount orcs that you are allowed to genocide.

You are the reason this thread exists. Please hop off GeeDubs dick, find a rope, and hang yourself.

Yeah, there were multiple origin stories, not helped by the fact that even Mystara had two different kinds of lupins (the Renardois and a bunch of related native-american-like tribes on another continent)

So what I gather from this thread is that Gnolls are more often than not shit
which is sad because hyenas are fucking rad

Volo's Guide to Monsters, the latest release.

None of what you posted explicitly mentions rape (though it certainly doubles down on the violence part), and Volo's Guide would seem to segue okay with the Monster Manual's entry: Orcs are murder monsters, but when they meet someone who's just as murdery as them, they really want to get it on with that person as part of a kind of eugenics program to create a better murderer. And they have no interest, meanwhile, in raping weak men or women, since the resultant child would only dilute the strength of orc blood rather than adding to it.

So in 5e, orcs are extremely violent, but would appear to disdain rape, or at least the rape of someone who is incapable of fighting back.

Your 20 STR barbarian Red Sonja knockoff who could kill an orc with a bitch slap, on the other hand, is their version of Meghan Fox.

Are gnolls really evil though? Or are they just attempting to gather the proteins and carbohydrates that are not yet properly arranged into gnolls, and thus useless to society. If you go willingly, the process is quick and mostly painless. The self is an illusion and gnolls will happily set you free.