So, Care to tell me in detail, why ANYONE thought this second founding nonsense was even a remotely good idea...

So, Care to tell me in detail, why ANYONE thought this second founding nonsense was even a remotely good idea? What was Guilliman even thinking when he wrote this?

>Wow, we just got out of a fuckhuge civil war between Astartes that almost destroyed everything.
>Maybe we should decentralize power among the Astartes so it's harder for entire Legion sized throngs to turn against the Imperium.

and in the process utterly reduce their ability to defend jack shit

The number of threats that needs an entire Chapter, let alone more than one, are astonishingly small. The IoM's strategic position is a lumbering giant playing whack-a-mole. Behemoth was shattered from ONE chapter pulling everyone together and making a stand. Legions were only really necessary when the Astartes were taking and holding worlds, not when the IoM is on the defensive.

Except that didn't happen and you are wrong. With the exception of a few rare cases largely based around its battlefield doctrine being slow to react to new threats (tyranids, tau, and necrons), the codex astartes is always presented as being entirely beneficial to the organisation of the marines.

>Defensive
and see thats the issue, the IoM needs to be on the offensive, this is unacceptable

this is what we call bad writing

The IoM has enough trouble actually getting useful tithes out of its worlds, and fending off heresy and non-chaos induced rebellion as it is. They can't reliably get their ships outside of the Astronomicon's beacon, which slices off a chunk of the galaxy, and they have no idea how to turn things like the Eye of Terror back to normal space.

The reason they're on the defensive isn't because they don't have enough military force to attack, it's because they don't have the political/administrative abilities to expand further, or even really to hold on to what they've already got.

Tell that to the space wokves, they seem to be doing better then any other chapter, because they stayed a legion

They're barely twice the size of a single chapter. Hardly any impact from still calling themselves a legion.

Except they aren't and you're wrong. Where are the space wolves described as being "better than any other chapter"?

When they took on the inquisition and won

Speaking of which, I happen to know of some individuals with a very particular set of skills interested in discussing that incident.

That.. that isn't related in any way at all to the question I asked.

Any other chapter that rightfully tells the inquisition to fuck off gets fucked over, not the wolves

There was a cogboy who made essentially a "logic bomb" and tried to use it on the Eye. It didn't work but that might have been because the Eye is too large.

let's see you pitch that idea to the High Lords, heretic

TTS is wrong about the codex and rail against it because they bought into ultramemes

Who fucking cares? The topic was in reference to a chapter's ability to defend a given area of space from outside attack.

And they defended Fenris from a united inquistion

No they didn't. Bjorn teleported onto their command bridge and called for a cease fire. Try doing that with Tyranids and see how well it works.

Yeah sadly for Op I have to agree with

>laughing Ultramarines, BA, and DA

Bear in mind Behemoth attacked one of the top 5 most defended planets in the entire imperium, that had a months forewarning to further bolster their defences, they were also backed up by a fuck load of PDF and Guard and were reinforced half way through the battle by an imperial fleet (without that assistance they would have lost) and Behemoth is tiny compared to Leviathan, which has devoured over a dozen chapters

Not arguing that the imperium has a fuck load of man power, but they are struggling to defend their borders

I think even more critically than how think the chapters are stretched is how it's logistically impossible to keep track of what each chapter is doing at once. Sure, Ordo Hereticus tries, but do you honestly think that the likes of the Alpha Legion couldn't get around them?

Some chapters at full strength (1,000) rebelling is much less cumbersome than some legions (100,000+) rebelling.

Decentralizing the power of the SM makes them less effective, but this also applies to when they rebel

The codex astartes is not a book on how to create a strong space marine, or an effective space marine. It is a how to make a loyal space marine.

It's logistically impossible for the Tau Empire to even exist and yet it does.