How would you do a modern or near modern military rpg? What system (other than GURPS) would you suggest?

How would you do a modern or near modern military rpg? What system (other than GURPS) would you suggest?

Have the players be military guys, probably special forces.

Use Traveller - Mongoose edition. Simple and deadly, with all the weapons and vehicles you need.

Delta Green to both questions

Other than GURPS? SPURG.

with this

It depends on if you want a system that sides toward realism, or something more cinematic. Twilight 2000 is pretty much THE modern day (well, Cold War, anyway) warfare RPG. On the cinematic side Savage Worlds also handles modern military stuff pretty well.

BRP?
It's the same system as Call of Cthulhu. Super simple, intuitive rules that are good for beginners. A sanity system for representing Apocalypse Now style madness. Very deadly and gritty, with options for if you want to play a little more cinematic, and it's got stats for close to everything under the sun.

T2k's weapon handbook has rules for statting your own guns, so it does work up until modern day.

Also, it has Merc 2000, which is a really great setting if you want to do an episodic mercenary game.

How crunchy is it? While I want realism, I don't want something so thick no one will want to play it.

Not super crunchy, unless you want to use all the survival rules included (You really only need to if you want to use the T2k setting)

T2K is about as Crunchy as Traveller. They were originally made by the same company too.

There are some optional rules that made them game significantly more complex, but they can usually be ignored.

Advanced Recon.

Actually.... now don't get me wrong, normally I fucking HATE GURPS-fags. I think their assumption that the system is truly universal and works for everything is completely blind to the ways in which mechanics influence tone and genre-appropriateness, regardless of what the flavor-text of mechanics say. HOWEVER, the tone of "gritty modern military fetishism" is... well... kind-of-sort-of one of the tones that GURPS is actually suited for. I actually think GURPS is wrong for most games, but it's perfect for gritty military fetishism.

Phoenix Command

I actually wonder how well GURPS combat holds up when you actually reach military range engagements (200-ish meters). I found it works well for close quarters combat stuff, but I find that most systems break down once you get past 100 meters.

From my experience, it holds up well enough, I've not played a system that holds up better at those distances.

You'll have around -12 from distance penalty, so "spray and pray" is out of the question. As long as you're anywhere within human skill levels, unaimed bursts will only hit about 0.5% of the time, if that, meaning you'd run out of ammo or your gun would malfunction long before you score a potential hit.
A mounted machinegun throwing out lots of bullets might score a potential hit every 10 seconds against a single target, more even, depending on what optional Tactical Shooting rules you use.
The way to actually hit something is to have nerves of steel and a good hiding place, brace your rifle, and Aim down the sights. That way even a rookie soldier can hit 25% of the time, a veteran hits 50-60% of the time, while a trained sharpshooter taking some time on his shot will hit essentially all the time as long as there aren't other factors like bad weather or darkness. Assuming the target isn't actively dodging of course. If he's dodging you can halve those numbers.

The problem I find is that combat at that range isn't very interesting.
There's no way to effectively close or increase distance, and no way to meaningfully flank or outmaneuver. Due to how drawn out encounters at those ranges become you can safely take cover and reload out of sight, no need to draw your secondary weapon or fall behind a teammate or anything. Things like grenades, the occasional slam or melee attack, etc. all become unavailable. It's even hard to meaningfully utilize the tactical environment and grander strategic scale advantages falls to the GM's ruling.
Instead you're both forced to hunker down in some nearby good cover and plink away until someone gets lucky or support arrives.

WoD without any of the supernatural stuff? Depends on what you want out of the game.

Introducing vehicles or something could perhaps make military range engagements a bit more interesting. I get where you're coming from, infantry on infantry combat at regular engagement range isn't all too exciting (Funny that you can think a firefight isn't exciting), but if you throw some tanks in to the mix, or whatever, it could get neat.

I would think that if you had a light machine gun, your squad would lay down suppressing fire and move from cover to cover (assuming your goal was to control whatever the other guys were sitting on).

I like the idea of using a system like Traveller. To me, much of the fun of a military game would be planning, interacting with local forces, gathering intelligence, etc. Focusing too much on firefights and weapons reminds me a bit too much of DnD 3.5, where most of the setting and characters can just become wallpaper for combat scenes.

Twilight 2000's setting and such does that very well. In fact, I think it's probably one of the better military settings out there, despite how simplistic it is.

I don't think I would unless I had some sort of unlikely group where the GM and players all have their CIB or CMB or what have you. I'm not confident in my suspension of disbelief to handle it well enough otherwise.

Which edition would you suggest?

Twilight 2000 V1 has eh rulesets and such, but a very good, if simplistic, lore/setting.

Twilight 2000 V2 has assloads of vehicles and weapons statted, a solid enough system, and an okay setting (Since it was written after the cold war, they made it hard alternate history and had the August Coup in the Soviet Union succeed, and then kind of bullshitted their way to world war 3)

Twilight 2013 has horrible, cringe inducing geopolitics, but a VERY solid and fun combat system, probably one of the best combat systems I've ever seen. The issue comes in that it doesn't have as much weapons statted as V2, and it has next to no vehicles statted (Though I did write up a conversion for V2 to 2013 if you want it).

If you ask me, use V1's setting with 2013's system if you can deal with a more intricate and complex combat system (That is VERY fun to use), or use V1's setting with V2's system for a game that is still indepth, but not overly so.

>As long as you're anywhere within human skill levels, unaimed bursts will only hit about 0.5% of the time, if that, meaning you'd run out of ammo or your gun would malfunction long before you score a potential hit.

So you're saying it would just be like real life.
I don't think I ever hit anything in Afghanistan, I just shot in the general direction of the gun fire coming at me, then again I had a SAW.

Call of the Void: Ballad of the Laser Whales.

Top Secret/S.I.

Mostly unknown system, but it was made for Cold War era weaponry and settings, and this makes it super easy to adapt to a modern setting.

that game's system is just Friday Night Firefight with a few houserules, really.

As people mention Interlock, I suggest Cyberpunk 2020 with Maximum Metal supplement for vehicles and heavy weapons. People who are motivated can also use Mekton Z Plus to create about any vehicle they want, ranging from tanks to carriers.