Pathfinder General /pfg/

Pathfinder General /pfg/

>THIS IS IMPORTANT!
If you want build advice make sure to say what 3pp you can use, if any.
>THIS IS IMPORTANT!

What makes you, yes, you, such a bad player/GM?

Unified /pfg/ link repository: pastebin.com/JTj1yEmU

Kineticists of Porphyra IV: End of an Era playtest: docs.google.com/document/d/1XTgiUdDSrTCvATEDeDJ4MnbDgS6KEBLu2e9mjj5fwaw/edit
Broken Shackles Playtest: app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/59701/broken-shackles-test-play
Creation Handbook Playtest: docs.google.com/document/d/1kitAB8sHgmuD3fvOMuI_KyV_dxpO2wrxQmbnCoRgglA/edit#
Avowed Playtest: drive.google.com/open?id=0B5HkyGRtGZy3SWVhdWFBWERWWjg

Old thread:

Other urls found in this thread:

docs.google.com/document/d/1raGvq7PhzuKn5zuTwKLafzOkJTEWbdUjmEFXkV6vpwY/edit#
d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/reincarnate
d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes---3rd-party-publishers/hexes/grand-hexes/hex-grand-forced-reincarnation-su
twitter.com/AnonBabble

I kinda want to play a hunter who uses a Polearm that rides a Stag animal companion, What gestalts well to let me do that?

Must be elf, and must be Shalelu's younger sibling.

Pic Semi related. Doesn't have to be a drow. Or a lesbian

>That feel when you want to run a game but you know it's going to die

do it anyways

I'm currently in process of writing Savant, an initiator class with heavy focus on a single discipline. I currently have the abilities for Black Seraph, Cursed Razor and Sleeping Goddess done, and I'd like to see what people think before I write the rest.
docs.google.com/document/d/1raGvq7PhzuKn5zuTwKLafzOkJTEWbdUjmEFXkV6vpwY/edit#

Are there any interesting 3rd party races that aren't overly tied to psionics

>interesting
>3rd party
>races

i'll take that as a no

Try a hunter|medic, a hunter|mystic, a hunter|stalker, or a hunter|warder (ordained defender, zweihander sentinel) with archetypes of your choice. This gives you an animal companion, spellcasting, and initiating all in one package. You could also use the ranger with the ambush hunter archetype instead of the hunter, for more raw combat power.

Instead of being a regular elf, it would be more ideal to choose an elf-blooded race, such as oni/qlippoth-spawn tiefling elf (Str/Wis), asura/zurami-spawn tiefling elf (Dex/Wis), garuda-blooded aasimar elf (Str/Wis), generic skinwalker elf (Str/Wis or Dex/Wis), aellar (Dex/Wis), half-sahuagin elf (Dex/Wis), merg (Dex/Wis), spring child (Dex/Wis), woodborn (Dex/Wis), or wulfkin (Str/Wis). Blame it on a resurgent bloodline.

Alternatively, if you are dead-set on being a pure elf, you could look into the "Erda elf racial archetype" from Worlds of Power, which swaps out +2 Intelligence for +2 Wisdom.

You could also consider a warlord (hussar) gestalted with a Vancian bard, a Vancian sorcerer with the psychic bloodline to avoid ASF, or a Charisma-based spherecasting dip-multiclass of your choice. Good elf-blooded races here include demon/cerebrilith/namuci-spawn tiefling elf (Str/Cha), div/rakshasa/yatudhana-spawn tiefling elf (Dex/Cha), angel-blooded aasimar elf (Str/Cha), azata-blooded aasimar elf (Dex/Cha), half-bugbear elf (Dex/Cha), houri (Dex/Cha), lurker elf (Str/Cha), ornibus elf (Str/Cha), and piper elf (Dex/Cha).

A warder (hussar) gestalted with an Intelligence-based Vancian caster with some method of avoiding ASF, a psion, or an Intelligence-based spherecasting dip-multiclass is also an option. Plain old elf would work for this. You could also be a generic/daemon-spawn/sonillion-spawn tiefling elf (Dex/Int) or a decataur (Str/Int).

What CR bonus should I give vs gestalt?

Who is the best skill monkey? I'm thinking Questioner Investigators, but perhaps some kind of Unchained Rogue?

How do I build the skillest of monkeys at level 3?

You mean what's CR the PCs should be or CR the encounters should be?

It depends on the level of optimization. Characters can fine CR+5 encounters regularly when optimized. For gestalt at high optimization? After level 3 or so make CR+5 the norm. CR+7 is bosses and big fights.

I think i'll give vanilla elf a try, i dont think i've ever played a bog standard elf before. I will be Taking fleet-footed.

Hunter|Warder looks pretty interesting.

Try an investigator (empiricist) with the Student of Philosophy trait; or a hedgewitch (font of inspiration/spiritualism), investigator (questioner), or stalker (vigilante) with the Orator feat.

All of these builds have Intelligence-based class features, 6 base skill points, a generous class skill list, inspiration with free uses on certain skills, and Intelligence-based social skills.

A hunter|warder will encounter some MAD issues unless your warder side is archetyped into ordained defender. (As usual, the zweihander sentinel archetype will be of great help as well.)

If you insist on being a pure elf, you would do well to take up the "Erda elf racial archetype" from Worlds of Power as well, swapping out your +2 Intelligence for +2 Wisdom. The 40-foot land speed will be wasted due to your mount, but it cannot be helped.

Either way, it seems you will be a Dexterity-based hunter|warder. Look into Daisho Expertise or Polearm Dancer to make the most of being a zweihander sentinel. An elven branched spear would work well for you.

Would spear dancing style be worth looking into?

>katana

>1d8, 18-20/x2, can be used martial with two hands, ewp to use with one

>Nodachi

>1d10, 18-20/x2, martial, 2h, comes with brace

Wait why would you ever use a Katana if you weren't trying to use a sword with only 1 hand.

You wouldn't, also weapon tables in Pathfinder are shit

i know

Is there math out there that would ever make a Naginata worth it?

>What makes you, yes, you, such a bad player/GM?
I don't do any prepwork apart from thinking where the story might go, and then usually only 30 minutes before the session starts unless I have some idea through the week or there was something ongoing.

I eyeball all the stats off my NPCs from player characters, so the toughest NPCs tend to have the AC of the toughest player character, the CMD of the maneuverable character, and the wizard in the back has half random spells and half spells that will fuck the group up.

The monsters are literally CR equivalents out of the book, with the descriptions and abilities torn off and other abilities stapled on from other CR equivalent monsters and shaped like homebrew creations.

The players still love my NPCs that I make in less than 30 seconds of thoughts because I make them gimmicky and memorable, and my combats because they're always pretty close fought things with lots of cinematic stuff happening.

Naginata is ok. 1d8 x4 crit is par the course. Slashing damage makes it better than hooked lance or scythe. Reach is what makes it really shine. Its only real competition in martial weapons is Lucerne Hammer.

but i presume a fauchard outshines it?

I really wish I could play a game with /pfg/. My friends would judge me too hard for any of the shit I want to play.

I want to create a character that's like Illaoi from League of Legends (pic related). She's the priestess of a chaotic deity, snd she uses the orb in her hand both as a focus and a weapon, going all in in the fight. She also spawns tentacles that hurt her enemies and attack their souls.
Still, I'm not sure which class should be the best for her. Any thoughts?

No, because Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus, Spear Dancing Style itself, and a swift action at the start of each combat to activate the style are far too heavy an opportunity cost for you.

Remember to take the Conversion inquisition as an ordained defender, so that you can safely dump Charisma to the ground.

Assuming you take the "Erda elf racial archetype" and can work with 25 point buy, I would suggest Strength 8, Dexterity 18+2, Constitution 12-2, Intelligence 12, Wisdom 16+2, Charisma 7. Compared to other warders, you will be relying on sheer AC to avoid physical attacks.

You could also try Strength 7, Dexterity 16+2, Constitution 16, Intelligence 13, Wisdom 16+2, Charisma 7, but 2 more Constitution modifier will not lead to *that* much more durability compared to a higher Dexterity. Your attack rolls, damage rolls, AC, Reflex, and initiative will drop compared to Dexterity 18+2, and you will have the same CMD anyway.

Either way, you will want to place all of your favored class bonuses into hit points. Wear a mithral chain shirt and Muleback Cords.

Yeah, I didn't want to go with the expected "and then he got special training that helped him control it."

Instead his master just decided he was a fucking weirdo and told him to get the fuck away from the clan.

Is there any way to get an effect similar to Hamatula Strike at level 5?

I realized just now I really want to play Roadhog in my next campaign but it'll take ten years to hit 7.

Why isn't /pfg/ running a Skybourne game with a crew of nothing but courtesans?

Because even though we talk about lewds, we want fightan too

Entertainer Training is just one perk for the crew.

>not being a crew of murder prostitutes

I thought pathfinder players were supposed to be into anime shit

The evolved companion allows 1 point evolutions, venom is 2. It would be DM fiat I guess.
What druid spell gives the animal companion a venomous bite attack? I was planning to be a serpent shaman, hunter, inquisitor or a zealot vigilante.

Other than that, I know the primal companion hunter can grant evolutions, but it was a backup option.

I don´t know about anime, that makes me think of the legendary geisha from Shogun TW. That, or Planet Terror.

Hmm, at what level do you want to do this? I can see her as a strength-based warpriest (if you can put black tentacles on her list, if not magus) or a summoner. You could be a summoner and claim that your eidolon (tentacled horrors, in her case) is an avatar of your deity. The god callers of that region on Golarion where the Worldwound now is were confirmed to essentially be summoners.

Also, check the horror materials for the Cthulhu mythos deities if you want to make her a warpriest.I don´t see her casting enough to be a full cleric.

Who sneezed?

What?

Since you got trips I just looked up the original just for you
There's no one else in it

That's quick work user.

On a related note. Is it possible to play a character like Kindred, who's in a sense, split into two halves?

One shots are better than no shots

Summoner

Oh, question to any DMs. Do you just ignore the minmaxing induced pattern, or is there an in setting reason why every single spell caster in existence just so happens to wear a haramaki? Or does "everybody has the same armor" just not seem very important?

That has literally not been a thing in any game I've run or been otherwise involved it.

>Mage armor is a level 1 spell
>Bracers of armor
>Permanency exists at later levels
Stop shilling

Maybe take a page out of super stand sunday's book and refluff summoner or witch/wizard familiars, then just fill in the rest with some RP.

Maybe even convince your DM to let you use the figment familiar archetype as a witch, that way they can't kill the familiar since it's part of you. The familiar is the half that knows the magic, the witch is the half that knows the physical skills.

At least level 6. Warpriest seemes a great idea; I've looked for a fighting Oracle, but the only mystery that gives Black Tentacles is the Dark Tapestry one, that's more spellcasting oriented.

If no one uses it (and I've never seen anyone use it) then ignore it and it's not a problem.

If one of your casters uses it, just make a point to have it on every spellcaster NPC the players encounter. The witch in that bandit clan that's terrorizing the countryside wears it, the court wizard wears it, the level 1 wizard/bard jesters entertaining children with cantrips in the city wear it. And make sure NPCs are aware that anyone wearing it is a magician of some sort, and respond accordingly. If a player casts a spell without wearing it, have nearby NPCs act as if they just witnessed the impossible, like that casting a spell without wearing a haramaki has literally never occurred to anyone before.

its +1 ac who cares.

There are some tasty armor bonuses you can pick up that mage Armor just can't compete with.

bracer of armor exist too they also go past mage armor

whats your point

At lower levels, wearing a haramaki is certainly a good idea, as Mage Armor's duration simply is not enough to be practical.

By the time Mage Armor's duration improves to an appreciable amount, a caster wants to *avoid* wearing a haramaki, because Shocking Grasp, Elemental Nimbus (Air), and the like will gain attack bonuses against the haramaki-wearer. Yes, the Mage Armor can be dispelled, but being able to fall back on a +1 armor bonus to AC is not worth the risk of being hit by a magus's high-powered Shocking Grasp or the like.

Enchanting a haramaki is not worth it in most cases, since it will cost a minimum of +4,150 gp, and the cost for the default +1 enhancement bonus to armor and the masterworking will both be wasted.

This, on the other hand, is hardly a concern because Pathfinder's definition of "haramaki" makes it out to be a metal-reinforced girdle or corset, which can be concealed.

How often do you even fight enemy magi or Initiators with E.Flux?

I'm fairly new to Path of War. What are the best disciplines for a natural attacker?

Certainly more often than enemy casters trying to dispel your Mage Armor specifically, as opposed to any other spell (or spells, with Greater Dispel Magic) of yours.

Even if you do encounter such, a +1 armor bonus from a haramaki is hardly going to be much solace.

Chimera Soul is the designated natural attack discipline

Not Chimera Soul for the most part (Primal Fang is still a good 1st-level boost), ironically, since natural attackers thrive on bringing to bear all of their natural attacks as part of a full attack.

You want a discipline that can provide great damage boosts to all of your attacks and cause them to ignore damage reduction, and a second discipline that can enable easy full attacks.

Broken Blade can accomplish the first with Pugilist Stance and the "Knuckle" boosts, while Primal Fury grants pounce with Raging Hunter Pounce. Thrashing Dragon can enable moving and full attacking with Leaping Dragon as well, and there is always the Tactical Rush feat.

Remember that natural attacking initiators almost always want to be Dexterity-based, as Deadly Agility will give you Dexterity to damage with all of your natural attacks. As well, a one-level dip into medic (sanguinist) will give you your Wisdom modifier in extra damage on all of your natural attacks.

Unfortunately, Path of War optimization is currently in an awkward limbo since disciplines like Broken Blade and Primal Fury are on the metaphorical chopping block for downgrades (rightfully so given their damage potential). You should ask your GM how they will be handling such disciplines in their game.

Is a Privateer Desperado Warlord good or are firearms still just too shit to bother with?

Is reincarnation a thing on Golarion? I mean for people and beings other than Samasara.

d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/reincarnate
d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes---3rd-party-publishers/hexes/grand-hexes/hex-grand-forced-reincarnation-su

not only is it a thing, but it's a thing someone in your party might be able to do

> What makes you, yes, you, such a bad player/GM?

I'm so poor at problem solving that my characters rarely have any agency - situations that can't be solved by "punch them" or "ask them to help" tend to leave me at a loss. I'm pretty prone to needing to rebuild when a build I was really excited about turned out to not be fun in practice... or break the game over its knee. And sometimes the same goes for fluff and I need to retcon.

Probably the worst part is that I'm prone to panickedly dropping out if shit goes tits up rather than problem solving.

Check out Bloodforge, skip past the bestiality and the rape. Everything left is sweet as hell.

Man that sounds hella fucking awkward when I put it like that. I WANT to like that book but hghghgh blinklings aellar half-gnolls.

>"haha that can't be right I'm sure you have to be adjacent to do a grapple!"
>check the grapple rules
>nothing about being adjacent
>nothing even about them being in your reach
Uh question what is stopping me from making a grapple attempt at a guy a hundred feet away from me

While the gunsmoke mystic is on par with, if not better than, the regular mystic due to its touch attacks and its Wisdom to firearm damage, I am afraid the privateer is somewhat worse than the regular warlord.

Ranged attacks has far less maneuver support than melee attacks, so a ranged initiator needs impressive benefits to match up to melee (e.g. gunsmoke mystic class features, psychic armory class features). A regular warlord can vindicate themselves as an archer by Rapid Shot full attacking with Pinhole Gambit or Victory Gambit. A desperado warlord can do the same, but all that extra accuracy is wasted on a firearm's touch attacks, and a desperado already gives up much to use firearms in the first place.

Essentially, the gunsmoke mystic is a great archetype; the desperado is a bit of a downgrade.

The privateer can uplift the desperado, but it more or less requires you to play a bizarre character with Deadly Agility and Sea Combat who mostly uses firearms as melee weapons with touch attacks.

I'm fine with focusing on Sea Combat, I suppose. Fits the character I have in mind. Thanks, user.

I should have clarified. I meant the more traditional, "after you die you are reborn into a a new being" sort of reincarnation.

Not "resurrection but with a drawback" reincarnation i.e the spell.

You could also just play a gunsmoke mystic.

nothing

Too magic-y for the character concept.

But that's retarded how can I just grapple someone from another zip code

I think you're supposed to be able to physically contact them SOMEHOW.
Like, lasso them.
Or, in this case, throw your motherfucking meat hook at 'm.

Yes and no. Your soul ascends to the Outer Planes, where it does indeed become a new being.. a sort of laval Outsider, rather than anything from the Material.

you can't

don't rules lawyer, the RAI is clear

It doesn't say that, though. It just says you can attempt to grapple a creature.

>telling /pfg/ not to rules lawyer
>where_do_you_think_we_are.jpg

Anyone else here fucking despise Granted Maneuvers as a mechanic?
I hate it so much. I want to play Mystic but... Eugh.

yes, i know where i am

if someone tried to rules lawyer that i'd just kick them from the game.

Does this mean you will be eschewing Elemental Flux, then? I would not recommend that; Elemental Flux is perhaps the single strongest and most flexible discipline for a ranged initiator, thanks to Elemental Nimbus and its ranged attack-compatible strikes and boosts.

What is your character's starting level?

Do you have access to "Emerging Guns," "Commonplace Guns," or "Guns Everywhere"?

>What makes you, yes, you, such a bad player/GM?

I zone out when combat starts. Hit the pizza, send a few texts, shit up jabber, I'll do basically anything but pay attention to the encounter and it gets on the nerves of some of my friends. This is a problem I only have when playing Pathfinder, where there are a million cool and flavorful character options and all of them are fucking terrible and you're going to run a cookie cutter build or die pretty soon anyway. Outside of combat I have a lot of fun, when it's all roleplay, investigation, problem solving, etc. so I usually end up playing the party face, which I'm fine with anyway.

The point isn't literally to use the mechanics; it's to point out flawed wording. The lack of a range might mean that you can grapple people at 100 feet, even if that's not intended, but we still don't KNOW the RAI. Is it reach? Adjacent?

>paizo
>flawed wording

well i never

I haven't fully fleshed it out but the basic concept is to use Stupendous Strength to wield both a double-barreled shotgun and a grappling hook, potentially going for a Prodigious TWF build if it's not shit. You can easily guess what I'm trying to do here, and so E.Flux and other such anime magic things don't fit.

It's level 5. Haven't put much more thought into it yet.
Should be able to get the shotgun for 1/4th the price if not less.
Not looking to be super optimized but it would be nice to not be shit.

don't let your dreams be dreams user

I'm trying, user. And I'm gonna make it, too.

We're all gonna make it.

This will be a mechanically awkward build in many respects. A grappling hook is an exotic weapon, costing you either a feat or a 1,500 gp ioun stone. It is also a ranged weapon, so you cannot use it as part of melee attack strikes, and you will have to use Dexterity for its attack rolls, unless you take the Powerful Throw feat. The grapple from a grappling hook also applies only on a critical hit, and dragging your target towards you is mechanically difficult even with such a weapon.

You are investing heavily in a weapon setup that is mechanically unsupported by initiators.

This sounds very MAD but fucking awesome and I don't even play overwatch.

>We're all gonna make it.

Why not sue Fools Errand with an Ogre Hook

>Never even take a look at Mythic Adventures
>GM decides to use it
>Have to choose features in the moment, can't go home and read it
>Only explains the first part ones because we start in mythic level 2
>Pick Champion with fleet charge because goddamn pounce!!
>2 sessions later we reach mythic level 3
>Fleet Warrior ability
Goddamn it, couldn't he tell me there was going to be an ability that will render fleet charge completely useless? now I have wasted a feature

Or

Couldn't Paizo not put features that render other features useless IN THE SAME CLASS?

Fool's Errand doesn't have a "GET OVER HERE" maneuver as far as I can remember. You can't throw the Ogre Hook either. Am i missing something?

I feel like my GM ought to let me grapple and pull people with the hook if I pay a feat for it or something, since he's quite lax. I've yet to ask though, this is a pretty fresh idea.
I do agree that initiators are a bit too anime for what I'm trying to do, though.

Fleet Charge isn't totally obsoleted; it gives you an additional attack and gives you a bit more flexibility with how exactly your turn can go. Granted you pay for this with a use of mythic power.

For example, if the enemy is outside your movement range, you can move, use Fleet Charge, move + attack, and then use your standard for a regular attack, giving you two attacks in a situation where you might otherwise have normally been able to make none.

Fleet Warrior is still probably the better ability overall though

There are some VERY blatant trap options in Mythic, while there's some absolutely god-tier ones as well (Precision is just disgusting.)

>looking at Synthesist summoner for my Ryuko gestalt char

>" The synthesist uses the eidolon’s base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon’s armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores."

Oh

Well that idea is dead.

sigh.

Aegis?

>Wait why would you ever use a Katana if you weren't trying to use a sword with only 1 hand.
Daisho Expertise.

i considered it, but its hard to get the same flavor out of it, since you know

the suit isn't alive

I mean i guess i could fluff it that way but its kinda bleh.

And aegis functions around heavy armor for the most part, so i couldn't even get a way to make it feel light armor.

>1st-party 3.x derivative materials
>surprised at trap options

user, the *ENTIRE POINT* of half the abilities offered in any book save "and now more spells" is to ensure that if players don't get the chance to carefully run all the numbers (exactly what was done to you) they will completely fuck themselves over.

That is the entire goal.

At this very moment, JJ is sitting in his office, masturbating furiously to 7-wisdom fatass "women", and forming an absolutely ridiculous-looking o-face at the very thought of your characters being completely and utterly shit compared to what they could have been.

Would vital strike with a double shotgun be worth it?

Well I mean the most optimal way to play Aegis is to take the astral skin form and use it for tasty bonuses while wearing ACTUAL armor.

Which still isn't that great for what your doing.

yeah, and the aberrant archetype doesn't work for me either

Skunked.

?? Synth is pretty powerful, user, not basic summoner tier but more than any martial tier

>Oh, question to any DMs. Do you just ignore the minmaxing induced pattern, or is there an in setting reason why every single spell caster in existence just so happens to wear a haramaki? Or does "everybody has the same armor" just not seem very important?
Depends on the caster in question. I don't make NPCs are carbon copy print outs of what is optimal.

What are you not getting about gestalt user.

I think user is implying that any campaign that allows gestalt is basically a competition between players by that point, rather than a competition between the DM.

>I think user is implying that any campaign that allows gestalt is basically a competition between players by that point, rather than a competition between the DM.
That is a shitty outlook.

Sometimes with my IRL friends that I'm Co-Dming with, I forget that ultimately they are the ones in charge and so I need to let them explain the rules that they know to the new players and not cut in. They don't get mad but I'm still trying to help them out a little more then I need to.