/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls Lore General

Well lucky you, but in France I seem to need to go fuck myself if I want to read these books.

Tiber wanted to paint the whole map.

Lizard tits are worth their weight in gold.

They help conduct magicka and brainwaves by diverting the flow of Daedrons, which is why the female lifestage of Argonians are more intelligent and better mages.

As the others have said, the Empire never realy held black marsh anyway, and they wouldnt have wanted to either.

The coasts are always nice to have, otherwise there would be trade ports in tamriel not under imperial controll and piracy was rampant. So they shut that down.

Inner blackmarsh has no exportable cash crops or pretty much anything else of value that the argonians would give up. Its basically tamriels equivalent of Australia.

>retconned

The only thing beeing cyordiil, however that could be explained by CHIM working retroactiveley.
ESO actually has a book in it postulating that Cyrodiil was actually a jungle and there is a dungeon in which you go to a "past worldskin" Cyrodiil that is a jungle.
Also there is a jungle in the Blackwood so who knows.

>stupid inconsistent fluff

And some good consistent fluff too.
ESO gets a lot of flack for ignoring old lore when in reality it goes to autistic levels of preserving Daggerfall and Redguard era lore.

For example pic related from OP are actually featured in ESO, they do explain a little bit further as to what they are supposed to be. For one they worship a Mother goddess related to horses which is not a direct clone of one of the divines (could be Mara tho, or Kyne) and they supposedly originally came from Yokuda, but far earlier than the Redguards did.

Realy much of the hate for the games lore comes from the KFC guy and a lot of Lorumites not actually playing the damn thing.
That and /v/ like tendencies to hivemind about the topic.

No Lizard tits in Blackmarsh. Lizard tits are just a ploy by the Hist to make you find the Argonians more relateable.
Furries wanting to fugg Argonians are playing into the Hists hand, mark my words.

If you are still noob-ish to TES lore, how badly would ESO lore set you back from the rest of the series?

No game sets you back in the lore.

Not even Oblivion sets you back in the lore.
its not like ESO has anyhting particulary "wrong":
The biggest issue with ESO is that its budget means it has to conflate a lot of things.

For example you will not see non Indoril stuff in Morrowind, they only have the indoril portion of morrowind.
You wont see an awfull lot of black marsh either, only the morrowind border.

You also wont see more than two different khajiit subraces.

But that doesnt mean it will invalidate your lore knowledge since im fairly sure it wont teach you anyhting thats outright bullshit.

Just like the other games you should understand that the world is not limited by the games and that just because Narsis is not important in ESO doesnt mean that in a time when House Hlaalu is actually very important Narsis wouldnt be a huge city rivaling mournhold.

It realy is the same for all games. If you play Skyrim and think only the dragonborn and three other people use the Thu Um then you are also getting the lore wrong.

Hey thanks. I wasn't aware that they were trying to take careful steps to preserve the lore. For context of my question I played ESO for about a year when it was released on PC so...2014? That was before I went full dive into the lore so I could run a campaign in it. Since then I haven't payed too much attention to ESO or the lore since I stopped playing it.

the circlejerk about that game is strong. id say the lore is better than pre knights of the nine oblivion, not that thats any hard.

You wont get much good lores out of most of the EP and DC storylines.

AD has good things about Cannibal Bosmer lore, Maormer and about the Dro-mathra (Evil khajiit spirits from some old ass lore book), also you end up fighting the Anti-Mane on the Moon.

The good lore of ESO is almost all in the DLCs, specifically Orsinium which i cannot stretch enaugh is an amazing exposition of Orc culture and answers a lot of the things that made no sense in skyrim (such as:How do orcs populate when only the chief is allowed to marry, how do orcs have technology when all of them are just miners, what happens if orcs worship malacath as trinimac and not the other way around)

Game got a shit rep but lore wise its fine. Its still an MMO tho with all the faults that come with that. PvP can be pretty sweet of course.
Either way, dont listen to the /v/ Hivemind. When it comes to Bosmer, Inner Blackmarsh or Orc lore, ESO is a great resource.

>Has ESO retconned any old lore from the main series?
Bosmeri Wild Hunts are the work of Hircine now.
The Chim-el-Alabal is now made from Lorkhan's blood.
Mentions of Ebonarm have been removed.
Khajiit subbreeds have been retconned.
The Green Pact is suddenly not so serious about that whole cannibalism thing.
Mane lore has been seven degrees of fucked (really, a lot of the Khajiit lore plain contradicts other lore, like naming conventions).
The transcription error.
Misplacing a river.
Also I'm like 50% sure that Orsinium's chronology is wrong, but I'll have to go check that.

Really, the worst thing for me is that the entire setting of the thing, I can't stand the Alliance War, and I have more hours and I should in ESO. Why couldn't they just place it during the Simulacrum or whatever?
It seems so incredibly strange that Tamriel suddenly had the greatest conflict in its history, with huge and improbable alliances, and then that's just never mentioned again, ever.
And the Khajiit lore, because it's just plain bad.

And I'm sure there's really good things in ESO as well, I just don't really care about the end result, the whole package, and I'd much rather discard all of it.

>also you end up fighting the Anti-Mane on the Moon
I need to do this.

Don't the Empire harvest tons of Argonian slaves? Seems like in several of the games the majority of Argonians met are doing slave labor.

>Bosmeri Wild Hunts are the work of Hircine now.

Implied to be.
They are sitll associated with the chaos of the dawn era, as quite clearly seen with the datamined wild hunt models.

>The Chim-el-Alabal is now made from Lorkhan's blood.
This isnt new.

>Mentions of Ebonarm have been removed.
He has been replaced with the celestial Warrior, who might be one of the magne ge.
Say about it what you want, Ebonarm was a Beta tester of Daggerfall, i got no problem with them giving the nedic gods different identities.

>Khajiit subbreeds have been retconned.
Citation needed, unless you mean Elderscrolls Legend which made Phamar into humanoids.

>The Green Pact is suddenly not so serious about that whole cannibalism thing.

WRONG there is an entire questline dedicated to cannibalism and there is an entire zone dedicated to what happens when Bosmer dont follow the green pact.

>The transcription error.
Its one book that is beeing contradicted by another book from the same game.
you might aswell say that the examination of the Dragonbreak by Kuhlmann is "transcription erroring the dragonbreak" because it does it away as "bad scholarship"

>Misplacing a river.
You mean like in Skyrim where the Rift river 1. flows upwards and 2. Rifton has a harbour despite the river does not connect to anywhere else without having a huge waterfall cliff somewhere in between.

>Also I'm like 50% sure that Orsinium's chronology is wrong, but I'll have to go check that.
Or Orsiniums chronology was never correct in the first place since nobody gave a shit about recording Orc history.
There is plenty of lore that isnt great in ESO but orsinium is awsome. Ive not met a single lorebeard that disagrees in that regard.

>It seems so incredibly strange that Tamriel suddenly had the greatest conflict in its history, with huge and improbable alliances, and then that's just never mentioned again, ever.

Because they arent that huge. The aldmeri dominion is the only one that actually survives

>Why couldn't they just place it during the Simulacrum or whatever?

I actually really like that idea. They could just use the arena district in IC as a frame for PvP. No faction restrictions needed which was one of ESO's biggest bad ideas from the get go. Provinces are becoming unstable and dangerous without strong imperial authority so plenty of adventuring work to be had. Provincial wars are popping up which means plenty of opportunities for mercenaries (additional PvP)

The more I think about it, the better of an idea it seems.

Onthe size of alliances:

Ebonheart Pact: Two holds of skyirm, House Indoril and maybe parts of house redoran, a couple of argonian tribes and some freed slaves

Daggerfall covenant: Three former Breton Kingdoms, Orsinium and the Crowns.

The only realy large Alliance is the Aldmeri Dominion, which is also why it took Talos to eventually take them out.
The entire thing is no longer mentioned because the alliances of ESO are temporary, there most likley have been many other alliances untill Talos came about, remember its still around 500 years till that happens in a time that is characterized with a whole shitload of Wars going on.
Also note that the majority of the world doesnt give a fuck about the alliance war.

Look at ESOs gold coast, they bareley seem to notice, too stuck up in their own inner imperial strife. Same for abahs landing where they just appear to see the war as beeing good for trade.

slavery is meant to be illegal in every province except Morrowind.

Slavery in morrowind beeing ignored was one of the terms morrowind had.

In cyrod slavery is considered barbaric. Note that despite the roman aestheitcs, the empire is not rome.

In general TES should not be seen as antiquity or the middle ages, in many ways TES is incredibly modern, maybe not always in sensibilities but simply in the age of their culture.
the medieval look mostly comes from the fact that magic exists and makes much technological advancement pointless.

...

Really? Polish here and books are usually one of the few actually decently priced products here.

Is there a source about Dunmer Marriage-Customs and if they have Divorces?

This, my main issue with ESO is not that they don't care about lore, but rather that it feels very overcrowded and over the top at times. When almost every single village or interesting place has some kind of ancient evil or other great threat that you have to beat it quickly becomes absurd.

Check this out:
reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/4nlwqw/dunmeri_wedding_customs_marriage_among_the_dunmer/
>inb4 teslore

>>inb4 teslore
not here

what's wrong with it? too much fanwank? Or is this just the usual reddit boogerman behavior?

this is a honest question

>2nd thread

Do you have the source though? :^)

I meant that reddit is not that frowned upon in this general, check the OP

Yeah, all the books costs quite a lot but if you want to get something that isn't translated or was barely distributed you're just fucked

looks like colonel sanders the loremaster

It's a little relic from Arena times that is fun to reference every now and then in books. But I agree that he's not a character you should actually show ingame.

I actually dislike how they simply use real-life dishes and actually use the real-life names for it, stuff like borscht. I dunno, it doesn't feel very TES to me.

That's give or take 170 years of difference. If you're a vampire or a really good mage that's easy to explain though.

Read the argonian account. Argonia has secceded from the Empire already, but when it was still part of it, legion influence didn't go very far.

Fixed that for you as far as I could with my paint skills. Because I'm technologically illiterate it somehow ended up being 2 MB.

Seconding this.

>canon?
no
>lore friendly?
yeah
>do you like them
yeah, I can imagine them having a lower build in plains to eat low-lying vegetation, or whatever the fuck it is that silt striders eat

poor squat form, lizard, your heels need to be flat

also, does anyone else use gloves and keeps an iron dagger on him when harvesting ingredients?

He's just not slavic enough to do that.

And to answer your question, no, I don't usually roleplay when I play TES games, shame on me I guess.

>Implied to be.
Do you want an undeniable Great Hunt-related retcon then?
Because Online has a version of Chimere Graegyn's journal (from Battlespire), where the name of Hircine's hunt has been changed from Wild Hunt to Great Hunt.
Not to mention that the book was written in 3E 172, but is still in ESO for some reason.

>This isnt new.
It absolutely is. Find me a single source from before ESO that says the amulet is Lorkhan's blood.
There's rather multiple texts that state that it's Akatosh's blood.

>He has been replaced with the celestial Warrior
It's still a retcon, as the word "Ebonarm" has been retroactively removed from texts. Check out "From The Memory Stone of Makela Leki".

>WRONG
Calm down m8.

>Citation needed
Hunal's Interview.

>You mean like in Skyrim
The fact that Skyrim did something wrong doesn't mean it's okay to do the same.
And I'm talking about the Xylo.

>Because they arent that huge
Yeah, they are. And I was talking about the size of the conflict.

You like ESO, and that's okay, but you need not defend everything about it. Part of liking something is accepting all parts of it, like the times where ESO legitimately retcons things, like editing texts.

This is probably he most autistic nitpicking you'll ever hear but that left map of the Netherlands is incorrect as the 'Flevoland' province didn't exist at that time. We reclaimed a whole province out of the sea.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flevoland

youtube.com/watch?v=N2rGlwOzLnI

Yeah thats a big issue with it beeing an MMO, they only had so much time for world design so basically every sinlge town had a questline attached to it.
Id say its a little less ridiculous in the AD zones compared to the EP zones (primarily because the EP zones were done first when the game was still gonna be a WoW clone)

Reddit Boogieman.
But this is TES lore, the community is already fractured as is, even tho i get mad at the reddit community a lot for not posting about anyhting but Stormcloak wank, there are some talented people there.

Recently some former Secunda Project guys have been posting some of the lore on Reddit so thats not bad.

>Recently some former Secunda Project guys have been posting some of the lore on Reddit
Please elaborate.

>implying Argonians arent the slavs of TES

An Xileel are russia rising.

>Wild Hunt to great Hunt
Wouldnt that imply tha the wild hunt is NOT tied to Hircine?
Which lore wise makes much more sense?

>you dont need to defend everything

i dont, i just disagree with the parts you mentioned.
I have plenty of things i dislike about ESO such as Narsis beeing an Indoril city rather than haivng Hlaalu architecture or simply Black Marsh not having enaugh weird creatures.

But the part about the Bosmer just pisses me off because it gets parroted so ofthen and its blatantly false.

>Retcons

I have to agree, then again i wonder if thats neccesarily a bad thing.
But yes, a retcon it is.

Im just fucking sick of the /v/ circlejerk about how ESO rapes the lore when in reality it doesnt rape the lore any more than Oblivion or Skyrim did.
Or Morrowind if you consider Daggerfall lore to be important (which you shouldnt)

The IRC chat the Secunda Project was on disbanded a while ago due to the service beeing terrible and members of the team having real life shit to do.
Now its been revived on a Discord channel and all that Old lore that was created is beeing unearthed and slowly posted on lore related platforms.

>everyone who disagrees with me is part of a circlejerk
Or even:
>circlejerks cannot have legitimate grievances about something
Tune down that fanboyism.

>This is probably he most autistic nitpicking you'll ever hear but that left map of the Netherlands is incorrect as the 'Flevoland' province didn't exist at that time.
>tfw this exact same thing was your first reaction when looking at the pic
autismalbros

Now I want to see slavs argonians doing slavs argonians things

What other cool province mod projects heavy on lore do we have? I'm not actually interested in the projects themselves, I just like checking out their concept art.

I already know about Project Tamriel and Tamriel Rebuilt. Skywind also has some interesting concept art.

Imagine if Todd hired some good writers for ES6

You might want to check out Beyond Skyrim.

Well, KK is still there. And Nesmith's okay.

as mentioned beyond skyrim, i think there is also an alternative to Tamriel Rebuilt trying to create Cyrodiil in Morrowind, i forgot what the project was called but they got some pretty cool stuff, tho they mostly use assets from the main game and dont do a lot of their own meshes.
But not every project can have the support of TR or Skywind.

> i think there is also an alternative to Tamriel Rebuilt trying to create Cyrodiil in Morrowind
Are you talking about Province: Cyrodiil? Althogh in this case
> they mostly use assets from the main game and dont do a lot of their own meshes
is total bullshit.

Is there an explanation for Khajiit fur patterns?
Is it jut a genetic thing?

>"Yes," Cherim said with another grin. "You see the small figure of the Khajiit stealing the rings off the dead Wood Elf? His back is facing you, but he has a brown and orange striped tail like Cherim's. Cherim does not say that all stereotypes about the Khajiit are fair, but Cherim must sometimes acknowledge them."
Apparently fur patterns are semi-unique and you can sometimes identify Khajiit by it.

Skyblivion

Aperently this picture was comissioned for Tribunal

Unknown, but likely genetic. Breed might also be involved.
Those without fur often get tattoos that look like fur patterns.

I've become increasingly fond of cheesy fantasy art over time.

I imagine that there's a world where TES never evolved beyond Arena and this is exactly what it looks like.

Its also tied to the lunar lattice.

Some breeds always look more like tigers for example.
tho im not an expert on khajiit lore.

I love old metal fanarts like this. I'm having a hard time figuring out what scene is this exactly supposed to be though.

I believe The Infernal City is the only one translated in cheeserunes at that point. If you don't mind reading in english then amazon is your friend.

>reading translations
>when you can read english

>walk always in the light or we will drag you to it!

These lads get my paladin boner raging.

i wish they were more competent.

in all the quests related to the vigilantes they get messed up by daedra or vampires.

I wonder do they tolerate at least Meridia worshippers?

ITs not fan art. it was comissioned *by* Bethesda.

I'd actually totally be on board for a setting that's basically Elder Scrolls if Redguard hadn't happened and it had continued in the Daggerfall-Battlespire direction. It would be something quite else, but it would be fun.

No, they're firmly anti-Daedra, with no exceptions. Being products of the Oblivion Crisis, it's sort of understandable.

I personnaly don't mind, but obviously the guy I answered does. Besides there is a limit to how much I can percieve some subtelties in english, for some very harduous reads i don't mind a proper translation. It all depends you english level, if user is more comfortable with a translation its his right, you don't have to decide for others, man.

The cancelled Tribunal game or the Morrowind expansion?

The same scene you can see in the center of the plaza Brindisi Dorom. The fight between Mehrunes Dagon and Almalexia.

I have no problem with reading in english but paying 40€ for a 3$ dollars book in occasion kinda bother me
Also
>cheeserunes
Made me kek

So, more games were planned during Daggerfall's creation, and right after Daggerfall came out, Bethesda started working to three projects all at once.
The project that would eventually warp into Morrowind was called originally a Daggerfall-style game called Tribunal that was supposed to be set in Summerset. That image must be from around that time.

Actually being the guy you answered to I don't mind, I even prefer to read texts in their original languages whenever I can, but if I can't find a book in original version I fall back on the translation

>Meridia worshipers

I honestly wish the series still somehow kept the 90s RPG Daggerfall aesthetic instead of going from alien-like to generic overdesigned fantasy.

I miss the times when you could have a world where colorful flowy clothing is the norm, wizards and vampires are sexy dudes with large face concealing hoods and glowing eyes, khajiit are tattooed catgirls, and priestesses are half naked sluts.

Battlespire is sort of the sweet spot for weird as hell and still very 90s.

Can someone explain why people believe in a 'flower petal kalpa model', where all of the Kalpas happen at once and have a definite end?

I swear Paarthurnax specifies that the world resets after the Kalpa ends.

I miss the style of putting a coat on over armor, fucking aesthetic as hell.

>wearing a dress under breastplate under a robe with a cloak and a cape on your back
My battlemage will never get cold.

Where's the Kynareth Order? Are they like hippies that chain themselves to trees to stop them from being cut down?

Check Bloodmoon's Fryse Hags.

Are the original vampires undead like all other vampires or some form of Daedra?

Wishing there was a way to just dress up a character without having to actually play Daggerfall and get the equipment.

Read Opusculus Lamae Bal ta Mezzamortie.

>not wanting to play Daggerfall

Wasn't Oblivion the one that was originally slated to be set in the Summurset Isles? That's what I remember from the interviews and stuff at the time, after Daggerfall was successful.

>tfw got Daggerfall for Christmas that year and at least six months of life were consumed on buying houses and not following the main plot

No, that was Tribunal.

A little while ago I decided to make a list of books from previous games that are featured in ESO even though they shouldn't be. I rather quickly came to the realization that rather than being oversights on the part of lazy devs, many of the books were in actuality retconned to 'fit' the setting.

link
pastebin.com/HmrPgcmG

What about Romanelli?

What *about* Romanelli?

iirc it goes like this

Elder Scrolls II was originally planned to be set in Mournhold and likewise called "Mournhold."
Elder Scrolls III was originally planned to be set in Sumurset and caller "Tribunal."

Both these plans were quickly scrapped.

>Find me a single source from before ESO that says the amulet is Lorkhan's blood.
1. Akatosh is Lorkhan
2. There have always been conflicting accounts of how the Chim-el Adabal was created, from the Alessian "Akatosh gave it to me" or even the "Pelinal brought it/it actually is Pelinal" to the Ayleid "we totally made it ourselves."

>Hunal's Interview
As far as I remember he only says that people like to exaggerate. This is leaving it painfully vague so as NOT to invalidate anything.

>nine divines referenced in ESO book
How lazy.

...

The end of one kalpa is the start of the next kalpa, or, at least, you can think of it that way.

The main point would be that every Dawn is the same Dawn. Shor is the son of Shor, even if it's a new Shor.

that shit is fucking embarassing

>tfw no argonian skin boots

stupid chaikaposter

>Find me a single source from before ESO that says the amulet is Lorkhan's blood
Amulet of Kings ≠ Chim-el Adabal
The Red Diamond had originally been in the possession of the Ayleids, hence White-Gold Tower.
It being made of Lorkhan's blood actually makes a lot of sense and is one of the few things I'm happy ESO made lore.