I hate the Grey Knights. I hate the Grey Knights so much...

>I think it's dumb that the emperor has Geneseed at all though
This, I assume it's something else they call geneseed for analogy sake.

That is what has been implied for a while in fluff but left ambigious, while the latest entry in the Beast books makes it clear that is in fact what happened

>are you saying some cock-holster made it so the Grey Knights have the uncut, Colombian-grade geneseed from Emps himself
yes

They both suck so much ass, very off putting

As with everything, Grey Knights are the ruins of a concept made back in 3rd Edition*. Codex:Daemonhunters was the first real incarnation that went into any depth with them, and it's a Codex that's still really fucking cool to this day.

The C:DH version were literally grey knights, falling apart from the white knights they are today. They were more like black ops, sent in to do terrible things because they needed doing and they were the only ones who could.
The Chaos corruption was the result of *massive* indoctrination and mental conditioning, rather than 'Just because'. The threat of a Grey Knight turning was a real thing and a real threat, because it was still *possible* if unlikely.
They were absolutely not good people. They did terrible things and killed millions of innocent, to save the majority. Truly grey morality where killing innocents today, saves more tomorrow.
Killing Angron took an entire Company with him and they had no individual who could claim to match a Greater Daemon, much less a Primarch. Even the Grand Masters were not perfect and while they were mighty, would still be an unsure fight with a Bloodthirster.

The whole book was simply a more mature take on the concept of ultimate evil and the cost of standing against it.

It also helped that the army was weak as balls, the stock model was 25pts and almost nobody played them.

*When they became a real army, rather than a footnote

,

It seems the shilling may have been from nobody playing them, also I don't belive in the lesser evil, evil is evil and in that state I'd have never collected them

>someone gave a sweaty autistic neckbeard free reigns over the lore for a few years, and in that time he inserted his own power-tripping faction into the canon.
But Andy Chambers was clean shaven for his reign as Overfiend.

Emps engineered a super-special new gene-seed just for them so that they're even closer to him than other mehreens.

>IN THE EMPEROR’S IMAGE
>The Grey Knights’ strength of spirit and purity of body were the two most important gifts the Emperor passed on to the Chapter through his genetic legacy. Their military training, potent weaponry and powerful armour are simply tools to aid them in their duty. Without the psychic might to use his force blade or the inviolate will to resist the Daemon, a Grey Knight is the same as any other Space Marine – a potent soldier in the Emperor’s armies but nonetheless a mere shadow of his true potential. Few warriors since the Horus Heresy have matched the flawlessness of the Grey Knights, nor are any so closely linked to the Emperor. It is that unique quality that the Emperor possesses, the nature of his spirit that allows him to touch the Warp, shape it to his will, and yet remain beyond its madness, that he has gifted to the Grey Knights. Even the Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes are too far removed from their creator to embody such purity, their genetic integrity faded by hundreds of generations and thousands of years, given to varying degrees of imperfection. Not so the Grey Knights, whose unblemished line reaches back to their maker in an unbroken chain.

>Only an unblemished soul is proof against spiritual assault, and of all the servants of the Emperor the Grey Knights are among the rare few to be all but immune. Each Grey Knight is a one in a billion example of Humanity that has an instinctual command of his psychic powers, the rarest of genetic traits that, when combined with the gene-seed of the Grey Knights, grows into a formidable and exceptional tool to combat Daemons. Without these gifts a mortal man might become a plaything for the powers of the Warp, his body twisted into vile and terrible new forms or his psyche ripped asunder by daemonic thoughts and visions.

>The Warp can corrupt even a Space Marine, the lies of the Chaos Gods subverting his martial pride or loyalty to the Emperor into a dark and dangerous thing. Power armour and bolt rounds can protect neither man nor Space Marine from the Immaterium, should they be exposed to its baleful energies. The Emperor alone was said to be incorruptible before the Dark Gods, and it is this gift he was rumoured to have passed on to the Grey Knights. Certainly, despite countless battles against daemonic forces and in the hundred centuries since their creation, not a single Grey Knight has succumbed to the influence of the Ruinous Powers – a testament to the skill of their creator and the dedication they embody.

That's from the current, post-Ward codex, pic is from the previous.

>The C:DH version were literally grey knights, falling apart from the white knights they are today. They were more like black ops, sent in to do terrible things because they needed doing and they were the only ones who could.
>They were absolutely not good people. They did terrible things and killed millions of innocent, to save the majority. Truly grey morality where killing innocents today, saves more tomorrow.

i.e. one of the biggest points Mat tried to make with them in 5th edition, and one of the things people reacted most negatively towards when he did so.

Mat kinda wavered on the "White v. Grey" Knights thing. Yes, he documented their atrocities(Bloodtide!) and made it much clearer that they followed the "purge everyone who was on the same continent as a daemon" mentality, but he also created unambigously heroic characters like Castellan Crowe, Kaldor Draigo, and Anval Thrawn-all of whom embodied the romanticism of a hopeless fight against impossible odds.

Yes

Seems like he was trying to strike a balance and instead gave us a tiltawhirl

They Grey Knights as a whole were and are still presented as shining heroes - as they were before - but judging from his own comments on the subject, we're evidently not supposed to take that at face value; at least not entirely.

It's like how on a wider level, Space Marines and Imperial Guard and such are constantly made out to be valiant defenders of humanity, noble souls fighting the good fight, despite all their efforts propping up "the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable" (putting aside that this description has never really been true even within 40k alone).

I love beating Grey Knight armies with my Black Templars.

people forget andy's c'tan nonsense, and people on Veeky Forums are usually so blinded by 1d4chan memes they can't think about Ward without their manchurian candidate programming kicking in

Muh nigga.

Make those insecure manlets cry that their big powaful armeh of super muhreens got crushed.

My crusaders charge into melee with their melee focused knights (forget the name) and they think they've got me so outmatched. Then those glorious crusaders wipe the smile off real quick

I know it goes against the grim darkness that the setting defines itself ass but having a guy chilling in the warp slaying 24/7 that daemons almost have to give a tiny fuck about is kinda cool

There was nothing wrong with C'tan except that they were special characters only.

>There was nothing wrong with C'tan except all of their implementation and every representation of them in the fluff
the models were quite good, but that's about it

Whoa, whoa, whoa, OP isn't the one on trial here.

OP got cucked by a Grey Knight when he was after a sister of battle.

> but having a guy chilling in the warp slaying 24/7 that daemons
This was cool. Having him rek Mort wasn't. Poor guy doesnt get mentioned often, he didnt deserve that.

I like their helmets tho

They're basically psykers who were transformed into semi-Primarchs. The Primarchs were born with Empy's genetic tampering, the GK's were modified with it.

Aw what's the matter, is your favorite chapter not the best? Suck it, faggot.

>also I don't belive in the lesser evil, evil is evil
Sweet child, I hope you can hold on to that belief forever.
100% not sarcasm

fuck it, I'll take the bait.

So given that your entire argument is "I dislike them because they are the bestest" I'm assuming you are just parroting what other people told you/ you never got past the first few episodes of text to speech device.

Nothing says that the grey knights are considered objectively better than the other chapters, it's just that they are better at killing daemons and resisting corruption. It's like how the white scars are the best at riding bikes or the raven guard at stealth.

you do realize that when you say inflammatory things online people will react in kind?

This

I fucking hate that show. The humour is literally grade 6 shit for kids who have never watched anything more thought provoking than naruto.

And then the newfags enter into the mythos of warhammer, looking for a shortcut through all of the wiki readings and actually good books just so they can spout the memes quicker.

1d4chan is partly at fault. But it is a great wiki with very creative entries. You shouldn't blame them for the newfags that parrot their words and pass it off as absolute fact.

...

Just skimmed my DH codex, and I gotta say you and I had different interpretations of the fluff.
The Grey Knights are explicitly stated to be secretive, and to *sometimes* engage in the slaughter of innocents, but it's definitely not SOP. There was none of the "no witnesses" nonsense that popped up from time to time post-Ward. T
he specific example given is that *sometimes* the Ordo Malleus will start exterminating communities some distance from the site of an incursion, and that more pure-hearted Space Marines might take issue with that while the Grey Knights would grimly do their duty.
They're heroic, but tarnished by the fact that they serve the Inquisition without question (unless the Inquisitor is clearly a radical, then they whack him).

I remember in particular a reference in a later White Dwarf to the intended difference between the Witch Hunters and the Demon Hunter, and that the DH was supposed to feel grimly heroic and portray the sort of characters who would generally show up to protect the innocent, while the Witch Hunters were supposed to be a bunch of scary creeps who were pretty much always bad news to be around.
You're spot on about how they weren't running around soloing Demon Princes, and I liked that way better. The rules nicely matched the fluff in that often, a fight between a Grey Knight character and a powerful demon would end in both of them dead.

>you never got past the first few episodes of text to speech device

Watching that show isn't something to be proud of.

Not that I read Grey Knight lore a lot, but everytime I look in on them, it does seem they are better at everyone else at everything, and it is pretty annoying. I mean, at this rate, why even have other factions? Or at least, that's what it makes me feel like. They take what other factions specialize in, and do it better SOMEHOW. It's just like how the ultramarines used to be. It makes the lore less interesting.

Personally, I'd be fine if the Grey Knights and Space Wolves fell off the face of existence.

Sure the humor is stupid and its shit, but its MY shit and I fuckin' love it. Hate me if you will, but I have already lost.

I didn't say it was, but they diversify their jokes by the second season to things other than memes that were getting stale in 5th edtion
See pic related

>They're such a Mary Sue power wank self-insert power fantasy in a power wanking setting.
>They are the best of the best for no fucking reason
That's a nice Chaper Master you got there. Would be a shame if something were to happen to him...

Found Magnus

Nigga they still space marines and still die like the scrubs they are as any Space marine does.

What has you so upset about them?

I love beating them with my Imperial Guard. A squadron of tanks can really put a hole in their Paladin Purest Purity Purifier Squads.

Dude, tell 2008 I said hi! Man, I mis that year. Some of that was a good year

>8 foot tall plot armoured man-beasts who spit acid and blah blah blah are not Mary Sue bullshit, but they are if they're psychic and carry stabby sticks

bravo OP. Do you hate Death Watch too?

GK were kind of bullshit in 5th ed but the current Codex is fine. They're balanced on the table, the models look great, and their Codex removed most of the over the top shit. They even lose a few times in their own Codex now.

OP is probably a butthurt SoB play and I can't blame anyone for that but you might actually get models now so get over it already, the darkness has passed

I want a fucking Custodes Codex to come out filled with stories of the grey knights just getting in the way of their cooler older brothers or getting BTFO.

That's your opinion or did some spoonfeed you it?

>They're balanced on the table
More like they suck complete ass, it should be called Codex Dreadknights,

>the models look great
None of the new plastic models look great.

>and their Codex removed most of the over the top shit
And made them bland as hell.

I'll admit its juvenile, but I like it, the series itself is not to blame for ignorance, its those using a PARODY as their only source, anyone with real interest would take what they see and to durther research

Warden of the Blade anyone?

This please

It makes ne proud that so many people took the bait.

Still, it didn't cap in 12 hours. Gotta try harder next time.

Say, how quickly do mods lock down female spess muhreen threads these days? Been awhile since I shitposted here, and I'm thinking about testing the waters.

>They're balanced on the table
They are pretty middle of the pack so I'll say they have good EXTERNAL balance, but their INTERNAL balance is terrible.

Compare Strikes to Terminators
Purgations to Nemesis Dreadknights

>Emps engineered a super-special new gene-seed just for them so that they're even closer to him than other mehreens.

Wait, what? Seriously?

The Grey Knights were retroactively redeemed, to me, by Draigo responding to Azrael being an obstructive jerk by taunting him with the GK's knowledge of the Fallen and then pimp-walking away.

Ward tended to write very "puff piece"-y Codexes no matter who he was writing for. Pretty much all his Codexes centered around writing from the perspective of the relevant faction, bigging them up and acting like they're The Best Of The Best.
People just took this to mean "aduhh he loves to jerk off the ultramarines and the grey knights" because people are idiots.

>Emps literally watched half of his super soldiers fall to Chaos, his direct enemy.
>Why wouldn't he sit back and try a Marine 2.0 that is effectively the same as 1.0, but with additional Corruption Resistance

Has it been mentioned if the GK Geneseed can ONLY be accepted by Psykers? Or can a theoretical non-Psyker become a SM using the GK geneseed?

So. Anyone else think that the 5th edition Grey Knights might have got their pointscosts reduced in post-production to sell more minis? Because Ward tended to write more balanced rules than that, and it's exactly the sort of thing I could see the Kirby regime doing.

>Nothing says that the grey knights are considered objectively better than the other chapters

Stop right there, fucking everything says this.

Whenever other marines meet Grey Knights, the grey knights are

a) presented as more important
b) presented as more powerful

This is without exception and made clear in the narration of such events. Not once has a Grey Knight ever gone, "oh wait, I guess this Blood Angel is better than me at something" but you better believe that every space marine to lay eyes on a grey knight is going to think "gee, I sure am glad this grey knight is here".

Hell, the latest beast arises book has all sorts of Grey Knight wank, apparently they're better than Custodes now too, and also are the final hope for mankind and the Emperor's final and truest dream.

>purest heart
>slaughtering you own allies for a slight buff

>implying you can't pure-heartedly slaughter them

>That's a nice Chaper Master you got there. Would be a shame if something were to happen to him...
All that'd mean is that Ragnar Blackmane would become the youngest Chapter Master of the Space Wolves ever, too, along with the youngest Wolf Lord ever.

Magnus, get off the computer and keep making convoluted schemes!
Tzeentch demands it!

Not that user, but does Ragnar have any chances to become the youngest Great Wolf of the sons of Russ?

This seems very unlikely.

Dude stabbed a Daemon Primarch in the eye when he was a Blood Claw, and *that wasn't even the event that got him promoted*. I'd say that there's every chance that he'll become the Chapter Master once Logan Grimnar dies.

Which will probably happen when the 40k version of the End Times starts.

>40k version of the End Times starts

Dear God NO.

Changing the universe, but not too drastically?

I can agree to this.

Pulling off another END TIMES?

Yeah, it worked so well with Warhammer Fantasy...

Whenever other marines meet Imperial Guardsmen, the guardsmen are

a) presented as less important
b) presented as less powerful

This is without exception and made clear in the narration of such events. Not once has a guardsman ever gone, "oh wait, I guess this Blood Angel is worse than me at something" but you better believe that every space marine to lay eyes on a guardsman is going to think "gee, I sure am disappointed this guardsman is here".

They'll probably have the ongoing plot threads all start winding towards a big climactic fight as the loyalist Primarchs start returning.

Maybe starting with Ghazhkull going full Beast once he starts fighting the Tyrannids and the resulting roar in the Warp wakes Gork and Mork back up again.

...

I really want to see his FINAL WAAAGH!!!, but I don't want GW to screw over 40K.

I'm still not over the whole End Times and AoS thing.

I need to re-listen Tunak.

Now do you two understand why I hate both space muhrens and Grey Knights?

Once they show up, literally every other faction is void and moot. It ruins any sense of balance in the lore, and gets really boring really fast.

Either that, or he actually was wanking to the Grey Knights and Ultramarines

>Killing Angron took an entire Company with him

Killing Angron and 12 bloodthirster.

Are any Grey Knights books worth reading?

Well the whole Grey Knights Omnibus.

It's some crazy heresy that to this day, Justicar Alaric didn't get along with Ciaphas Cain his own model and rules.

He's truly badass in this series. And by badass I mean that he uses a combination of brains and brawn (more of the former).

>entire chapter of psykers
>take more losses than codex chapters
>somehow still exist despite incredible rarity of candidates

I want to say that you're a fucking moron for thinking that but with the current state of canon you may actually be right.

>>somehow still exist despite incredible rarity of candidates

Psykers are not rare.
The Grey Knights poach the best from the black ships.

Whenever Planetary Defence Forces meet the Imperial Guard, the guardsmen are

a) presented as more important
b) presented as more powerful

This is without exception and made clear in the narration of such events. Not once has an Imperial Guardsman ever gone, "oh wait, I guess this PDF trooper is better than me at something" but you better believe that every PDF to lay eyes on a guardsman is going to think "gee, I sure am glad this guardsman is here".

They're really not though. The Imperial Gaurd act superior by dint of being veterans, but they don't take it to the degree of Space Marines and Imperial Guardsmen. The same goes for PDF.

Ok so in 40k, awesome armies are often balanced by the fact that they are shown to die horribly and lose in embarrassing ways. Catachan get out operator'd by the Tau, Krieg lose every published fight they get into and well, you know what happens to most other space marines.

Are there any instances where Grey knights actually get blown up or run into other factions that play their game better than them?

I only very casually got into 40k a couple years back with my friend. I chose GK and he chose Space Wolves because those are the armies we thought were cool. I've since moved away and sold my stuff and never really played seriously with more people than a couple guys at our LGS.

What makes GK so strong?

What makes Space Wolves so good?

am not jerking, I just don't know much about 40k

>Are there any instances where Grey knights actually get blown up

Mordrak had his entire Brotherhood blown up by Huron by accident.

>What makes GK so strong?

They're all psykers without the downsides that psykers usually have,

>What makes Space Wolves so good?

I think they're shit personally.

what makes the wolves "great" in universe?

Nothing really.
They're just a famous Marine chapter like all other famous Marine chapters.
Sometimes they turn into werewolves, but nobody really knows about that.

T. Abaddon.

Fuck yuo Magnus the Neckbeard

Is this a new meme?

>being called Magnus
Truly, the highest of honors.

Wheneva them weedy Grotz meet some proppa Ork ladz, the Boyz are:

a) More brutal
b) More cunnin'

This happens all of the bleedin' time 'cuz ORKS IS BEST. Not once has any git worth his choppa ever gone, "oh wait, I guess this stunty zoggin' weakling is better than me at summat" but you better believe that every one of them bleedin' Grots that sees one of the Boyz is gonna think "zog, I sure am glad the Boss is here. I hopes he don't sit on me later."

Whenever 40k players meet the GW rules writers, the GW employees are

a) presented as more important
b) presented as more powerful

This is without exception and made clear in the narration of such events. Not once has a 40k player ever gone, "oh wait, I guess this GW rules writer is better than me at something" but you better believe that every player to lay eyes on a rules writers is going to think "gee, I sure am glad this hack is here."

They are, along the Salamaders, one of the few Astartes who give a damn to the civilians of the Imperium, to the point they would attack allies forces for killing innocents without a really good reason. To the point that they normally go to planets that will be subjects of Exterminatus to kill the deamon or xeno that drove the Inquisition to take that course of action, part to save the civies, part to spite the =][=, and part because they want a good scrap.

Wait, so who's closer to the Big E, Custodus or GKs?

Should be Custodes IMO. First GKs were just dudes from other legions after all like Garro and Rubio.

Geographically, Custodes.
Grey Knight in all other senses.