Soo.. Loyalist marines from traitor legions, the list so far of confirmed are:

>Cursed Founding

Isn't that Thousand Sons?

>World eaters- Minotaurs
Also the Storm Wardens from FFG's Deathwatch RPG.

thats what they would want to tell you

Stop it.

Sorry, I was different from OP. I thought the thousand sons were considered cursed because they kept running having shit happen to them.

Sons of Horus = Grey Knights
Word Bearers = Soul Drinkers

This is now objective truth and eberything leading up to this point involving these chapters fluff has just been a ruse.

I don't think any of those are actually confirmed. A few re very likely, based on hints within the lore. the Blood Ravens have all but been confirmed and the Minotaurs seem likely, but the others are just Veeky Forums conjecture.

Plus it's explicitly stated that the Charcaradons are made up of a Terran branch of the Raven Guard that Corax didn't much like and so sent off to the opposite side of the galaxy.

>Inordinate amount of psykers.
>Very similar colour scheme.
>Massive obession with knowledge.

Face it, you're our little brothers that didn't begin to mutate uncontrollably.

Read "Thousand Sons" and then claim Blood Ravens are claimed by Veeky Forums to be TSons descendands.

>Our

Oh. That's just sad.

>goes on an RP heavy board that makes its own pseudo-lore
>is surprised by light, thread relevant RP

is this the famed 40k banter I've heard so much about?

>unironically RP'ing on Veeky Forums

don't you have text-to-speech threads to be circlejerking in?

...

Ravens being thousand sons are the only ones that are all but confirmed, unless you're as rectally rustled as Carnac or ADB over it, but nobody gives a fuck about them.

The rest are just people trying to do the same with other chapters, but have none of the overwhelming evidence.

Why is ADB butthurt over it?

I don't think you know what "confirmed" means, buddy.
Also
>Alpha Legion
>Loyal

He thinks it's dumb. Didn't he try to stop some mention of a "bloody raven" going into a HH book?

He also wrote a big chunk of World Eaters backstory to retcon the "Space Wolves killed the Lost Legions" thing, so I think the dude just hates the idea of "canon" answers to things explicitly created as Mysteries For The Ages. And I kind of agree with him.

Angelos has mutant hands under his armor.

>Iron Warriors - Silver Skulls

Even Cawkwell is laughing at how stupid you are.

>He also wrote a big chunk of World Eaters backstory to retcon the "Space Wolves killed the Lost Legions" thing,

what is this referring to?

He has a sad tendency towards stop liking what I don't like.
Fortunately, he tends to get overruled a lot when he tries to force everyone to go by what he likes, hence the butthurt.

I agree with him, but his books are cut from the same terrible cloth.

Betrayer. He had the Space Wolves get in a big fight with the World Eaters in the backstory so that "We've killed other Astartes before" could refer to something other than killing the Lost Legions.

Ah, sorry about that. No, the Thousand Sons were a first founding Legion, supposedly named such because of problems with their geneseed which at one point left only a thousand battle brothers.

There have been many loyalist chapter foundings since and of these a founding of several chapters that has since come to be known as the 'Cursed Founding' because all of the chapters created in the founding have all suffered some defect in their geneseed, turned traitor, been lost in the warp etc.

He doesn't like things that make the 40k universe feel smaller. Making connections just for the sake of making connections being one of the top ways. The example he always brings up is having Anakin Skywalker being the one who built C-3PO, and in 40k, having Perturabo's top commanders all being the exact same marines who are the main characters in McNeil's Iron Warriors novels.

BR are "hinted" to be TS descendants in the Horus Heresy books so heavily they might as well print it in foot-high letters and yell it in your face.

You're right about the other ones, though. Charcaradons are explicitly stated to be Raven Guard successors, and Sons of Antaeus are rumoured to maybe be created using DG geneseed (the cursed and dark foundings have a lot of rumours associated with them, including the possibility of the Mechanicus experimenting with the traitor legion geneseed they still have in storage), but nothing has been confirmed beyond drawing comparisons between the resilience of the chapter and Death Guard.

Hola! Unrelated /r/ here

Anyone has that old Copypasta where a lone Ork boy is the last to survive a charge on a Space Marine squad against impossible odds that ends with
"And thats how Gork became Warboss"

While being dubiously canon, don't the Blood Ravens novels basically have Ahriman confirm their relation?

Ok, I first encountered the idea on Veeky Forums. If I've given credit to the wrong people for the theory then I apologise.

Also, not read the book. Any good?

Its a 40k book. The best 40k books rip another better book off then shove it in a 40k costume.

Yet I cant stop loving so many things about this fucking setting.

Yeah. He's generally big on the idea of it being a wargaming setting first and foremost; it's a playground for players' ideas, and shouldn't be, like, centered entirely on a small set of characters.
Which I respect him for, at least.

>Loyal
>Not Loyal
Pick 2

Red Scorpions are, from memory, implied to be Emperor's Children partly because their gene-seed is even purer than Ultrasmurf gene-seed (for which the candidates were basically just the Emperor's Children), partly because they're obsessed with perfection and purity, and partly because their intense Codex compliance is kind of like how the III Legion used to fight pre-Heresy.

None of OP has had it confirmed though. It's just theories and implication, albeit some pretty damn strong implication in the case of the Blood Ravens.

I could buy Storm Wardens as World Eaters though, and Silver Skulls as Iron Warriors. But there's no real proof of either.

early fluff from the 90s

The problem with the Storm Wardens theory is we know the reason why their lineage was concealed. Prior to the Nemesis Incident their lineage was open to anyone. A traitor-descended chapter would have their lineage hidden from inception.

I must confess to having not read anything recently from BL. The most recent stuff I've read is Dan Abnett stuff like Eisenhorn and all the William King stuff like Felix and Gotrek.
Always meant to try some the HH books but never got round to it.

Most of these are implied so strongly that they are essentially confirmed.

Blood Ravens and Red Scorpions are most certainly from traitor stock.

Storm Wardens are scars successors 100% aren't they though?

>Most recent fluff I read was something published 10 years ago
>But let me give my opinion nonetheless
At least you admitted to being wrong son. Now go, cultivate yourself.

I think the Sons of Antaeus (only Cursed founding chapter to be ignored dammit, gimme some giant unkillable marines GW!) were also implied to be DG with their rules back in the day, which gave them the same T bonus as DG, or something like that. Again, not sure at all, been ages.

Night Lords also have extremely pure gene seed.

Silver Skulls seem to be descended from an Iron Warrior captain who basically grafted a molten metal mask around his head, worked closely with the Ultras, and save TWO Primarch's asses from Curze during the Ruinstorm using a weird alien divination machine. Silver Skulls are considered odd because while the staunchly claim Ultra stock, they don't seem related, and they place a heavy emphasis on divination. Also, a Silver Skull like their founder.

Minotaurs and Blood Ravens are confirmed in all but straight statement, though. Well, actually, Minotaurs ARE confirmed in a straight statement from their creator. Blood Ravens have enough behind them that you'd be stupid to think they are anything but 1kSons descendants.

Red Scorpions might as well be Luna Wolves or Night Lords, but so far there's not much to suggest any progenitor, not much more than simple supposition, anyway. I'd pull for Luna Wolves because they have an especially potent geneseed, mirroring the PURE ALWAYS SUPER PURE doctrine of the RS. Of course, the Death Eagles are confirmed EC descendants, if you want to check those out.

Storm Wardens are an odd case because . Seems they just forgot, but before it seemed open to the public.

As far as I know, Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Word Bearers, and Sons of Horus/Luna Wolves have no known loyalist successors, although I might be missing a fluff blurb here or there.

Back in Chapter Approved, yes. They were implied, but fucking almost everything in the Cursed Founding is some form of Chimera. The text from the 21st Founding research base suggests they have some kind of entirely unheard-of geneseed makeup, with organs no one's even seen before, and bony plates like fuck armoring their internals.

>Confirmed
Of those, only Silver Skulls are correct.

Laurie Goulding, may he shut up please, has said that the Blood Ravens were never a part of the Thousand Sons/DoW is not canon.

No confirmation between EC and RC.

Minotaurs use IW geneseed, but are not IW.

Sons of Antaeus are Cursed Founding and likely do not use true DG geneseed

Silver Skulls are a mix of IW and UM.

Space Sharks are the remnants of the exiled Pale Nomads, the Terran Raven Guard that Corax found too Brutal.

No loyal Word Bearers, Lorgar killed them all.

Dunno about SoH though.

>bl writers
>mattering for Relic's pet chapter
ayylmao.

Actually Iron Warriors had the purest geneseed.

I think you're mistaking "purest" with "one with the best acceptation rates" which is definitely not the same thing. IW were known to be prone to paranoia, have trust issues, and be very grim 24/7, so not exactly the purest.

>Laurie Goulding, may he shut up please, has said that the Blood Ravens were never a part of the Thousand Sons/DoW is not canon.

He threw in a winky face with it which implies he was joking. He was mostly commenting on how much ADB hates it and wants to stop it.

Gabriel Angelos is a traitor?!?! I do not believe this.

its
COMMANDER BOREALE

Wait, Relic invented the BLUD REHVENs, so the actual decision lies with them, not with assorted BL writers.

Nope, Relic doesn't have control over GW fluff. BL writer and editors do. They have the power to confirm or deconfirm the Blood Raven ties to whatever.

They are popular so GW made them canon.

>GW fluff
only, the primary exposure of the blood ravens is through videogames. Relic also goes out of it's way to shitcan any BL writing related to their spess mahreens.

Only CS Gotos fluff which were removed by BL due to it being written without any care for the fluff.

Again, Relic, as a third party company, has no control over what they create or the canon. Any confirmation about the Blood Raven heritage will only come from BL and only BL.

This thread is bait

The only chapter that even has slight hints towards being descended from traitors are Blood Ravens

Fucks sake, it even confirms in one of the FW HH books that space sharks are descended from terran raven guard that were cast out from the legion when corax arrived.

only, relic's story will be more accepted because
>wider audience
>they created the bloody thing.

accepted by who?

by the people who actually play the games relic makes?
There is already precedent for relic throwing out what GW writes with DoW2/ Space Marine.

>le tricky hook maymaym

Again, Relic doesn't have the authority to do anything with the lore. They are just a third party company. They cannot reveal anything or invent anything without GW telling them to.

And they threw out the DoW novels because GW/BL threw them out first. If GW wanted the Blood Ravens to be an Ultramarine successor, then there is nothing Relic or the fans can do about it. They are guys with the IP.

>they can do nothing about it.
>what is the entire space marines campaign.
They opened up their own continuity rather than deal with GW's bullshit, people who have been introduced to the blood ravens via DoW, will continue to use it as their primary source because it is far more consistent than GW's books.

Thousand Sons is actually one of the better ones. But you have to remember to approach everything about Horus Heresy with distance. It's a tale of myth and legend, don't look for more logic in it than you would look in the old testament.

>They opened up their own continuity

By GW's permission. If GW wanted, it will pull the IP licence and Relic will be as screwed as FFG.

And GW is making a move to consolidate the the Blood Raven game lore into the proper canon via novels and the new WD article. So...there would be any other continuity.

no other*

>is making a move.
yeah, wonder how they will fit space marines into that.
GW shoving it's IP dick into everything does nothing if there is no market for it. If GW pull's it's IP randomly SEGA will sue their asses into the saxon invasion of england. GW at the most can advise Relic on how certain factions work, and relic can be free to disregard those. See what CA did by hiring an ex GW employee to be their lore guy and changing parts of the lore to better fit their game.

Relic is not free to disregard or add anything. Perhaps only small things to make the same work.

But majorly twisting the fluff of 40K and revealing setting secrets? It ain't going to happen.

Carcharodons are getting rewritten to be half Raven Guard half Night Lords because a higher up (read: LJG) didn't like how FW made them RG. He liked the NL option better. So he ordered the Carcharodons novel made to inject "mystery" and "twists" into them.

games work*

>setting secrets
GW needs to know them to let relic have access to the information.

Relic broke continuity pretty thoroughly with captain titus.

False. Blood Ravens have been a real chapter for years.

I do belive those are Storm Giants user. Kind of greenish-white armor.

the blood ravens as we know them now are a Relic entertainment invention.

Blood Ravens waren't invented by Relic, just popularized. But as says, all the fluff for them that we have now was created withing and after Dawn of War. Mainly, their Thousand Sons heritage was speculated after Dark Crusade was released, and pretty much confirmed by Graham McNeill in "Thousand Sons"

Is the BR's kleptomania canon?

Don't be pompous. I'm still fully capable of keeping up with fluff.
I know it might seem like I'm some ignorant young fool who know's nothing about the setting but I'm actually an old fool who has been involved with this game since RT and knows a little bit more about the fluff than nothing...just!

Thanks for the advice though. I'm never too proud to listen.

>Alpha legion- Alpha legion

it make no sence that the chapter who tortures people and uses fear and extreme violence come from the sneaks emo chapter and not the bad guy batman chapter

Mate, Corax hated the Terran RG because they were best friends with the NL, and were sometimes mlre gruesome than they. Which is why he exiled them.

Terran Raven Guard was more similar to NL than Corax's legion with the difference being that instead of spreading fear the XIXth legion sneaked up on you and murdered everything, Horus used them to cut off reinforcements or fleeing enemies.

maybe that's because of their boss

>strongly implied = essentialy confirmed

Some of these aren't even implied. Some are just straight bullshit with not even a reasonable string of logic to justify them, yet somehow retards perpetuate the rumors.

Maybe that's because Carcharodons don't torture people you stupid faggot. They're scary and extremely violent because sharks are scary and extremely violent. AMAZING

THEY ARE NIGHTLORDS, JUST FACE IT

>some kind of bat-winged, flying shark that skins people alive

Horrifying.

Half NL half RG a la Ashen Claws makes way more sense than pure NL, and many dumb faggots have been trying to claim they were pure NL for years because "HUR DUR WHITE SKIN BLACK EYES" which are both RG and Terran traits.

And the most controversial thread of the month goes to...

It's literally like that Veeky Forums comic where a bunch of guys are discussing something and some guy belly flops into the middle of them, raises a finger, and says something completely incorrect/controversial and everyone explodes.

How to troll Veeky Forums in 1 easy step:

1. Say something completely wrong, completely confidently.

I don't see any mention of wiggy meme-man though.

>Thousand sons- Blood ravens
I don't see anything to suggest otherwise. The BR probably are TS descendants all things considered
>Emperors children- Red scorpions
Maybe. They do have more pure geneseed then the Ultramarines and their successors and the only Primarch who had more pure geneseed then Guilliman was Fulgrim.
>World eaters- Minotaurs
If they are descended from traitors it's probably Iron Warriors. They're tactics match and the IW were from a planet called Olympia for crying outloud. A successor chapter named after a monster in Greek legends makes sense
>Death guard- Sons of Antaeus
Maybe. Theyre probably a chimeric chapter composed of different strains of geneseed. Maybe Death Guard is part of it.
>Iron warriors- Silver skulls
Same as Blood Ravens. Everything points towards them being loyalist Iron Warriors.
>Alpha legion- Alpha legion
Duh
>Night lords- Space Sharks
I think they're a forgotten branch of the Raven Guard legion who absorbed loyalist Night Lords after the Heresy.