Alright Veeky Forums this is a thread to whine in, specifically for GMs to whine about players

Alright Veeky Forums this is a thread to whine in, specifically for GMs to whine about players.

I love my group, it's all friends and we have a good time but God Damn It they cannot fucking roleplay for shit. I like interesting tactical combat but I don't like JUST doing that. My players are all autistic murderhobo types regardless of setting or system. They can't help themselves but to make combat characters who are optimized to kill at the expense of other things.

I want some people who will do real roleplaying, in games that have nothing to do with D&D.

Wierd as it may sound, my personal experience is that text games are more conducive to that.

When you all gather around a table its hard to not see Steve and Gavin playing pretend, and the pace is also generally much faster, leading to quick descriptions or simply stating what is being done.

Compared to text games where the conversations are written out, it aint anyone but the characters speaking etc.

But thats just me.

You're actually me and that is my group you're talking about.

I've tried out and pulled out every GM trick in the book, every style of GMing and nothing clicks with them to break their cycle and thought pattern of "lets just kill that x for loot". Spending a bunch of time on descriptions of their surroundings and allowing pretty fast paced theatre of the mind style combat and they complain about a lack of grid when it's over. No matter the detail I put into locations or NPCs they just don't get immersed with the exception of one of the players who is unfortunately shut down by the band of murder hobos. They all act without thinking of consequence and when I present consequences they act like I'm out to get them and turning the session into a players vs. GM showdown.

I think I need to find a new group before it breaks me.

Is there some kind of disgruntled GM's guild out there where we all sit around in a circle and talk about where it all went wrong and get handed chips for enduring horrible sessions?

Introduce new guy to DnD. He keeps saying to the group.
>Hope I don't fuck it up
>Please tell me if I am doing something wrong.

Everyone is roleplaying and having quite a lot of fun, he outright meta games the 1st session. I try to bring it up with him between session in giving advice manner.
>Hey user, remember that time you said "I persuade the the merchant to give us better prices" then rolled the dice, it would have been more fun if you'd tried to play out the act of persuading the NPC I was roleplaying.
He huffs and puffs and I just drop it.
Next session everyone is roleplaying again, our druid is crying because the 1st bar they've found in days has no beer or ale. He goes.
>I make the druid happy.
Everyone kinda ignores it.

Another player trying encourage him to rp a bit asks his character a question. He comes out with a meta/ooc response. The player trying to encourage him says

>That's kinda meta man.
He huffs and puffs. I jump in.
>I will explain metagaming after the session.

The next day new guy has sent me a text rant in skype calling the other guy an elitist prick. He's also apparently started a thread complaining about him on an rp forum and based on his version of events everyone on the forum agrees the guy was being an elitist prick.
I try my hardest for 10 mins to explain he will have more fun if he learns to RP.
He huffs and puffs and starts saying it's hard because he doesn't know the setting. I explain maybe his bio for his 1st ever dnd character shouldn't describe him as an experienced adventurer.
He then starts saying he can't roleplay his cleric because he's not religious in real life and can't play dumb.

Basically we've rolled out the red carpet for this guy and he's using brexit/trump as an excuse to be a cunt to everyone and can't put it to one side when we sit down for dnd.


How do a replace someone 4 sessions into a campaign.

My new players cannot understand any sort of subtlety. Maybe I got used to my old group too much, and I had a better finger on the pulse of their getting it, but these guys, it's like dealing with a pile of rocks.


We have now gone four sessions where they've been attacked repeatedly by very high level killers, and the constant toll of resurrection spells is starting to bring their wealth to near zero. In every session, I have reminded them of a set of facts that they know in character, namely that the first one of these attacks had a guy shove a blue rock into one of their packs, and that said blue rock is sending out a magical signal to parties unknown, broadcasting its location.

They still do not get how the assassins keep finding them. I'm tempted to just tell them outright, and hell, I probably should, but it feels like rewarding their denseness.

I have been saying this for fucking ever. A basic sense of literacy, and your text games are x1000 more immersive, because you aren't pressured to come up with descriptions and believable dialogue on the spot.

I have the same problem, I'm looking for a different group to do a serious game with, BUT literally nobody meets the basic fucking requirements (good at RP, good literacy, not a dick) and wants to play.
Only thing I can complain about is that lack of RP and people were hostile enough to each other that I had to ban PvP. For example, person A literally changed characters because the entire group tried to kill him for stealing person B's health potion after using his own potion to revive him

Why do you all have such nightmare players?

I run AL at LGS and have a massive That Guy. We all try to call him but if he fucks up next session after we warned him I'm giving him an ultimatum. If he fails again I'll just kick him because hes reducing the fun of my 5 dedicated players who like combat and RP. This asshole boasts his characters are all raging assholes (in those exact words), how he wont respect authority and narrates kr talks over othee people's turns. Worst kind of compulsive hence why I'll boot him

So who'd y'all piss off to get tables full of these types shit cocks and/or murderhobos?

Man try playing another system that encourages people to roleplay; or punishes them for not roleplaying. Some games can turn shitty roleplayers into good roleplayers.

I think the other user was talking about real-time text games, not play by post, which is what you seem to advocate for?

I suppose that is what it sounds like in hindsight. No, I'm not a fan of PbP. I was mostly meaning that you have several minutes rather than several seconds to come up with what your character says and does. It's still active and relatively fast-paced, but you don't have to blubber over dialogue that you come up with as you talk. PbP just takes too long.

could be worse; if you ask a guy not to swaer too much in front of your family, he might bow out because he doesnt want to deal with the hassle.
And on his way out, when he insults your wife to her face about the issue, he might get offended and be an even more uncouth asshole than before, making things worse.

How do I appease a party consisting of:
>1 munchkin
>1 murderhobo
>1 guy who wants cool set pieces
>1 guy who legitimately wants to rollplay

I don't know how to make everyone happy.

use the roleplayer as a party face; build big cool setpieces for them to fight in. Make sure there are expendables for the hobo

seems simple

I run a D20 modern campaign on my campus and one of my players causes almost all of the problems.

She has no idea how to RP, no idea about what she can do because she didn't build her own character and has emotional breakdowns every 90 minutes that bring the game to a halt.

>emotional breakdowns every 90 minutes that bring the game to a halt.
for that reason alone, you take her aside, tell her "this isnt working out, and you know why. Get some self control, and we can see if yo ucan come back"

yeah, I've been getting requests to boot her or at least curb her fuckery from two of the other players. She's made herself vital to the plot however, so I'm trying to find a way to resolve this that does not involve rewrites.

this is your life lesson to never make them INTEGRAL
time to boot her and adapt muthafucka

Don't think about it, do it. Kick her out NOW, not next session, not two sessions after that. I've seen games I've played in get derailed by a problem player and I've unfortunately GMed a game in which my own leniency and lack of a backbone and willingness to kick out a player cost us the game for several months.

There's a point at which you've given too many second chances, taken a player aside and given them a talk too many times and when they don't respond or show any willingness to operate within the boundaries of the group there is no other option than to kick them out or close the game (willingly or due to the rest of your group leaving). If a certain player is making a game un-enjoyable for 2 or more players, it's their time to leave.

A re-write is always better than a remake.

My group is... stupid.

We're playing Deathwatch and it's just... maddening.

>First game
>We're all lost as shit and spend two hours loading up and getting ready, learning Req and learning the game.
>Only two players starting out
>One guys a massive /m/fag and seems well meaning but is clueless to 40K
>Other guy hates RPing
>Why are you here then?

I'm sorry, but why the hell is she there? She didn't make her character and doesn't know the rules. What is she getting out of the experience? Also, if she's falling apart over a game of pretend, please urge her to talk to a doctor or therapist.

she was a fuckbuddy of one of my friends in the campaign. eventually even free sex wasn't enough to convince him to continue being an emotional tampon and he snuck out of her house in the middle of the night. I plan to try and stage an intervention next session.
Or just let the party murderhobo get the playerkill he's been begging for so she stops being my problem. whatever works.

That sounds hilarious. Do it.

You sir are either repeating a story from yesterday or the user who posted it. If I remember correctly, most people in the thread thought the guy kicking the swearer out was overreacting, but I figured he was within his rights.

You forgot to mention his kid was around and hearing the swearing though.

Yeah, I agree with you now that you've made it more clear. PbP is impossible for me, I just lose interest way too quickly

>Most people
It was just the one dude samefagging at high speeds.

agreed. you dont shit where you eat, and you dont insult the host or by extension, his wife and family.

This is barely a complaint but id like to make it.

My table is too wacky. All of our campaigns devolve into wacky hijinks, slapstick humor, sitcom-esque plots etc. And while thats all good and fun, after almost a decade with the table I wamt to play something different. Literally anything, space opera, horror, drama, a tale of political intrigue. Every time I try a different campaign to cater to any other genre it becomes a wacky rollicking adventure with a bunch of barely comptetent misfits getting into all sorts of trouble. I love my players for it because theyre fun campaigns but I want to atleast try to tell a different story, just once.

But those aren't really examples of metagaming
They're not really roleplaying, but theres nothing meta about "I (attempt) to persuade the merchant" or "I make the druid happy" (whatever the fuck that means)

I have a guy that has turned into a total mope. He got turned down on a few ideas by other players, not by me, and has turned into a total sad sack that seems to take everything at the worst. We don't want him to quit, but he seems to be spiraling up towards it for such minor and petty reasons I'm simply blankly staring at his messages wondering what the fuck. We're at the start of a fresh campaign now and he refuses to make a character and I can't handle this shit.

No they're not 'Meta-gaming'. It's worse. It's some chuckle-fuck who can't tell the difference between playing an "RPG-esque" video game "I hit option #1 - convince NPC to be happy." and a real 'Role Playing Game' that involves expending actual effort to interact with the setting and other players. So called 'players' like this that are either incapable of learning how to RP or are utterly unwilling to learn to do so should be jettisoned with great haste from the game.

I am so, so tired of stoner players, who cannot create anything close to a narrative for their character.

I am so, so tired of socially inept GMs, that cannot grasp that I might want to have my character do something too.

I am so, so tired of local GMs refusing to use dice, or character sheets whatsoever.

>How do a replace someone 4 sessions into a campaign.
"Hey [steve], youre not in the game anymore.
I cant deal with your bullshit. We've been bending over backwards to accommodate you, and youre throwing it in our faces. Sorry we couldnt spoon feed the game to you.
Catch you on the flipside
*backflips away*

>and then you play the game without that chucklefuck

TPK them, then when they complain, tell them they're fucking idiots for not ditching the blue rock.

TPK

TPK

TPK

TPK

Make the blue rock fall out of the pack in combat as the bag is cut open or something.

Make the consequences directly related to what they choose to do. They murderhobo an innocent, it later comes back to haunt them. Maybe the NPC was related to someone powerful who is obviously good-aligned like a powerful cleric.

Also with groups like this, if they don't really take to your vivid descriptions, make the terrain more interesting for combat. See how they respond. Maybe strong wind gusts on precarious cliffs, while harpies divebomb them.

If they enjoy that type of play better, just change your ratio up a bit. Some groups like 50/50 rp/combat, some like 25/75.

This guy gets it. The challenge to DMing isn't truly memorizing rules or managing games, it's making a scenario where all of your players can have fun.

Also, don't always reward them. Sometimes they need a good whipping or curse to make the good times that much more awesome.

Isn't that fine for 40k? Music guy is going to learn lore slowly. Tell him about noise marines. Combat guy is playing literally the best setting for wanton violence.

That's rubbish though, I was one of the guys who thought it was horseshit(which it was btw). Just because we are anonymous doesn't mean you can pretend everyone who disagrees with you is "one dude".

You would insult a mans wife to her face, because you found censoring yourself for the benefit of a toddler /too demanding/, then refuse to apologize when called out on your audacity?

You sir, are a cur

I've posted it a few times before, but time for me to vent yet again about my most hated player.

>Creates special zany characters and gets upset when I veto them. This especially comes into play when he comes up with a new character and tries to kill his old one so he can play his new one
>Goes on "zany" adventures that just end up taking up a lot of time
>Gets upset when he perceives that the homebrew concessions I let him have aren't powerful enough when the alternative is to not have them at all
>Whenever he speaks in his character's voice, no matter which character, all he starts doing is some weird slow whisper that's really hard to understand
>Makes terrible decisions all the time and justifies it as "it's what my character would do" even when it clearly is not
>He interrupts. All the time. When I'm trying to answer somebody's question, he jumps up with his own question and demands it answered immediately. When I'm trying to describe a room he'll interrupt with another question about the room that he would have gotten the answer to if he waited another 5 seconds (this isn't a case of him trying to expand on a detail, this is him asking completely unrelated things about the room, like asking if he can find a trapdoor while I'm still detailing the contents of the room). He interrupts with his own actions while I'm still narrating someone else's actions. A particularly egregious example is when I was narrating a touching scene where the party druid was helping the survivors of a destroyed fishing town make rafts so they can do their viking funeral and midway he just yells out "OH I BLESS THE BODIES."

>He adjudicates other people's actions when that's meant to be my job and ends up just creating confusion. Like he tells the rogue she has sneak attack when she actually doesn't, just tells people they have advantage on ability checks because he's helping them when he actually can't etc. Sometimes he'll "remind" people of abilities they don't actually have like telling the Tiefling she's immune to fear effects.
>He min maxes so hard that he actually min maxes other peoples turns for them. He tells people what actions to take so that he can combo off them later.
>He never pays attention when it's anything not concerning him. Even though he's probably the one who gets the most solo attention due to all his "zany" bullshit adventures, he never pays attention when its anyone else who is getting focused on. Not only does he not pay attention, he brings out his phone and starts looking up literal memes and starts showing it to the other players and distracting them. Sometimes he does this at critical plot points or in very emotional moments in the story
>Even though the party is pretty large (8 players) and he causes half my distractions, he gets visibly angry when I forget something he says and ask him to repeat himself. Like he'll act incredibly indignant as if he can't believe that anyone could space out for a second and forget what he said his attack roll was
>Despite not actually reading the rules, he tries to rules lawyer really hard in order to convince me to let him do certain things that he obviously should not be able to do
>Not only that but he refers to random online homebrews as his sources such as telling me how much damage a butterfly sword should do
>Accuses me of railroading at every opportunity despite very clear evidence to the contrary

>If even one character goes down during a fight he protests very loudly that I'm just trying to cause a TPK for my own amusement
>Thinks that my job as DM is to essentially just let him do anything he wants and that he should be able to roll for anything and theoretically succeed at anything if he rolls high enough
>Whenever a player is missing for a session I just make their character go into a form of stasis for the session. He interprets this to mean he can take their equipment and use it as he sees fit, up to and including single use items
>He hoards all the loot and insists he deserves it more.
> As part of the above, he tricked the book loving wizard player into giving up the Charisma stat boosting tome for a useless flavor book. He knew to do this because he had read the DM guide and knew that the Charisma book was actually magical but didn’t let the Wizard player know.
he's been arguing with the party book loving wizard for the past two sessions about why he deserves to read the charisma raising book more than the wizard does
>He metagames all the time. As soon as I say a monsters name he looks it up in the monster manual to prepare for it. This creates bigger problems when I homebrew and upgrade certain monsters to suit the party level and he throws a hissy fit when a certain monster shouldn't be able to do that much damage or has higher AC than the manual says it should

>He seems to think that the game is me vs my players. To that end it takes forever to get anything done because he always assumes I’m about to kill one of the players or an NPC ally. For example in the latest session, it took 20 minutes for me to get an NPC to just walk outside his house because That Guy kept insisting (for no good in game reason) that the NPC would die as soon as they left the safety of their house.
>Despite the fact that we're in a homebrew setting, he insists on using knowledge of race relations from the Forgotten Realms as the basis for his in game knowledge despite my repeated reminders that they've been changed for the setting
>Never talks to people. He just starts attacking them if they show the slightest hint of being suspicious, even though due to the nature of the campaign and the actions of the party, everyone they talk to is at least a little suspicious
>He plays his own music when he does something he thinks is funny or cool
>Tries to tell me what I should put in my NPC's backstories (most of the time it's some stupid pop culture reference) then gets defensive when I say no
>Flipped the fuck out when I forgot his character token for one session (a generic Drow picture) and used a different token (a different generic Drow picture)
>Unapologetically and very loudly declared that one of my NPCs were a ripoff of some anime character
>Does wild mass guessing of plot twists coming up in the campaign then brags loudly when he’s eventually right (Actually had the fucking gall to suggest that one of my plot twists was inspired by one of his guesses)
>After one of his characters get resurrected through a fucked up magical surgery that I explicitly describe as leaving him with horrific disfiguring scars, he comes in the next day with art of his character “post resurrection.” In the art he’s even better looking for some reason.

/m/ is not music, /m/ is mecha.

That works with strangers. It doesn't work when your players are your personal friends. And the significant others of your personal friends. As important as gaming is to me, I'm not willing to eviscerate my entire social circle just to improve it, and there's not much point booting your worst player when they will take your best player with them. Real life is more complicated than random associations.

The words of a man who has not met truly bad roleplayers.

Better than having the one guy who needs the spotlight and roleplays non stop.
Have one guy who once spent three minutes describing his turn in combat. Describing it, not deciding what he was going to do or anything. Just narration.
Then he monologues, basically RPing with himself to the point two other players took a piss break.
Gets pissy at me when the BBEG decides that he doesn't need to sit and listen to a monologue just because 'Talking is a free action' and either stabs him or teleports out
Gets pissy when other players are in the spotlight
Pesters me non stop through the week about random shit his character is doing/shit he wants in game
Shits on me for my storytelling whenever he isn't the main character
Always trying to hijack my NPCs for his own stories, several of which are basically ERP
And still won't take a fucking turn being the DM

Fuck this guy, if it wasn't for the fact he's a good roleplayer when he reigns it in (Or I trick him into thinking he's the main character) I would've kicked him long ago.

he guy literally said she insulted him first he said she did a "sick burn". Secondly he didn't "insult her" nor did he say it to her face, he said he didn't like the way he was treated, and she happened to be in the chat.
>toddler
He said kid, he never said anything about their age
>and then refused to apologize
Right, because being told to apologize and being talked down to as if he was their child isn't an insult in and of itself, right?

>You sir, are a cur
Oh, I see you are shitposting. Yep tips fedora and all that rubbish. Here's your (you)

>he never said anything about their age
I thought he said they were about 3.

Not to my knowledge, you probably just assumed. I mean you can go look for the post if you want but I doubt you'll find it.

okay but why do you play with him

I know that feel user
It's really hard to find people interested in RPGs in shitty third world countries, and the ones I've convinced to play with me seem to like it, but are pretty bad roleplayers and are so far only comfortable with light-hearted low-investment & simple rules-lite games, which, like yours, just devolves into wacky fun times, which is fine and all, but damn it I find myself wanting to play something a bit more serious and thought out most of the time, rather than another episode of a Saturday morning cartoon
But hey, at least it's still fun, and maybe I'm just selfish

Nice. Some of these will be petty, sorry for that.

Text games mostly.
>Player who only speaks in dialogue, never narration, and speaks rarely.
>Player who builds a character with limited motivations/interests and is basically saying it's up to me to give his character a reason to move on
>Group of players who two minutes into the campaign utterly refuse to go through the 'plot goes this way' tunnel then bitch at me after I concede to improving something else because I took away their gear
>Player who made his character a conglomeration of transparent references that were nevertheless opaque enough for them to only occur to me weeks later, painfully
>Player who got pissy about small contradictions and retcons in the first game in a brand-new homebrew setting and left
>All the recruits to my games who join the chat, express deep interest and begin brainstorming characters, then vanish without a word
>Usual menagerie of vanishing players

>Live in germany
>'GM' the dark eye
>New to the setting so I don't know the whole metaplot
>Have this guy in the group who already plays that system for 20 years.
>Bitches at me whenever I don't get a detail completely right
>You don't know who the second son of the kings daughters friend is?
>Sorry but you got the socioeconomic status of the "randomvillage" completely wrong.
>No the townsguard emblem is cyan and not blue.
>Have you done any prep at all? This is a terrible campaign.

Are you me?

I also think that a guy has every right to kick out a guy from his propriety if said guy doesn't follow the very simple rules that have been put on the table in the beginning

"the dark eye" there is your problem m8. Its an overcomplicated mess of a system that lends itself to massive power gaming to be halfway decent at basic tasks. It infamously has a whole fluff book about agriculture and trade, including description of different currencies and crops.
These 20 yrs of experience guys always tend to be a pain in the butt for new players and new gms. And often enough decades of experience don't help lacking talent.
My advice would be trying out other systems. Something where you are on the same page as the players. Or as i've done with some settings declare it "based" on the original setting. Basically the same setting but if you cant be bothered to look up the whole family tree of a small time Baron in bumfucknowhere just make something up and say its this way in your setting because you say so as gm when the gognard comes complaining.

The dark eye is kinda the german counterpart to pathfinder /dnd. People never move on to find something new.

>in the beginning
It was sort of implied he stated those rules after they started, which is a dick move since you've already by that point cleared your schedule and driven who know how far out of your way to get there.

>He has the right to kick him out
I don't disagree with that, I do disagree with the idea that he wasn't being a dick. Because he was.

Heaven forbid, those kind of guys exist?

>He then starts saying he can't roleplay his cleric because he's not religious in real life and can't play dumb.
I can't stand people like that.
You're playing in a world of MAGIC. How does a god in such a setting make you disillusioned?

>and he's using brexit/trump as an excuse to be a cunt to everyone
Elaborate

>He said kid, he never said anything about their age
He quite clearly mentioned the kid was 3 years old

>Right, because being told to apologize and being talked down to as if he was their child isn't an insult in and of itself, right?
Mate, I'm not sure in what kind of bubble you're living, but telling a guy to stop swearing all the fucking time near their kid isn't "talking down to", nor is it treating them like a child.
They had a legitimate reason to tell him to can it.

>It was sort of implied he stated those rules after they started
You know, most people consider not swearing when children are present basic fucking etiquette.

And hey, so what if it wasn't stated at the beginning? They had to warn him multiple times. What kind of logic are you using?
>pffff screw your request of not swearing near your child, you didn't say so when I got here so now I'll deliberately ignore it

Throwing the guy out is NOT a dick move.
You know what is? Being a guest in someone's house, ignoring basic requests of not acting like a cunt, and insulting his wife.

>He clearly mentioned it
Do you have a single fact to back that up? Screencap and/or link to the post please.

>Telling him not to swear
Is not what I was talking about, I was pointing out the whole "You need to apologize to my wife before you leave this group for saying you didn't like getting chewed out over swearing." Was completely asinine, as was their entire group falling apart simply because he failed to apologize and that made them all so offended they couldn't stick together.

>Most people consider it basic etiquette
I don't, sue me for your pain and suffering.

>And so what if it wasn't stated at the beginning
Right, so what if you spring an arbitrary rule trying to limit subconscious behavior on someone after they found the time for a game, and then drove all the way over to play. I mean it's not like that's clearly just as, or even more inconsiderate of others than occasionally uttering a curse where some child might maybe somehow hear it.

>Throwing the guy out is NOT a dick move.
Jesus H. Christ, are you retarded? Do you even have a clue what you are taking about. Did you read the story, or even the post you are replying to? Not only was he not kicked out you pissant, I didn't even write that kicking him out was a dick move. And while we are on the subject of you playing fast and loose with the facts, he never actually insulted the wife.

Oh, wait I see, you are shitposting . My mistake, I thought you were serious. You know you are actually pretty good at this, I like the bit where you just make shit up and then argue it as if it were fact. Very good form.

I like to consider myself a powergamer for the greater good.

Usually I play bards, and in that, be the party buffer(with insane bonuses to inspire courage), but the one time I went full-hog, I had a nuke button of a character. Our group was one that shoddily held itself together by the vague notion of "party mentality."

It was quickly breaking at the seems, so I threatened the party/offending player with killing their characters whenever they went out of their way to hoard items that were up to the party to decide.

Am I an asshole?

I genuinely believe that every party needs a benevolent god-like broken character to reign in the group should one of the players go off the rails with their tomfoolery.

Sorry for breaking the topic of "gms bitch about shit their players do."

>swearing
>"subconscious behavior"

Do you have Tourette's or something? Because for most people deciding what words do and do not come out of your mouth are absolutely under your conscious control.

Right, so when you bang your head or stub your toe, the fist thing you think is "hmm, I wonder if this is an appropriate situation to use a curse word in, hmm perhaps but let me further consider my words before I speak" or do you likely utter a quick curse?

If this guy was injuring himself at the game that regularly, that's a far bigger issue than him swearing.

I was giving an example, if something unexpected and bad happens (roll a crit miss, get stabbed and die, go to negative health) often I will say something in reaction not thinking. Most times that's a curse too. It's not something I give much thought too because it's not really important to most people including myself and it's an example of what I meant when I said that often cursing can often be part of an unconscious or at least an unintentional process.

Eternal GM here.

My current players get themselves killed all the time.
They bitch because I don't give them what they want. When I do give them what they want, they literally kill each other with it.
They never work together, and abandon each other to die all the time. Then they bitch at me.
They don't care about my NPC's, ok, I understand that; I have a whiny sounding voice, I can't help it.

But they complain about the rules I want to implement. Like Gritty Realism, just to make things more challenging and interesting.

AND THEY BITCH AND WHINE
BUT THEN I SAY "DO YOU WANT TO BE THE GM? CAN I FINALLY GET TO BE A PLAYER? NO? YOU ALL STOPPED TALKING ALL OF A SUDDEN?"
THEY SHUT RIGHT THE FUCK UP
I NEVER GET TO BE A PLAYER GOD DAMN IT FUCK
WHENEVER I JOIN A GAME THE GM QUITS AFTER A FEW WEEKS

I'VE RUN YEAR-LONG GAMES
IF I CAN DO IT, WHY CAN'T THEY?

IT'S Not fair, man.

>These 20 yrs of experience guys always tend to be a pain in the butt for new players and new gms. And often enough decades of experience don't help lacking talent.

I routinely find with these ass-hats, that it isn't really 20 years of experience, but rather 1 year of (mediocre) experience repeated 20 times.