Pathfinder General /pfg/

What are some optimal class builds and race options for Shadowdancer? Kind of curious what others thing since it seems to key off Dex innately for stealth and chairsma for DC's of it's spell-like abilities.

I can't save anyone without the precious Feedback that I use to sustain myself in place of food, water, and love.

>Need Dex for Skills.
>Need Cha for DC's, and probably some Skills.
>Class feature has no damage of its own aside from Summoning Minions
>Gain Rogue Talents.

In terms of class features, you're essentially going into a Fighter type character; not in that you're combative, but in that you get a few static bonuses and options per level rather than anything scaling off of your previous levels, so going in as a caster type is kind of moot because you'll never get that stuff to improve except off very specific feats that you can't spare because you're spending them to make the PrC itself viable.

My vote would go to Bard. It gets the skills and Cha you need naturally, and you won't be hurt too bad with the feat taxes you need for the PrC. You can even get it out of the way without needing to be Human for the bonus feat.

You do have Some spells, but they're basically an extra tool kit; Grease, Vanish, Mount, Comprehend Languages; things that don't need to scale to continue being useful.

Bardic Music won't get better with Shadowcaster, but it can be item and feat-boosted, especially with 3rd party and 3.P crossovers. You use that to buff your minions as well as your party in a combat scenario.

Rogue talents are pretty nice and you can either angle for utilities and function as a breaking-and-entering specialist to get doors open for the party or information and objectives while they keep dangers and obstacles busy. You could also go for the social contact talents for rumormongering, info-gathering and equipment bartering in difficult situations. Either works nicely.

At level 15 if you go the full PrC, you can go back to Bard and it wouldn't be a Terrible choice, or consider going into Spymaster next to complete the last 5 before20th.

>Kingmaker
Yeah it's gonna fall apart, it's impossible to DM that mess unless you're a professional fucking DM. Sorry to hear about your vamp spawn.

It's alright. Ended up playing it with another group, made it most of the way, just on hiatus with the final encounter or three ahead on that set. lvl 17 party with a ranger/arcane archer, gunadin, and 2x bardbuff combo.

My blind oracle is cute! She heals people and doesn't cry when bullied!

My current DM is letting me go ham with the steal pattern ability of the Cryptic Class.

I am a Blue and burned my level one feat so I have two extra powers, Psychic Tracking and Untouchable Aura. I'm also using the linked talent alternative rule. This is the first psionic character I've played in ages who dosent immediately loose all his PP. I am finally the gun ninja.

Still, i got the best bits of Bard, Rogue, Ranger, Warlock and Spelltheif. I am carrying this 8 person evil campagin. tier 1 eat my ass.

I played a charisma and int based alchemist who tried to sell people fruit juice instead of real potions.

Puhlease. I already played mine. She was 2' 10", had red scales, and toted hips so bangin' they shoulda warranted a Slam attack.

Of course she doesn't cry, she doesn't have eyes to cry with.

So I have an question that treads a bit on the line of RP and mechanics.

So I want to play a character that's perpetually exhausted. Not that they don't get actual sleep, just that they always feel drained and occasionally yawns and whatnot. Somewhat because I'm tired of playing more happy go lucky and energetic characters.
Also because I've lived this kind of exhaustion for over a decade thanks to depression and hormonal instability so I think I'd be able to more accurately portray a character that's so mentally exhausted they wonder why they bother getting out of bed every day.

My biggest issue is, of the two DM's I play with neither of them can decide if it should be allowed as just fluff or if it should interfere with stuff that needs rest to function (spells, certain diseases can be rested off, and so on). If we leaned towards RP I could effectively play any character I wanted, if it hinders mechanics that starts to limit some of my options.

What do you guys think? Would appreciate some input.

Have you considered playing an Oracle? There are several curses that might suit you.

Any class with low reflexes

I've thoroughly debated it, since Divine casters technically don't need rest to get their spells back just a morning prayer. Also I had fun when I made a dragon mystery battle oracle with a single level dip in Scaled Fist UC monk to get Cha to AC and unarmed stuff. (She beat the shit out of things, turned into a dragon, also while slinging spells, was great)
Though I'd likely play a different kind of Oracle if that were the case.

You, user, are funny. I like you.

Well there's the Wan 3pp curse. You're perpetually fatigued, but immune to exhaustion.

Then you also get the Inflict spells, Ray of Exhaustion, and Waves of Exhaustion.

Yeah, I also like the idea of the Lunar, Bones, or Metal mysteries paired with that.

How do I Blastoise, /pfg/?

>What kind of sexy character do you want to play?

Sexy cult leader (Warlord / Oracle / Battle Templar) of Desna, so that I can encourage women to leave their homes and travel.

Is it true Pathfinder is utter drivel and shit dressed up prettily?

Mostly yes, but we like it. It's our kind of shit. There are few things in the universe happier than a pig in shit, and we are very happy shitpigs.

Grippli Kineticist with improved natural armor.

...

Anyone tried playing Occultist with Necromantic Servant yet? Are they viable?

I don't want to slow down combat, so 1-2 temporary Bloody Skeleton with 3/4 BAB and bonus to damage might be a good way to go.

Maybe add in Charnel Soldiers feat to improve their attack?

reminder that tamamo a shit

yes but we like it anyways.

Two questions /pfg/. What are some cool monsters other than Dragons two level 20 adventurers can fight?

Also, what pairs well for an end-boss alongside either a Warder or Warlord.

How is Pathfinder Society broken and how do you make it a thing that you could actually use in your game?

PFS is two things
A meta organization of PF players, with specific rules and modules

An in game organization on Golarion that runs around hunting things.

The second, fuck the metacrap

When people complain about PFS, they're usually complaining about the organized play. Not the in game organization.

They're just fucking treasure hunters that put shit in museums after robbing it from locales and circle jerk about it. That's it. They aren't vert compelling because Golarion is very compelling.

Anyone got Blood of the Beast?

>They aren't vert compelling because Golarion is very compelling.
I meant because Golarion ISN'T very compelling.

damn i wanna sex that up.

>Trying to build pic related
>Gestalt Brawler/?
>Using a morning star and spiked gauntlet
>Remember that brawlers can't use their unarmed damage or feats or anything really with spiked gauntlets
What the fuck am I supposed to do, I don't want to be dealing shitty damage but I don't want to get rid of it

Why be a brawler if you don't want if you don't want to fist shit?

How can i get a dragon mount as a wizard? or at least a pet dragon.

Are there any 1pp arcane gishes that are not the magus?
I am looking for one, and it seems that the magus is.... ok, but far too devoted to swordplay and magic exclusively to support it, with little in the way of usable spells while still maintaining it's swordplay.

dragons are not something you keep as a pet, they are incredibly dangerous and intelligent creatures.

Try the Occultist

DESU you want to be playing with divine magic

As a wizard? Not really possible. There's a few archetypes that give you drakes, which are basically the world's shittiest dragons (that are dragon typed but otherwise suck arse).

Well you're wrong, because the Magus is a great GISH, you can do swordplay and spellcasting AT THE SAME TIME.

but you can also build your own GISH via multiclassing and taking the Eldritch Knight prc.

There's also a archetype for bard, the Arrowsong Minstrel which can do it pretty good too.

>you can do swordplay and spellcasting AT THE SAME TIME
That's what I meant about the spellcasting being mostly about supporting the swordplay.
>Eldritch Knight
I heard it was pretty shit, and that PF generally punishes multiclassing/prc'ing.
>the Arrowsong Minstrel
Gonna check that out.

I mean, i guess the real question is what do you mean by 'gish', because that would make it was easier to suggest something to you

Do you want a caster that CAN fight? Or one whose casting and swordfighting are interrelated? Or who buffs himself before going to town

EK is pretty terrible as far as gishing goes. He can't really take advantage of spells and attacks at the same time without quickening his spells, and doesn't get any real features to mesh the two either, aside from the capstone.

Maybe if you go with that one arcanist archetype? It at least gets spellstrike.

i'm just trying to understand what this guy means by 'gish', and even that one arcanist archetype usually PRCs into Eldritch Knight for the BAB

This.

Bending the theme of a build is one thing (turning your Slayer into an expert woodsman and ranger-type, for example, or writing off your Barbarian as a civilized shock trooper) but actively ignoring the point of the class is another entirely.

More a caster who can mix it up in close quarters.
>It at least gets spellstrike.
The whole spellstrike thing is what I don't want, actually.
I want competency in melee, with strength in spells.

Refluff a summoner.

>not liking spellstrike
>but wanting to gish

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Bloodrager?

he'll probably bitch about that not being able to use powerful spells

Yeah well neither are wild animals or magical beasts.

Spellstrike != Gish, user.

Why does /pfg/ always wank to OD/ZS warders? Aren't warlords still waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better at being high damage tanks with great saves and good social skills?

Wisdom is the best stat.

in pathfinder it pretty much fucking is. Otherwise you will have a gimped and weakened build. Like its either take spellstrike or do an EK build, and even EK builds benefit from access to spellstrike because ITS EXTRA ATTACKS.

Right, that's what I meant.

>I want competency in melee, with strength in spells.

Then you want a wizard holding a sword... Anyway, yeah, EK fits with that then.

There's a few magnitudes of difference between an ermine and a dragon.

>Why does /pfg/ always wank to OD/ZS warders?

desu I just like playing the wise, hardy swordsman, and OD/ZS lets me do that really well.

Just gotta figure out how to explain my character being an Ordained Defender without religious training, tho.

Answers my question, then.
>no, not really, only kinda sorta

>ghost syrup's deflection bonus
>Leadership

Both are Cha-based.

I don't know, nigga, take a level of fighter, take some levels in wizard, go EK.

Nobody cares about ghost syrup and most people don't take Leadership because it's a pain in the ass for DMs.

Actually no, scratch that; Leadership is a null point because most fighters who take it will have 10 Charisma anyway, and an OD Warder will probably have 10 Charisma too.

>Just gotta figure out how to explain my character being an Ordained Defender without religious training, tho.
Refluff your Inquisition/Domain as being something else. That's what I'm re-fluffing my characters Restoration Ability(it's him realigning his chakras) and Conversion(he's learned to be a manipulative little bastard despite lacking good looks/immediate presence) that he got from Incanter Specialization.

I mean you don't even have a "must follow deity" clause so your shit can be re fluffed as anything you can justify.

Nah, OD/ZS warders drop Charisma to 7 and take a social skill inquisition.

>Nah, OD/ZS warders drop Charisma to 7 and take a social skill inquisition.

The stats start at 10, and they're gonna stay at 10 unless I got some fluff reason to lower them.

>incanter 1 level dip
You're fucking scum, you know that?

People like you ruin Spheres' good name.

>can cause destruction on a wide scale
>can bend reality to suit their whim
>can't get a dragon bud

The authors themselves have stated that was the intent of the Incanter.

[citation needed]

I mean they can just dominate monster or diplomance a Dragon buddy.

But not as a default class/archetype ability.

Because dragons are also

>can cause destruction on a wide scale
>can bend reality to suit their whim

Its the same reason instructor wizard shit gets banned. You don't get to play two wizards.

>I mean you don't even have a "must follow deity" clause so your shit can be re fluffed as anything you can justify.

True enough, I guess the only thing holding me back now is knowing my character being ZS/OD with Conversion is absurdly powerful and it might give the DM a bad time - not that I'm saying I'd exploit it, but that simply doing this will raise the floor just a lil bit more.

I've got months to figure this out anywho.

oh wow you found out why everybody wanks od/zs warder

GAIN EXTRA POWER AND LOSE LITERALLY NOTHING

great fucking writing DSP

Spheres got enough bad name by itself
The book could be called "Instead of vancian magic, how about you just let me instakill things at will"

Again, aren't warlords still stronger and tankier?

>People like you ruin Spheres' good name.
Spheres is not a good system. You either end up too strong at low levels, and fall off into uselessness at high ones or just stay busted all throughout. It's great that you have tons of customization and control over what ability fluff you want though.

Also how is a 1 level incanter dip any worse than Dipping Fighter for Feats, Alchemist for Mutagen, or Monk of Many Styles to complete a level 9 feat chain in 3 levels?

>Warlords
>Tanky
>Compared to the class with Heavy Armor and Aegis

Spheres doesn't let you instakill things at will unless you wank Destruction in ways no GM would ever allow.

You're basically turning yourself into a shitty pure damage martial.

>The book could be called "Instead of vancian magic, how about you just let me instakill things at will"
So you mean what literally every class worth a fucking shit in the game can do already?

Incanter gets you a LOT more for 1 level.

no.

Heavy armor and aegis are totally fucking irrelevant.

AC is basically fucking worthless as a defense.

That's why warlords go Strength/Power Attack, wear a chain shirt, and go to town.

I mean martials can instakill things anyway?

Why is a destruction caster doing it bad, especially when their sacrificing versatility for it anyway.

i mean you're wrong but thats ok i forgive you

>AC is basically fucking worthless as a defense.

Most people don't fight casters every encounter, heck that's pretty much a once-every-two-sessions thing for many people.

archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/48382808/#48382987

That's WITHOUT bringing in shit like Blood Havoc/bloodlines/Spell Specialization/custom blast types...

PoW dudes kill one or two enemies at a time, optimized Destruction kills tons of dudes at will.

You know there are a ton of things that aren't casters which bypass AC right?

you realize that doesn't make AC useless.

>tfw I really like the Hawkguard Warder over all its other archetypes

>PoW dudes kill one or two enemies at a time, optimized Destruction kills tons of dudes at will.
Corned Frenzy Strike
Zealot's Cone strikes
Extended Defense with a reach weapon
Reflected Blade Style.

And that's assuming all those enemies don't pass their saves/have DR that isn't magical or have access to evasion.

Ability Focus is a Monster Feat no one would let you take.

DC 23 isn't even that tough at level 5, decent but far from impossible.

It doesn't but nowhere nearly as useful as you seem to make it. AC more relevant early levels than anything else. Once you hit a certain point your AC barely matters unless you're only fighting martials in all your sessions which that I could understand.