Is there any reason why IG won't simply retreat when Orks, Berzerkers or other melee oriented shit attacks them...

Is there any reason why IG won't simply retreat when Orks, Berzerkers or other melee oriented shit attacks them? Just fucking go away and shoot why do they stand in one spot? I can kinda understand zerks since SM are supposed to be fast lore wise but Orks?

What is holding a position?
What is defending?

Orks are fast when they're moving. Their low initiative is supposed to represent their clumsiness.

One thing I wondered was doenst anyone use barbed wire? If you get charged by someone they are gonna get caught up and become easy targets.

Because retreating in the face of an assaulting enemy is one of the hardest maneuvers to pull off, and easily turns into a rout- /especially/ against such an aggressive force as Orks, and doubly so with the poorly-trained, hive-ganger conscripts that make up the majority of the IG.
Therefore, trying to retreat after the enemy charge has already started is nothing more than an excellent way to die with your wounds on your back. Better to die fighting.

Because the IG, despite being defined by heavy ranged firepower, is largely a defensive force. The term "hold the line" exists for a reason. Even since their conception as the Imperial Army, the IG has operated as a long gunline, holding the line against counter-attack so that spearhead forces like the Space Marines, or (more commonly) Stormtroopers (Tempestus or in-regiment) can make decisive strikes. When the IG DOES attack, it will do so by essentially moving its entire front forward like a steel wall bristling full of guns. They're not very mobile. If they do their job right the enemy should be dead before they reach the front in force.

Also if you TRY to retreat, there's a guy in a shiny red hat there to stop you.

Do commissars have any knowledge in tactics and strategy or are they there to scare people?

Both. They usually let actual officers make orders, but they can just as easily step in themselves, especially if they find the officers incompetent.

Artillery shelling down behind your position followed with a shit ton of suppessing fire. The fact that melee units often have bolters and similar small arms fire with them so leaving your cover to run is often gonna get you shot. Badly.

Lastly: Commisars. Your enemy is already standing in the direction you could be retreating.

Conscripts don't count as proper Guardsmen.

Commisars are multitools, outside of the spooky in battle execution stereotype. There cultural glue, diplomats, political officers, Army Lawyers, MP's, in one of the Ghost novels a commisar heads a battlefield counterintelligence department. In krieger regiments they are the voice of reason, and offer battle tactic advice since kriegers think very linearly. They come from Schola Progneiums, which are the schools of the (Imperial) state churning out priests, bureaucrats, storm-troopers, and commisars. Commisars are also educated in the bad juju of chaos and xenos more closely outside of simple propaganda pamphlets, if the normal citizen/soldier has any knowledge of chaos at all.

who says they stand and hold? Different commanders/ different regiments/ different cultures, employ different plans. You cant make sweeping generalization like that. People time and time again fail to remember that the empire is huge. There are few absolute norms and standards. Honor on one planet is cowardice on another. A differing eye color on one planet is double heresy on another.

He means that many guardsmen were gangers before.

Gets used. But if Orks attack they either do so in numbers which make wire less effective, or they send grots ahead to cut it. or commandos sneak ahead and cut a way.

Yes, because close combat specialists just stand around while you retreat.

or they just walk all over it, since Orks are stupid like that.

#notallguasrdsmen

Many guardsmen were whatever their home planet wanted for guardsmen. Conscripts are tough and cheap, but nobles who bought their commission might have better morale, or picking those who distinguish themselves as tough and loyal might be a good policy as well.

kek
but its less about definitive answers when it comes to the lore and more about encapsulating the spirit of the setting.

That's the Tau(tm)'s shtick.

Orks were smart enough to outsmart Tau and know how write. Which is more than can be said about majority of the Imperium.

Yes but hive world scum are by definition the bulk of the imperial population

>IG retreats
>The Orks follow
>IG keeps retreating
>The Orks keep following
>IG eventually die because the Orks shoot them in the back while chasing them down.
Wow, excellent battle maneuver.

Retreat in the middle while the flanks stay firm. Retreat to prepared defensive lines to "hold the bull's nose" and whittle them down by attrition through arty bombardments, minefields, barbed wires, dug in crewed weapons, dug in tanks, bunkers etc. When the enemy is stuck deep enough, the flanks attack inwards, effectively enveloping the enemy from behind. Deep Battle tactics: when you have limitless grunts and artillery.

>Orks not attacking on the widest possible front so everybody can get stuck in as fast as possible.
>Orks being this stupid at basic warfare
>Orks somehow only move forwards in one big mass and never spread out.
>Moving out of one defensive line to another one and the Orks are still the same distance away as when you moved out.
Great battle plan. Do all your plans rely on your opponent doing exactly what you expect them to do?

This is 40K, not Warhammer Fantasy. Also, what type of defensive plan relies on outnumbering the enemy three times over?

If anything the IG can generally rely on being outnumbered with reinforcements being minmal and their enemies breeding faster than they can effectively destroy, or hordes of half-trained rebels with autoguns declaring their freedom from the IoM. All of this means that advancing on an enemy position will get you killed, along with a lot of comrades. So the answer is to sit back, shell, and wait for the enemy to return fire so that way you minimize your own casualties and make enemy freedom of movement heavily restricted. Now whenever the bastards are done hiding in their holes, their only option will be to counter attack or be cut down by incoming shock troops like Karskins, Elysians, or Tempestus Scions.

>Orks
>stupid

Assuming that is the surest way to get rekt by them.

They also speak several languages on average.

Yes just like in medieval times, no one ever got cut down. If the enemy got too close you just ran away...

A big disorganised retreat is a good way to loose an entire army or battle group.

Actually yeah most battlefield casualities in the middle ages happened during a rout.

Did you read my comment, I was being sarcastic.

I said a big disorganised retreat if a good way to loose an army.

>the same mistake twice

Just hang yourself you fucking idiot, be extra careful to make that noose tight, not loose

When it comes to Orks, humanity normally has to bunker up on key defensive positions with a ton of AA just to survive because an Ork landing zone is normally wherever the hell they want it to be. That, or when there is a restricted landing zone there are so many Orks about that retreat would only limit the number of people shooting into the horde, falling back wouldn't extend the lives of the troopers enough to get the extra kills needed to exceed what they would get if they stood their ground and died fighting to hold their trenches, unless there were so many guardsmen as to make a fighting withdrawal like that so cumbersome as to be near impossible.

When it comes to Berserkers one of two things happens: they're either deployed via some means that targets a specific defense in the first place, making retreat impossible such as when deployed via Termites, Dreadclaws, and sorcerous means.
The second is that a Space Marine can run so much faster than an unaugmented human can, before they put on their power armour and attain the blessings of their dark gods. It wouldn't matter if they tried to fight and retreat, they'd die.

So your brilliant plan is to abandon all your heavy weapons and defences, make yourself vulnerable and risk losing control of your forces?

Yes.

Given that the average Ork invasion looks like a map of a nuclear first strike, there's usually nowhere to retreat to.

You've got dozens to hundreds of re-purposed asteroids, ships and god knows what else raining down haphazardly at major population centers, all of which are going to disgorge thousands to tens of thousands of Orks.

Roks were invented during Third War for Armageddon.

>Melee combat

>In modern warfare

>Tau
>good guns

peace treaty?

... you can't be serious.

No.

Come on ! You already signed one with those red guys.

This is not fucking canon.

>delet this in binary code

Commissars, and Naval Commissars are allegedly trained in the relevant area of strategy to better determine if the officer they're assigned to is doing a competent job.

This is the inconsistent world of 40k however, so who knows how many authors are actually aware of this. Likely not as many as you'd think.

Same reason you don't do it in real life. You get shot in the back while you run. Someone rushes your position, better to keep firing to down a few before the melee starts.

Tactics tards nowadays...

Authors can not care about most factions. They have to wank on Marines and Tau.

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