How would you flesh out the Storm Trooper/Scoion lore in 40k after what happened with the scion codex?

Anyone else think Lady of Lake 40k edition with these guys?

Weird wargear, and tacticool shit would go a long ways towards separating them from being space marines with 3s except for BS and bad leadership but who don't need drop pods to deep strike.

Is this your list? Do you have an airborne assault formation? Can you show it to me? Please? I like valkyries?

I dont think in terms of table top sadly im more of a rule of cool kind of guy

Nah. I immediately thought of something else entirely when I saw their regimental icon and the "incredible ability vs. overwhelming odds" bit:
youtube.com/watch?v=hrl4z47I7S0

It's okay - An army of drop troopers in valkyries has been my dream army forever. Some day, user. Some day.

IG bikes sound baller as fuck

Give Rough Riders more/better ranged options and Cadian models - Cadian RRs ride bikes.

This. For lack of a better term, Scions should be the Call of Duty army of 40k.

Honestly all they'd have to do to patch Rough Riders is give them the ability to reload their spears (spending a turn out of assault to do so) or give them generic lances they pull out after the explosive ones are used, S+1/User AP 5/6. Basically, just make them not useless after the initial charge.

There's your answer. Got a unique regiment you want to have some punch? This unit right here is Scions, thematically modelled.

>roll the Respects dice now

or

Each scion regiment are based on real life special forces

They need Balaclavas and then were set

Give them berets

the one thing GW got right with the scion release

Skitarii vanguard are what Scions wish they could be (minus transport issues)

the problem with that is nobody would play anything but Ghurkas

>Scions should be the Cawadoody army of 40K
>posts the Dark Angels Chapter symbol

You say this, user friend, as I begin work on my final Valkyrie for said formation. You will get there.

How do you silence a bolter? Sure, you can silence the shot itself, but bullet still explodes with a lot of noise. (boltguns are more like minirocket launchers rather than automatic riffles with big caliber)

>How do you silence a bolter?
solid core

"silenced" bolter shells aren't explosive

>Remove the grimderp
ew, no

>basically make the Scions "Imperial Guard Death Watch"
This is an incredibly good idea.

Damn, I want nice bases like that...

The problems of existing rocket-shell firearms (like the Gyrojet) are low velocity on muzzle exit (it's said you can actually stop the round without injury by placing your finger over the barrel - they don't pick up enough speed to do any damage until they're a couple of meters out of the barrel), the accompanying problems of variable reliability of damage, and low accuracy.

Bolt weapons can be expected to have overcome the accuracy issue (or to have fired enough rounds in most cases to make it immaterial) due to thousands of years of development (whereas in reality Gyrojet was pretty much it, and they stopped even thinking about those 50 years ago) and the damage issue is overcome (for standard rounds) by the addition of the mass-reactive caps and explosive core (again, Gyrojet was only a rocket-round - not an explosive round).

Stalker bolt shells as depicted replace the propellant with gas cartridges; overlooking the obvious problem with this (the propellant of any bolt shell is still gas, it's just that it comes from burning solid fuel under normal use), we can also see bolt shells have casings in most depictions, and these are clearly ejected from the weapons after firing (in fact the Vulcan mega-bolter is said to reserve the spent casings in a special reservoir to maintain balance). So we might then reasonably assume that in addition to being miniature rocket shells, normal bolt shells also operate in the manner of a conventional bullet (which overcomes the initial velocity problem for all rounds, meaning you don't have to worry about which gun to use close up).

Further to that assumption, in the case of silenced shells, it's possible that the shells use some kind of baffle to reduce their gas-jet noise and that they forego the initial crack of a hammer strike, subsequent ignition of propellant, and of course they contain no explosive. So while rocket bullets are kind of iffy, they're not really wrong fluff-wise.

>GIGN
>Foreign Legion
Hue. Good thing we get to teach a few things to special forced worldwide once in a while, otherwise we'd really be a laughing stock.

FL is far from a laughing stock. Typically the makeup is French-born officers (with notable exceptions) and foreign-born fighters, but a high proportion of these are young recruits desperate to serve in a capacity that will bring them money and the opportunity to earn French citizenship (you don't have to bleed for France, but it helps) after some years, and a smaller proportion of older ex-servicemen from other nations. Lots of Americans, Brits, etc. Not a family man's career - the last group are people who in most cases have already served in front-line combat and in many cases have experience of special forces work, meaning the legion's own para and engineer commando units can call on experience and learn techniques from the world over.

The legion itself is kept small, partly as a response to the changing nature of France's role in global conflicts after WW2, partly as a response to budget pressures (France after all has other military units requiring supply), and not least because it once tried to take over France so that its commanders at that time could overturn Algerian independence. Of course, the legion has always instilled loyalty to the legion and to France - in that order - but it was a curious conflict; 2000 legionnaires dead and their commanders determined to have Algeria for themselves, to run much the same way Rhodesia was run (this being popular with certain types in Europe at the time). In the end, it wasn't France that defeated the legion, but itself - basically a mutiny ended any hope of the coup succeeding.

If there were more of them, you'd hear about them more often; but in any case you really have to ask why a military unit would need publicity, special forces (which are just a small part of the legion) especially.

What? what happened with the scion codex?

According to my cousin who was in the Navy infantry, the FL is actually pretty good, what's with being an infantry army first and foremost. They also seem to be the ones deployed on foreign expeditions the most.

Interestingly enough, the Legion is also quite acceptant and protective of its members, with the Legionnaire's code having a line like "Your fellow Legionnaire is your brother, regardless of his race, religion or belief, and you shall not abandon your wounded, dead or weapons"

I think it is still the only "official" army i.e excluding special forces that can refuse to reveal the identity of one of its soldier, hence the common belief that they're made of criminals. They've done quite a bit of trimming to make sure they don't have any killers or rapists in the ranks, and as you said, plenty of recruits are either looking for a way to settle in France (which I'm completely okay with, that's definitely service enough to be granted citizenship imo) or former soldiers.
Funnily enough, apparently there are a few soldiers that are former french troops pretending to be Belgian, Swiss or from Québec because they did not get their contract in the regular army renewed, budget restrictions forcing slashes.

We Arystan now.

>we can also see bolt shells have casings in most depictions, and these are clearly ejected from the weapons after firing

5e SM codex has a metal that's made from bolter casings fired by Rowboat Girlyman.

As for silenced shells, the Russians invented cartridges that would be silent without a silencer:
forgottenweapons.com/russian-silent-ammunition/

>SBS
I can definitely see that happening.

>Alot of tech heresy
Add mechatendrites into alot?

Move them back under the Departmento Munitorum control. Have them act as a more direct force of Munitorum while Guard itself controlled the regiments. Make them into force multipliers Munitorum sends into battlefields to assist with operations and get shit done with reliability. Make them more like second rate space marines in their operations that Munitorum has more control over. Give them Rhinos and Predators, maybe even Drop Pods to support their rapid strike style. Also heavy weapons for support duty, like they used to have. Each platoon can have a HQ squad made up of 1-3 heavy weapons.

Nothing

And by nothing I mean we got nothing all we got was a fucking name change and pain schemes they could have used this release to finally expand on storm troopers but they blew it

storm troopers are specially trained units,companies...whatever that are attached to IG regiments and have nothing to do with them

grenadiers are veteran shock troops trained within the regiment

What about these guys?

Well, fluff wise they expanded on their training regiments (both by saying they're brainwashed to lose all identity and only be loyal to the Imperium, then proceeds to give various regiments with their own identities) and moved them under the Administratum instead of Munitorum.

But yeah, ruleswise/gear not much changed. But lets face it, the codex was just a Codex: Assassins style "now you can attach stormies to all armies" type of thing. I wouldn't mind more stuff for them, but that'd just take them further away from Guard and I don't want to lose my stormies to a separate codex.

While I agree with all of it, Phosphex weapons are no longer around except for a relic pistol. A Magos felt phosphex was inhumane (even for the Imperium) and destroyed the STC.
He was executed by Phosphex, of course.

I still feel like the imperium had some of the stuff lying around still

Without a doubt. There's countless garrison/armoury worlds out there with stockpiles so deep no one has travelled them for millennia. Even in the Horus Heresy books about Tallarn, there's one scene where some experienced tankers come across mothballed light tanks that they can't even identify.

See also: Vraks. Most the IG and Munitorum staff didn't even know the Minotaur existed until they started lobbing shells at them.

>alphic hydras
Could they be any more subtle about being an alpha legion sleeper cell?

Seeing that the capability to make them was wiped out in M40, sure, but there's also the thing that it's not a pleasant substance (Girlyman liked rad weapons more than phosphex) and what little they have left is probably closely guarded by Admech.

Different scholas produce different types of storm troopers with different ways of working and with different equipment.

Que imperial navy seals, SAS, spetsnaz, JTF2, (insert real world special forces here.)

They could paint themselves blue and green.

...

Agreed here.

They say that the Scions are like a brotherhood, then they should be closer to Space Marines in this regard.

Also if I was responsible for making them, then I'd simply make them into what if Guardsmen were given some really hard training and made into pros who see that sometimes what they do (like blowing up a ship that has some people infected with a horrid disease) is cruel, but necessary, yet they would have their own thoughts on this.

The Alphic Herrings didn't have quite the same ring to it.

That would've been quite nice and add some actual character to them.

Scrap all the grimdark stuff as says, make them just operator as fuck humans who love their job.

Make them more specops, give them loads of options for deep strike, ongoing reserves, voluntary night fighting, special ammo, general fast and hard strike and fade stuff, give them enough listbuilding options that the opponent never knows how they'll be hit.

They're supposed to be ambushers and first strikers, the opponent should know they're coming obviously but shouldn't know how or when, they can already do that because of Deep Strike on everything but they need a little more welly. maybe grab some of the Elysian stuff and possibly something like a Knight but the size of a Dreadnought that can be deployed by grav chute.

in terms of fluff really make it more optimistic, make them way less 'kill your friend and wipe your mind' and way more 'day in the marine corps is like a day on the farm'. They're awesome fighters and they know and love it. Remove the commissar shooting people, make him a commissar-Captain and give him something different and far chummier, maybe deep strike reserve ordering or similar, these guys are brothers and scary ass operators so he shouldn't be drilling 'em for retreating temporarily.

Burn the new lore to the ground and go back to elite, veteran guardsmen.

Also snow mobiles and boats

>that color scheme
Clearly they're an entire regiment of Deadpools.

>Entire Regiment of Deadpools

That would be bad for everyone.

One Deadpool is bad news.

An entire regiment of nutballs that think they are in a fictional setting and who were probably experimented on by the AdMech to give them powerful healing factors are worse than Exterminatus.

Have that be one of MANY methods used by the Scions. Maybe one branch of Scions trains like the Gurkhas. Maybe another is Mossad. Maybe another is the AGP in Scion form.

Wouldn't remove those parts.

Just make them one of the many ways of training certain Scion Regiments have.

the kasrkins dont come from the schola, they are recruited from guardsmen who show promise

maybe we need to include more scions who come from humble beginnings, instead of space marine lite troopers

youtube.com/watch?v=elJwuD7pfmc

>spetnaz IG

oh yes

>THEY KILL THEIR BEST FRIEND AS A TEST
I wouldn't see a problem with this if it was less pass/fail, more 'what direction are you going after graduating?' ... and they were given blank munitions to shoot their friend.

I really like the idea of scions as "TACTI/K/OOL CALL OF DUTY OPERATORS IN SPACE" as opposed to just another group of super soldiers.

What are some special forces units that would be interesting to see a space equivalent of? I'd like to see ice world ski troop stormtroopers unleashing Motti tactics on cultists and renegades. Makes me wonder though, where are submachine guns in the 41st millennium?

>autoguns are tech heresy

since when?

Remember what this could be easily translated to special stub guns

Shit like GIGN or Spetnaz Alfa group Id defintly want to see a naval type of force as in actual water combat shit these guys could be SEALs,Korean UDT, or SBS

That weapon in the middle is apparently a "sawed off" m79 grenade launcher if I recall correctly people say that SEALs use it and call it the pirate gun

Water combat isn't something really fleshed out in the lore.

Space Marine power armor is airtight and the backpacks have small oxygen tanks and zero-G thrusters that logically allow them to operate underwater. Presumably scions would use SCUBA equipment.

Underwater combat rules would need to involve difficulty in moving, non-aquatic vehicles and terminators sinking like rocks, damage for going too deep, and stealth/limited visibility.

Also
>combi lasgun/grenade launcher
gotta rock that noobtube

>non-aquatic vehicles and terminators sinking like rocks
land raiders and terminators are one of the only things in the setting that have canonically been shown fighting underwater

some space wolves raided an underwater tau research base by driving land raiders across the ocean floor and sending terminators to cut open the walls from the outside

>ocean floor

Land Raiders and Terminators can survive the extreme pressure. They still sink though.

and said bikes should be the ones from delta force

youtube.com/watch?v=06Uu4CRKj1o

Addendum/expansion on how various regiments raise their own storm troopers or equivalent. Kasrkin, Elysian, Harakoni, Steel Legion to name a few have their own armored elite infantry units, so expand on them instead of "NOPE, all 4+ save, hellguns wielding vets are from the Schola." It's lazy and dismissive.

>all 4+ save, hellguns wielding vets are from the Schola
Speaking of, bring back Special Operations in the same way that Vets have squad-based buyable options to represent the various Storm Trooper regiments.

ayup, then they promptly drive around on the ocean in them because fuck you, Land's Raider aint got time to stall.

>posting fuze instead of Our Lord and Savior
shame, user

Nice helmet.

Stop the whole PSHH NOTHIN PERSONNEL SCHOLA PROGRAM and make it more like an actual school that trains soldiers from birth. Give them alot of stuff from the elysian book like Venators and Vultures, maybe Stormies with Vox can designate a unit within x inches and all air units get pref enemy or some shit. Some elite choices with more special weapons like hellrifles and whatnot. Give the hotshots an option to go assault 3

>CAG Scions
Heretics dead before Guardsmen notice it.

>DEVGRU Scions
Heretics shot through the wall with use of special ammo and AP1 Lasrifles.

>ALPHA GROUP Scions
Heretics and Guardsmen dead.

>GROM Scions
What Guardsmen?

>GSG-9 Scions
Put so much work into their plans heretics already enacted their ritual a long time ago.

>CIA SAD SOG Scions
Archeotech guided ammo through the roof.

>HJK/FSK Scions
Deep Strike via Gravshutes and systematic termination.

>SAS Scions
Heretics dead, only two grenades spent.

>SASR Scions
As above, but regiment could afford only two grenades.

>HRT Scions
Deemed not so useful.

>SAYERET Scions
Heretics Raided.

>SPETCNAZ Scions
Entire Hive World burned.

>SOG Scions
Heretics blown up to smithereens.

>KOREAN UDT Scions
Somehow infiltrate Heretic fortress with a Shark Assault Boat.

>MARSOC Scions
Had make another specialized sub-regiment.

>SBS Scions
See KOREAN UDT, but with loads of alcohol and enough swearing to make a daemon run away.

>BOPE Scions
Excessive Missile Barrage the fortress doors.

>GREEN BERETS Scions
Train local hivers to take on Heretics.

>ARMY RANGERS Scions
Relegated to guard duty for some stupid reason.

>CHINESE SOF Scions
Guardsmen deemed acceptable sacrifice.

>AMERICAN UDT Scions
Use Hades Breaching Drills and Termites to dig under fortress and then stab Heretics to death.

>GHURKA Scions
Heretic heads and testicles taken as trophies.

>KSK Scions
Assault from all points.

>USAF Scions
984938 bystanders killed and all Heretics vaporized.

>SPECNAZ GRU Scions
1.5 million out of 1000 Heretics dead.

>UNIT 777 Scions
Nearby Schola mistaken for Heretic Fortress. Vortex Grenades kills [[RESTRICTED INFORMATION]] and causes [[RESTRICTED INFORMATION]] in damage.

>VDV Scions
Get lost and somehow accidentally join a separatist movement.

>VYMPEL Scions
Arrives the same time as ALPHA GROUP. No Survivors.

>JTF-2 Scions
Not even the other Scions know about them. Nobody realized they already captured the fortress.

>DANISH JEAGERS Scions
Drive Tauroxes through the fortress.

>NZSAS Scions
Rides giant fluffy bird to battle.

>RAZVEDIK Scions
CHAOS REMOVED. Bystanders diagnosed with PTSD. Inquisition mistakes their work for of that of a Khornate cult.

>NAVY SEALS Scions
Infiltrate Heretic Fortress via sewer system.

>TASK FORCE 88 Scions
Hunter-Killer mode initiated. All Heretics dead.

>MOSSAD Scions
Ritual Sacrifices were in fact well disguised daemonhosts.

>ARYSTAN Scions
No survivors. Emperor pleased.

>GIGN Scions
Gather info and then assault when they start the ritual.

>FOREIGN LEGION Scions
Heretics are mind-wiped and recruited.

>NKSOF Scions
Blame High Lords of Terra and Segmentum Command for the situation happening in the first place.

>JGSDF Scions
Never fought Heretics. Only Xenos.

Agreed.

Also make the whole programs differ from schola to schola.

>Stop the whole PSHH NOTHIN PERSONNEL SCHOLA PROGRAM and make it more like an actual school that trains soldiers from birth.

Then what is it now, because to me that's exactly what it is. It's an orphanage where they take kids and train them to be devote members of society. The actual stormie training comes after they get picked for stormie training in the stormie regiments.

I don't see what the problem is.

>AGP in scion forms
They would need so many diffent speciality with the core concept being minimal work

I dont know if its public knowledge, but there were some SS officers after WW2 who were given the choice to either service in the FL, in Indochina, or go to prison.

So if you are a /r9k/ autist, do you get to shoot no one, or do they allow you to go Columbine?

I can't, I'm sorry. I want to go back to the old, vague lore that treated the Storm Troopers as better trained and educated IG, who were best known for being considered tin soldiers or glory boys. I don't want to work with the grimdark torture-school the Schola Progenum was made out to be.

Back to this? What fluff are you talking about, exactly?

If they served in Indonesia, chances are they died there. And if not there, in Algeria. The Legion has always been one of the first army to be sent in foreign countries, for several reasons.
First, they were and still are often considered cannon fodder compared to French corps, by virtue of being foreign.
Second, being made of foreigners means that they often had people that spoke the language in their own ranks.
Third, traditions. It was created to fight France's wars outside the territory and it basically stayed that way.

I play Elysians as my only 40k army. It's not as much fun as you think. Get ready for very bored opponents as you circle the battlefield taking popshots...or very dead Veterans if you spam DSing dudes or get out of your ride.

But they look cool as fuck. I fucking love the Elysian models.

Have you read the new fluff? It has stuff like mindbreaking and shooting friends, and that's for schola cadets - you see it for future commissars and stormtroopers alike.

checked

Pretty much that, since the general pre-scions fluff did not go into much more detail than that.

Ill be honest

Old school and new fluff for Storm troopers suck balls the ideas in this thread seem way better.

Why use Storm troopers if basic regiments have their own albeit better versions for the regiment

>mindbreaking

How do you think in the old fluff the kids were taught to love the Emperor and become zealous devotees to the Imperial cause?

>shooting friends

That's merely one way weed out those who might have talent in becoming a commissar. Not the only one.

I don't mind the extra stuff, it's not like it really breaks the myth that Schola Progenium is not a nice place and produces loyal servants to the Imperium.

It's just that before it was vague enough that they could be good, but harsh, institutions, or you could've gone with the mindbreaking and shooting friends and all the other stuff to turn them into Krieger-lites. But now there's only the latter option, and somehow it feels stripped of any school-like trappings and is more like a human factory, which is great until maybe you decide that you want your Commissars or Stormtroopers or Sisters of Battle to actually act human.

but the low still feels vague and now they are just grimderp

It feels more specific to me, and I don't like the grimderp.

I'm not sure where the argument is supposed to go from here.