What is Veeky Forums's opinion on a plot device like this?

youtube.com/watch?v=EYmvPk5i384

Not that strange, compare Eli to Peyton.
It's just that in this species that difference is least how many yards you can throw with extreme accuracy and more how big a planet you can destroy with a blast from your fingertips.

Cooler did a weekend of Cross Fit and called it a day
Freeza went hardcore for like at least a year of continuous training

He only did 4 months.

delet

That movie sucked.

Will we ever see a good guy Icer?

I'm not exactly upset with seeing Frieza return, but that entire plot device is bullshit. Not only that, it invalidates Frieza as a character in the Saiyan Saga. Frieza was a feared space tyrant who had an iron grip on his empire and loads of races he subjugated serving under him. He also destroyed planet Vegeta despite the saiyans being very loyal stormtroopers to his cause. Why? Because he had heard the legend of the Super Saiyan and feared it. We see why in the Namek saga: Goku was weaker than Frieza, but upon becoming a Super Saiyan he was able to surpass Frieza (even if only barely). Perhaps that's also why Frieza was on Namek in the first place: he feared something else like the Super Saiyan popping up so much that he wanted immortality.

Now that this "I've never trained a day in my life" plotline pops up, everything about Frieza's justification is bullshit. He feared the Saiyans, he feared his potential enemies enough to desire immortality, but he could've solved all problems he ever had by simply doing squats for four months? It's not like the Frieza empire lacked training facilities.

In-continuity it makes no sense. But I understand Toriyama's reasoning: everyone loves Frieza so let's bring him back. After all, we wouldn't get a villain even half as entertaining until ZAMASU

maybe Icers just cant git gud.
They get the power they are born with and no more or less.

You're confusing your headcanon for what's actually canon. Freeza's motivations for immortality were never fear, it was he just wanted to rule his empire forever.

I don't think training ever occurred to him. His entire army seemed to view the concept as foreign and instead focused in finding "mutants" with abnormally high base power levels.

You can see why though, they were able to defeat enemies like Nail and the other Namekian warriors who had spent an entire lifetime training like they were nothing. Not all species get the crazy gains like Saiyans do. And even most Saiyans lacked the dedication to do the crazy training that have made Goku and Vegeta so strong.

There's no denying that he's paranoid and constantly jumps at shadows despite being phenomenally powerful

>constantly jumps at shadows
He did it literally once, and that one time has pretty questionable motivations as the Bardok movie isn't canon.

his desire to kill the Saiyans was fear though. Also, after he got pretty well killed, he apparently went back to face Goku without training first, even though he was aware of the fact he'd lose.

It makes no sense.

>His entire army seemed to view the concept as foreign and instead focused in finding "mutants" with abnormally high base power levels.

Sayans train and are shown to understand the concept. They must have been familiar with the concept in the army that included them.

To be fair, when he went back to face Goku he pretty much just planned to blow up the planet right from the get go and watch the monkey suffocate.

Goku and Vegeta (and their kids) were exceptional because they became aware of the spiritual side of ki.

Freezypop's men knew what training is, ignore dub edits, they do mention the idea of power levels having a max potential limit. Cui says there's no way Vegeta's power level could be higher than what it's max measured potential is. But they all thought ki worked like a muscle, for them it was purely physical.

Goku and the gang are familiar with the metaphysical side of ki, how you can push beyond your limits and your only ceiling is the one you put on yourself. That's why he and Vegeta destroyed the Freezypop crew's entire understanding of ki. They didn't know ki had a metaphysical side.

>after he got pretty well killed, he apparently went back to face Goku without training first
He was a cyborg. He didn't need training because he was rebuilt better, stronger, faster than he was before.

Also don't forget Goku didn't defeat Freeza. Freeza defeated himself.

Eh he had him at his mercy and could have easily killed him had he wanted too. I consider that a defeat no matter how you look at it. Freeza had lost even before he bisected himself.

>I consider that a defeat no matter how you look at it.
You're neither Akira Toriyama nor Freeza, so it doesn't matter what YOU consider a defeat.

What do I think? it's bullshit, are you telling me that fighting against Gohan (who made him kiss the floor 2 times), Krillin (who cut his tail), Piccolo (who made him kiss the floor), Vegeta (who also made him kiss the floor), Goku (who utterly defeated him even at his strongest) and then Trunks (who utterly defeated him once again) isn't "training" or "extressing your muscless", then this is stupid.

Pic related is waaaaaaay stronger, from 0 to Akatsuki level in taijutsu and ninjutsu in THREE days of READING books and PLAYING shogi. Give him an entire month and he'd be able to destroy Tobi, Madara and Kaguya at the same time.

Can Naruto characters cause planets to explode with little to no effort?

I don't know how crazy Naruto got in terms of power levels by the end of the series, but I'm pretty sure Freeza would still wreck that planet without any problems.

If Batman can punch Darkseid, I'm pretty sure Shikamaru could take on Golden Frieza with enough prep time. Nothing can defeat you if you ride the author's cock into battle.

>If Batman can punch Darkseid, I'm pretty sure Shikamaru could take on Golden Frieza with enough prep time.
Notto disu shitto agen.

>Nothing can defeat you if you ride the author's cock into battle.
Fair enough.

Actually by the end of the manga, yes.

Training your muscles and training your ki/powerlevel are entirely different things in Dragonball. Remember that Hercule was of great physical strength despite having a powerlevel of "swatted into a cliff"

You got it wrong, it wasn't that Batman punched Darkseid, it was that an angry Darkseid (Superman powerlevels and even beyond) punched with all his might Batman, and Batman (a human without powers) survived.

He also outran the flash, beat two full powered kryptonians using only martial arts, knocked Wonderwoman out with one punch, defeated a martial artist who was able to redirect a 10 km meteorite with aikido, etc.

Thankfully, this is all now non-canon.

He's still powering up and fighting and getting beat everytime and powering up once again, if ki is like a muscle then using it at your limit is training, he used it and surpased every state he was therefore he trained, therefore his whole "I nuvur truined!" is bullshit

...all of that is canon actually, user. Previous to NU52 but still canon.

>He also outran the flash
....are you for real? Surviving a punch from Darkseid through the power of plot I understand, but this... no.

I'll never understand comic book continuity.

I know it defeats the entire purpose of his character, but imagine how strong he could be if he bothered understanding and training his ki.

Superman/Batman: The Supergirl from Krypton: Canon
War of the Supermen/New Krypton: Canon
Any of the Batman vs Karatekid: Canon

See However you're right in that it would make more sense if Freeza just said something like "I understand how ki fucking works now" or something instead.

Well but Frieza didn't know about Ki, and he didn't specify training Ki - in fact he said he never trained because there was never any need for it, implying he trained in a way that he knew about, but didn't consider important.

So he basically just trained normal.

>but this... no
Not outran in a straight race, but moved faster than him to throw a smoke bomb and then punch him. Outreflexed him? outreacted him? thought both were ready for the combat.

Its like in D&D, two guys are ready for the combat but one rolls higher Ini and readies an action, then the other at at least mach 8 tries to attack you but you counter the shit out of him and make him bite the dust.

So he's still bullshiting.

Has anyone told you what a pedantic little shit you are? Yes, going all out in the fight could count as training ones abilities but that isn't what he is talking about. He means training in the sense of hitting the gym, controlling his ki, or having practice bouts with other strong dudes.

What happened to percieving events that last less than an ottosecond?
Sometimes I believe you have to be literally superautistic to make sense of Marvel and DC continuity and consistency.

*Attosecond

Man, Flash is the least consistent character ever, he can dodge a sniper rifle at point black without even aware in the first place but gets beaten by the weakest dudes ever in the most retarded ways. Then there's Batman who's the exact opposite, a normal dude who does stuff well above superhuman level.

My headcanon is that Bruce does have actual powers, reality warping ala Franklyn Richards, but he doesn't know it and that's why he does the bullshit he does.

>I don't know how crazy Naruto got in terms of power levels by the end of the series
If you don´t mind spoilers, the plan of the villain included going great lengths just to use a technique on the moon, something you see a DB character doing when Goku was little. It´s retarded to compare the two.

>and that's why he does the bullshit he does.
Like redirecting a plasma beam with a random hand mirror like it were light? yeah, I know that feel

Actually is using the moon as a mirror to put everybody in a dream state of happiness. But they have the power to blow up the moon and even the planet, though only a couple of dudes (main chars and the 2 BBEG), they spam nukes at will with no effort and some explosions are 1/4 the size of the planet and they barely sweat. They probably can do a lot more but I don't think they want to die from suffocation in space.

Nowhere near later DBZ though, but probably in the same level as later Saiyan Saga.

I'd say yeah, Late Plot Naruto is roughly Saiyan Saga in terms of power. Main characters can level mountains with their upper-tier powers, but aren't yet able to bench-press planets or destroy the sun.

Except Shikamaru, cause he is Naruto Batman and thus has no upper limit.

Well, at least one is able to drop meteors on the planet without much effort.

So.... maybe?

As far as meteors go, it was a big one, but it was moving pretty damn slow. Lots of weight, very little impact. And Pain was doing that two seasons beforehand.

Several km long meteors mind you, I think they're comparable to SSJ1, able to reshape continents at their upper limit.

Toneri cut the moon in half pretty casually and Naruto shrugged it off, and he's probably stronger now.

Ah. I stopped watching after the pain arc, as that was when I lost interest in it.

Most of what I know of the shinobi war arc is from the occasional clip I see on the internet.

I think the Naruto series either has a smaller moon, or the writer has no idea of the actual size of the moon. Same foes for DBZ though, really. Both series has the moon get casually destroyed, as if this doesn't automatically destroy all life on earth as well.

To be fair, DB was an action comedy that ran on cartoon physics as much as it did anime action physics, it wasn't until it became Z that it started to take itself too seriously.

Be glad you stopped, honestly you should probably have just not watched Shippuden at all. The shinobi war is just one infeasible villain after another lining up to get punked by Naruto's "self truth" moments, with frequent flashback episodes to retroactively add the new villian to every part of the storyline. Kinda takes the impact out of the previous episodes when it shows characters capable of destroying cities just kinda sitting and watching earlier fights from the sidelines like its nothing. All those "Sanin are teh legendary fighers!" and "the Akatsuki are teh most dangerous criminals" lines become kinda irrelevant when you realize the weakest of the side cast could utterly destroy every villain from the first series at the same time with one hand.

Well, the big thing in trying to compare the two is that Naruto has crazy as fuck versatility. Orochimaru is a true immortal and Sasuke is a Planeswalker by the ending.

Same goes for DBZ again though, as Buu saga Goten would, at the ripe age of 10, have been able to single-handedly handle every threat up to Perfect Cell.

I wanted so hard that they explore those different planes

Also a spinoff of Kabuto traveling around the world recollecting all those corpses

Goten also figures out super saiyan but not flight by age seven. I remember the story joking around about it, Gohan says something about how it was like learning to run before learning to crawl.

In Naruto verse the moon was actually created by a ninja, is not that rare that can also be destroyed by one, and the moon is pretty fucking big, if you're able to destroy the moon you're able to waste the planet.

Wait holy shit, his name was ACTUALLY Nail? I thought that was a joke in the Abridged series.

Ok.jpg
But who fucking cares?

If you read the thread someone asked if Naruto chars were able to waste a planet.

Dude, how have you not noticed Dragon Ball names are pretty much all silly?

Batman's super power is making everyone else around him less competent

Well yeah but they're mostly based off of a food.

Not all of them. Bulma's family is named after underwear, and all of Piccolo's minions were named after musical instruments.

The races generally have naming schemes to them. Namekians usually have names relating to snails and slugs (obvious exception being Piccolo), full-blooded Saiyans usually have names that are a pun on vegetables and humans are usually named after foods

Who was a faggot?

If I remember right they put out filler episodes for 6 months before finishing the arc

Play XenoVerse.

That movie also mentioned (or was it Battle of Gods?) that Beerus told Freeza to blow up planet Vegeta.

Is Barduk still the legendary saiyan or was that already erased from existence?

Also, Goddamn, everything that came after Cell games sucks, specially everything that came after Buu Saga

It was battle of the gods, don't think they ever went into more detail, beerus was probably mad the saiyans were running around doing his job of destruction

He might have just been acting lazy. The guy can sleep for decades at a time, maybe he just said, "Fuck this, I'm going to bed. You, purple psycho, go do my job for me"

Bardock may have been mentioned at one point, I believe it was in battle of the gods where beerus or whis said something about SSJ Goku looking familiar

The "i'm scared of saiyans" math adds up if you take away the power level bloat from the end of the frieza saga. Monkeygeta from the saiyan saga was 180,000 actually stronger than captain gynyu. That means that a monkey form saiyan of captain ginyu's power level would have been close to a million and a half, enough to bust frieza's balls in his second form. If the show had stopped increasing numbers exponentially for each form, frieza would've been very beatable by a super saiyan ginyu equivalent with near three million.

Unfortunately, they just kept inflating shit up the wazoo.

Flyings a bitch technique anyway, that's what fire breathing turtles and magic clouds are for.

The shinobi war arc isn't that great but it has a lot of cool fights and really that's all you can ask out of a shonen series
Though I did steal the whole Edo Tensei thing for one of my home games, evil wizard resurrects the greatest warriors and heroes of the ages including some former PCs in an attempt to take over the world

It makes me wonder how much he trained, if at all, between Namek & Future Trunks arrival.

Is there a manga version of this? If not where can I find a decent streaming site? Only weeb shit I care about
wonders of nostalgia

His entire schtick was strategy. Give him info and a month of prep time and you basically have Batman.

Just watch dragon ball super, they recap the movies in horrible animation quality that was fixed on the DvDs

there's also some minor updates to the arcs such as Ginyu making a quick return

hold on there are movies?

Duh? Battle of Gods and Resurrection F

there's also Yo! Son Goku...

What kinda rock you've been living under? Super finished 2 major arcs

First two arcs of Super are the movies. So just watch the movies because they're not stretche out and have better animation, then go to the new content, which is the universe 6 tournament arc and the Future Trunks/Black Goku arc.

What the fuck?

kanzenshuu.com/translations/episode-bardock-akira-toriyama-super-qa/
>"Freeza is what you might call a mutated life-form. Strictly speaking, Freeza’s father is a mutant with an abnormally high battle power. And, born from his father alone, still in strong possession of the mutant traits, was Freeza."
>"Accordingly, even saying “Freeza’s race”, these two are the only ones who possess an abnormal [level of] battle power and cruelty."

is Icer their canonic name?

It's easier to just accept that there isn't any.

Your forgetting one key thing: Freiza is a flawed character. Frieza COULD have spent his life training and testing himself to be the strongest, but that's not what Frieza WANTS.