Any sort of meta-game transaction points system is just legitimized cheating for babies who can't handle letting the...

>I don't like THING, therefore THING is bad and if you like THING you're an babby

t. Killed by tripping on his shoes on session 1

Dice are crutches for groups who aren't confident in their story telling ability.

You spend a light one to get some shit, but when you do the GM gets a dark one iirc.

>I'm hiding from my family and shitposting as hard as I can.
Go and hug your grandma, she won't be there forever.

>Not just rolling better combinations of dice

That's what a lot of those metagame points are. LOTW for instance has Joss where you use it and you get +1 dice for the turn (Or -1 dice t someone else you don't like if you use corrupt Joss)

>Joss
Even the term's name makes you wish the author would kill themselves

not everyone lives in murrica you know

>A wuxia themed game has luck points.
>They are called the chinese word for luck.

Oh god no!

...

Well, the OP has shown they don't even understand the definition of a simple term like 'cheating', so you can hardly expect them to show any comprehension of other languages.

>Sux-ia
Nuff said

What the fuck is up with players making "decisions" like fuck if they think they have any right interacting in this dice-rolling game.

>only sensible post in this entire thread

>Joss
>You get 4 Josses this game to do with as you wish

"Cheating" explicitly means going against the established rules that're implemented to invoke fairness or to establish tone or consistency.

A fucking point that you spend to re-roll a result isn't cheating you asshat that's an established part of the rules. The only way it counts as cheating is if you ban them in your game in which case uhm okay

>fatefag tries his best

But user, rerolls are badwrongfun because I don't like it.

ITT: People who haven't realized that Paranoia is the best possible system for playing Paranoia.

>Such brilliant comebacks
I bet you're the coolest kid in the kindergarten

I mean really if you hate metagame bullshit you should probably only play dice-less systems since the die roll is technically falls under your arbitrary classification of "metagame bullshit"

You're wrong, but thanks for being so mad about it.

This guy summed it up but then we kept the thread going. Why?

>N-nuh uh!
If all you care about is rolling dice then why don't you play craps or something

>If you don't agree with me you have to go play something else!
And they said that babies who insist on using metagame get out of jail free points wouldn't come in here throwing a tantrum.

Guess you really proved them wrong senpai

How is he wrong?

I'm not wrong, this guy is just a faggot troll who isn't interested in having a discussion and I should never have replied to his obvious b8 thread

>I'm not wrong because I said I'm not wrong!
What a silly child. Check your diaper

Yeah but it seems fair to at least offer him a chance to try to defence his stance.

see

well the swedish game saga has an ok system. cause when you create a character you get d6 hero points. you cant get any more until you role up a new character. they are used to get one roll into an immidiate sucess

Sucks

That's not really an argument.

>decisions based on meta-knowledge of an abstract mechanic like re-rolls

>>>/qst
If your character's decision making process even once factors in the possibility of a reroll, you've broken character to an unforgivable degree and have entered the realm of being that guy. May as well start loading your dice at that point since you're cheating and taking the RP out of the game.

Even thinking about dice is metagaming bullshit, and dice should only used for unpredictable conflict resolution as a last resort. You do an action, see how it plays out according to the dice and then roleplay the result; sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. But there is *NO* way to separate your decision making process from the meta-knowledge of a **reroll**.

That sounds awful. Utterly random and without any relation to player action or choice.

Yeah, no. The 'Game' part is as significant as the 'Roleplaying'.

You also indulge in a ludicrous false dichotomy. Are you telling me you aren't simultaneously capable of thinking in character while also enjoying playing with the mechanical subsystems presented to you by the game? Man, you're really bad at this.

...

>Even thinking about dice is metagaming bullshit, and dice should only used for unpredictable conflict resolution as a last resort. You do an action, see how it plays out according to the dice and then roleplay the result; sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. But there is *NO* way to separate your decision making process from the meta-knowledge of a **reroll**.

How is it any harder to seperate 'reroll' from your RP than 'roll'. Especially if the source of the reroll is an in-universe thing. Like 4e has a power that is 'Roll twice and take the best' as you are literally using Chronomancy to get 2 shots at it and letting the better timeline take place.

Every decision you make is based on meta-knowledge of abstract mechanics. It's literally impossible for that knowledge not to have an effect on your decision making.

Unless you haven't read any of the rules, didn't make your character and don't understand any of the scribbles on your character sheet. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, though.

The 'Game' only exists because there's no way to accurately simulate unpredictable outcomes without dice resolution.

I propose a dropping of the term 'game' from RPG entirely and using it as a great purge to rid metagamers from our hobby and henceforth using the term RP/S or RP+S with S being a representation of simulation. We've evolved past the need to incorporate gaming as an aspect of our roleplaying experience, and the weight of gaming weighs especially heavy in the modern era and the invitation of metagamers can only be undone with a purge that RP/S can bring.

Rule-less systems exist, and are denigrated, for a reason.

>The 'Game' only exists because there's no way to accurately simulate unpredictable outcomes without dice resolution.

Oh god, fuck simulationists. You guys are the worst.

Go off into your corner to play your RPS's with other sperges while the rest of us actually enjoy engaging, interesting systems which contribute to the experience of the game.

>help help help help help bronze is still good iron is bad help bronze is good still I promise help bronze is still good help help help iron is terrible nobody buy iron
>t. your ancestor

>I propose a dropping of the term 'game' from RPG entirely and using it as a great purge to rid metagamers from our hobby and henceforth using the term RP/S or RP+S with S being a representation of simulation.
Veeky Forums is traditional GAMES. If you don't like games, get the fuck out.

I see you knowledge of metallurgy and history rivals that of your knowledge of games and enjoyment.

I'm not advocating for rule-less systems, I'm talking about an overhaul in terminology and re-designation of existing simulationist game systems and a purge/move away from the vacuum of the all en-compassing RPG.

Again I will reiterate, the dice are an intertwined aspect into the RP/S style of gameplay. They however do not make the RP/S session into a 'game'. Dice will still be used when situations become unpredictable ie firing a gun at a moving enemy, or even firing at a stationary enemy while under a lot of stress, and rules will still exist to keep the RP/S simulation in-tact and accurately simulationist, but no longer will we call them a game.

Get on the iron horse or get left behind flakeknife

Bronze is honestly basicly as good as iron once it exists. While making iron only requires iron rather than two other metals it also required a much more specialised furnace system than Bronze which was very easy to smelt and made of two rather easy to mine metals. It wasn't really until steel that bronze actually was notably worse than iron for the qualities that people want in weapons or armour and even then it's for the ability to turn iron into steel rather than iron itself being great.

Heck, Bronze still saw a lot of use in anything that would see heavy environmental wear as Iron rusts a lot worse than Bronze does.

Antiquated terminology. Times change and with it the 'gamer' of olde (who was more of a simulationist than a 'gamer') has died and been replaced by a new breed of video game fed meta/powergamers who look upon accurate simulation and engaging RP with disdain.

The RP/S will purify the pool and bring us closer to the original vision.

Yeah we do the same thing but we call them games and use them to have fun.

The big problem with bronze was that, geologically, you don't get copper and tin anywhere near each other. Smelting bronze required trade and large empires just for the logistics of it. Meanwhile, once you can get fires hot enough any bumfuck European hovel can smelt iron into solid tools.

Irrelevant. War GAMES, roleplaying GAMES and board GAMES belong on Veeky Forums. Your simulationist bullshit does not. So get the fuck out.

I quite like Drama Die

Yeah, which was one of the major issues Bronze had which led to the fall of empires that relied on it. They ran out of easy access to tin and it led to them having to start relying on iron, which they were not yet equipped to mass produce (See: Furnaces).

Both of them had issues (Bronze required more trade to get the resources for/iron required more infrastructure to mine/forge) but the world ended up favoring Iron as it's issues could be solved within a single area rather than relying on other people.

Still, as far as actual tools are concerned bronze and iron are pretty comparable. Honestly, for tools rather than weapons you are better off with bronze (And they are pretty comparable for weapons) due to the better rusting situation.

>Experience points are cheating
Okay.

On the same level as "you're wrong because I say you're wrong" so he's still come out ahead due to having made an argument in the first place.

Again, antiquated naming conventions and the genre being mislabeled as a game. Your idea of a roleplaying game is wrong. We've evolved far beyond the RPG.

Simulation is the future, and you can cling to your Savage Worlds and D&D all you want and wallow in the filth and decrepit comfort it provides you, but any elite roleplayers will embrace and exclusively 'play' RP/S.

God have mercy on the childlike games you play at a table full of un-immersed weenies who can't see beyond the gaming veil you've put on their eyes and stolen from them a world where their dreams and true visions could have been realized if it weren't for your ilk.

I like how you act all smug and elite, sure, but the shit you're spewing is nowhere near new.

You already missed the bus, man, the cool kids left without you.

>Your idea of a roleplaying game is wrong
And yours doesn't belong in Veeky Forums, so get the fuck out.

>waaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaa goo goo ga ga you dont belong here, moooooooommmmm!!!!

I'm trying to have a civil discussion on the naming convention and the distinction between an RPG and an RP/S and you're just throwing your milk bottle around.

Poetic that I'm not only trying to save our dying hobby by cleaning up the mess that the term 'game' has brought, but I'm also dealing with a literal shit flinger who can't see the green grass on the other side of the fence.

Nigga, you are trolling nonstop.

Unless you actually believe even a drop of this dogshit, in which case kys.

You're literally trying to stop roleplaying games being games. On a board called 'Traditional Games'.

Of course, you're also a troll, but y'know.

>I'm trying to have a civil discussion on the naming convention and the distinction between an RPG and an RP/S and you're just throwing your milk bottle around.
That's because you've already shown yourself either unwilling or incapable of having a civil discussion in the OP.

>I'm trying to have a civil discussion on the naming convention and the distinction between an RPG and an RP/S and you're just throwing your milk bottle around.

He's not wrong. This is a board for traditional games. If it's not a game it shouldn't likely be here any more.

And you're too dense to realize that the initial terminology of game was a misnomer. If RP/S was adopted from the start, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Wargames are certain games, the metagamey nonsense you want to pass off as "roleplaying" is a game, but I'm trying to show you a better way to 'play' (which is a term that also should be eradicated - unless explicitly referring to a gamist system like Shitvage Worlds or D&D) and henceforth we will adopt the term "participating in a session" or even in the case of an RP/S; could be known as an RP/Ss (Roleplaying/Simulation session).

I feel like we're making progress. Once we get these designations in order things will start flowing more freely.

None of that counters the point that even if what you're arguing had any merit, you'd also no longer have a place on Veeky Forums.

Alternative viewpoint: You're an arrogant piece of shit who should stop screaming about how everyone who disagrees with you is a child having badwrongfun.

Pretty sure this same user has been posting these shit "Game Mechanics are bad" threads for a couple weeks now.

Oh, is THAT what's going on? I've been away because of work, and there's like 3-4 of these fuckers up and I was roundly confused.

You're a real fucking daft cunt aren't you? Should I put your fucking bib on and feed you this piece by piece?

Should the distinction have been made 40 years ago on RPG and RP/S, both would have been mutually labelled under a blanket term of "Roleplaying Systems" and thus Veeky Forums never would have been traditional ******games***** to begin with.

We'd likely be dealing with Veeky Forums - Traditional Dice Using Systems/Cards/Board Games. Which would fully encompass not only the RPG but the RP/S as well.

Alternatively, Veeky Forums remains Veeky Forums and you can fuck off.

Jesus, Mr Kettle.

We aren't, though, which means you don't belong here.

Here's an idea, what if the points system is something recognized in-game? Call it "effort" or some shit and use it to represent the characters using some sort of internal power to put a little more "omph" into whatever their doing? Mechanically it has the same effects, but it's still an observable factor for the characters in game.

>fun

Shouldn't even factor into this conversation. This hobby isn't about fun and shouldn't be. Accurate portrayal of events and situations is the defining point of a good roleplaying experience.

Might I suggest video games if all you care about is having fun?

Same

>This hobby isn't about fun and shouldn't be. Accurate portrayal of events and situations is the defining point of a good roleplaying experience.

And yet, even if the game systems provided a completely immersive abstraction of real-life systems, a session was still a bad session if all the players didn't enjoy themselves.

>Shouldn't even factor into this conversation. This hobby isn't about fun and shouldn't be. Accurate portrayal of events and situations is the defining point of a good roleplaying experience.
Heh, so how often do you find people to play with that share your vision? What do you play? How do the sessions go?

Come on, he just overplayed his hand. That is not a human being talking.

Unless you enjoy engaging the troll in which case, godspeed.

He's a funny troll though. He's obviously taking you all for a ride and you're falling for it hard.
Thanks Simulation-Troll, you've proven just how easy it is to troll Veeky Forums.

A good roleplayer will find fulfillment outside of the confines of fun

I haven't had a chance to finish a session in several years, everyone I attempt to play with is an insufferable gamist who I couldn't stomach playing with even for an hour.

>I haven't had a chance to finish a session in several years, everyone I attempt to play with is an insufferable gamist who I couldn't stomach playing with even for an hour.

At least you're not an arrogant cunt for nothing, then. Trust me, your suffering is wholly deserved.

>You'll never escape Ron Edwards and GNS no matter how far you run.

>Ron Edwards and GNS will never stop being right no matter how mad you get.

>this entire thread
Today there seems to be an unusually high level of shitposters AND people who want to respond to shitposters.
Maybe I'll try Veeky Forums again in a few days.

>Announcing your departure
That's a week ban senpai and boy do you deserve it

Never said GNS was bad, it's just the world we live in now. If really care about my opinion it is pretty useful for making and running games if you don't consider it the be all end all and just a tool.

Well, the actual people are all out with family, as I will be in just a bit.

That just leaves the subhumans to sling shit around.

>the actual people are all out with family
>Veeky Forums is going to be filled with nothing but lonely grogs all evening
This explain everything.

>pretending

And non-americans. There's quite a lot of us.

Yeah, he said subhumans already.