The level of hate that these games get on Veeky Forums has really given me a hankering to try playing these

>parroting memes
I just said that I ran Pathfinder for two years and learned all this myself.

Shit, I wrote the wrong number there. I meant the guy I quoted, not

I don't see how the minmaxers are doing something wrong

If an RPG has a character creation minigame that is more in-depth and interesting than actual gameplay, of course you're going to have people who are interested in the game solely for the character optimization. It's hardly wrong of them to take joy in the strongest aspect of Pathfinder

It's more of a personal complaint rather than a complaint against the system or even the player base. It just annoys me, is all.

Actually, 3.5 had the spirit lion totem option for Barbarians which gave them pounce at level 1 while giving up only their fast movement, whereas PF Barbarians need to get to level 10 and waste valuable rage power slots on two otherwise useless rage powers.

Which altogether means that 3.5 martials weren't as locked into standing still and full attacking as PF martials are

Fair enough. Both games are broken shit, but sometimes in their own ways.

I'd just like a pathflounder general that isn't /rise of the shit erp general/

>all these dumb memes

I didn't expect a decent discussion of these systems to turn up on Veeky Forums, but damn, this whole post is terrible.

What separates bennies from the metacurrency systems in any other game? I think that Savage Worlds is fine game, thought it isn't as nice as GURPS.

Rage Swimming still gives me a laugh.

I too have come to hate a system based on the flaws within the system. The system was pathfinder GMed for six players after being told by a person who I could talk rules with that it fixed 3.5s faults. After finding out first hand I was wrong along with having the system associated with the idiot players that didn't learn the rules, it wore down my soul. Really this hell was self inflicted but I did it for the social interaction. I no longer loathe pathfinder as most bad feelings were with the players but I sure won't ever run or play it again.

>Bennies that reward you calling off the session after you use them up
nobody does that. and if somebody did that, they risk not getting invited again. Not to mention that this is easily houseruled away. jesus christ, stop being a faggot.

>I have to DM this shitty broken ass game
>DM
>literally pleb-tier GMing
good, i hope you suffer second of it, you worthless piece of trash

Savage Worlds is meant to be pulpy and cinematic.
Shotguns being ultimative boomsticks is pulpy as hell, if you don't like it: don't add the fucking +2 bonus. It's your game.
Bennies are supposed to encourage the players to take risks and make them able to do great stunts, a tool for a more cinematic experience.

>ruined by the goddamn Bennies that reward you calling off the session after you use them up, and hoarding them for when you take 65 damage from a halfling's thrown pebble
>ruined

This is easily averted by the way a GM handles bennies and encourages players to spend them. Don't be so stingy with them and encourage your players to rp their hindrances. There are also a shitload of setting and house rules for bennies. You're not even trying.

Also about shotguns, there are a ton of negative modifiers someone firing a weapon should have to overcome like distance, visibility, movement etc. that many GMs forget to apply. They're far from an automatic hit.

>spending so much buck on what's only use is basically fireplace fuel
Well, at least they'll help you to survive the winter if the apocalypse comes. For a day.

Nobody hates Savage Worlds except idiots who don't pay attention to the called shot rules.

>and hoarding them for when you take 65 damage from a halfling's thrown pebble
Assuming a thrown rock does 1d3 damage, the odds of that happening would be 1 in 20,920,706,406.

People don't have SW or DungeonWorld. They usually hate on the fanbase. In part rightfully so. Pathfinder is just shit though.

...

>The level of hate that these games get on Veeky Forums
Dude, EVERY game gets tremendous hate here. I honestly can't think of any game that isn't met with furious hostility by more than half of the community. Maybe the 40k games, I never read those threads, but I'd bet people claim they hate them, too. There are just a lot of angry, negative people on this board. I would take anything you read here with a grain of salt.

>actually read the roll20 application

Yeah, almost everyone gets a lot of hate. The few ones that I haven't seen attacked are games created here on the community like Time Wizards and Song of Swords.

savage worlds doesn't get flak you faggot everyone loves it

That's not true. There are few persons to hate each game sometimes those are even recognizable singular posters repeating same trash in same style, but you can clearly point out games that are hated way more widely.
So yes, (almost) every game gets some hate, but some get (way) more of it than the others.
Pathfinder and DW are clearly ones like that, SW is just OPs projection. FATE would be more appropiate in it's place though I'm not sure . I clearly see more FATE-hate than SW-hate, but still it's order of magnitude below PF-hate and DW-hate

My feelings on SW are neutral, but I do find it hilarious that I'm reading the same PF-tier defenses for the system.

>That issue isn't an issue because you can houserule it!
>That never happened in MY game, so your point is invalid.
>etc.

>Maybe the 40k games, I never read those threads, but I'd bet people claim they hate them, too
40k and its fluff is some of the worst thing that has ever happened to this board and this hobby.
Not even trolling, I fucking HATE the living shit out of that game and it's stupid fucking fanbase trying to shoehorn it into everything.

>Not even trolling, I fucking HATE the living shit out of that game
That's unreasonable.
>and it's stupid fucking fanbase trying to shoehorn it into everything.
100% reasonable.

>1000 word applications
>making a listing for a game you aren't GMing
>choosing the time for a game you aren't GMing

wew lad
Good thing you posted this here faggot. Now everyone can block your bitch-ass.

I've seen song of swords being attacked on the basis that's "fun for everyone but the GM because it's a crunchy, dense, hell" but that was like, one time

Also seen it attacked for being statblock porn for swords.

I don't have a high opinion of SoS, but I don't see a point in shitposting about it.

there's no point in shitposting about anything, because it's ultimately "what i like vs what other people like" devoid of any coherent discussion besides "i don't like x thing hurr hburr" and being bitter over it for no other reason besides having noone to vent over but strangers on a cambodian claymation imageboard and being so autistic that the only way to voice your displeasure with something is through memes, greentext, passive-agressiveness and smug anime girls

I'd like this believe this is a joke but I don't think I can

Okay, PF and DW I can see, the backlash has been building for years, but who is attacking Savage Worlds? It's a rules medium universal system with intuitive mechanics that covers a wide range of possible campaign settings.

It's not even Vanilla, it has enough cool shit it's Premium French Vanilla. Who shits on Premium French Vanilla?

>but who is attacking Savage Worlds?
It's been pointed out time and time again that the internet often brings out the worst in people, especially anonymity. Not saying people do a 180 when they start browsing these boards, but minor grievances are exacerbated into full-on shitposting when there's a platform for it. In some ways that's healthy because it allows an outlet for frustration that can't always be fulfilled offline.

Case in point, Savage Worlds is a system I'll play if it's offered, but I have no hesitation about saying how much I'm sick of the system. I play it because a close friend of mine loves it given how easy it is to run as well as all the types of community content that's produced, but I hate the exploding dice, I don't like how limited character creation is (if you play a non-human you have to take flaws to get any sort of Edges or customization), and the third party material is a mixed bag ranging from decent to god awful. Pic very much related: my LGS was selling a copy of this for nearly $40, consisting of an entirely black-and-white book with one of the most generic settings possible.

It's still one of the easier universal systems to get into if you're not interesting in GURPS, but after playing several different types of games with SW I wouldn't touch it voluntarily without heavy houseruling. If you want to play something with similar mechanics to Savage Worlds but slightly more polished in terms of combat and dice pools, I would unironically recommend any setting made by the guys who did Ironclaw, refluffing as necessary.

>not hating on DW
lel, newfag

people aren't angry; they are BORED thus shitposting

Bennies encourage hoarding to ensure you don't get instagibbed by the first opponent that crits against you. Unless you're in the heaviest possible armor with the highest possible defenses, you're going to "die" at least once in any given combat unless you pull off a soak roll.

A soak roll that can only be made with a bennie.

Isn't this directed to Dungeon World? Shit, I remember some of those points, they made sense at the time.

House rules are not a valid argument with RAW. Also I have seen this strategy employed plenty.

It's not pulpy as hell, you mong, it's fucking retarded. Pulpy as hell also involves you being able to be fucking immortal and the game doesn't have that either.

After 2 attempts paizo could not come up with a dervish that worked.
Eizards got it in one attempt.

>told by a person who I could talk rules with that it fixed 3.5s faults.
I really do wonder why some people think this.
It is worse in every single way.

>those requirements
You will fit right in with the pseudointellectualism of a worlds game.

Holy shit it is like someone crystallized and distilled every shitposter on Veeky Forums.
Weneed to study this for science.

>Pulpy as hell also involves you being able to be fucking immortal and the game doesn't have that either.
Then just make the players immortal you cock gargler. Oh, what, that's boring? WHAT A SURPRISE
This is fucking retarded. The anti SW fags don't even know what they're arguing anymore

user, this guy is the troll that's been posting "this weapon suxxx" threads.

>that application
Jhesu Crist, please tell me this was one of you guys taking the piss? No one is that cringy, right?

Of course not, there's no way OP could be bait.

>but I hate the exploding dice
>I hate my random number generating polyhedrals generating random numbers
Please explain.

>random
Wow, we kids now I guess

>Implying those aren't all 100% true

dice are supposed to generate random numbers.
Thats why not every side is labeled 6

Ssssshhhh, it's okay. You can go back to your legos now or whatever it is your parents let you play with

>TBZ between the Pathfinder books
[autism noises]

They only sound true if you're an idiot.

Or if you've actually read or played any of the games in question.

Sorry kiddo, there's literally nothing you can do about it.

Not everyone has the same experiences playing the same games user, and these experiences can permanently shape opinions.

One guy may play Pathfinder in a group where no one plays a class above tier 4 and the DM knows exactly what he's doing, while someone else may have suffered through playing a swashbuckler in a party with a powergamer druid determined to show off his amazing build with a DM who can't handle the bullshit.

The good experience is equally as viable as the bad experience. Just because you had fun doesn't mean others have not suffered

I've played all three -- liked one, hated one, and could take or leave the third -- and that post's a load of horseshit memes.

I think the idea is that the problems that SW *does* have are not as pronounced as PF's. They occur sporadically, then they are easily fixed with one or two rulings because they aren't deeply ingrainded into game's systems and are never brought up again. Nobody dedicates 4 years to fixing SW's problems by rewriting it from ground-up.

...

I don't have to like Pathfinder to defend it from bad arguments

In fact, I hate Pathfinder, in my personal experience it is the most disappointing RPG ever made. Promised as 3.5 but with all the bullshit fixed, it as 3.5 with all the bullshit intact + more bullshit (CMD and CMB are the worst)

But, that's a subjective opinion, brought along by my expectations being too high for the actual product combined with a disappointing first session DMed by a Paizo fanboy, I would never claim it's objective truth because other people don't have the same experience with the game as me

It's literally one of the options in the Core rulebook, and it's brought up again in various setting books.

Well I mean have you been to a pathfinder thread? I've also not seen any savage world's hate, the few generals it gets from time to time tend to just be dull.

Curious about dungeon world though.

>Bennies that reward you calling off the session after you use them up
Could someone explain this to me? How does not showing up the next session matter for bennies?

Like I've seen people hoard them until the last moments of a game, which is dull, but I'm not getting what you're on about.

>(if you play a non-human you have to take flaws to get any sort of Edges or customization)
So you miss out on a single edge and have to actually take hindrances? Do you normally not take hindrances? Rather do you not normally max them out and then some?

Now excuse me while I get the ability to fly at character creation, take a pike, and literally ruin the game for everyone else.

Like at least hate on the right things man.
(also interface0 shot gun best shotgun, +2 only applies out of short range)

Pathfinder is fun

Anyone who says otherwise is a meme spewing neck beard who thinks his experiences with his toxic as fuck players represent the system as a whole and wishes everyone would just play his shitty Homebrew.

in that case bennies arent the problem, they are the solution (to another system problem).

see

and
see

>needing to be told that that douche is a troll
don't embarrass the others anons, guys
jesus, the quality of Veeky Forums has REALLY declined. it's a clear-cut troll thread and still people take the bait like the morons that they are

Pathfinder might be a decent improvement on 3e but that's not exactly a high bar.

3e's still shit, no matter how hard you polish it.

see

Let's see, using the example of halfling with a pebble, and ignoring that ignores all probabilities in play especially because an "insta-gibbing-crit" would likely completely ignore all armor and defenses (as they tend to scale towards the regular amount of damage you tend to see getting shit out, again bitching about the system, jwithout using actual bits of the system worth bitching over).

Half-folk receive no modifiers to strength so assuming the average of d6, and a pebble would at worse be just the ability to do strength damage at a range, or an additional d4 damage due to being an improvised small thrown weapon.

Let's do the math for both because just strength is piss easy. Let's also assume average throwing because who the fuck actually puts points into throwing?

Str rock. To hit 50% against some guy standing still 12 feet over there in the open field we're all standing in with no notable terrain features.
Chance of wounding (again assuming an average opponent meaning d6 vigor and as such 5 toughness) - 11%
Chance of instagibbing (keeping in mind that 60 some damage is a bad example because wounds cap at 4) - 00.31%.

Chance to hit with improv weapon rock is actually only 14% unless this halfling has the edge. Which like fuck he does.
Chance to wound - 30%
Chance to instgib - 01.25%

And because we're all forgetting incap chances for the victim assuming wildcard because we wouldn't be bitching if this happened to a random mook.
Dead - 3%
Bleeding out - 56%
Unconscious - 41%

Chance to die from most damaging halfling
14% * 1.25% * 59% (assuming unhelpful teammates) = 0.1%

Or in other words an over exaggerated problem that only sticks with you because it happened once and humans remember bad luck pretty well.

great post, mate. too bad it was posted in a troll thread.

Ehh, I just like dice math.

>Half the stats don't matter because you can "defy danger" to dodge a fireball with charisma if you can justify it to the fucking DM that you deflected the fire with the sheer force of your ego, the game fucking allows it so long as it "fits the fiction."
That's why the DM just goes "nah, that doesn't make sense" unless it makes sense.

>1000 word
>six page
Do you use a fucking kindergarten easy reader font?

a thousand words is about two pages and op wants that 3 times.

Nah I don't mean OP, I mean the guy who replied to OP's game with an application

Basically, you receive 3 bennies at the start of the next session and fags have been pushing the narrative that one could just spend all their bennies and then call it early because of how the rules work.

What ruins that thought however is that, surprise, once people catch on to what you're doing, they're not going to invite you back for being a ponce.

1000 words is anywhere between 2-3 pages depending on the type of words that you're using in your paper.

And this motherfucker is asking you to submit this shit three times, just to participate in a recreational activity that involves playing pretend and rolling dice.

It's asinine.

>The level of hate that these games get on Veeky Forums has really given me a hankering to try playing these.

Just ignore the trolls and stop pretending the worst people on Veeky Forums are any significant part.

I'm fine with that if it's a good campaign and I'm emotionally invested in it.

I'm not fine with that as an entry requirement for a game which could be good or bad, and I don't know yet.

Savage Worlds is an ok system. People who enjoyed Deadlands and AFMBE will probably enjoy it, too. It's not a perfect system, but it's simple enough and it works.

Pathfinder is D20 and basically all D20 based systems are outdated shit. They only survive because of DnD/ADD undeserved popularity. Pathfinder also seem to be pretty unbalanced.

Dungeon World is some weird narrative shit like Apocalypse World or Monsterhearts. It's closer to childhood fantasy stories than a real TTRPG. Numales, faggots, landwhales, lesbians and SJW's seem to enjoy this kind of game where everyone is a DM.

Except the game has been set up to produce a shitty experience that is easy to abuse within RAW. House rules are irrelevant, they are not RAW, stop using that shitty justification you little motherfucker.

Savage Worlds' problems are just as severe as Pathfinders, they just haven't been meme'd to death on Veeky Forums.

> Nobody dedicates 4 years to fixing SW's problems by rewriting it from ground-up.

That's because there's not enough system there to rewrite.

>What ruins that thought however is that, surprise, once people catch on to what you're doing, they're not going to invite you back for being a ponce.

So basically you are punished for acting intelligently? Holy shit, Savage Worlds literally introduces a mechanic that is TERRIBLY designed, then punishes anyone who figures out how to use them with social ostracization!

Kill youself. Your game is shit and you are trying to defend it with "well well the GM can do this" and "well well the GM can do that," well well, you can go fuck yourself, Savage Worlds fan, because your game is such an enormous load of horseshit it can't even beat out a shitty OSR Apocalypse World clone in popularity.

Here's a fix.

Every successful attack lowers toughness by 1.

>Numales, faggots, landwhales, lesbians and SJW's seem to enjoy this kind of game where everyone is a DM.

Except, no one is a DM. The rules are restrictive bullshit and the theme of the game is nothing like the mechanics of Apocalypse World were meant to produce. He wanted firefly, not Lord of the Rings with the most cowardly cumdrop of grimdark tacked on. He wanted interparty conflict, plotting, leverage, etc not slaying 16 hit point elder dragons that require a shitload of the DM lying, and bullshitting, to make challenging.

How the fuck does that fix anything or make anything interesting? In fact it literally defeats the purpose of the game, which is a complete lack of bookkeeping. You want me to track which orcs have Toughness 8 and which have Toughness 7?