Chosen vs Grail Knight vs Blood Knight

Blood Knight > Grail Knight > Chosen.

Grail Knights are impressive, but they can't stand a chance against a Vampire who gives his entire existence to the art of fucking shit up in close combat. They're straight up stronger, faster and more resilient, not to mention most likely more experienced.

Chosens are pretty strong, but a random chosen isn't at the level of a Grail Knight or a Blood Knight. He wouldn't get instagibbed but would ultimately prove to be fighting an opponent he won't be able to overcome; you'd have to look at Chaos Champions for a fairer fight, in which case a Chaos Champion with a decent amount of blessings would stomp the knights.

It depends on the dice.

Blood knights also have scary horses.

That's still throwing a named lord against some no name guy. Gee, who would win, Killfuck Soulshitter, or the guy who doesn't even have a name tag?

>You are a legitmate retard.

Archaon wasn't an Everchosen at the time. One retarded point for you.

>Warhammer Fantasy and 40k are not connected.

I wasn't talking about 40K and fantasy being connected.

The word "Multiverse" first appeared in WHFB 6th ED "Hordes of Chaos" and the Lizardmen army book had the Old Ones travelling universes and dimensions, and this continued onwards across the editions. The multiversal aspect of the WHFB universe rose to be the primary aspect in AoS.

Another retarded point for you.

>You could argue that Khaine is Omnipresent

Fantasy Khaine is just an ascended mortal who met his final end in the End Times. He is not connected to the 40K Khaine who was a psychic construct made during the War in Heaven.

Retard point 3

>you are a super turbo retard

Ad homs with nothing to back you up. Gork and Mork couldn't stop the world from being destroyed. Grimgor had Gork squeezed into him as well as the Winds of the Beast when he fought Archaon. Archaon defeated Grimgor and sent Gork to the unknown.

Mork was no where to be seen.

Four retard points. Impressive.

>He doesn't know about the Sword of Khaine ala Widowmaker
Also
>Says Ad Hominems means no arguement
>Still uses them
You're no better than me arrogant chaosfag

Everchosen or not, we are talking about Archaon Sue, a named Chaos Lord with a 4-inch-thick plot armor

it's a bad representation of what a normal Chosen is like

Yeah and grimgore kicked Archaon in the nuts.

No adhoms were thrown. Just facts and citations.

>Widowmaker

Turned into a worthless hunk of metal after Khaine's death.

Sigmarine

Too bad he was beheaded by Archaon right after

>Inb4 "plot armor"
Grimgor, just like all orcs, is nothing more than a joke character

Nah man.

Blood Knight = Grail Knight > Chosen

Blood Knights biggest Rivals in fights are always Grail Knights.

The story in 6E Vampire counts book explains it best, when a Blood Dragon spares a young questing knight and then later thinks to himself he'll

All the destruction of the world did was ironically weaken the chaos gods in Age of Sigmar.

>Gork and Mork couldn't stop Archaon
except when Grimgor even without powers backing him during the Storm of Chaos headbutted him and made him pussy his way back to the realm of chaos.

Are you trying to say Archaon doesn't have plot armour for days?

He's constantly being bailed out by either the chaos gods shifting fate or by Be'lakor shifting fate.

>Orcs all have to be joke characters
Sure, they totally are.

Uhh no he wasent Grimgore beat Archaon by kicking him in the dick then he walked away while the everchosen was on the ground holding his crushed marbles.

>Warrior blessed by gods of incalculable might vs Frenchman blessed by some elf vs some low tier vampire

Hmm, I wonder.

>All the destruction of the world did was ironically weaken the chaos gods in Age of Sigmar.

>weakened
>They been destroying universes left and right ever since

You mean made their enemies stronger but they lost anyways in the Age of Chaos thanks to Archaon.

Samefag

Named characters > Blood Knights >= Grail Knights > Chosen

Actually, Archaon is his own man. He kicked his oldman to curb a long time ago.

>epitome of viking-esque martial prowess
>honourless
wat?

It's really hard to gauge Blood Knights vs Grail Knights because they're pretty much equal in some regards while overtaking eachother in others.
Grail Knights can regenerate wounds from what I remember and so can vampires.
Unless the Blood Dragon in paticular has some otherworldly stupid weaknesses(which if I remember right the Vampires in WHFB aren't weak to sunlight.) then BD have no problem in that regard but so do Grail Knights.
Grail Knights holiness is a direct weakness to Blood Dragons if I'm recalling but that's only if they're using blessed weapons or something like that or Magic of the Grail.

Blood Dragons.. might have better horses? It's hard to tell because Bretonnians jack them off so much but BD horses are scarier looking.

Blood Dragons have a advantage on experience and maybe even martial prowess in everything except for Lances I want to say that Grail Knights Chivalrous nature helps them but it might not.

Now in Walach Harkon vs Louen Leoncoeur
I think it might be a Stalemate since from my knowledge Louen has been alive for a century now which is a point where all the experience just starts bleeding together.

The Green Knight vs Abhorash is going to be upsetting for Blood Dragons though because I personally think the Green Knight would win against Abhorash.
GK had such a huge presence in Bretonnian Lore and being this Demi-Godlike figure who spooks even Questing Knights away from being Grail Knights.
Hell he even had the power of a Elven God fused in him after his original Death that's sick.

I think overall though Blood Dragons and Grail Knights and their respective leaders/founders are more of a stalemate and rivalry.
You can have such thing as "too much experience" where the battlefield evolves to where you can't handle it anymore but then again Bretonnians still haven't progressed past medieval France.

I like to think that Gilles and Aborash were bros.

That's what happened in the End times.

Gilles and Abhorash broed it up defending the last Chapel of Bretonnia.

Generally speaking, the more powerful a vampire is, the less his weaknesses hinder him. Exceptionally old/powerful vampires are immune to the sun altogether. Moreover, some vampires can be more susceptible to some things which don't hurt other vampires at all, so it heavily depends on the vampire in question.

Still, they're usually weakened by religious symbols sustained by strong faith and silver/blessed weapons: Grail Knights probably carry both religious symbols and blessed weapons. So while the average Grail Knight wouldn't be able to out-duel a Blood Knight, these weapons allow them to even the odds.

>Walach Harkon vs Louen Leoncoeur
Probably a stalemate, I agree.

>The Green Knight vs Abhorash
Personally, I think Abhorash would destroy him. As far as pre-End Times lore is concerned, Abhorash is most likely THE most powerful single close-combat warrior in the Old World at the moment.

Wasn't it implied that they met when Gilles was still mortal? Like he and Aborash had made some pact or one saved the others life and were honour bound to return the favour. I can't recall where that was written as the End Times makes me want to vomit up blood but that was one of the few, few good things about it.

>Abhorash is most likely THE most powerful single close-combat warrior in the Old World at the moment

Ungrim Ironfist could probably contend that, and Tyrion.

Also to weigh in this fight, Grail Knights who are pure enough can create an Aura that destroys undead.

...

I like how when the Lady reveals to basically be using Grail Knights for Chaos fodder Gilles tells her to fuck off and Preserves his Honour.

I like how there's been some hints at rather subtle progression. A tapestry of Giles le Breton depicts him with a chainmail hauberk and surcoat, somewhere around the 12th century level of armor, but Bretonnian armor of knights today is more like transitional mail and plate - somewhere around 1350. So it's only a couple centuries of progression over thousands of years, but it's something.

That aura would most likely destroy the least powerful undead, but I don't really know much about it. Can you tell me more?

8th edition book says that Bretonnians back then wore mail and leather, and used spears instead of lances. 'Modern' day Bretonnians have transitional plate and some even have full plate, based on how it was described in Knight Errant.

I like how they met the end of the world fighting alongside each other in the remains of Bretonnia. There is a history between them that we barely know, and that's good writing there.

If I recall a WD had a story about when the Lichemaster tried to invade Athel Loren in the winter.

The Tree Spirits tried to stop him at the Barrows but were failing until a Grail knight showed up.

He had a rule that straight up did like d6 damage to ALL undead in base contact.

He was quite broken if you ever used him in the main game against Vampires because He'd basically wipe out units by Proximity,

Duke Tancred was also in the 5th edition book.

I don't think it is religious symbols in general that weaken vampires, but specifically Sigmar's that fuck up vampires

It was Nagash that cursed them for being shits that didn't help him, he's kind of a dick like that. First they bailed on him in his war with the still living Nehekharans and then they failed to show up for his war with the young Empire, aside from a few but not enough to make a big impact in the war.

Yeah, he cursed vamps with a weakness towards Sigmar, not the lady, ulric, chaoß, or Shylla. Vamps are fine with faith its Sigmar that gets them.

No, no, as a rule of thumb all Vampires are repulsed by religious symbols (even chaos symbols) as long as the wielder has strong faith in the deity. The same applies to Blessed Weapons.

This stems from the fact that Vampires are so strongly tethered to the material world, their soul is outside the grasp of the afterlife, the warp, or the realms of any god.

Some sources state Sigmar's faith is particularly strong because of Nagash's curse, but in truth Vampires (especially low tier ones) always find it hard to harm wielders of items of faith.

>The WHOLE FUCKING MOON+Skaven empire vs one dead frog
WHO WIN?

The Skaven

>Wooooow. It only took you a whole empire and a moon to kill me scrubs

Norsca might have a viking aesthetics, but they are by definition anathema to anything honorable and civilized.

>implying

They worship Khorne is god obsessed with honour

By southern realm standards, yes, but they have their own ethics and morals. What's honourable to them may be horrific to us. They're also not entirely barbaric, that's more of a Kurgan thing. Now those guys are monsters, due to their close proximity to the Realm of Chaos.

The sigmarine ;^)

Grail Knight and Blood Knight refer directly to units on the field. Chosen does not, a Dude who just got his Chaos Armor from his god is a Chosen as is the old ass Chaos General who is a master of war and magic for centuries.
Depends how down the road the Chosen is.
If he or she is rather fresh it's a par with the Grail Knight but below the Blood Knight.
Wearing Chaos Armor is a very elite thing, most armored Warriors of the North just wear heavy Armor.

A Chose who's old as fuck and has his/her own host will krump the other two.

>If he or she is rather fresh it's a par with the >Grail Knight but below the Blood Knight.
>Wearing Chaos Armor is a very elite thing, most armored Warriors of the North just wear heavy Armor.

>A Chose who's old as fuck and has his/her own host will krump the other two.

If regular Chosen were as strong as Grail Knights and Blood Dragons then the Old World would just be a chaos waste 2.0
Chaosfanboys are so deluded

The Norse also venerate Ulric and Taal.
The Björnlings propably like Ursun, considering their merc regiment is led by a Were-Bear.

Which is not to say that they would not venerate the chaos gods or some demon prince next door, too.
They are seen as rather equal up north.

Of course that changes completely further north. The tribes there are seen as fucked up even by the Norse.
They go pure Chaos.

Regular Chosen are already rare as fuck.

The common "Chaos Warrior" is slightly blessed by chaos and still wears heavy armor.
They do not wear Chaos Armor. That signifies a Chosen.

That been said there are propably more Grail Knights than Chosen in fantasy.

I always loved that story. It made the Norse seem human instead of one dimensional villians.

Kind of meh, they never got an official army.
Just that weird Hordes of Chaos thing which neither fits the nomad horse riders in the wastes nor the Norse...

>arguing over a dead setting

It has something I like which is essentially 'my values are not your values', that these are people that have their own way of life and you can't judge them based on your own morals because their society is so different from yours. You might not get them, and probably never will because you haven't lived among them. I dislike settings and stories that clearly have modern day values in an otherwise fantasy or whatever world.

>proceed to describe why grail fags and brits are better
>"but GW sucks chaos dick"

topkek, m80

Templars of the Everlasting Light are the best.
They're cursed to die stupid deaths so they rarely fall in battle against strong foes.

That's the one with a Grand Master that got kicked by a horse into a manure cart, eh?

I mean, Chaos won. That's how GW sucks Chaos dick. They write badass factions that for all rights should be awesome, but then have everything crumple to the power of ridiculous bullshit of Archeon and his magical three headed dick.

No, the regular "chaos warrior" wears chaos armor. Chosen are just a more blessed version of chaos warriors, with more mutations and powers.

Is the Chosen riding anything?

>a chosen
>Chooses the Everchosen and Archeon at that
You might as well say all Space Marines are stronger than Greater Daemons by comparing a Primarch to no-names.

Order of the Broken Sword is better. Simple, to the point, badass.

I really think GW missed an opportunity when they didn't give Bretonnia knightly orders. They're begging to be Hospitallers and Templars.

>Everything about Chaos is how it's a nigh-unstoppable force and how people fear it despite the other factions being:
>A Society of Elves who ride dragons and practise even more lethal magic than the Lore of Chaos
>A Society of Elves who kill anyone who shows any vunerability and have holidays around murder and death
>Hivemind Lizard People who ride dinosaurs that eat dinosaurs
>A Holy Roman Empire mockup with Tanks, Repeater Firearms, and scary as fuck weapons of war along with Knights who eat Giant Orcs for breakfast
>Orcs who get progressively bigger and stronger and greener as they fight that "cooperate" with another race by pure submission to them that logistically survive off of nothing but squigs which can breed and survive anywhere.
>Wood Elves with a prince and queen who turn themselves into a Demigod every Spring season
>Bear riding russians who lance people on bears and ice queens who have a huge mastery of magic
>A bunch of italians and spanish who kill eachother for fun in duels
>Dwarves who burrow themselves so deep in the world's asshole they don't have to care about anything except ratmen with gatling guns in their tunnels but regardless they have organ guns and helicopters
>Ratmen with gatling guns mentioned above
>Goblins who make poisons and ride giant spiders
>Vampires who can raise armies of undead with the flick of a finger
>Undead who can raise armies of vampires with the flick of a finger
>Nagash aka worse fate than chaos according to Mannfred von Carstein himself.
Chaos wins against all of that just because.
Chaos has "Exceptional warriors" in about all divisions but they're usually outclassed by other factions who specialize in a division, the fact that they win against those factions is what's the dicksucking.

And yet Chaos Trumps all of this because it's "Chaos"

Chosen are pretty much chumps compared to a Blood Knight or a Grail Knight, and they aren't even Knights, but infantry. In combat they'll get wrecked by either a Grail Knight or Blood Knight, even dismounted. Both have absurd healing factors and basically have lightsabers with their blessed/tainted weapons. Going by WHFRPG 2nd Ed, I'm pretty sure that Chosen are laughably inferior to Grail Knights too.

It comes down to the Blood Knight or Grail Knight, and really depends on the individual.

>All these stupid fucking horsejackers and twilight fangirls in the thread
Just because you can't take that Chaos is stronger doesn't mean you have to get your panties in a twirl.

What's the matter, can't deal with people not liking your Chaos Sues?

Grail Knights and Blood Dragons steamroll Chosen

Nigga do you even fucking tabletop or RPG? Chosen are mooks.

In 40k terms, it's like comparing...well, a Chosen, the Chaos equivalent of a veteran or a sergeant, to a Blood Angel Captain or a Dark Angels Interrogator Chaplain.

I just read over the WHFRP2e Rulebooks
The only absolute way for a Champion of Chaos to come up to par with a Grail Knight or a Blood Dragon on a 1v1 level is to become a Exalted Champion of Chaos or get especially "blessed" which even then it can only help them so much.
Blood Dragons and Grail Knights on their stats that actually matter.
Grail Knights starting as humans will get 2d10+20 with a average of 31 this applies to every stat
By the time they're a Grail Knight they will have 66 Strength and 71 WS with 66 Toughness
Your average Blood Dragon will have Suprise Suprise 71 WS, 61 Strength, and 61 Toughness though The Blood Dragons in this case in the book are not supposed to have careers accounted for as NPC generated vampires(Otherwise they would be legitmately broken).
The only major difference here is that the Grail Knights get a +8 to wounds so the maximum they could have is 20 whereas a exceptional Blood Dragon could have 22 - 30 with 22 on average but that's the benefit of being a Vampire I assume
Blood Dragons: Disarm, Lightning Parry, Specialist
Weapon Group (Cavalry, Two-handed), Strike Mighty
Blow, Strike to Injure, Strike to Stun
The Following here are the talents of the Blood Dragons above.
Talents: Grail Virtue (the one that matches the character’s Virtue of
Knighthood), Luck, Public Speaking, Resistance to Chaos,
Sixth Sense, Specialist Weapon Group (Two-handed), Stouthearted,
Strike Mighty Blow, Strike to Injure, Sturdy, Very
Resilient, Very Strong, Warrior Born
Above are the Grail Knight's talents

Blood Dragons contain the following traits aswell.
Traits: Blood Gift (Blood Drain, Natural Necromancer,
Vampires’ Curse), Keen Senses, Natural Weapons (Claws,
Fangs), Night Vision, and Undead
Frightening, and blood gift.

Also the final thing I must say is that the Vampires DO NOT have Fate Points which is a huge deciding factor in some cases but obviously evens out, along with the lack of having a proper career which is balanced by their talents

I forgot to account that Grail Knights had Warrior born so they have 76 WS, my bad.

Virtue of Heroism can end a fight in a single attack, too.

Bump

Interestingly enough, the Red Duke was defeated by the King of Bretonnia, a Grail Knight. They raised lances in challenge and raced full gallop towards each other and the King speared him through the heart. Unfortunately he had a jewel that contained his life essence and it rejuvenated him over time, but it's still a good example of what a Grail Knight is capable of and why having the Lady's highest blessing being mandatory for being king is a good thing.

Sir Reolus didn't deserve to die. ;_;

>shit Grail knight BTFO by superior chaos champion

Grail Knights are barely better than empire knight grandmasters, idk why everyone thinks they're supermen

>>chaos champion literally cheats by getting regeneration
>>grail knight kills him twice
>>he honours the grail knight despite nearly defeating him
>>a sorcerer says to betray their agreement and he says 'fuck off' to said shaman
Nice try.

Is the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 3rd Edition worth looking into, and can you play it without the cards? from what I know, it is sort of like the Fantasy Flight Star Wars. No response from WHFB General or AoS General.

Okay, that's awesome.

>Grail Knights are barely better than empire knight grandmasters,
Why are Chaos fanboys always illiterate troglodytes? Is it the irony of being similar to their favorite faction?

>raiding fisher villages and monasteries like somalian pirates
>muh honor
Shut up, Vikernes

It's not in print anymore anyway so I wouldn't bother.

To be fair, the Skaven don't oppose Chaos but actively teamed up with them

What you listed for Blood Dragons should be added to a pre existing character with at least one career.

Also, the Blood Gift offers a fuckton of neat stuff you overlooked. Blademaster reduces the opponents attacks by 1, Terrible Blows makes parrying 30% harder, there's a one which makes you ignore armor on charge attacks, another which stuns the opponent just by looking at him in the eye...

That was after Archaeon had just defeated a reincarnation of Sigmar wasn't it? It was never a straight up fight, Grimgor was fresh, Archaeon wasn't

What other gods in the setting are there that can stand against the Chaos Gods?

Khaine, but malekuck fucked it all up

Ah my bad, back when I played it was different. Chaos armor was rare then.

>The Grandmaster of a entire Knight Order is as good as a Grail Knight
Gee who woulda thought?

>Too bad he was beheaded by Archaon right after
You mean years later? In the End times Chaos wank

It was said long ago that in the end every struggle is in vain because Chaos will win. It was never expected otherwise.
>Goblins who make poisons and ride giant spiders
>A bunch of italians and spanish who kill eachother for fun in duels
Are those really suppose to be examples that are stronger than Chaos forces?
Many races were dying. The empire struggled more and more against the Enemy within, while Chaos can always regenerate.
Sooner or later this would have happened.
Every smart guy in the Warhammer world knew that.