Is it possible to have a Jainist paladin? Or is there simply no possible way to rationalise violence (whether reactive or proactive) in Jainism? I've seen at least one notation that suggests violence is acceptable but only in the most extreme cases of self defense when all diplomacy has been exhausted.
Or could one rationalize accepting more Bandha upon one's soul, so as to reduce the suffering and bandha of others, and so doing commit violence of righteousness knowing it damns your Karma?
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Short answer: No.
Long answer: Nope.
In Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny, Sam gived a speech on good, evil, beauty and ugliness to the the followers of the buddha, arguing that to fight for beauty would not violate their principles. It is quite near the beginning of the book, but it is well worth the whole read. New wave science fiction at its finest.
If by "paladin" you mean "knight in shining armour fighting in direct physical combat against the evils of the world", then fuck no.
Besides, that's just cape shit crammed into pseudo-knighthood.
If you ask if you can have a Jainist guy that is genuinely good person helping everyone around, the answer is... still no. Because this is very, VERY self-absorbed philosophy, since you focus on your own "salvation" while trying not to disrupt or kill anything around you.
Same shit applies to early forms of Buddhismm, the Indian ones - they are so fucking selfish it's just amazing Buddhism passes as "the compassion religion" nowdays.
>I should burn in hell forever because other people fucked their shit up
lmao ok
Implying the salvation offered by Jesus is anything different, adherence to a creed only to avoid torture
...
>talks about capeshit and buddhists being pricks
>i'm the fedora
shouldn't you be reading Rob Leifield comics or something instead of shitposting on Veeky Forums?
...
Fruitless attempt to get this thread back on track and not devolve into /pol/ /fedora/ /whatever/:
What are some good and unusual belief systems or philosophies to base an adventuring/crusading hero on?
>inb4 Sikhs
YES, WE ALL KNOW ABOUT FUCKING SIKHS BY NOW.
That was my first post in this threat, user. And it's the most accurate post about you. :^)
He's not even me, you fucking dolt.
And I've got a clue for you - instead of getting pop-culture version of buddhism, read into actual Buddha teachings. Especially what is now theravada, since mahajana at least realised this shit is pants on head retarded and leads to complete disruption of society.
Really, any form of buddhism after initial disciples died had to rework the shit out of it, because the original version can be pretty much summed up in "Fuck this shit, I'm out, because I'm a special snowflake".
Now that's fedora shit.
Sorry user, but that's literally it.
You either go Sikh, or you go nowhere fast
There's Zoroastrianism, maybe? I guess that's just basically every Paladin ever played straight, though.
Protip: Buddhists weren't selfish, as that would imply attachment. They just wouldn't give a fuck about anything because to give a fuck about anything is also attachment.
Sikh is less about crusading and more about protecting the borders. That's a huge-ass difference.
Crusading implies you are trying to liberate some piece of "holy land" or fight the other religions as the ATTACKER.
Sikhism is all about DEFENDING your position and fellow believers, in form of reacting to attacks, not starting them.
And not giving a fuck about anything is also an attatchment to your own hubris, which was adressed it the very first speech Buddha gave in the Gazelle Park
Long story short - everything is evil and you should just die, preferably not thinking about it.
Talk about edgy shit.
Considering everything and all, while skipping Sikhs:
Mormons
Copts in medieval times
Yoruba
and already mentioned twice - Zoroastrianism
There is also ikko-ikko from Japan, but that requires extra gymnastics to work it out.
>mormons
>good
They fit the bill of what the user asked for more than everything else I've listed, so go fucking figure
Dogs in Vineyard are all about being Mormon paladin, so I'm not sure what the hell you are even talking about.
>Mormons
Dogs in the vineyard.
Woefully underappreciated these days.
Mormons used to attack, raid, and destroy peaceful non mormon settlers passing through or into Utah. The US army had to march out to Salt Lake City and force them to surrender to get it to stop.
Oh, so it's ok when Americans do this to natives, but wrong with other Americans do it to them?
Fucking hilarious
user, don't want to break it for you, but none of the settlement trails was passing through Utah and for a good reason - there is nowhere to go and you need to go through really nasty deserts and mountains.
So the only people in there were those trying to settle down IN Utah.
You are seriously amazed Mormons were defending themselves with all means possible, since the very reason they've settled in that god-forsaken place was to stay the fuck out of non-Mormons and finally have peace without dumb Pollacks and other idiots attacking them just because they believe in Bible fanfiction?
Considering this
>What are some good and unusual belief systems or philosophies to base an adventuring/crusading hero on?
Mormons are exactly what user asked for. I'm sorry you are pissy about bunch of bearded polygamysts killing your grand-grandfather, but that's not what the user asked about. He got what the question was about.
...
>American imperialism
>Good
>GOOD and unusual
Taking good to mean interesting, Mormons don't count.
They're just faggots that worship space yankee doodle jesus because of fanfiction. Just because it's weird and stupid doesn't make it interesting or compelling.
>Mormons don't count.
Then I advise to try Dogs in the Vineyard, which is all about Mormon imaginery and believes.
You will change your stance in no time.
Eh.
Zoroastrians don't really work for a holy warrior type guy. It works for a society in which it takes place, sure (Especially because of their multiculturalism), but their belief system is hardly... suited.
The Mountain Meadows massacre for example was such an obvious bit of bullshit that it even inspired stories about cults across the Atlantic. (Arhtur Conan Doyle wrote a story based on it for example)
That second bit was meant to be a reply to
Anyway, the basic point is that the Mormons THEMSELVES even admit they totally fucked up in those early days and were little better than murderous brigands.
When an organization that can't really admit that its generations of explicit exclusion of black people was racist, admit that they did something, you should listen up.
>Be a sovereign state
>Tell everyone to stay the fuck out
>They come in anyway
>Everyone is surprised they are gunned down
Wow, such evil act on behalf of Mormons for defending their borders.
Next thing you will call Boers evil, because they've resisted Brits pushing into their countries.
They did that grand total of ONCE.
Which was all the justification US government needed to invade them. But hey, those evil Mormons need to get some freedom and democracy!
>Once
>Implying
Stop whitewashing the history of that cult man.
> Somewhere, a Navajo tribesman feels even more livid.
>Be a bunch of retarded citizens of X country
>Move to a place in X country
>Be so shitty that you get thrown out of that place.
>Move to Y place inside the borders of X country (The State of Desseret was inside the mexican concession, I.E. within the US)
>Refuse to follow the laws of X country, pay taxes, or do anything else.
>Claim you're citizens of X country anyway.
>Petition of statehood
>Get denied, because you're like a bunch of crazy dudes who control like 5% of the territory you claim.
>Start murdering dudes
>Get surprised when you are told to get your shit together by the country you claim to be citizens of.
Hmm.
Hmmmmm
Nice historical revisionism you've got there.
>Muh Manifest Destiny
Americans should fucking finally learn how borders work
>Thou shalt not kill
>even the original paladins went to multiple wars
Yes it's possible.
The Eternals had Jain mafia enforcers and assassins, too (without a single leather article on them).
How about this - stop making Mormons some sort of death cult based on human sacrifice. The amount of shit Mormons get in American historiography is just fucking amazing. It's like Americans were desperateto have some sort of evil empire to face after getting rid of Brits, only to realise there is nothing else on the whole fucking continent.
>sovereign state
kek
What historical revisionism?
The part where the Mormons wanted to be a state?
That part's true.
The part where the US owned the territory that would've become the state of Desseret through the Mexican concession?
Also true, that's how the Mormons could apply for statehood.
The part where they were thrown out due to being dicks?
That ain't got shit to do with manifest destiny, it's also true.
The Mormons didn't claim to be sovereign at any point where they were outside of recognized US territory.
No one is making them out to be a death cult.
Just a bunch of brigands justifying their massacres and robbing by othering non-mormons.
They're really no worse than the Hashashin or Thugees were.
>Americans should fucking finally learn how borders work
They only work if you're strong enough to defend them.
It's good that the Americans conquered the entire continent and put it to much better use than the injuns.
There is nothing wrong with imperialism and conquest.
>Entire continent
>Forgets Mexico, Canada and Greenland.
That still doesn't change how American textbooks about the whole thing is written. If you look at the whole thing as an outsider, it's just fucking ridiculous - on both sides, since Mormons as such are already a joke all things considered. Then there is the (typical) over-reaction of federal government of US of A.
And all the quirks of 19th century expansionism and imperialism
TL;DR this shit is fucking ridiculous if you watch it as an outsider
Here is your (You), can't post proper gif from phone
>Mexico
>wanting Mexicans in your country
>Canada
>wanting Canadians in your country
>Greenland
>wanting Danes in your country
>over-reaction
>maintaining order within national territory and shutting the fuck down a violent group is "over-reaction"
Better to be cruel, quick, and bloody than humane, slow, and ineffectual.
Believe it or not there have been Jain soldiers, and Jain Kings who went to war.
Jainism, like any other religion is an ideal, but it is also a people - the Jains, and when the people, the the faith are threatened, then good men must take up the sword, even with sadness in their hearts.
/pol/, why are you so /pol/?
You are literally one step away from a board with amputees raping each other with horsecocks and you want to shock us, because you have your right-wing agenda? Oh no, he doesn't want to be humane! He said that on Veeky Forums, where quarter of the content is W40k, a game about being bigoted asshole as a valid stance.
We are all SOOO shocked with your agenda, literally crushed. The only thing you are doing is desperately asking for attention
Wrong board, friendo
>this much projection
Believe it or not, user, but some people actually believe things, and just don't say them to modify opinion about themselves.
I know, crazy right?
user,but Clappistan tried to conquer entire Canada and did conquer third of Mexico, so what the fuck? They've also conqured Cuba, Puerto Rico and fucking Philipines out of all places.
Liberia is a thing, too.
Which begs for question - what do we care about your believes and how they are related with the thread or the subject of it?
Because you are literally wanking your own personal agenda with zero relation with thread content.
Thus - post paladin ideas and religions supporting them, or simply shut the fuck up. Nobody gives a fuck what are your political stances, because this is not related with the thread, the subject (any of them) or the board itself
The US reaction is fairly underwhelming all things considered.
Reports of the misdeeds of mormons vis a vis their duties to the government actually stated that all they needed to do was to actually kick their dogs for their list of misdeeds to be complete.
The church was charged with murder, destruction of records, obstruction of federal agents, harassment (And we're talking both military harassment, and the word kind here), and slander.
And heck, they were given all the fucking leeway afterwards.
The US papers were positively falling over themselves to declare the mormons heroes in the Utah War and Bucchanan an imbecile.
>Americans should fucking finally learn how borders work
But that IS how borders work.
>user,but Clappistan tried to conquer entire Canada and did conquer third of Mexico, so what the fuck?
That was before they were Canadians, and that third didn't have very many Mexicans.
>Cuba... Phillipines
Are not Mexicans and Canadians
>Liberia
Dumping ground for all our black people, can't blame us for trying.
You obviously don't care, but you're illiterate if you think I suddenly just jumped in and yelled "SO HOW ABOUT THOSE GOD DAMN KIKES, GUYS!?" As distasteful as it is, it is relevant to current discussion.
You should be more tolerant of other opinions :^)
You can play a Paladin of piss jugs in 4e onwards user, you just have to be really really REEAAALLLY pro-piss jug and the power of piss will be yours! :^)
t. Squanto
P.s. A tribe isn't a sovereign Nation.
No matter how much NA Natives like to think they're all cool and had a bustling culture and something to lose, they didn't. The only ones to weep for are SA Natives.
>The only ones to weep for are SA Natives.
Don't forget the MesoAmericans, bruv.
>P.s. A tribe isn't a sovereign Nation.
Sure it is, as long as it's independent rather than a part of some greater political entity. Sovereignty is not something that only belongs to modern nation-states. If you're not weeping for a bunch of immigrants forcibly taking over the land of others (not talking about the current refugee wave btw), well, then I guess you're not muc for morality. Or respect for sovereignty.
>implying it'd be moral to allow that bountiful land to even remain under the stead of those savage fuckers instead of a people that could put it to proper use
The only injuns that had "sovereign land" were the SAmerindians and the MesoAmerindians; NAmerindians were barbaric cunts who did not and do not deserve that land. Build the pipeline.
>Or respect for sovereignty.
Sovereignity is only afforded respect when the sovereign polity is worthy of respect.
Doesn't matter. A man can do whatever the fuck he wants with his land. It's no one's business to go force him put it to "proper" use. I guess you ahve no respect whatsoever for private property, either. It feels like I'm arguing with a fucking communist or a religious nutjob.
"Private property" is a cuck-tier excuse for utilizing limited resources in a selfish and inefficient manner.
Land is only someone's so long as they have the capacity, directly or indirectly, to enforce that claim.
t. not a communist
t. atheist
Gas all libertarians and ancaps, you're worse than the commie pinko fuckers.
Ah, good old "Might makes right". So you're not a commie, merely barbaric by modern standards yourself.
>if I close my eyes real hard and masturbate to Molyjew and Friedman I can pretend the fundamental basis of all authority and civilization doesn't exist :^)
At least communists are honest about their philosophy.
Protip: All the stuff you like to meme about like private property, personal property, public property, or really any kind of property at all can only exist in an lawful society.
Law can only be secured through order.
Order can only be secured through peace.
Peace can only be secured through force.
Choke on it.
Yes. It is possible to do all kinds of bad shit if justice isn't backed by sufficient force. Nobody's arguing against that. Successfully committed wrongdoings don't magically become okay and morally acceptable just because they were successful, though. European immigrants settling in America were stronger than the people whose land they stole, but this does not make their actions any more justified than any other successful theft or robbery.
>he thinks there's an objective, universal morality that applies to all peoples
>implying that European colonization wasn't "wrong" insofar that it goes against current western thought and culture, a basis from which all these arguments are assumed to come from
>implying it even fucking matters because the NAmerindians were uncivilized savages and did not subscribe to western thought and morality
>implying theft and robbery are even defined outside of a system of law
>Being this much of a gentile.
Heathen wat.
>commie pretending he's not red
>wanting to not waste resources on short-sighted and overly individualistic pursuits means you're a full on yang-tier commie shitsucker
>you're either a Randian libershit, Marx worshiper, or a centrist plebe
I hate this meme so, so much.
>Zoroastrians don't really work for a holy warrior type guy
The whole zoroastrian cosmovision is about how you're a soldier in the cosmic battle between light and darkness and you have to smite the servants of the Evil Spirit. Literally a paladin player straight like the other user said.
>fedora thinks there's nothing universal about morality
>fumbles his own sentence
>and shows just how much he doesn't understand western morality
>he even needs an explicit document to define a wrongdoing
Yeah, every self-absorbed, self-fellating, special snowflake reddit atheist stereotype exhibited by a single user. Your power level is formidable.
Well, get fucked, sunshine, every "expropriation" that was ever done by every strain of communists was done in the name of "rationalisation". Stalinists were in love with that shit, for one.
Is it just me or do you shill Lord of Light whenever you possible can?
There's one user that just won't shut up about it, ever.
>implying there is
>cuck
>implying "xd lmao the individual is everything" is representative of western morality and thought
>being an autistic pedant
>implying law needs to be a written document
>implying law is applicable solely to formal states and governments
Nice adhom bruv, it really activated my almonds.
>Hitler drinks water
>ergo, everyone who drinks water is a Nazi
>Communists rationalized their actions as for the common good
>ergo, everyone who acts for the sake of the common good is a communist
N i c e
M e m e
>hashashin
>brigands
>not IRA-like freedom fighters