Elves

Eldar from 40k if we're counting Black Library material alongside the Codexes and event fluff, which while giving them a fairly unique aesthetic and general ideas behind their culture, wasn't exactly that deep.

But Path of the Eldar gave you 3 stories from their POV of several Eldar exploring different parts of their culture, be it generic civilian, part of the precognitive council, warrior elite, and care free pirate.

>Having a racial affinity for a certain type of magic makes your race mary sue's
>Having a culture that developed isolated from others, and as such has very different customs from other cultures is mary sue

>Having a central theme is inherently jerking off the theme.
>Implying the good ES lore came from Oblivion, Skyrim, and ESO
>One of the most fully-realized, nuanced parts of the ES mythos is shit lore

Enjoy your (you)s, fucking autist.

Well, yes, it was centred around the heart of the Dunmer civilisation and society. Why the fuck would they not be a prominent part of it? The main antagonist is a Dunmer. The protagonist is the reincarnation of an Chimer hero. Are you fucking retarded? It's this exploration of the Dunmer race, their values and their beliefs that made it interesting. You can call that a jerkoff if you like, but it makes you a tasteless asshole.

Don't patronize me, you fuck, I am well aware that Morrowind is where all the good TES lore is from.

IDK man Anomander Rake is a Mary Sue even by Malazan standards. We don;t really know enough abite the Tiste Liosan to say for sure and the Tiste Edur only accomplished anything because of the interference of the gods.

Its a pretty out there in the open answer but I honestly think that Tolkien did a very good job with elves. They're also the gold standard that most elves are measured against so that has to count for something.

Elves tend to be good at magic, archery, art and music. How is that "everything"?

My homebrew setting is a deliberate subversion of the whole concept of Elves and Men. Thanks to convergent evolution forced on them by horrific circumstances and direct divine intervention, they're now basically interchangeable. Until some unexpected reawakening of an ancient demon re-awakens some religious tensions near the end of the backstory.

They're also tall, beautiful and are either immortal or live much longer than anyone else.
Meanwhile humans are just okay at everything and dwarves are only really good at crafting things and being strong.

Lorwyn elves are pretty original, and a bunch of massive dicks as well.

>Meanwhile humans are just okay at everything
And yet they are the undisputed top dogs of any setting.

So Men are awesome, beautiful, and perfect Mary Sues and Elves are adaptive jack of all trades that use willpower, gumption, and creativity to win the day?

Nope, men and elves became so interchangeable that they barely even count as distinct races now, except they could never breed at all and can't get each other's diseases. Institutionalized racism was gone as a result of the Pantheon punishing those who practiced it, though they only did it because if there were one more war by the end of the last one, the alchemic weather machines that kept the world habitable would have exploded.

The strife was that an ancient demon awoke who could only give blessings to elves. Humans feel left out now, though most elves do feel at least a little bad about it now.

In D&D, elves are slightly shorter than humans.

Dwarves are good at craftsmanship and warfare while humans are good at everything.

If anything, humans are Mary sues since they have no inherent weaknesses other than their short life spans which have no bearing on gameplay.

I always see it as Elves know that they're so perfect that they can't interfere with the world, because they recognize how disastrous it is and that people should live in peace with nature and have this perfect idyllic lives. The problem is that humans are incapable of living lives like that because they are flawed, unlike elves, so they create and change and destroy. An elven kingdom might stand for 10,000 years unchanging in a perfect state but it will never grow or shrink because to do so would be wrong and defy the nature of the world. Humans on the other hand don't care and therefore expand and conquer.

Rake is the exception that proves the rule, and even then he still manages to be pretty cool.

I much preferred Nimander though. He was a very relatable character.

Fair enough, Nimander was very good as a normal joe shoved in way way over his head dealing with awful shit.

What are some settings that have elves and other fantasy races in a more rustic sort of light, but also just as believable. Not the result of some sort of divine intervention, but it's own kind of creature/being.

>What are some settings that actually did them right, with fleshed out cultures that are actually interesting and not just mary sues that are good at everything?

I love Eberron cause it actually focuses on how elves are different from humans.

Elves live a reeeeaaally long time. As such, Elves don't let shit go. Not even in death because a lot of the stuff happened in their lifetime.

So even though you have different elven cultures of the Tairandal and the Aereni, they both revolve around not letting the past go.

They do stuff that might not be the most efficient, but it was the way dad and grandad did it, and it's good enough for them- never mind that grandad was born the better half of a millennia ago, and his spirit is still hanging around and making sure they pull up my pants, go to church, and say no ma'am and yes sir.

And they win, not so much because they're best, but because they wait people out. When Tairandal wage war, they just stall/hide/wage a guerilla conflict until there's a chance to win, then they strike because they can generally afford to outlive their opponents. A victory 50 years in the making is still a victory when that great military commander is dead/assassinated/deposed.

I actually wanted to post Disciples elves too.

They were underdogs at first (in some sense, they were still strong and powerful but not as much as playable races) because of their god being dead and second game ended with this god being resurrected by his lover, goddess who become god of dead and commandeered undead armies (resurrection of their god involved undead armies marching into elf lands and killing alot of elves on way). In first expansion for that game they were started growing in power because of their god influence and become in conflict with all PC races and next expansion they become playable race and had campaign where they took revenge of other races (humans and dwarves mostly) while godes of undead started creating dark elves who were her specific undead minions, in end it turned out that their god become mad most of war wasn't neccery.

I don't thing there is any setting like that, even Tolkien.

Lets all be honest, hating on Elves as Mary Sues is just board culture. They aren't actually Mary Sues in most settings, hating on elves is just board culture. We vilify people who "wank it to elves" here on the board despite the fact that Irl most of us have probably never run into a problem like that when gaming. I know i haven't. Anti elf is just part of board culture, like dwarf wank is part of board culture. You can't really explain to them that the premise is flawed because its based solely on their opinions and cultural biases and not on objective observations, just like you can't convince a dwarf bro he is just as toxic as that "elf lover" he hates. Its just an excuse to argue at this point. A tired old meme that we beat like a dead horse.

worshiping daedra isnt a positive, you know.

the empress' dynasty ended imediately after her death because her kid got assasinated

and every race has an affinity, they just happen to have a fun one.

The dunmer are great, yeah. I think the dwemer are pretty fucking cool aswell. They almost strayed into edgy territory but since they blew themselves the fuck out it's all good.

>Its a pretty out there in the open answer but I honestly think that Tolkien did a very good job with elves.
Came here to post this.
>They're also the gold standard that most elves are measured against so that has to count for something.
No, that's a simplified misconception of Tolkien's elves.

if they were to ever bring them "back" aka they live on a plane of oblivion since they got stuck there i would be fine with it. im also fine with it staying a mystery forever.

That one atrocious series of books about the kid who finds out he's a dragonrider who needs to fight an immortal emperor, and then he becomes a quasi-elf because why not. I don't even want to look up the name.

The elves in that series were the absolute gold standard on how to do elves wrong.

Every species in TES has neat lore and bizarre associations, favored gods, demigods, champions, and history. Most of it is interesting, and a whole lot of it does not reflect positively on them at all.

Dunmer get singled out because their homeland, and subsequently their species and culture, featured centrally in what is regarded as the most Elder Scrolls of the Elder Scrolls games, and certainly one of the more interesting of their series. And, well, what the game makes of the Dunmer is pretty interesting itself on its own merits.

Sounds familiar...what was the author's name again?

Christina Potterynni?

Lord of the Rings.

What is so bad about them?

>Well, yes, it was centred around the heart of the Dunmer civilisation and society. Why the fuck would they not be a prominent part of it?

Really, that's a game's fault. Morrowind would be better if it was about humans.

>Morrowind would be better if it was about humans
There are a million games out there that are about humans, you fucking N'wahs should be glad that you can experience something new for once.

>it's another lets-use-a-phrase-we-don't-understand episode

The series is called "Inheritance" and i actually really liked it back when i read it as a kid. Got invested into the characters and shit. But yea i agree the elves where real sues in that universe.

While we're on this topic, again, I wonder:

Is that stereotype actually true that all fantasy settings always make elves some cardboard cutout whose only defining feature is that they are supposedly the goodbestest at everything?

As far as I can tell, that's really just a conception carried by people from the hobby or from outside people, but I've never actually seen a professional author make elves in this way.

Except for Markus Heitz' "Dwarves" series, but they get their shit pushed in by Darkelves very quickly, which kind of just serves as setup to make his Dark Elves even better.

I mean honestly, the threads come up so often and we all seem to agree at first that this recurring theme needs shaking up, but when we take a moment to reflect I really find it hard to point my finger on an actual occasion where this holds merit.

Most famous settings with elves are:
>LotR/Middle Earth
>Warhammer Fantasy
>Dungeons and Dragons/Forgotten Realms
>Warcraft
>Elder Scrolls

However, LotR is the only one where Elves are stated to be "more than humans", which includes the good and the bad. Also they're the prime example of "outfleshed culture".

All these other settings, although giving their elves an unreasonable arrogance and condescending demeanor, have given their elves a fairly reasonable niche where they can get defeated regularly by the other races in one-on-one combat, usually because the elves are natural spellcasters or ambushers

There was a set of books where the elves lived in huge manners and had humans as slaves, and half elves keep being born due to horny elves. And then like, a dragon finds a pregnant human and saves her baby and then raises the half elf. And then massive revolution. that was a good series.

It's one of these things that are just easy to parrot, in accordance with "elves are faggots" and "elves are sluts", because actually reading things takes some time and effort, most can't even be bothered to check out some wiki. Sometimes some anons say they are just meming, just having some fun, if you ask them what the actual source is on these claims is, but you can never know if they are just doing damage control.

by naming this thread 'elVes' you are already submitting to tolkeins version

I write up my elves like this
>Think they are superior, but their own tech and culture is built on that of races that actually MAKE shit that isn't poetry about nature and fruity wine.
>Perpetually stuck in the Bronze age because MUH ELF AESTHETICS
>Get fucked up by any war in their lands because they're so disorganised and hardly have the manpower to field a proper army
>Still like to spread stories about elven heroes spun like all elves are capable of such extreme feats, and that every other race's culture is built on elven works the greatest of which were often commissioned by non-elf artisans

But that's the opposite of mary sue, you just made them complete shit.

Awesome, I would really like to play an elf like these. What a compelling and nuanced culture you invented right there.

worse, they're jews.

to be fair, elves are sluts, just take a bath every now and then.

I like to write about a races failings before I do their merits.
>Implying I have one single elf culture in my homebrew
So far I have
>Secretive desert elves whose elders know the true secrets behind the world's most followed religion
>War-like forest elves who are fond of capturing enemy generals and bleeding them dry so that they can splash the blood on plants so the forest gains power
>PRAISE THE SUN sea-faring elves who are quite fond of gold and ritualised magic

>Swashbuckling bro elves

Please tell me they're chocolate elves.

>hurr dur my elves are different, they suck at everything

This is even worse than "mary sue" elves.

>I like to write about a races failings before I do their merits.
Oh, so you're not just uncreative faggot, you're PRETENTIOUS uncreative faggot.

Given that they mostly live in my not!India+Indochina, they'd be pretty brown.

I'm kind of a shameless fanboy of R. Scott Bakkers whole setting (I think it's called Eärwa).

Anyway, he has "non-men" who are !not-elves. Sort of presented as perfect Ken-doll creatures, immortal and tall, with olympian physiques and perfectly white teeth that fuse together.
They have some interesting things. Live in huge underground cities that are endlessly ornamented, because they have a lot of time on their hands.
They inevitably go mad, because of the weight of their memories, and the eventual forgetfulness, that leaves them forgetting faces of lovers and children, but eternally remembering truly horrendous things (Like real traumas).
Since memory is how we define "self" their only way of maintaining a "self" is through incredibly terrible acts, that traumatize them. Like betrayals, murdering people they love, etc.

In my own setting, Elves solve every problem with one thing and one thing only: Magic.

>lean crop cycles? Lol, I'll conjure a miniature sun and it'll be Summer all year
>pfft, why make boats watertight and boyant when you can make them fly ten feet above the waves?
>masonry? Ha! I'll just grow my house from a magically attuned crystal
>metallurgy? What use could this possibly have?

They're essentially glorified NEETs. If they have a problem that magic can't solve or run into some kind of anti-magic effect then they're dumber, weaker humans with pointy ears.

Witcher books kind of. They are better than humans in many aspects but not really that much better (a dedicated human can certainly reach skill level of an elf).

On the other hand they are shown to have serious problems with understanding many aspects of technology and modern discoveries, if you can use those terms in reference to fantasy-medieval world, example being more sophisticated farming technics. Because of that and their exceptionally shitty breeding rate they are practically dying out.

Many of them are also extremaly arrogant and suffering from severe "WE WUZ" syndrome making them more willing to die in a romantic suicidal battle against "worse" races than accept that the war is already over and try to adapt to the new world.

>Elves fucked over by other and be shitty
Gee, this never happen before, I applaud you for creating such non cliche setting.

>magic is easy to learn and requires no effort
this is the worst meme.

Magic is usually part of their nature as beings though, so it makes sense that it would come more naturally to elves than to other races.

>Jungle-asian, sunworshipping, blingloving, swashbuckling elves
>Possibly genki

Perfect for tasteful smut

>dwarves are only really good at crafting things and being strong
Dwarfs are good at crafting, engineering, fighting. Are stronger than human, sturdier have more experience and literally everything done by dwarfs is suppoes to be better than humans.

I'm not implying that it's easy, it's just all they know. Kind of like how a hyper-autist can count all the stars in the sky at a glance but couldn't remember how to fuckig read.

I love your artstyle,

It's not a mystery if you connect the dots in Morrowind. Dwemer are GONE, not just lost. They're a fundamental part of the Numidium.

They fit in to every stereotype of elves being impossibly beautiful, immortal, and better at everything. They're so good at swordselfship, because swordsmanship just doesn't do it justice, that they could probably pull off a

>teleports behind you
>pulls out Elven katana of infinite beauty
>Pssh, nothin' personnel, child of men

If I remember correctly, magic is the Elven language. Not as in, you use Elven as an incantation, no it's literally just the language itself is magic.

Then, to make matters worse, the author uses them as a vehicle for his own worldviews. The Dwarves are religious? Fuck them, they're stupid, and Elves make better weapons anyway. Somebody ate meat? Fuck them, they're stupid. Everyone who isn't an Elf sucks. They should just stop breathing Elven air and die in a hole, but Elves are merciful creatures who allow them to live out their pitiful existence.

You should extrapolate from their statistics first, as the first stage of what makes an elf in a game, isn't it's fluff but it's mechanical differences. From there you develop fluff around mechanics.

...

This. It's old as fuck.

> muh best at destruction magics
Pretty sure that's the altmer
> muh 3 AWESOME DEMIGODZ
The ones that surrendered to tiber septim pre-ascension?
> muh 2 GUD 4 AEDRA, we worship DEADRA u jelly?
>Worshiping the 8 chumps who fell lorkhan's ruse

I have unfortunately played with two shameless elf loving weeabos. Even when the setting did not have elves they demanded to play elves. When I did not allow it they played humans that claimed to be elves. In settings with elves they complained if elves were not respected by everybody and highly valued. The male even demanded that I change my setting so that the elf nation was the most powerful. The female was mostly annoying prefacing almost everything with "because I'm an elf" and pointing to her ears.

wild meat eating forest elves are one of my favorites

bosmer did it right

IMO, that's a good way to tell you're doing elves wrong. Both of those.

Post elf pic ladies and gents!

It's amazing how triggered a lot of people on Veeky Forums get by elves, why is that I wonder.

Elves represent superiority, grace, attractiveness, mental and physical prowess, et cetera. All things that make insecure overweight neckbeard autists(ie 99% of Veeky Forums) feel bad.

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>big tits elves

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