It is a common view among many that the Emperor would see the 40k Imperium of Man as an abomination an a perversion of...

Jaghatai was on the edge of rebellion while the Emperor was still alive. He'd see no worth in doing anything Terra says.

>Jaghatai was on the edge of rebellion while the Emperor was still alive.
Post proof of such a claim

In Aurelian he straight up calls the Emperor a tyrant, and he was always disobedient and wayward, so much so that Horus didn't bother putting any effort into turning him, considering him already halfway there.

The only reason he didn't join Mortarion was that the dude was obviously losing his shit to Chaos.

Jaghatai had almost zero loyalty reserved for the Emperor by the time of the Heresy. He took a stand against Chaos, not for anything.

Jaghatai would still probably fight for the imperium. Not as in serving the high Lords or any other authorities but he would still aid them against the horrors of the Galaxy like chaos and xenos.

If this guy came back, it would be after finding a way to bring back dear old dad and/or permanently killing Magnus, so things would get un-fucked in short order regardless.

To be honest Imperium is slowly but steadily reaching such absurd amounts of grimderp and grimdark for grimdark gods that even fucking Horus would probably try to make it a better place, just so he could destroy it again.

Imperium - Chaos conflict was reduced to fight between armless cripple and Imperium laying on deathbed, dying by grimdark cancer, and living only by life support in form of "plot"

He'd certainly fight Chaos.

IIRC he had a ton of respect for a lot of xenos, though.

Basically The Khan is the most reasonable Primarch. He saw the Emperor and his ways as fucking retarded, because they were fucking retarded, but he wasn't stupid enough to fall to Chaos because Chaos is DOUBLE TRIPLE RETARDED. He allowed psykers within reason, putting in place systems to keep them from becoming threats. He knew some xenos were worthy of more respect than a few of his own brothers, while others had to be fought by any means necessary.

Jaghatai Khan is the only Primarch with a nuanced, realistic view of the world. Unfortunately, he's surrounded by idiots and all this Literally Who friends are either dead or ruling horrifying daemon worlds, because they didn't have a fraction of the Khan's sense.

>Russ
>Unfucking anything
Dear god no. Russ coming back would be the worst. Seriously he's not an empire builder.

If the Primarchs returned and essentially disowned the High Lords and Ecclesiarchy, the resulting civil war could be pretty cool.

Some space marine chapters would actually side with the High Lords and co - pic related.

We'd probably see Legions 2.0 versus a whole heap of guard, sororitas, cultists and a few chapters who get their numbers boosted.

Oh I highly doubt that. The Khan is all about freedom so the modern Imperium would most likely sicken him. However I doubt he would take much of a stand against it as long at it didnt try to impose it's authority on him

So it would be all First and Second founding plus chapters with strong ties to their progenitors (The Unforgiven, Ultramar chapters, and Blood Angel successors) vs. The rest of the Imperium? That would be a fun grudge match for sure

Until the lion gives him two for flinching and he's out for 10,000 more years

So...who will the Blood Ravens side with? Or will they wait it out so that they can "rescue" "abandoned" "holy" artifacts".

>So...who will the Blood Ravens side with?
Magnus.

fucking kek

>Jaghatai had almost zero loyalty reserved for the Emperor by the time of the Heresy.
Except for that entire thing where he admitted that it would be really EASY to join Horus and be treated like a pampered favorite, but his loyalty was to the oaths he had sworn to the Emperor.

Fuck off with this, the Khan was loyal as fuck. It's an entirely more meaningful brand of loyalty to admit that the dark side is extremely tempting and still stay loyal, rather than never question it.

>Some space marine chapters would actually side with the High Lords and co - pic related.
I imagine the quantity of space marine chapters who'd side with the High Lords over a Primarch would number, in a generous estimate, one or two dozen.

>I imagine the quantity of space marine chapters who'd side with the High Lords over a Primarch would number, in a generous estimate, a speedbump.

FTFY

What would Corvus do?

Cry.

As with the Emperor, the way the Primarchs who died/disappeared early would feel about the Imperium is unknowable. With those who left later, as with Vulkan (and maybe Dorn/Guilliman), they'd potentially already seen the spread of the Imperial Cult and, given that they'd only learned the true nature of the Warp during the Heresy, it's possible that they'd already changed their minds.

As far as the organisation/leadership of the Imperium goes, they'd all have changes to make and would be some of the few figures anybody was likely to listen to.

I don't think the Emperor would be pleased, necessarily, but he was a pragmatist in life and didn't start the Great Crusade from a position he'd created or considered ideal; he seized the opportunity as the Warp became calmer and took control of first Terra, then the Sol system, and so on. He'd been planning for a long time, but whether he was planning for the birth of Slaanesh is debatable. Possibly he knew the Warp would be calmer; possibly he wanted to work on his Webway project if it were not calmer, but took the opportunity to unite Humanity more quickly. If that's the case, there's no reason to assume - his personal feelings aside - that he wouldn't exploit the power of the Imperial Cult to unite Humanity against its enemies. In fact, there's no real reason to disbelieve that he doesn't send his saints to fight on battlefields, or send visions of the future to his faithful, or empower the Shield of Faith.

Some of the Primarchs - like Sanguinius - had a devotional-like approach to their work; after damning a world to extermination for refusing Compliance, he notifies the people they're going to be massacred brutally but admits he and his Legion will weep. He's often seen as one of the saner Primarchs but that's bordering on anything Batman or Evil Priest would do/say. Who's to know how a mind like that would react to the modern Imperium?

An awful lot of them don't know who their primarch was, and that seems to be deliberate. Second Founding and sometimes later, the way the Forge World books tell it, seem to be Blackshields or wayward Chapters of traitor legions who sided with the Emperor, maybe even Chapters of loyalist legions who took no side but their own, or disparate groups from multiple legions, even.

The Charcaradons, for example, were founded by an exiled portion of the Raven Guard and the Blackshields that they became explicitly denounced both the Emperor and Horus, and may have carved out an empire of their own beyond the Imperium's borders. There's no way to know how they'd react to the Emperor's return; they seemed only to respect power when those who held it could keep it.

>goes to the fridge
>jar after jar of malformed clones

I think after the heresy when they get full knowledge that religion actually weakened the Chaos gods, the Emperor would willingly accept it. Religion is the only major thing that's changed since his rule, so he'd probably be willing to allow worship.

The fuck are you smoking? Religion actively strengthens the warp because it's emotionally based. That was literally the entire point of the imperial truth during the great crusade.

> which could it no way have a place in the new Imperium led by a pragmatic like Gulliman

The Ecclesiarchy's enforcement in worship of the Emperor is one of the few things keeping the Imperium together. I think Guilliman would recognize that dismantling it would be a bad idea.

This would essentially lead to a new schism with ultramar and the ultramarine successors becoming their own eastern Roman empire just like in all those Veeky Forums what ifs

I kinda want to see it happen in official lore

No, that's how the Emperor *thought* it worked, and him misinterpreting it along those lines is what led to the Horus Heresy in the first place via Lorgar's fall.

The Warp is run by pure EMOTION, any sort of "faith" in it is purely circumstantial. In fact, to the contrary, it's repeated time and time again over the HH books that one of the most effective weapons against the Warp is faith in the Emperor and psychic abilities, and guess what the two things were which the Imperium outlawed?

He'd have his own cliff notes to interject though and essentially cause a reformation war

This is arguably because the Emperor has become half warpgod/demon in his own right after being interred on the throne.

The Emperor was fedora after generations of trying religion and finding it didn't work

He wanted humans to be guided by wisdom and knowledge but still wanted to keep them ignorant, THAT was the problem. He kept chaos and the true nature of things on the down low out of fear of how people would react

What if the Primarch join the Xenos?

That's what happened to the two stricken from the record. Russ and the wolves killed them

>Russ and the wolves killed them
[Lack of source intensifies]

Horus Heresy novels. One of the reasons I hate the new lore.

Kek post one source I dare you. Wolf Lord even has Russ saying he wasnt sure that primarchs could die until Magnus did(which he was wrong about).

wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Two_unknown_legions

Under Other Information

The First Heretic, Deliverance Lost, Prosperous Burns, The Outcast Dead, A Thousand Sons, Fear to Tread, Betrayel, Villain Lives, and The unremembered Empire

>wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Two_unknown_legions
Yeah so no source like I said.

>The First Heretic, Deliverance Lost, Prosperous Burns, The Outcast Dead, A Thousand Sons, Fear to Tread, Betrayel, Villain Lives, and The unremembered Empire

But that dont say that bro. Did you even read your own link?

It is played out explicitly and repeatedly wolves were used to kill the lost legions and they were purged from records. The reasons for this are left vague and unexplained.

POST A SOURCE

>the Inquisition
The Inquisition is splintered into tons of factions. They'd probably have members on each side.

>the Ecclesiarchy
This is the BIG roadblock. The Imperial Cult is fundamentally opposed to the Emperor's Imperial Truth. That conflict led to the Emperor's admonishment of Lorgar and kickstarted the Horus Heresy.

The First Heretic
The First Heretic (Novel) sheds more light on the subject of the two unknown Primarchs:

The Lost Primarchs were erased from Imperial records at least 43 years prior to the events of Isstvan V, as only eighteen Legions are referenced during the events at Monarchia. This could be a precursor to the Horus Heresy, the belligerents serving the chaos gods. However, this seems unlikely as the primarchs would be aware of chaos, yet are easily seduced by it.[18]
It is implied that the Emperor personally cast aside the two lost Primarchs: "I fear the Emperor will break the Word Bearers - and break me. We would be cast alongside the brothers we no longer speak of."[18b]
Throughout the remainder of the Great Crusade, the remaining Primarchs swore an oath not to even talk about the lost Primarchs.[18b]
The lost Primarchs/Legions are referred to as 'the forgotten and the purged'. This could simply be a way of describing traitors, or they are references to the individual legions (i.e.-one legion "the forgotten" and the other "the purged")[18b]
Magnus the Red confirms that the Emperor personally purged the two lost Primarchs/Legions from history.[18b]
During the vision of the Gal Vorbak, the eleventh Primarch is referenced as still being innocent and pure prior to the scattering of the Primarchs. This implies that the eleventh Primarch either becomes corrupted or is guilty of some degree of transgression against the Emperor/Imperium, or both. One of the Gal Vorbak also says that killing the eleventh Primarch in the past would, "save them a lot of trouble", which could be interpreted as saying the Word Bearers had some connection with "dealing" with the legion.[18c]
Both lost Legions are said to have been expunged from Imperial records for 'good reason'. They are said to have in some way acted shamefully.[18d]
18: The First Heretic (Novel) by Aaron Dembski-Bowden
18a: pgs. 9, 45.
18b: Chapter 10.
18c: pgs. 295.
18d: pgs. 296

Cont

That doesnt mention Russ at all.

Infact this
>Magnus the Red confirms that the Emperor personally purged the two lost Primarchs/Legions from history.[18b]
Directly contradicts your claim.

The Horus Heresy Book Two - Massacre
A timeline in The Horus Heresy Book Two - Massacre lists two events as , with the Space Wolves Legion listed as taking part, in 965 and 969.M30.[27] These could be the destruction of the two unknown legions at the hands of the Wolves.

However, the dialogue between Lorgar and Magnus in Chapter 10 of The First Heretic, which takes place no more than seven months after the razing of Monarchia (listed in that timeline at 964.M30), infers that the unknown legions had been stricken from the records for some time. If both sources are correct, this would infer that the legions were still active in some fashion before the Wolves destroyed them.

Prospero Burns
In the novel Prospero Burns, on an assault run into a new war zone, a group of Space Wolves were growling over the announcement of Horus as Warmaster. When asked if they were angry over the announcement, and whether they thought that Leman Russ should have been given leadership, the Rune Priest, leading the pack, said that they were really just angry that they could not be present for the announcement, since this was the last time the Emperor would fight with his Legions. He went on to explain that all the Primarchs, and their legions, were created with a purpose or "Wyrd". One was destined to be the Emperor's statesman, one to be his storm trooper, one to lead his armies, and so on. Horus was always destined to be Warmaster, the priest said. When the Rune Priest was asked what Leman Russ's wyrd was, the priest stated simply "He is the Emperor's executioner". This gives the reason why it was the Space Wolves that were sent to destroy the Thousand Sons.
In a conversation, near the end of the novel, Leman Russ discussed the coming destruction of the Thousand Sons legion. When asked if he was concerned over the fact that Space Marines were fighting other Space Marines, he commented that this was not the first time the Wolves had been called on to perform this task. This might be a reference to the possible destruction of the Legion II and/or XI. However, Leman Russ could be referring to when he and his legion battled the World Eaters during the Great Crusade, or when he fought against Lion 'el Johnson and the Dark Angels.
All of these events happen just prior to Horus openly turning against the Emperor. This seems to corroborate that both the II and XI legions had been destroyed or expunged prior to the start of the Horus Heresy, and as such, neither one of these legions took part in the events of the heresy itself.

Given that the Ravens managed to pull a heist on Terra itself, they could be a pretty big game changer for anyone going after the High Lords.

Hell, I could see the Sororitas having division of their own. Some siding with the Ecclesiarchy, others seeing the actual sons of the Emperor as being the true path.

So there's no evidence that Russ did as you claimed at all.

Okay, has this part of the law just gone out of date and I never realized?

I distinctly recall reading that the reason why faith = power in the warp is because the Warp is based on pure mental energy. When you believe in something strongly enough, consciously or not, you literally begin to reshape the Warp around you. If you can think it hard enough, it becomes reality, at least so long as you can continue to sustain it.

Faith isn't so much a power source as it is a focusing lens. When you believe in something, you focus your willpower and your emotional energy - the exact same things that the Warp is fundamentally made of.

There's even a novel where a Navigator sent into the Eye of Terror (long story) is assured by an experienced renegade that he doesn't need the Astronomicon, nor does he need to pray to the Dark Gods; if he can simply *believe* in successfully reaching his destination strongly enough, the Warp will reshape itself around the ship and take them there.

And sure enough, that's what happens.

So, what that means is that it's not "the Emperor's Divinity!" that's acting as bane to daemons. It's the fact that the Imperials are focusing all off their willpower on making the daemons come undone, using their emotions to fuel their willpower, and so subconsciously dissolving the warp-matter of which a daemon's body is made.

tldr? Faith is a focusing lens for your lasgun, willpower is the battery pack.

True for Fulgrim.
Much less so for Magnus. He was forced into a extremely shitty situation.
>break the edict and warn dad, possibly preventing the death of billions
>do not. Let billions die so you can claim being in the right about the edict.

Still Khan a best loyal Primarch.

How many of the Primarchs actually followed the Imperial Truth to the level of autism the Emperor expected? Lorgar obviously didn't, and then you look at Sanguinius being a literal divine angel and knowing it, Magnus making deals with warp gods from the start, and Russ, Vulkan and Khan basically following their homeworlds' religious traditions. And then as other anons have said, after the heresy the existence of the supernatural became pretty obvious.

Some of the Primarchs coming back wouldn't necessarily be pissed off about the Imperial Cult, as much as about the rampant corruption and bureaucracy killing the Imperium from within.

>An awful lot of them don't know who their primarch was, and that seems to be deliberate.

Never thought about it that way. I know some chapters like the Blood Ravens erased their history of their primarchs going traitor, so that future generations wouldn't get funny ideas. But that actually makes sense that a lot of the newer chapters don't know their primogenitor: the High Lords did this so that if their Primarch ever returned and went rogue, their ancestor worship wouldn't cause them to join the rebellion.

This, effectively. The warp is the realm of belief. Enough will and belief reshapes it to such whims.

It seems clear now the the Emperor was entirely wrong about the way the warp worked. His opinion on things contrasted against the way we know they work in 40k show this. You have it right.

take your shitty fanon and gtfo

Speculation is fanon? Fuck off sperg.