I liked it

What, how was it implied?

The only reason people bitch about is that the Emp says to one of his Custodes that he really doesn't consider the Primarchs his sons. This is very vague as it is and will probably be revealed to be a lie anyway.

I found Arkhan Land and that one Blood Angel to be unnecessary, but that's just a small quibble

I liked that little bits where they emphasized the custodes inhuman features

Master of Mankind; more like Custodes Do Stuff And Kick Ass, amirite?

The Good:
>The Emperor's stories to his Tribune
>Arkhan Land
>Kane shooting his praying minions
>The Knight character. Her arc felt needless at first but she was p badass ultimately
>Custodes in general
>Diocletian, Custodes Dread, the Blood Angel, and that chick Knight all teaming up against a Drach'nyen-possessed Mechanicum mini-titan.
>That Titan Princeps taking on a Chaos Warlord and Warhound at once
>Chaos Daemons that can be a bit spooky ("WHEN WILL THE SUN RISE")
>The Emperor fighting once he actually appears (in b4 "psssh" memes)

The Bad:
>A lot of stuff felt like filler, particularly the bits about Servitors getting their shit wrecked and the Archimandrite character in general
>Not enough Emperor to really be called "Master of Mankind". He only appears personally in the final 2 chapters outside of flashbacks and visions he gives his Tribune.
>Valdor only appears for a page, Jenetta Krole barely appears as well. Both substituted by Ra/Diocletian and Kaeria respectively
>No Malcador scenes with the Emperor which I always find fascinating
>Drach'nyen felt like a needless insert

The Ugly:
>How the Emperor thinks of his Primarchs as mere specimens. Could be rectified later on

Official judgement, it has been placed accordingly

The webway gate has a small portion of it, instead of leasing to daemon country, leads to the black library. Two of the stripper companions find this out and one of them says that where Kitten must've been spending all of his time instead of getting lubed for the past 10,000 years.

Oh that Black library. I was thinking about the one in our reality

>Drach'nyen felt like a needless insert
Drach'nyen itself feels like a needless insert into the 40k itself.

It's super ancient Demon that has an edgy backstory of springing from Humanity's first sin/murder, that only wants to destroy humanity and is so super cool that the Big E himself was scared of him and couldn't kill him. So gets Made into a special magic Mcguffin Demon sword that Just happens to be discovered and used by the Poster boy of Chaos himself, Abbadon, and it's basically the sole reason Abby's power level is above the Emprah's. It's like something out of an Edgy, teen, Fanfiction backstory.

I'm still waiting for the day when Abaddon gets gang raped by Ultrasmurfs and Grey Knights with SoB blood lube now that Matt Ward is working at GW again.

>implying he won't get rekt in 1v1 against Him- Cato Sicarius

Best summary of the book I've seen.

Add "fucking Horus and fucking Lorgar" to that and it's a summary of the entire Horus Heresy.
Srsly fuck those three.

lol

>Alternatively, you can read into the various exchanges that Emps has with different people and conclude that his words and views change depending on who he is interacting with (like his appearance).
That gives me this interesting idea, that the Emperor has always been nothing but a reflection of Humanity.
I have no idea where to go with this random thought, but it seems interesting to me at the moment. I'll have to think about it more, see if it goes somewhere worthwhile.

>That gives me this interesting idea, that the Emperor has always been nothing but a reflection of Humanity.
Pretty much it.
IIRC the sections where Emps refers to the Primarchs by their numbers happen when He is talking to his tribune, whom already thinks they were a mistake and openly mocks a World Eater by reminding him how Angron was the only one to not conquer his own world, while Arkhan Land sees him as the Omnissiah and the ultimate scientist, labcoat and all.

pdf?

Actually, going by what LG said. The Emperor indeed doesn't care about the Primarchs. So the final fight will be rewritten since the Emperor wouldn't have any second thoughts about killing Horus.

Anyone else hate how BL just focuses on gay 30k/Horus Heresy shit recently?

Does it make that much money?

So it's okay for Archaon to have a special super sword known as the "Slayer of Kings" which made him cleave daemons and gods alike but it's not okay for Abaddon to get a similar sword?

Why are you so racist?

What? it's one novel per month. Most of the releases are 40K.

Once AoS season 2 starts, then HH will be buried more by AoS content.

More or less. Space marines are big sellers.

shame the novels mostly suck ass

Uh, I think that wasn't ok either.
Maybe the daemon of murder cannot be murdered, only contained?

Last Space Marine book id call good was this one.

but its all just short stories which in reality I think BL really shines in.

Double dubs speaks the truth the book has a story about Kroot eating tyranids then turning into fucking Krootnids and a space marine using the acid spit.

I find it funny Ultramarines get all this shit but in the end they actually had a solid book series in the end.

It's Not, but Archaon has lost it and gone full Anime Protagonist anyways, so the edgelord sword is the least of his is the least of my concerns.

What happened to Ciaphas Cain? I know Mitchell barely put work in them and copied shit but they were entertaining reads. We didnt even get an eldar story atleast

I feel like this is a problem. Why is it always just those three?
Why not Fuck Mortarion or Fuck Curze?
I mean sure there all screw up who fucked the imperium but I feel the other traitor primarchs need to have landed blows as brutal as Magnus' plan.

What is the basis of the rankings? For example, what makes Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels so bad? And Reflection Crack'd is just weird, but I wouldn't say it's awful. But it's mostly because I love watching Emperor's Children be catty assholes to each other.

Archaon is covered with magical items including his armor & horse.

So is Abaddon. However, he traded some to the traitor Primarchs.

>Why not Fuck Mortarion or Fuck Curze?
Why not fuck you?
Horus "killed" the Emperor
Magnus ruined the webway project
Lorgar got all that shit started in the first place.

What did Mortarion do besides being unlikeable, or Curze do besides being batshit insane? They could have been easily dealt with.

This. Remove Lorgar, and Kurze is just a pest that needs to be dealt with, Angron's just a rabid dog that needs to be kept on a tight leash until it dies, and Mortarion and Perturabo will piss and moan but they'll still do their jobs.

I stopped reading the horus heresy but this sounds retarded

what went wrong?

It took larger than life characters and turned them into pissy bags of emotions and pettiness.

Warhammer 30k: Soap Opera edition

The horus heresy should have remained as a prologue to 40k and not this shit

I like the short stories, however. My two favourites as of yet are the one depicting Angron as something more beyond Rage McAngrypants (Lord of the Red Sands), and the one about Mortarion's descent into corruption (Daemonology).

Anything bigger than a short story and they usually fuck up something.

>Perturabo
>Moaning
He was simply bitter. If anything he was one of the most loyal of the Emperors children despite being put through the worst hardships. Had the Horus Heresy never happened Perturabo would've never turned traitor. If anything the "loyalist" Primarchs like Guilliman or Sanguinius would've eventually gone rogue.

>He was simply bitter. If anything he was one of the most loyal of the Emperors children despite being put through the worst hardships. Had the Horus Heresy never happened Perturabo would've never turned traitor.
That's what I said, yeah. He hated his job, but delete Lorgar and Perty would've kept on shoveling shit.

Emps fucked Fourth but I have mad respect for him.

>If anything the "loyalist" Primarchs like Guilliman or Sanguinius would've eventually gone rogue.
Nigga wat.

>but I feel the other traitor primarchs need to have landed blows as brutal as Magnus' plan.
I'm so confused by this what plan?

>If anything the "loyalist" Primarchs like Guilliman or Sanguinius would've eventually gone rogue.
Naaah. It would have been Curze, whom was already going to be censured when the Heresy exploded.
But yeah, Mortarion's and Perturabo's reason for treachery were mostly because they were more loyal to Horus than to the Emperor. I mean, Mortarion's only friends among his brothers were Horus and Curze, and he had already betrayed his foster father (a necromancer, but still) before joining the Emperor.

A lot of the loyalist Primarchs look like they had ulterior motives. Guilliman for example was focused on making his own empire and there's the whole fiasco with Imperium Secundus and what that might suggest. There's also a good chance Sanguinius would've gone traitor because of his desire to hide the red thirst even from the emperor.

Perturabo just seems more like Ferrus Manus in that he would follow the emperors orders no matter what.

Okay, that's awesome.

This triggers the neckbeard.

I fucking cant wait for this shit series to end

THIS.

It should have remained a fucking encyclopedia article that repeatedly said, "There were fuck ups of escalating magnitude by everyone. And Chaos was there."

I did NOT want to know that all this is the result of man-babies not having the stones to shoulder an inconvenience that doesn't even compare to what they've been shouldering for fucking decades of crusading. From all their origins they went through the harshest shit EVER; nothing leading up to or during the Heresy compared to what they suffered before the Emperor found them again.

How can these people, who were given such greater purpose, fuck up that hard. I mean you don't even need Chaos whispering bullshit into their ears.

I was satisfied with the general impression before all this that Chaos was pervasive - it was magical, supernaturally corrupting. Instead, we are told the strongest individuals just mentally snapped for the shittiest of reasons.

If the retards at the Black Library had any fucking sense at all they would only have given one Primarch any character development and told the story solely from his perspective. Just pick one, one guy who would have been our fly on the wall. To me, that person should have been Dorn - the man coordinating the defense of Sol and Terra. Every other Primarch should have just been a name-drop for Dorn just like it was in the old rulebooks that discussed the Heresy. Russ is held up, send for the Khan, Guilliman is besieged, Manus is dead, etc etc.

Imperium Secundus started as a thought experiment that became something damn near necessary, iirc. If you want to punish Robby for thoughtcrime, okay, but I don't see heresy there.

Angel Boy... Yeah, I could see him eventually being the third "lost" primarch if there's been no HH.

Probably the most retarded thing I've read all night

Let us remember Sanguinius was going to fall willingly if it meant it'd save his sons, and only because that apothecary took the fall on his stead he was saved from becoming THE literal Blood Angel.

or mobi?

It's fine if The Emperor has no hesitation to killing Horus and did not weep for Sanguinus.

The story went that he hesitated and had to thrust aside his compassion to kill him. That is how the STORY of the Emperor goes. If the reality is otherwise the only way to write that properly is that the only way to unify the Imperium and raise him to godhood is to fabricate a reputation of the man worthy of legend.

If they don't have a like 100-page follow-up describing how they create this ridiculous fiction that forms the basis of the Imperial Cult then we will have wasted all our fucking time. In fact, the book of the final battle should just start with the Emperor's last fight. The entire rest should be what happens after.

That's all we need. That is the only thing this series ever needed to provide a detailed look at the inner workings on how the chains were forged that will leash humanity for the next ten thousand years. The Golden Throne, the logistics of the Black Ships feeding the Astronomicon, the establishment of the Inquisition, retaking Mars, the Adeptus Astartes losing much of their autonomy.

They're just going to fuck it all up. They're going to write a fucking story with explosions and shit instead of giving us the sweet boring bureaucratic government-building details that their autistic and most important part of their fanbase wants.

The Heresy was just a fucking sideshow. The real interesting shit is how they clean house.

I like that notion. He had at least as much charisma as Horus, so he might've gotten a Heresy of his own.

Then again, being a champion of Khorne as opposed to all four tends to impair one's oratory skills...

BL is far too up its own anus to ever consider actually accomplishing the original goal of this series (Showing how 40k came to be).

Muh Shakespearean tragedy, muh drama

I got your back.

See how does ADB write something as good as this but then put all this dumb shit into Master of Mankind? I don't understand why his writing is always a crap shoot as to whether it will be great or not

Simple.
The longer his writing the more opportunities he has to introduce his daddy-issues.
I don't know why he hasn't written anything about Mortarion yet, considering he hated all his paternal figures and betrayed them both.
Unless Daemonology was written by him. Damn that's a good one.

>Instead, we are told the strongest individuals just mentally snapped for the shittiest of reasons.
Fulgrim's fall has always bothered me the most. He picked up the wrong sword? Thats it? We have Logan striking down Magnus with a Khornate axe yet a Prmiarch falls just like that?

>If they don't have a like 100-page follow-up describing how they create this ridiculous fiction that forms the basis of the Imperial Cult then we will have wasted all our fucking time.
They sorta did that though. Lorgar started it by writing the Lectitio Divinitatus which said the Emperor was a god, then it snowballed from there when Chaos reared it's head, because when there's demons and shit running around, it's easy to say the shiny guy who stops them all is a god.

First 4 books were great.

I don't understand why they don't fucking understand.

I don't give three shits about the Primarchs and their personal issues. Their fall should have been as curt as the gods of Valhalla going to war against each other. It simply happened.

Nobody actually cares about the people who were Genghis Khan or Alexander. They care about the world they left in their wake, about the good they destroyed - that is the tragedy.

I have wasted too much of my love on this universe. It's just so fucking good but they're wasting it. Wasting it on FEELINGS. All I want is my goddamn Warhammer history text book.

How many Horus Heresy books are we up to now? 40+? Forty fucking books and we have gotten NOTHING accomplished that makes this universe richer. It's just faggots stabbing other faggots in the back retelling the stories of Jesus, Roman emperors, and "we want the Game of Thrones audience" pandering. They're just writing a bible or because people have absolute shit taste. Because all they want is to read the fucking stories of the bible again and again and again. The most interesting shit happens in the first six days of the bible but that chunk only takes up the first ten pages.

Only point i would argue would be that they all had it the hardest before or to be more specific Roboute. From what i understand he was one of the first Primarchs found his life before the crusade was rather easy.

...

Sounds shifty. I never was so autistic that I took the old index astartes blurbs as the gospel so I've Unironically enjoyed most of the series

>Lectitio Divinitatus
What we need is the Lectitio Divinitatus actually written out, in its entirety. And with red ink the annotations by some unnamed editor, whom would define the Imperium for the next thousands of years.

Just saying the Lectitio Divinitatus exists is not enough. What I want is the minutes of the meeting where they take the book and revise it. Where they all agree that they're doing some of the most evil shit in the world for the sake of humanity's survival. I want a recreation of whatever happened in some dark room of the Catholic church where people revise the gospels.

>It's like something out of an Edgy, teen, Fanfiction backstory.

That describes everything in 40k.

the inferiority complex is real

So does anyone have a link to the mp3?

>For example, what makes Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels so bad?

They're just really shit books with incredibly boring protagonists, user. And that's coming from a Dark Angels player.

As someone who likes ADB, master of mankind was okay, 4/5.

Its hilarious that the Emperor was only pretending to be father to the Primarchs. It explains some of his mess ups with them.

Amen, brother.

>lorgar writes the imperial creed while serving chaos in order to slowly corrupt the imperium

You read it here first.

Man, Malcador had to put up with so much shit.

>No Malcador scenes with the Emperor which I always find fascinating

As someone who hasn't read it yet, is Malcador in the book at all?

The Primarchs are well written, for human warlords.
The Primarchs are poorly written for super-beings.
No author could write super-beings well.

I imagine shit like is making established authors leery of working for BL.

Malcador was the man who kept humanity together. The emps was completely consumed by plans for the future. The Primarchs were all nursing their private butthurts. Meanwhile, this exceptionally old dude managed to run the council of Terra, form the administratum, and still find time to be master of assassins and collect old art at the same time.

Dude was a class act in a universe of manchildren.

>Retconing William King's fluff
FUCK

That shit forms the basis of everything I know about the Heresy. What sick motherfucker would do anything other than expand on that foundation. It is the fucking word of god. It is still fucking solid because the new shit has no goddamn direction.

What the fuck are they even going to retcon? The Sky Fortress? The siege? Khan taking the Eternity Space Port? That Horus drops the shields willingly? That the Emperor teleports in with Dorn and Sanguinus?

There's nothing to fucking retcon.

This was the first HH book that I read because the empra is in it. It was fairly shitty as far as books go, one dimensional characters and no plot line, the story line didn't reveal anything we did not already know. Took me two hours while skipping the boring sections.

I don't understand why neckbeards are chimping out about Emps showing no feelings for the Primarchs. At this time Emps is having severe regrets for even making the fuckers in the first place. They were supposed to be a tool to conquer the Galaxy and they fucked everything up. He laments the fact that he made 20 godling faggots who go around thinking they are superior to everyone else and lust for glory. Emperor doesn't give a fuck about glory or prestige or human attachments at this point he just wants to save humanity.

He seemed really defeated and broken in the epilogue after the webway is destroyed. He basically said that humanity is fucked now good job faggots no hope left anymore I might as well die fighting Horus now because everything is so shit

No Fucking for Fulgrim, though.

Oh he wishes. But Ferrus is like Uncle Ben or Batman's parents. He always dies

I thought their flaws were because despite all their enhancements they were still pretty human?

kek. I am entertained and interested by most HH books and this much trigger the lore purists bad, so BASED LAURIE.

He appears along with Valdor, Dorn, and the Fabricator-Locum at a war meeting. He says like 3 things then leaves.

Veeky Forums autists like to complain HARD but there haven't been many legitimate "retcons" from the HH series. i.e. things that contradict a specific piece of the old lore directly.

Right now, the only ones I can think of are:

>Pious being a Perpetual (Perpetuals themselves aren't a retcon btw)
>Horus got the powers to fight the Emperor on Molech instead of just having the Chaos Gods channel it into him
>The Emperor got the ability to create the Primarchs from a bargain with Chaos
>Fulgrim and Angron becoming Daemon Princes during the Heresy as opposed to after

"The Emperor didn't care about the Primarchs" etc is subjective and too vague to be considered one a proper one yet

Anywhere a poorfag could read this for free?

What if I just hate HH

Alpharius.

>i.e. things that contradict a specific piece of the old lore directly
many sequences of events have been changed or removed entirely

Pretty much everything about the battle of tallarn was retconned, for example. The war in Ultramar was again, entirely different. Nikaea's contents were changed rather explicitly.. and the role of the space wolves in the heresy has undergone a complete reversal.

There a bunch of stuff, but most people aren't "that" familiar with the old (like, 80's-90's) fluff so they merely poke holes in the abysmal writing.

It's not really about retcons.

The problem with the whole Horus Heresy series is that they're touching on content that merits only the most minimal expansion - and the only expansion that could be justified were more encyclopedia articles. If by the end of all this they spend minimal effort describing what made the 40K world as we know it today due to events in 30K, then the effort was meaningless.

Characterizing major figures and introducing new insignificant ones and basically explicitly saying this was all a result of human weakness or complete fuck-ups is something that could be done when there was nothing else to do.

See:

It's true though