What is the most shitty, overpriced, and downright unusable unit for each codex?

Warp Talons actually are significantly less worse if you run them in a Raptor Talon. They can charge when arriving out of Deep Strike (though only a Disordered one, but even that is more than enough to tie up a unit from shooting).

Strangely, I've had nothing but good things to say about my Defiler. It pretty much always manages to either earn its points back every game or at minimum be a major thorn in my opponents side and force him to devote an ungodly amount of firepower to killing it.

Dear god, Warp Talons are shit.
Total shame, as it's a cool concept for a unit (LIGHTNING CLAW JET PACKSSS!), but they really need something better than the chance to blind an enemy when they deepstrike. Maybe just a points cut would do it.
Also, I've always been underwhelmed by Berzerkers in the new 'dex. Basic CSM with Mark of Khorne/maybe that Khorne standard do the job better without costing something like 20pts a head. Don't have my 'dex handy, but don't Berzerkers only have 1 Attack base now?

RAPTOR TALON
A
P
T
O
R
T
A
L
O
N

make it a heavy vehicle and make heavy vehicles ignore ordnance firing limitations
would also fix russes and monoliths

Yep, only 1 attack base. They don't even get chainaxes base. Only thing they have going for them is WS5

Fucking this, wtf is wrong with gee-dubuya? How can they be so out of touch with the balance problems of a game they regularly play?

they dont play it
thats the whole fucking problem

I've found the defiler works pretty well as a distraction. Look at that massive thing over there! Shoot at that and not the squad of Possessed running up the board to claw some guts out.

for Tau, probably still Vespid. Ld 6 means you have to to take the Sgt, and when they're already 18ppm the 28ppm Strain Leader feels pretty shitty. they're still only 4+, T3, no FNP so if you lose that sgt the unit is as good as gone as they run off the table. stealth (ruins) can help but not all terrain is a ruin; desu it's kind of weird that GW still makes terrain-specific rules like that.

basically 18ppm for something that's still only 4+, medium/short range, requires support to do damage, and mainly just runs from fights since it's only WS3 despite being I6 (but has H&R so it basically always can get away) just feels like too much when you can do more with a more durable unit for roughly the same points by taking crisis suits.

honestly, though, if they were assault 2 they're be really good, probably too good. Tau don't exactly need the help, so it's whatever.

It works great as a distraction, the problem is that it is a 200pt distraction with 12 armor. The 4 HP helps somewhat but not when it just gets exploded by a lascannon before it can do anything. For just 30 points more I could get a land raider with 14 all around, troop capacity (with assault vehicle special rule!), and somewhat less schizophrenic armament.

>stealth (ruins) can help but not all terrain is a ruin

Stop playing on shit boards. Who the fuck would want to play on a board with only trees or a couple hills?

Ordinance is pretty nice since the vehicle basically gets tank hunter, which is nice since you'll usually stay still and only fire one gun with ordinance anyways, the only exception being the leman Russ, making taking other weapons on an ordinance variant worthless unless you wanna try and drown infantry in a hail of 9 snap shot heavy bolter shells (hint, you don't)

Worst guard unit is kinda a weird one, since it really depends on the list you run

>tech priest is shit for blobs
>priest is shit for parking lot

I'm sure there's a really shitty one I'm forgetting but Rough riders are pretty bad and tend to die before ever getting their points back

With forge world included the Aquila lander is not even supposed to be used seriously, 110 points for a flying heavy bolter is retarded

Nobz, cost 18 points which is about 3 boyz. Without upgrades they are trash and the only thing good about them is they have 2 wounds default.

Nobz should come stock with a 5+ FNP but they would still suck

>anyone else here part of the "I deleted an entire nob squad with a single large blast of instant death" club?

Are we talking Skyclaws with backpacks, or bikers? Bikers can be really god damn useful.

>why would want to play on a flat board with no terrain?

Have you ever heard of the greater good friend?

Those are called Swiftclaws and are a great unit.

Especially in HoR Kil Team.

I stopped years ago.

>TFW it doesn't stop the things you liked about 40K. And it doesn't make it hurt less to see those things become less relevant/effective/just forgotten.

I found myself attracted to the base rifleman models of nearly every faction, but every new codex and ruleset made convntional infantry less useful save in groups of 150+.

I really really like lasguns and pulse rifles. and dire avengers.

that's not what I mean. you can have a lot of terrain without it being a ruin; tank traps, craters, walls, etc are 5+ or 4+ but are not technically ruins

lol im saying GWs balance is shit because they dont even play 40k hence why everything is literally all over the place

>tank traps, craters

That's shit terrain.

> walls

If it's not a ruin what the fuck is it. Walls aren't area terrain.

Ah, thanks for the unit name. I haven't played my Wolves in years.

I still have 5 Skyclaws kicking about somewhere. I used to take them against my better judgement as a small strike team, but they never performed well enough to justify the cost and slot. Kinda disappointing.

dire avengers are still good, you can make a good eldar army out of basically anything in that codex. if anything the formation and detachment options in the 7th ed eldar book made dire avengers way the hell better.

fire warriors are still good, it's just that people gravitate towards monster mash lists because they're fast and easy to play. hunter contingent still requires a bunch of fire warriors so if you play a list based on it then you'll need at least three units, plus they get their cute little free weapon emplacements when they don't move now

lasguns, yeah can't help you there. they're kind of the shitty gun for a reason.

Basic Chaos Space Marines

Worthless.

The whole point of a lasgun is one shot isn't gonna kill shit

It's all about volume, it's about your 50pts of guardsmen hitting on fours and wounding in fives, then grinning like a fool because that guy failed 2 3+s and you just made their points back

Even with just 10-20 guardsmen it can get deadly once you start getting in rapid fire range, have some way of giving them twin linked, or order FRFSRF

Have you read the new Traitor Legions book? Because they're pretty damn solid for most of them. World Eaters and Death Guard get Fearless for taking god marks (which you have to do), IW get Stubborn for free which upgrades to Fearless if they're on/in a fortification, etc. There's a lot of really, really good stuff in that book and since almost every legion takes the base warband with ObSec as their core they've got that going for them now as well. It's not grav weapons and it's not free vehicles, but since basic CSM troops are cheaper and can double up on special weapons they're pretty darn decent now that they all get free VotLW and a bunch of them get even better leadership buffs on top of that.

well... actually only deathguard look really good(Fearless, FnP, and SnP on everything will do that), and IW are noticeably for Obliterators as troops... with tank hunter... for free. What is sad is that deathguard obliterators are still arguably better because FNP and +1T for 6 points.

Yeah, Death Guard in particular look very, very good, especially once you actually look at how their core choices break down and what you can/need to take. Basic CSMs basically turn into budget plague marines, you get three slots of Nurgle Bikers, and Havocs get Relentless. The core only has one slot that could be considered a tax in the elites, but even then Chosen are still decent if they're Fearless, T5 and Relentless.

Alpha Legion might also be really interesting, since you can double dip their detachment bonus (destroyed units are re-created as new units in ongoing reserves on a 4+) with the lost and the damned formation rule (which literally does the exact same thing), giving you two 4+ rolls every time a cultist unit is wiped out. Lucky rolls and your army actually GROWS as they die, plus they all get outflank since everything in the detachment has infiltrate. I think they'd need allies to work since they just don't really have the firepower to hack it by themselves but damn if that isn't an annoying board presence to have to deal with. There is the downside that if you're playing a mission with kill points that every new unit of cultists generated still grants VPs...

Does the rule have the same name?
Personally, I wouldn't allow the double dip if it's the exact same rule. F'rex, Berzerkers with the Icon of Wrath don't get double Furious Charge just because they have it from two sources. If one rule is called something different but has the same effect though, I could see the argument.

It's a different rule with the exact same wording; one rule is for the legion detachment (which is comprised of formations) and one rule is for a specific formation you can take inside that detachment. Anything in the detachment would get the detachment rule, and the formation would get the detachment rule and its own formation rule. Double dipping reads as intentional. That said, GW is actually FAQing stuff these days so we may actually hear a ruling on it.

The wording is also very specific. You get *new* units placed into ongoing reserves that are identical copies of the original units rather than placing the dead unit back into ongoing reserves as some previous versions of this idea have done.

RAW I'm like 99% sure it double dips, though. GW may come up with some exception (treat is as a reroll instead of two separate rolls), but the way it's worded in the book right now is actually very clear and explicit.

Dark angels Basic Ravenwing bikers. They arent too terrible until you consider that for 15 points you could have a Ravenwing black knight instead which nets you 2 more attacks, a 2+ rerolling jink save near dark shrouds, +1S Rending in close combat, higher lead, a twin-linked plasma gun, and skilled rider. Everything else the dark angels have can serve a purpose but the basic Ravenwing biker is completely outclassed in every part of its job by another unit in the codex and that to me is what makes a unit shitty and unusable

I'd imagine that the walls in this case are LoS blocking terrain, as making them Ruins wouldn't allow them to be such.

Ruins can block LoS if the terrain physically blocks LoS. Just don't make a ruin with too many windows doors or holes.

yeah, it's a case of internal balance being bad even though in terms of external balance ravewing bikers are still pretty decent (i.e., compare them to units outside their codex). it's still a bit of an oddball case since in most books the "bad" unit is very clearly terrible regardless of the context, whereas for dark angels it's really a matter of Black Knights being extremely good, flexible, and spammable units you can build an entire list around. basically, Black Knights probably just cost a little under what they probably should given how much cool shit they have going on.

Two words, Tyranid Pyrovore
>it has worse Melee than a fire warrior (if memory serves)
>expensive
>just use a biovore it's better

Kroot.

They are supposed to be good in close combat and instead they are used as snipers.

Fucking kill me.

>shitty
>overpriced
>unusuable

Nigger Kroot were fucking staple in 6E.

Ravenwing bikers can be given meltaguns to deal with tanks. However, for 20 points less you could fill the same role with a landspeeder and it would use less slots and get longer range from multi-meltas.

You can also take Attack Bikes in units by themselves with Multi-Meltas, which gives you much better range.

I play artillery guard. It feels bad fighting orkz.

I'm gonna go with Crusader Squads for Space Marines. It's not that they're bad in their own right, it's that they don't have any support in the form of detachments. That said, obsec landraiders is pretty great.

You want Ironstriders with Lascannons unless Autos work better for you. Somehow. They do have more range, though, so can headhunt and spot-remove hard targets like tanks and MCs from range while Onagers and infantry do the heavy lifting.

Otherwise magnetize a Dragoon and switch up for sniping and tasing as need be for headhunting as well.

Wyches

>6+

>S3 T3

>AP -

>more expensive than kabalites

they're completely trash, they used to be good at anti vehicle back when they could all pack haywire but now they're a useless points sink

they actually manage to be worse than fucking mandrakes

There's also the Arvus Lighter, which is essentially just a flavor model. Transport capacity 10, AV 10/10/10 flyer for 75 points before upgrades. And any weapon option is a waste of points because it can only fire snap shots. Of course, there's also standard flyer gear on top of that.

I suppose if Skitarii want a transport that badly, they can cram their infantry into these puppies and just dump them where they may before they're shot down.

Kill Team puts emphasis back on infantry, which is awesome. Of course, you could play Zone Mortalis and get much the same with more points that 200/250.

DE
>Wyches

Self-explanatory really, but see
probably the worst unit in the game

CWE
>Opinions vary but probably Storm Guardians. Basically only useful in the decurion where you can get them free melta and/or flamers and free power weapons. Even then they're only useful as a screening unit for the back field, because fuck buying Wave Serpents for an 80 point unit.

Corsairs
>There are no bad units tbqh, some people dislike Wasps but they're basically just DSing War Walkers with HoW; others dislike Malevolents for the stupid -1Ld bubble, but the true shittiest unit is Cloud Dancers if and only if you equip them with Dissonance Cannons, which are completely fucking pointless and overpriced on them

The Arvus Lighter is a narrative terrain piece masquerading as a transport unit. It's not even really a combat vehicle.

ONLY ONE GRENADE MAY BE THROWN PER PHASE GUYS

TAHTS HOW ITS SUPPOSED TO BE

NOW GO BUY GRENADES ON EVERY MODEL

Whatever anyone else says, this is worse.

I appreciate Forge World for making those, as some are pretty neat. I still love the Sentinel Powerlifter even if they stopped making it.

I'm still considering getting an Arvus Lighter and a Hades Breaching Drill for narrative pieces and objectives in games. Zone Mortalis with a Hades Breaching Drill punching through walls for a slow assault while the defender plays harasser trying to stop them, or Arvus serving as a defense point in an escape game.

Yeah, I mean they're cool models and they do serve an interesting narrative purpose in the 40k universe. It's a little expensive for a glorified terrain piece/objective marker, but using it for narrative custom games is pretty clearly what they had in mind when they made it.

You guys are overlooking the fact that it is cute. You are paying 75 points to make your army 100% cuter. Arvus a cute.

100% worth it in light of the above

You're buying Forge World, so they assume you've got the cash to spend on painting and modelling pieces for these products.

Still, those models aren't Codex-base, so they might rightly need to be disregarded when it comes to bad models (well, not the Breaching Drill, which DKoK uses to pretty spectacular effect) since they're supposed to be window dressing and campaign/narrative units rather than serious, competitive units with a niche to fill in their home Codex.

Mandrakes are kind of okay now. They're not the shittiest unit in the Codex, at least.

>Wyches
>Hellions
>Probably something I'm forgetting (Lhamaean? the shitty Beast Master option 10 points thing?)
>Voidraven unibomber
un-power gap
>mandrakes

>mfw we made an Arvus "Gunship" for GSC
>mfw it could take TL Autocannons, Rocket Pods, TL Lascannons, 2 Quad-Stubbers (Heavy 6 S4 AP6 Twin-Linked) or Hunter-Killer Missiles
>mfw it also couldn't Zoom and only got a 5+ Jink because it's a retrofitted cargo hauler playing soldier

Surprisingly fun for the 55pts. Literally died if you looked at it, though.

55 points? How much are Arvus Lighters points-wise? Last book I read with Arvus rules had them at 75.

No idea, because we based it off of the OLD Aeronautica, and honestly just pulled a number out of our ass. The guns cost pts, though (I remember the Autocannons were 20, Quads 20, TL Lascannons 25, and four HK's at 40) so it wasn't amazingly cheap with all the upgrades.

Like I said though, it pretty much died to Bolter fire and could only Hover, and could never have a Jink save of more than 5+. It was fun, but died to a stiff breeze and really couldn't be relied upon to be anything more than a wild card.

Honestly, something like an Arvus shouldn't be more than 45, probably more like 35. Sure, you get all the Flyer rules that come with it, but it's a fat bumblebee of a transport with no stinger, liable to get your own units killed more often than getting them to their destination.

It once was said they would never not be shit.

For fuck sake, scorpions outperforms them not only on everything else, but on their main target as well...

Corsairs I would probably say the Voidstorm whose price skyrocket if you do as much as look funny at their options.
Thought you can do some funny shit with 10 of them with some characters, all equiped with pairs of dissonance pistols. It's insanely expensive, but with reroll to hit you suddenly shit 20 S10PA1 hits out of your joke unit

>Thought you can do some funny shit with 10 of them with some characters, all equiped with pairs of dissonance pistols. It's insanely expensive, but with reroll to hit you suddenly shit 20 S10PA1 hits out of your joke unit

lel I'm planning on building basically this unit soon, expressly for trolling/stupidity purposes. High risk, high reward is the way for pirates to go, right?

Plan is
>Baron + 5 Voidstorms, all with Dissonance Pistols
>Void Dreamer and possibly Farseer (when allying with CWE) for support
>probably give the unit either combat drugs or haywire or both to make it multi-purpose

Average of 8 hits @ s7 ap2 without the psykers, not actually too terrible for 300~ points imo. It also has the potential for the absolute hilarity of your 300 point unit screwing up massively and only managing s5 ap4 and then dying to bolters and running off the board edge. Perfect!

With ten of them, all with pairs of Dissonance Pistols for 350pts you do an average of 13.3 hits at F8 PA1, 17.75 at F9PA1 with rerolls. With characters you probably reach F10PA1.

What do you use for your corsairs, by the way ? The classic forgeworld kit + guardians, or have you tried converting them further ?

Forgeworld kit for the jet packs and reaver helmets
Balestrike -> Scourge with swaps
Malevolents -> Wyches with shit tacked on
Reavers -> Mix of Guardian and Kabalite Warrior + Wych parts
Barons -> DA Exarchs with other stuff tacked on

Working on a prince but for now I just use an Autarch as counts-as

I'm not at home (as in home town, not place of residence) but in the new year I will try to post some pics in /wip/ or /40kg/. I think so far I've gone through 2 boxes of Warriors and Wyches and 3 boxes of Guardians. I have a stupid amount of bits left over and in retrospect probably should have just bought specific bits on ebay. Whatever though it just means I have enough pieces to make some non-Jetpack Reavers for Vyper units. The only things I bought as bits were DE Reaver helmets (which signify characters, basically)

I am terrible with greenstuff so anything not using a Guardian torso looks pretty shit desu but I'll figure out a way to fix that eventually :^)

no wait I also bought Harlequin pistol arms on eBay for the dual wielding guys, I forgot about that. Those ones aren't painted yet since I need to figure out what to do to match the arms on each model a tiny bit better.

You could also use bits from the high elves shadow warriors. The either the cloaks, or the entire chests aren't so hard to adapt to eldars kits.

Also, don't worry too much about greenstuff, all it take is the proper tools, patiences, and occasionnal tutoriels and you can do a decent job for a lot of things. I didn't knew shit about it either but somehow it's easier to learn than what I expected.

Is that a real beetle?

kawaii

Thanks for the cloak tip, user. I am actually considering trying to get the Dark Elf Corsairs cloaks to fit on to some Felarchs/Barons or maybe just the Prince and Void Walker (still trying to think up a way to convert the latter). The High Elf ones are a cool idea though, looks better on your guys than I thought it would (didn't seem rough enough in google pictures when I was looking for possible cloaks).

FW is currently out of Corsair Upgrade Kits though and I need 1 more to finish my dudes. They've been "temporarily out of stock" for at least a few weeks now...

I don't know how easily the corsairs cloaks can fit on eldars chestpieces, but don't use the dark elves chests straight away, they are way too small compared to the 40k heads.

I found this pic on The Dark City a while ago and think it looks pretty good. I also saw a similar conversion but with Reaver helmets and it looked excellent, although I don't seem to have it saved. IDK how hard the guy said it was to do, I'll have to go back and check

Both Tau flyers and Coldstar Commander. There just so many better options.

also here are these for the lulz/any lurkers

If I made something similar they would be fluffed as "former Exodite" pirates. If only I had a reason to build Ghostwalkers...

They look about as good as they play

You'd think tau asthetic would give us super sleek jet fighters kinda like the eldar

Instead we get these weird kite looking things

I guess that depend of the picture and of how well the junction between head and torso is managed, then... I never tried myself, but most pics I saw didn't seemed so good.

Here's a better picture than mine about thoses shadows warriors cloaks, by the way

Most of the current Nid codex.

Neat, they seem like a pretty good option as well.

And as far as the Black Ark Corsairs cloaks go, the sprue looks to be potentially compatible with the front half of a Warrior torso. The cloaks come on their own part of the sprue with the back of the torso. May require some grinding.

I think I'll troll ebay later to see if I can find either type of cloak for experimentation purposes

>55 points in war convocation for twin linked cognis lascannon.
>bs 2 rerollable against flyers.
>shit

what? you play admech, how could you forget the utter garbagewater that is electro priests.

I like the edgy scarves and actual effort in greenstuffing gaps. Good job.

Wolf scouts
>SW scouts are actually veterans who prefer staying quiet n low profile
>costed the same as a tactical squad, were scouts with basic marine staline
>alright
>new scouts come out
The only reason youll ever see wolf scouts on the table anymore is because GW's only suitable purpose for them is as a tax unit for Wolf formations.

That was just a shitty codex all round.

The Arvus Lighter doen't sound to bad to me. It sounds like a budget valkyrie (if you value the valk more as a transport than as a gunship).

It's not got that front armor to protect it from basic guns. They can be torn apart by bolter fire.

Still, they are cute, and they carry 12 models. That's a whole team and maybe a character addition. I suppose that if they just need to move dudes from one place to another out of the line of fire of enemy anti-air or mobs with guns, they can do decently in their jobs while saving some points.

That is a cute beeble.

>tfw noone mentioned these useless fucks yet

A defninition of uselesness in Codex:Useless

How do they compare to Warp Talons?

at least warp talons get there.

Far worse. If your MEQ enemy fields a lot of regural infantry for some reason Warp Talons start to make a little sense. If they tear apart two units of ten marines in such an army, which they're easily capale of doing, they ware a good investment.

Mutilators are Slow&Purpusful melee unit. What the actual fuck. Their only "use" is taking one and hoping for good deep strike rolls, dropping him behind enemy heavy support lines forces them to divert their fire for one turn or be potentially bogged down by the ugly fucker. But due to their lack of speed even this is a barely viably tactic since the drop must by really close to the target.

Shitty unit is shitty,

'Orkanaughts

The new Traitor Legions gives you tremendous mileage out of vanilla CSM, as it gives them free Marks and VotLW, depending on detachment. Not to mention, some of the Legion Detachments give them things like FNP, Inv Saves, Furious Charge and other neato special rules. They're not great units, but they're troops, not elites.

Granted, that's all irrelevant, as the new Legion Detachments couldn't give two shits about Force Org slots. Say hello to a bound army of completely sorcerers, or 9 Khornate Beserker Squads and Kharn. Just a Warpsmith and Obliterators? Tides upon tides of Cultists that SPAWN MORE CULTISTS ON DEATH? I love Traitor Legions, even if it's not great, it is at least funny in how cheesy the whole thing is.

Raptor Talons actually make Warp Talons viable-ish, now. Charging out of Deep Strike makes Warp Talons pretty decent, Mutilators are just terrible all around. Even Deep Striking, Mutilators have to just stand there and watch themselves be shot up for a turn.

>shoots worse than dragoon with radium jezzail
They're both BS4. The difference is that the Ballistarii is twin-linked instead of 2 shots. In other words: BS10 with +1BS imperative
>no phosphor weapons
See: Phosphor Onagers, Phosphor Kataphrons, Phosphor TPD, Phosphor Kastelan, Phosphor Pistols, Phosphor Dragoons. Is it so bad that one unit doesn't have phosphor when damn-near everyone else can?
>can't get stompy
Kills everything charging it with BS2 Auto/Lascannons
>no inherent cover save
Doesn't need it, the enemy's more worried about your Vanguards/Neutron Laser Onagers
>ten more points than Dragoon
About right, considering their amazing anti-vehicle capabilities.

Honestly, Electropriests are far worse. They can be scary in the right hands, but those hands are the sort who can beat a Decurion with a Tyranid army.