What sort of problems do I face by having a bayonet permanently affixed to a rifle? The idea is that even though the rifles have decent range and accuracy the people using them will still have to deal with threats that can most likely tank their way through rifle fire to engage in melee range.
Primarily monsters with thick/magic hide or skin and the occasional dude with magic armor (similarly they might be possessed)
What kind of threat can tank through rifle fire but succumb to bayonets?
Assuming a socket bayonet and breech loaded rifle, the only downside as far as i know is that the bayonet throws off the balance of the rifle (being a big hunk of steel affixed to the far end of the barrel, a way's away from where you are holding it while firing), and so reducing accuracy. Probably moreso in your setting, if you want very thick, sturdy bayonets for piercing thick hides.
Now that i think of it, how is it that these creatures can shrug off rifle rounds but are still vunerable to johnny soldier boy poking him with a bayonet? Magic protection from "arrows"? large pokeable weak spots?
Problems??? None if done right. My aka works like that.
Also You're going full rule-of-cool, never go full rule-of-cool. It's any only awesome if you're ignorant about said subject. If you are not its really, really stupid.
You can't use it to prepare food, open cans and packages, chop firewood or build camp.
Playing the Five-Finger-game becomes a two player activity rather than a way to pass time on your own.
On occasion, human beings. Hence bayonets still being a thing, if rare.
Though that's not really 'tanking' in the typical sense. So yeah, what the hell isn't gonna get stopped by bullets hitting it that in turn could be stopped by being hit by with is essentially a short, overly heavy spear?
If it can tank rifle fire, bayonets aren't going to nick it.
Medieval plate varied but hovered around 2mm thick, it takes nearly a quarter inch of modern flash bainite to stop a rifle.
*my sks.
Also why have it permanently attached? It doesn't need to be. Hell mosins are sighted in with the bayonet on, so it shoots better with it on even though the bayonet attaches.
Also if it's a muzzle loader you are fucked if it's permanent and doesn't move.
With a bayonet you can actually hit weak spots.
Ultimately rule of cool will prevail because I want them to use the rifles like short spears that you can also turn and brain stuff with the stock.
I suppose what I should have said is some threats engaging in melee in spite of having dudes bearing down on them with rifle fire or maybe in situations where they are already in close and have to engage that way.
I don't know. Either way people will have need of both kinds of side arms because having a sword is never not a good idea along with your pistol.
Make the bayonet out of silver, or some other anti-evil material that is expensive. Bullets are for killing what may be killed by them, and the bayonet is a sort of non-expendable 'last ditch option' when facing off against scary beasts. Important generals and other cool folks can have full swords.
One possibility is that rifles are simply too slow to reload to forgo the bayonet, like the breech-loading single-shot Martini-Henry rifle.
Only drawbacks are weight and that the rifle will look like shit, assuming it's designed to be sighted in with the device attached.
The real thing to keep in mind is that bayonets aren't going to stop anything a rifle round wouldn't stop three times as hard.
If the rifle is designed for it and sighted with the Bayonet attached than none, zero additional problems.
Older muskets and early rifles weren't quite accurate enough for this to be a concern though permanently fixed bayonets were relatively common even after the end of WW2.
A modern rifle will have some small issues with the extra weight of the blade on the front throwing off shots at long ranges though medium to short range the difference is negligible,
"An empty rifle can still be a pointy stick." -Old Russian Infantry Doctrine.
A Bayonet can be useful if you're primarily in close quarters. As it means you don't have to switch weapons in order to use what is in essence a short spear.
According to World of Darkness: Vampires.
There's something about bullets not doing sufficient structural damage to them to be as deadly as more primitive weapons, but honestly I think the better explanation is probably "magic".
>"Women will kill you for half the reason a man would, and they'll do it twice as fast, too"
Something that got too close
it makes the gun longer, and harder to handle
other than being harder to lug around, it also affects how fast you can track targets with it, not usually a problem, but in combat a millisecond can mean the difference between life and death
Put your bayonet on a shotgun, problem solved.
Well seeing as and and a couple others have pointed out the issues with using a bayonet I'll give you a good reason to use them.
In a setting where ammo is scarce bayonets would be useful as any shot you don't have to take can be used later for something more important.
the drawbacks, especially once you get past the muzzle loader and into more advanced weapon designs, isn't world ending, although they certainly exist. My question is why? done properly, a detachable bayonet can double's as the infantryman's knife, is usually a rather quick attachment, and can be permanently affixed if the soldier is somewhere where the bayonet might be necessary
several anonshave posted rifles with permanently affixed bayonets with folding capabilities, which are certainly viable, but if someone is walking with said rifle with the bayonet in a folded position, how is it any different from an attachable bayonet
Really it's the speed at which you can deploy it. A well worn in folding bayonet deploys in seconds rather than drawing the knife from your belt, pack or wherever you stashed it, lowering your rifle, attaching the blade, making sure it's locked and leveling the rifle again.
With the folding type the added weight may effect the balistics of the long range shot, but not much. and it' out and ready in one step. also Soldiers can't "misplace" the damn thing.
It's been covered, but the only reason to have a fixed bayonet is if you won't have time to reload the rifle.
A bayonet isn't gonna get through anything a rifle wouldn't unless you're using something like .22LR or using a carbine firing pistol rounds.
some reasons why you might want to use bayonets over bullets:
Whatever material or enchantment is required to ignore the monster's hide costs too much to make enough bullets to be worth it., especially if going out onto battlefields to retrieve your shots isn't feasible. The current situation arose because the monsters are resistant but not completely immune to mundane rounds, and if your bayonet gets broken, it's probably in a big enough piece to go get it and reforge. This also implies your army could have a handful of marksmen who are issued/personally enchant rounds able to pierce monster hide, but they're too expensive to make an entire force out of them.
If the difference is magic based, then it could be a quirk of the magic system. For example: the maximum strength of the enchantment is a function of the surface area of the object. The enchantments required for killing monsters might fit on a cannonball, or an arrow, but bullets just aren't big enough to get more than a marginal benefit.
How feasible would it be to balance a rifle around the assumption that it would have a bayonet on it 24/7? I assume that would just be a heavier stock, so long as you're willing to have a heavier gun.
Also, wouldn't such a weapon not have quite as much recoill?
Also, if this is a PC's weapon (which I'm assuming is the case) the bayonet could be spring loaded or some shit, to reduce the bayonet's influence on firing the gun.
> Soldiers can't "misplace" the damn thing.
Never underestimate the incompetence of a grunt
Maybe it's a magic bayonet?
Several, although they're normally things you don't think about
>bayonet extended increases the length of the weapon. This is a big deal in urban combat and close quarters fighting. Hold a broom to your shoulder and try to "sweep and clear" your home if you don't believe me. You'll have moments where it'll get caught on things or you'll need to turn around and lower the weapon
>It throws off your aim slightly, supposedly it can even throw off the barrel if it's big enough. It was considered significant enough that the Russians sighted their mosins with the bayonet extended, as firing with it off would change the point of impact apparently.
>It's a long "here I am" stick if you're trying to fire out of a window or slit without being seen. This is really only a problem with a bayonet like a mosin's though, which is a foot long.
>you can't use the bayonet for other things, like you would a normal knife.
None of them are deal breakers, but they are things people never consider. There's a reason modern combat pushes for shorter and shorter barrel lengths, and bayonets are often left off after all.
If humans can do it, other things can do it.
And say hypothetically you shot a bear in real life and pissed it off and it closed the distance. If you're either out of bullets or just going "FUCK!" I'd rather have a makeshift spear.
That said in regards to OP I think there's little reason to permanently affix a bayonet, having a good attachment mechanism is better in almost every conceivable way, it gives you options.
>Not very, because...
>More mass towards the barrel actually absorbs recoil. A lighter barrel and heavier stock would compound the issue and kick like a mule just so you could keep something that gets in the way attached. Which leads to...
>The reason that wouldn't work is because when the bayonet retracts, blood would get into the works and foul it up. Too much gunk, and either it won't extend or stays extended until fixed.
>also Soldiers can't "misplace" the damn thing.
and if they lose their rifle, now they also have no longknife
Issue them both.
The incompetence of grunts has nothing on the incompetence of anyone over the rank of Sargeant
During the Korean war there is a story about Col Lewis Millett. Who took command of a US army unit who he found had "misplaced" their bayonets. As it is another useless piece of gear they didn't think they would use. . He had the unit reissue them to the troops and drill with it . Then lead the last recorded bayonet change of the us army. It's an interesting story if you want to look it up. Just search for Korean war bayonet change.
A kevlar golem?
just don't
>ABOLISH THIS!
...
>A lighter barrel and heavier stock would compound the issue and kick like a mule
But it's a lighter barrel plus however much the bayonet (and however it's attached) weighs, and they would be around the front end of the barrel. That's gotta help somewhat with recoil.
As for blood fouling the mechanism, that makes sense but most other forms of carrying blades around also more or less require that the blade be fairly clean before you put them away (though this one would be a bit more vulnerable to that sort of thing) so, as long as you trust whoever is using the thing to take proper care of it (again, I'm assuming this is for a PC), it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
The metro 2033 game had the shotgun with the permanent bayonet. Although in this case the bayonet was the primary weapon on harder difficulties due to a lack of ammo