Warhammer Fantasy General: Bad Decisions for Lahmian Nookie Edition

>The Empire has a middle class and high wages (relatively). It has universities and engineering schools. It has newspapers, a postal system and semaphore lines.
>newspapers, a postal system and semaphore lines.
I've never seen it having any of those things

It has agitators in the main Wfrp book with pamphlets, a few adventures have mentions of printing presses.

I got you famalam.
Can't find the postal service at the moment. It might be mentioned with Coachmen somewhere.

Here's something at least.

omeg

Which version of the Career Compendium do THOSE come from? Mine doesn't have all that.

So, can halflings be spellcasters in WFRP2? I have this vague recollection that they can't but there seems to be no rule against it.

>semaphore lines
>lines

I don't know about lines, but there's certainly semaphore towers. Probably only for official business, though. Or working by some system of prioritization.

By fluff they can't, no. Chaos has no ability to interact with Halflings. Well, I know that Ogres are the same but they CAN be effected by Chaos if exposed to enough for long enough, so maybe Halflings can, but it would be extremely rare and unlikely.

Mechanically I don't remember if there is anything in WHFRP 2e that says either way. I imagine it's possible, but as above it should be very unlikely.

Halflings have Resistance to Chaos. They can't get mutations and never get a Magic stat.

I just figured it out!

Halflings are tiny voracious eaters because all those calories are used to produce chaos resiting proteins.

Interestingly, though, dwarves have Resistance to Magic, which does not have the same limitation, even though - as far as I know - dwarves cannot become wizards either, by the fluff.

>Halflings are tiny voracious eaters because all those calories are used to produce chaos resiting proteins.

Genius! Let's call them midichorians!

Dwarfs can, in rare cases, but they succumb to the Curse of Stone which is described in Tome of Corruption for Chaos Dwarfs. They're meant to be resistant to magic, able to shape it in physical ways rather than flat out immunity.

I don't think it would be very smart to put something that likely farts free radicals into a mitochondria.

That seems quite explicitly to only apply to either specifically Chaos Dwarves, or specifically Chaos Dwarf Sorcerers.

It does say that "Dwarfs are not suited to magic", but it doesn't explain why, and the Core Rulebook also doesn't seem to restrict things.

Also, I found this warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Dwarf_Wizard#fn_1a which is obviously a bit dated, being from 1st edition. But it could set a precedent. It would mean going to the Colleges, however, and I'm not sure wht he dorfs would think of that.

That's dwarfs in general. It may have been different in older editions, but from the modern 6th and on dwarfs were not meant to use magic that wasn't through runes. A runelord from the War of Vengeance series was focusing magic by himself and he turned into stone.

Dwarf wizards were phased out through editions. So the Curse of Stone applies to the dwarfs this thread deals with, namely 6th and 7th WHFB and 2nd edition WFRP.

>In contrast, the Dwarfs believe that the magic granted by the Ancestor Gods to their clergy is very reliable. It is, they claim, as incorruptible as Runic magic.

Ooooh, it's funny because there's no rules for dwarven priests in WFRP2 or dwarven deities ooooohaha, it's funny because there's no dwarven supplement at all, hahaaaa.

Alright, just odd that the Core Rulebook doesn't mention it or that the Realms of Magic or Tome of Corruption doesn't address it. It's extra odd because it really seems like the Core Rulebook adheres to the same idea, never mentioning dwarf wizards at all, but never actually explaining anything around it, nor prohibiting it.

It's just very weird.

With 2nd edition you kinda need to search for stuff a bit more than usual. It's a great game but it really needed an editor to go through and sort things out. You have 'no dwarf wizards without consequences' in ToC and the rules for surgery and being drunk in random areas of Old World Armoury.

>You have 'no dwarf wizards without consequences' in ToC
Thing is, they could've written that section to apply to all dwarves, and specify that this rule also applies to non-Chaos Dwarves. Not doing so seems intentional.

But at the same time, the very idea of dwarven wizards is never addressed in the Core Rulebook or Realms of Magic, or really touched upon much, yet there's no rules against it in neither of them, either.

If the intent was to add a rule saying dwarves can't normally be wizards, it could easily have been errata'd. But it wasn't. Not mentioning it just seems as intentional as not prohibiting it.

Like I said, it's just very odd, like they weren't actually sure, didn't want to make a rule against it, but also didn't want to actually write about the concept of dwarven wizards.

I can't exactly quote a line about the issue, as I'm at work and don't have my books with me but I recall a similar thing said in Rogue Crowns about dwarf princes not being priests or wizards. Again, can't confirm until later but I always rule the Curse of Stone in my games as it makes sense since Dawi and Daw'Zharr stem from the same source and the Old Ones likely implanted that in their DNA to keep them with runic magic.

Actually, nevermind, Realms of Sorcery does specifically address it, in the section on rune magic. I'm fucking retarded.

It does say "fundamentally incapable to", though. It is slightly odd, because the way it's written, this would also exclude divine magic (which is fundamentally the same, but exhibited and practiced differently).

But at the same time, Chaos Dwarf Sorcerers were, as far as I'm aware, always described as wizard-priests, that they essentially channeled arcane magic through divine means, meaning that they used priestly ways to force wizardly force through themselves, which is why they get fucking stoned. It has to be forced somehow, because dwarves cannot use magic naturally.

Divine magic and sorcery are one and the same, magic flowing from the Realm of Chaos just by a different name. The term sorcerer-priest is simply a name as the Chaos Dwarfs owe their existence and magic to Hashut who saved them from rampant mutation and taught them sorcery. They're wizards that also rule through religion, more sorcerer than priest as humans know them.

One of my players had an interesting what-if with Hashut rather than 'lolanotherchaosgod,' that Hashut might be a lost Ancestor God who advocated the forbidden use of magic and was, consequently, cast out from his people and stricken from the records for proposing something so profane.

No, magic comes from the winds not chaos.

The winds are Chaos, everything flows from the warp.

>Divine magic and sorcery are one and the same

Yes and no. They stem from the same source, but like I said, they are exhibited and practiced differently. This is evidenced by the fact that Witchsight gives you very, very different images depending whether it's some form of "priest" or some form of "wizard" that does the casting.

Wizards (usually) rely on boiling magic down to a science, isolating the appropriate wind(s), using them with precise intent. It's theory and practice and calculations.

Priests seem to rely on intuition, their intense belief, and their imposition upon (or being imposed upon) some otherworldly force. By all accounts, they should be utilizing Dhar, since they do not recognize the winds of magic or the purposeful use of any specific one, but they are evidently not, and assuming that they are using "whatever's available" (also a form of Dhar) they still manage to escape the corruption that would strike any arcane wizard that did the same.

>con'd

>con't
It is never explained anywhere what the exact differences are, but it's made clear in Realms of Sorcery (and somewhat in Tome of Salvation) that they are very different, even if they stem from the same source (unknown to the practitioners; the priests very much believe that the divine are granting them favours, and so likely does many imperial wizards, at least to some degree, even if the highest wizards likely can guess at the origins - voicing them might be seen as heresy, though).

And as much as I know that deities are essentially coalesced warp-essence and not individual personas, we cannot deny that they manifest within the Realms of Chaos as if they would be, and their actions or interactions cannot be wholly dismissed when it comes to the nature of prayer and the powers of "divine" spellcasters.

So when it comes to the Chaos Dwarves, I have no difficulty believing that they recognize sorcery for what it is; an arcane science, with the power stemming straight from the warp, that can be manipulated in a purposeful and precise manner, utilizing essentially scientific models, but they also know that their literal God is within the warp, and channel his powers through themselves as an act of faith and willpower.

Knowing this, having opened the door, they can then practice their wizardly arts in a way that regular dwarves would or could not. It's probably much like sucking a golfball through a garden-hose. And this would quite literally make them both priests and sorcerers in a way that, for example, elven "priests" are not (because even the elven priesthood fully recognizes that all of this is from the warp, and adheres to principles of magic which more "ignorant" races does not).

The Winds of Magic are quite literally Chaos. Condensed warpstuff that have yet to take form or crystallize within realspace. They pour out of the northpole, flowing down over the world, until they are drained at The Vortex at the center of Ulthuan.

>what-if with Hashut ... might be a lost Ancestor God
This would not surprise me at all, since, in a meta sense, we know that all gods are practically chaos gods, it is just that they manifest in different ways based on the beliefs and emotions and so forth exhibited by sentient creatures and such. While there's nothing ever confirming this, this has actually been part of my headcanon for a while, I just don't talk about it, since it's just a funny "what-if", or baseless conjecture.

But it is entirely possible that Hashut is indeed a bonafide Ancestor God that either was corrupted or became corrupted. I was also toying with the idea that the Chaos Dwarves are the more legitimate heirs, and a splinter from am ancient civil war of succession. From there on out, things have just gone increasingly sideways, and the other dwarves refuse to talk about it because of muh grudges, but actually share a collective feeling of shame over the chaos dwarves.

Not because they are chaos dwarves, but because it was their stubborn nature and refusal to reconcile that eventually drove the followers of Hashut into the arms of Chaos out of sheer necessity.

Just spitballing, but I like the ideas. Hashut was once the the god of rulership, nobility, and fire (inner and literal), and his priesthood stood watch over the centuries, eventually taking the final sacrifice of not joining the ancestors, but to always guard over the lines of succession and the remains of dwarvenkind. Still, today, in the most ancient of holds, it is like the eyes of some of the most venerable, primordial dwarven statues follow you wherever you go, their hearts ablaze with the ever-burning hate of betrayal, their charge cast aside, their sacrifice for naught.

That's a fine theory but there's no evidence for it. As far as I know Hashut is a Greater Daemon that's been imprisoned in a hill

>the most venerable, primordial dwarven statues

>Don't go in there, not into that hall. We no longer go there.
>What's wrong with it?
>We no longer go there. Not since.. then. It is ill fate.
>What is in there?
>Only death and memories. It is naught but ill fates & bad luck. Come. This way.

There's actually evidence against it, as the Dawi who went over the mountains said they had no Ancestor God rise up to save them which was why they were lost and became so bitter and desperate that their king had to make a deal with Hashut in order to save his people. It's still a somewhat interesting idea, though I stick with the Bloodthirster who dabbled in magic and was hunted for it.

Askin' questions your elders told you to drop...you better believe that's a grudgen'

Depends if the bastard got some noble patrons wanting to fuck their rivals up, I'd say.
Nothing better that counterclaiming your opponents with a naive and easily controlled half-brother/sister.

Apparently they can have titles if they prove themselves worthy, like Mallobaude and Barbenoire seems to indicate.

>Hashut

He is the Father of Darkness, for his children was left to linger in it.

Nah, a minor Daemon Prince of some sort or genus locii who has been shaped by the Chaos Dwarves as much as worshipping him has shaped them.

I'm a big fan of the warp is a mess of powers other than the big 4 as you can tell.

>the Dawi who went over the mountains said they had no Ancestor God rise up to save them

That's actually interesting, if you think about it, depending on how you interpret it. Can a regular dawi be trusted in this? After all, it is very easy to say that "they had no Ancestor God" if you cast them out. They became "lost" because Hashut wasn't a "true" Ancestor God, and as the other dwarves waged war against them and then refused them aid, the cultural idea of the "true" Ancestor Gods not being of the Chaos Dwarves, not helping them, not only grew, but became ingrained.

>It is their own fault. They should've been true. Why wouldn't they listen? The Ancestors have cast them out, it is in their hands now, it is not for us to judge. Let them stand by the golden bull if need be, see if it helps them.
>But father, Grungni teaches us to know our kin and be true to them, isn't it up to...
>Silence, child! The matter is settled, I say! My decision is final. Steward. Let it be known to close the great gates of Everpeak. The back of Karaz-a-Karak is turned. Send word to Karak Kadrin. The pass is sealed. None shall pass. None.

Even *if* it was a Daemon Prince or even a minor Daemon or some shard of Khorne and Tzeentch at first, or even a legitimate Ancestor God, it doesn't actually matter overly much today. It's Hashut now, a legit god, chaos or otherwise.

As for the background, it's pure speculation. Might as well make it interesting.

This could easily tie into why Karaz Kadrin has had slayer kings since -650 IC. This'd mean that the split took place "only" about 3000-3200 years ago, which in dwarven terms (with a lifespan of 400-500 years) "only" means 6-or-so generations.

Humans couldn't possibly grasp that, but to dwarves, this would still be part of their collective cultural memory, even if they actively tried to keep quiet about it out of shame. It's possible the elves would know, though, but it is far from a given.

This'd mean that the Chaos Dwarves may share the general dwarven hatred of elves, too, since the War of the Beard occurred much, much, much further back yet (-3000 IC or more, if I remember correctly).

Does chaos dwarfs list and catalogue grudges in the same way as "regular" dwarfs?

Completely random question - what happened to the Phoenix Crown? It may be covered in some source, but all I find is that it's in the hoards of Karaz-a-Karak.

What if part of the reason dwarfs are completely unable to reconcile with the elves, despite fighting on the same side in the Storm of Chaos (for example) is because they would have to (or feel that they would have to) return the Phoenix Crown - but they don't have it. The Phoenix Crown is actually in Zharr Naggrund.

Mallobaude operates out of Mousillon, and they care much less about Bretonnian social order. But fair point, even before he fell, he wasn't just a knight but got to drink from the Grail. Was he a great bastard or a regular one?

Apparently he's Louen's bastard, which doesn't make sense as Louen is a Grail Knight. We don't know much more than that, so we don't have details as to why he's a bastard.

Louen wasn't always a Grail Knight, he was a young stud once

I doubt if the elves would know much of a dwarfen split. The elves always looked down on the dwarfs to some degree. The only one to really respect and understand them was, ironically, Malekith, who used his knowledge of their sense of honor and his knowledge of his own kin's pride to set them at odds.

It's always possible he was raped, too, or forced into a tryst by some cage of honor and obligation. Depending on which version of Arthur you believe in, his sister deceived him to beget Mordred, so I wouldn't be surprised if the same was true of Mallobaude.

Well he left for the Quest as a young man and came back home as a silver haired adult. When Mallobaude was born is unknown so if it had to happen, it had to be during the Quest which would have excluded him from the Grail. I just don't see the flower of chivalry rutting some noble girl without marrying her or cheating on his wife.

Remember what Chivalry is, the bullies code, with all the hypocrisy and lies that entails.

Might not even be a noble girl.

Except Grail Knights are the embodiment of what true chivalry is. You can't become one without being the best guy ever while also kicking a tonne of ass. A Knight of the Realm may bend or break the code, but not the Grail Knights. If you're not pure of heart you won't survive the Grail's waters.

Theoretically, anyone can be a knight. They just need to be knighted. This is harder depending on where you're from, who you are, what your ancestry is, and so on.

But strictly speaking, you don't have to be a noble-born. I'd say that bastards would make pretty common knights, because it gives them an elevated position without having to recognize them as heirs. It's all very proper, really.

You can still fuck around and be pure of heart

That's wrong for Bretonnia. The WFRP book says that only twice in history have peasants or non-nobles become nobles. Both times they "conveniently" died in their first battle from stabs in the back.

The Newssheet Vendor is in the Career Compendium.
The Coachman paragraph is from pic (file?) related.
The Semaphore paragraph is from The Enemy Within.

Not really. In the arturian ethos that the Grail stuff is based on (or in reality at all, but this is more skub) the Lancelot or Arthur can't find the Grail.

Only Percival, guy who never have touched woman with a lewd thought can.

But the Lady of the Lake is a cunning elf. She may have deemed big L ,,close eunough" and then his only sin of the past comes and scarres his Kingdom for life.

The Phoenix Crown is still in Karaz-A-Karak, the only trophy they have that retains its original form, as the dawi like to melt down enemy trophies and forge them into something to commemorate the battle.

Source: Grudgelore

So my WFRP party might be spending winter in a Dwarf Karak and that seems like an opportunity for ADVENTURE.
I'm thinking Greenskins and snowy mountain passes are the order of the day, but this is WFRP so there needs to be some intrigue too.
I might take some inspiration from The Fifth Elephant and Thud! by Terry Pratchett for dwarven internal politics, but has anyone else got some decent ideas?

Also, what's a good diplomatic gift from Humans to Dwarves to cement an alliance? I doubt human craftmanship is going to impress, and raw gold or gems seems like a bribe. The return of some artifact or other would be good, but I doubt they have any to hand.

Anyone ever bothered to scan the colour parts of the Mordheim rulebooks?

Any WFRP 2nd edition PDFS??

Can it be trusted? Could it be a ruse?

google + khorne.ru + pdf's name

There is a WH book where Dwarfes hold grudge against a certain imperial noble family for their ancestor aquired "slightly used gyrocopter, no strings attached" that was stolen generations ago.

Dworfs INSIST that it should be brought back to them. I think that dwarfs apprciate some justice, so gettig back what is rightfully theirs may be the point.

And everything goes south quickly when it gets stolen from your players nose by the skaven!

Well I mean their king literally looted it from the Pheonix King's body upon kicking his ass in single combat, so unless you want to make it being a fake a plot device in your game I'm fairly certain it's legitimate

Neat thought, though, one of the most valued trophies of the Karaz Ankor being a fake.

mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!kF4GASgC

Here you go senpai

Funnily enough, they will be accompanying a gyrocopter pilot there anyway.

Part of the reason they're going is that the pilot crashed his gyrocopter while helping out the Empire, getting horribly burnt in the process. The party are going to help him get back home and are taking something to say thanks to the dwarves too, because it turns out the Empire really like having allied gyrocopters scouting blackfire pass.

Best wfrp campaign besides enemy within?

I haven't run it, but The Thousand Thrones seems pretty decent.
Liber Fanatica has a fair amount of supplementary support for it too.

And yet Mallobaude was a knight, and got to drink from the Grail. Do great bastards count as nobles as far as the Crown and Lady are concerned?

Thank you famma lamma

>Also, what's a good diplomatic gift from Humans to Dwarves to cement an alliance?

Settle a dwarfen grudge or keep an important oath when the time comes. Dwarfs value nothing more than those things. Help a dwarf settle an important grudge? You're in. My party actually did that, recovering an ancestral weapon from an orc warboss.

Mine. :^)

The heads of a hated goblin tribe and their boss to dance for the dwarfs amusement. Dwarfs value actions over words and gifts they will probably tut over.

Was watching Siege of the Saxons on TV and now I want to start a Bretonnian army. Damn it!

Most lore around Mallobaude's origins is vauge or not concrete.
Him being a bastard of Louen is a theory. If it were true I believe he would then be the "son" of some other noble and his unfaithful wife, making him still nobility. But bastards can drink from Mallobaude's black grail.

Mallobaude drank from the real Grail, it just didn't take.

user, why wouldn't you want to play Bretonnia?

I maintain that he had one final test but failed due to his pride. He was said to be the best, probably King worthy, so not being rewarded probably made him super bitter.

He explicitly drank from the Grail, though. Something just went wrong and he saw through the illusion and glimpsed some 'terrible truth.' Do you mean you prefer to ignore that and go with a slightly different version?

That's just my interpretation of the 'truth' he saw. One man's truth is anothers snap judgment. Let me quote the Bretonnian book on this one;
>>Throughout all, the quest is always foremost in the knight's mind, daring to hope that one day his efforts will be rewarded with a sight of the Grail. Few Questing Knights ever achieve this honour, many are slain in combat with mighty and fearsome foes. Others live their whole lives without sight of the Grail, their souls in constant yearning for it.

The test, in my mind, was not to become the best and be worthy of the Grail. It was to be so close, to gain almost everything you want but still not complete your Quest. A truly pious man would have accepted his fate, squared his shoulders and got back on his horse to continue his travels. Even if it meant travelling into old age.

Instead he drank and when there was no fanfare or a feeling of power surging through him, he thought it was a shame. It's not that he was a bad man, just an impatient one.

But that's just how I personally feel how it went down, and how I plan to run it in WFRP if my players ever go to Mousillon.

>you will never spend your life in epic quest and be blessed by the lady of the lake

Do it. Be a crazy shit because this comic says it's cool.

But in all seriousness, that's basically the whole point of the Quest. It isn't easy, it isn't quick. Even if you may meet all the criteria you still might not be worthy, but that's okay. You can just keep Questing for your stacked Lady.

I know Mallobaude himself drank from the real grail. I was saying he is noble and the bastard part isn't fully confirmed one way or another. And even if it were confirmed it's possible he is still noble due to being raised by whatever loyal family Louen cucked. But isn't Mallobaude himself also said to have a "Black Grail" that anyone can drink from that is distinct from the real grail.

this comic perfectly summarizes men.

>Except Grail Knights are the embodiment of what true chivalry is

Say that to my face in the field fucker and not in the forest and see what happens.

Mentally ill men, sure.

Favourite moments in WHFB?WFRP?

One of mine, as I can't choose from a few of them, was a portal that lead directly to Altdorf, a kind of magic-tech device that connected all over the globe from Lustria, to Norsca and even to Zharr Naggrund. Once my players had stepped through and the sensation of being transported hundreds of miles faded, they were greeted by a Witch Hunter with at least fifteen handgunners with their guns locked and loaded and as many men with halberds wearing full plate waiting for them. It was the first time in the history of our group that they completely surrendered without as much as a remark or some kind of whispering as to how to get out of this situation. Probably born of experience as they had taken the portal several times and knew that there was a cool down time to using it, not short enough to survive a firing squad.

So an Eldar Webway Portal?

If you think Old Ones/Lizardmen, essentially yes. The idea behind was that the Slann and skinks of the days when the world was being ordered and the races were first made these portals would be used by teachers and geneticists to travel quickly, thus the lack of room for more than a small group. Heavily guarded they aren't used by the powers that be to assault another nation/race, but once in a while you might get a cult trying to use it to further their goals or an adventurer party setting it off by accident or desperation. Usually ending in a hail of gunfire, if on the Imperial side.

I was reading Gilead's Curse and towards the end they spend a lot of time in a University.

I was DM. Pulled out a lesser demon to scare my low-level party. Halfling procc'd Ulric's Fury on a sling and killed it in one hit.

How many? One of the moments I abosoultey love is when someone gets Ulric's, and then a second, and when the third one drops the whole group is counting THREE! FOUR! FIVE! with him. Even if it's this big baddie I've been building up for ages, it's still infectious.

two

Still bretty good, for a halfling.