Since every other faction is basically irrelevant, who's going to win, Tyranids or Chaos?

I thought that it devolved into inconclusive bickering like always?

also, you may have summoned the necron fags

Honestly, it depends. If the nids wipe out most sentient life in the Milky Way before Chaos can plunge the galaxy into the warp, the nids win. Other way around? Chaos wins. Honestly, everyone else is fucked either way.

I think they can and without using shit tier dip into immaterium but some kind of gravitational warp drive or wormhole.
Or maybe I'm not with newest lore.

This thread is about Chaos vs Tyranids.

Necron fags get out. You had your thread.

Nothing is safe from the Necrons.

>>Get tired of constantly killing them
Necron fanboys are really the worst, I feel sorry, for posting

Oh yeah. I'm sure you posted that ya faggot.

Tau

On the same token though, daemons don't have biomass and can't truly die, and therefore are a massive waste of resources for the 'Nids to fight.

Tyranids are in the best position to win the less they fight chaos directly. If they were to wipe out every other faction, there's no one left to feed chaos because tyranids don't have souls.

What if nurgle rot/disease could take hold of the tyranids. I mean if it was chaos top priority to deal with the nids, then wouldn't nurgle dip deep into his cauldron to see what he could cookup for the nids, and maybe tzeentch could so some psyke fuckery to attempt to interfer with the hivemind? I guess khorne and slaanesh would just be limited to making sure footsoilders are as bloodthirsty and well equipt for the ground battle but still? Maybe it's worth a thought

>inertialess drive

is no longer canon

Because of this I think that in the long run during a war chaos would come up on top.

Also chaos can corrupt mortal servants to do their biding so if chaos is involved with all its power we would have to invole chaos space marines.

If it's a war that's purely 1v1 I would say it depends on the degree of corruption of the planet and warp fuckery going on. Normal material realm I would give tyranids the victory. Tyranids invading a planet in the middle of the eye of terror however would be an assured loss.

Christ why do these threads bring out the worst wankery in you fanboys?

The tyranids also don't really lose any biomass since they consume and repurpose their dead.

Veeky Forums has become so rampant with Chaosfags due to the HH books it's almost hilarious.

When Chaos literally shoots itself in the face to spite it's nose as it's standard battlefield tactic, you know the people backing that horse are stupid as fuck.

Entropy is a thing.

Tyranids don't consume biomass to gain energy. They consume it to gain more mass trough which to create more nids.

Not to tyranids.
The codex has mentioned that when two fleets fight the winner eats everything and there is no net loss of resources.

Its why the hivemind does it, because it gets a new superfleet combining the resources and strengths of its "parent" fleets.

As long as they get eventual access too their own dead they'll at least break even.

Tyanids need biomass to make more nids. If they can't get what they put in back out at the end, it means that they've essentially "lost". Demons don't contribute any biomass, though. THey just vanish. So I think Chaos would win. Warp in a metric fucktonne of demons, fight for a while, and the nids eventually come out on top, but now have to waste a bunch of energy and biomass making more nids for no gain whatsoever. But Khorne is happy because war. Multiply this over a few millenia, and the Nids will be crying as they slowly waste away due to lack of resources.

Assuming they don't run like fuck to another galaxy.

Eating their own dead will give them back the resources they've spent.

True they won't gain anything but they won't lose anything either.

They don't need to intactish corpses either, tyranids can eat the ash of burned things and still gain.
Plus whenever they visit a planet they take vast quantities of minerals, water and air.
As long as the hivefleest keep invading new planets they'll gain mass.

Long term its not a good fight for chaos as tyranids will steadily consume the sentient life Chaos depends upon for existence.

But it's not like there are only demons in most cases.
If they successfully take a planet there is most likely some biomass around they can take, even if it is just veggies.

Everyone forgets about the STCs

The IoM might not win the battle, but they at least pull something out of their ass at the last moment to achieve a pyrrhic victory and keep the wheel of grimdarkness turning.

DA ORKS

Nurgle's rot is an interesting idea as a defense against the Nids, but a risky one. Depending on who is writing, it has been potrayed as just a normal, if unnaturally effective, disease which Tyranids could adapt to with ease or as microscopic daemons which could simply stop existing due to the Shadow in The Warp. Plus, if they are bacteria, Nids would get biomass even from that.

This is ridiculous, everyone knows its the Imperium that will win, they've literally won every major war they've ever been in, there ain't a faction alive which better defines 'boring invincible protagonist' than the,

That doesn't mean that nids break Enthropy, as long as they have an external source of energy, like, you know, the fucking starlight. They could fulfill all their energy needs the same way plants do.

>that bl wankery again.

Reminder that humanity's technology has never surpassed the Eldar, let alone the Necrons.
DaoT humanity lived in the shadow of the Eldar Empire and couldn't do shit against them.
They existed, because the Eldar didn't care to destroy them, as they were too involved in self obsessed hedonistic pursuits.

If the Tyranids eat enough people, thus starving Chaos from the emotion it feeds upon.

Tyranids can win, but it'll be a tough thing to do. Mostly because the Tyranids aren't just fighting Chaos - Necrons, Imperium, (Dark) Eldar, Orks, Tau; pretty much everyone doesn't want to have all life nommed.

>Implying there's any solid info about DAoT

No, but there is solid info about the Eldar, and that info says that they were the undisputed masters of the galaxy before their fall, which means that DaoT humanity were never the top dogs of the galaxy.

>DaoT humanity lived in the shadow of the Eldar Empire and couldn't do shit against them.
That at least is claimed by some Eldar.
You know those dickish, arrogant fuckwits which have a whooping 2 individuals who were alive at the time of their Empire...

In short, that claim is most likely bullshit. Mankinds prospered when the Eldar were already is the phase of murderfucking = fun.
Had they been able to exterminate mankind they would've done it. For fun.

And how many humans from the DAoT are alive in the year 40K, again?

Again, they said they were at their zenit.
Their empire lasted several million years. The first human federation lasted 25k years.

Quite possible that the zenit of the Eldar empire was long over by the time mankind reached for the stars...

>The codex has mentioned that when two fleets fight the winner eats everything and there is no net loss of resources.
There might not be a loss of mass, but there will still be an increase of entropy.

Big E.

And we know all faction lore in 40k is several layers of propaganda.
Why do you think Eldar are different?

Actually no. Asurmen, the book, makes quite clear that even as they tore themselves apart the Eldar were unconcerned with other races.

Additionally the Shadow Walker in Throneworld makes clear that the Eldar Empire was significantly more powerful than the DAoT humans. And if we're going to disbelieve her, sure, but then we might as well not believe anyone ever so any sort of discussion is pointless cause we can always just shrug and say we don't belive a particular person.

Considering GW has emphasised time and time again that the Eldar were the galactic hegemon during the time I find it weird to try to shift such a major part of the narrative just to engage in more human-fantasy masturbation

Okay but he's obviously not reliable concerning almost anything, definitely not aliens since he was an avowed xenophobe who believed in the destruction of all non-human life on principle.

Do you retards understand 40k canon at all?

40K has no canon. The only thing that is not canon is books labelled heretic tomes. Unless it's in a heretic tome, it's still canon. Oldcrons and rogue trader are still just as canon as everything else.

>It's another 'Let's shit on the Eldar in a situation they would normally win' episode

Liking the Spehss Elves is suffering.

I imagine, unless the heat death of the universe is not a thing in 40k, that Nurgle will win by default.

He just needs time.

Yes. Liking anyone but the Imperium pretty much is.

That's not a win for Nurgle. That's a loss for everyone.

Even Nurgle needs life to eventually decay and become his plaything before the rot brings for new life. Albeit abhorrent life, but life nonetheless.

At least the other factions are still living. Eldar are on their death bed, almost literally this time.

...

I seem to recall reading about anext Iron Warriors fortress world, thought to be so impenetrable as to be not worth attacking, that the Tyranids sacked in a day or two.

>Since every other faction is basically irrelevant, who's going to win, Tyranids or Chaos?

Tyranids are not relevant.

>Could the Nids defeat Chaos?

No.

Tyranids are a mere sideshow next to the Imperium - Chaos conflict.

Based humanity. I got goosebumps reading this.

Nids are a more consistent and fast moving threat while chaos can pull ultimate power. I love Nids and think they would win in reality but chaos has space Marines so it will be the BBEG

>Daemons don't have biomass

This technically isn't true, only Tzeentch deamons consist of pure warp energy.

Khorn, Nurgle and Slaneesh require some form of physical connection to beable to manifest outside the warp such as Khorn requiring blood, and Nurgle needing something that can actually rot. There's no real info on what Slaanesh needs but knowing Slaanesh it's probably cum or some shit.

>in the long run during a war chaos would come up on top

In the long run chaos will destroy its self. Chaos is the manifestation of the emotions of Humans, Eldar and other intellegent races.

If these races no longer exist, either does Chaos.

>mplying there aren't Dark Eldar who'd get off on being nommed

Not even Necrofags.

Imperium

It's almost as though they keep (((coming back))).

>This technically isn't true

No, it's true. Daemons have no physical form.
No matter what they appear to be, it's just warp energy.

Necrons.

>In the long run chaos will destroy its self. Chaos is the manifestation of the emotions of Humans, Eldar and other intellegent races.

This, people need to stop treating Chaos like the other factions in the game.

Chaos is a cancer. That cancer will continue spreading until you either apply chemo or find an outright cure. When cancer kills a person, the cancer inside of them also dies.

It's not an organized faction with defined goals like the Tyranids or Necrons. It just exists and does what it's created to do.

Wrong, the daemon codex says that all daemons are not material. Their bodies fall apart and disappear when killed.

And wrong, again. The main rulebook says Chaos will destroy all life, space, and time then only Chaos will remain eternal.

Also the 2nd ED Eldar codex says warp entities are immortal in the Warp.

Based on the fluff, here is what I see.

Whenever Chaos surprise attacks the Nids, they win. See M'kar summoning daemons on a Tyranid invaded world, that warp portal in the middle of a hive fleet in the Khorne Daemonkin book, and those Warp Talons teleporting on and killing a Hive Ship. However, whenever it drags into a prolonged battle, like Shadowbrink or the Iron Warrior's fortress, the Tyranids tend to win.

In an all out-galactic war, Chaos would get the early advantage and make major gains. However, as they expended all their surprises, the Tyranids would counter and adapt. More synapse creatures would be spawn to fuck with the warp, and the Tyranids would develop counter strategies, while Chaos remains largely, and ironically, static. So, in the long term, assuming Chaos doesn't pullout any never-before-seen bullshit super weapons, the Tyranids will take the day. Especially since daemons get nothing from fighting Nids, but the Tyranids can still get biomass off of CSM, cultists, and the planets they'll be fighting on.

>Nothing is safe from Necrons

The fuck you on about mate. Your shit got reconned remember, Necron lords are just as likely to help othere races rather than destroy them if it means them getting some benefit out of it.

They were probably trading with them. DAT era humanity was Federation-tier if not better. They were literally so good, that the only thing that could've fucked them over was getting MAGICKED out of nowhere. With hundreds of thousands of mahou shoujos popping out on the planets and turning into demons.

Chaos is confirmed to continue to exist after it destroys the galaxy though.

>Chaos remains largely, and ironically, static.

What?
Really?
Chaos can twist space and time, turn the inanimate animate, can corrupt on a physical or spiritual level.
Chaos has way more tricks than the Tyranids.

The issue with that is Tyranids have a hard counter to most of those already.

Plagues of Nurgle have been shown as ineffective against the Tyranids, and getting enough Shadow in the Warp in the area can fuck over Chaos's ability to pull impossible shit.

Honestly, Shadowbrink remains the best example of what a Tyranid vs. Chaos fight looks like. Chaos pulled out impossible stuff, but the Tyranids out-adapted and countered all of it. Like I said, Chaos wins if they can get the jump on the Tyranids, because the latter has no time to adapt, but in a prolonged battle, the Tyranids just outlast Chaos and have more hard-counters. Daemons can't corrupt Tyranids like they can other races.

wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fall_of_Shadowbrink

Actually, the walls of reality are about to break and more and more humans are expolding into daemons. The Shadow in the Warp will do nothing against that because the galaxy will be beset by numerous warpstorms

False.

As long as the daemons remain fed with energy, the Tyranids cannot win. The daemons in Shadowbrink were losing momentum and energy during the fight. However, this is no longer will be a thing considering that the walls of reality in the Age of Ending are thinner than ever.

>The issue with that is Tyranids have a hard counter to most of those already.

No they do not.
Tyranids avoid warpstorms for a reason.

>Honestly, Shadowbrink remains the best example of what a Tyranid vs. Chaos fight looks like.

No, it remains one example of a Tyranid vs Chaos fight.

Tyranids cannot merely out adapt everything as a matter of course.

In all of these other "Who will win" threads, the other factions have been discounted. I'm going off of just Tyranids vs. Chaos, with no other factions being involved. If we're going on 40k as a wider whole, yeah the answer of who is going to win is a bit more muddled. But if we're doing purely Tyranids vs. Chaos like I am, I think the former wins.

Basically, we're having two different arguments here.

Cont'ed...

Here is an example of Tyranids being grounded down by properly fed daemons.

>The stolen planet was not the only legacy of Rakarth’s grand ambition. The rending of the veil had left a gaping wound in reality, and a large spar of the webway had been opened to the realm of terrors that mankind calls the Warp. Saim-Hann was reeling in the face of a large-scale daemonic invasion that was spilling through the rift, and the tendril of Hive Fleet Leviathan, denied the power of its planetary feast, was being slowly torn apart by the hellspawned host that appeared within its bio-ships.

-Haemonculus Coven Codex

You will note that Hiveships are massive generators for the Shadow in the Warp. And yet they couldn't stop daemons from invading them.

No, we are not. We are putting the worsening condition of the galaxy into consideration.

Where and when the fight takes place is the most important aspect of this discussion.

This assumes they can recover their biomass. The only way the nids managed to fend off a planet-wide daemon incursion was by getting what biomass they could before they got pushed back and then set up artillery to keep them back while they stripped the half of the planet they hadn't already overrun.

I acknowledged that in my initial post. Again, like I said, anytime Chaos gets the drop on the Tyranids, Chaos wins. However, every time we've seen any kind of prolonged engagement between the two, the Tyranids take the day because Chaos loses momentum and gets out-adapted. This isn't just Shadowbrink. The Iron Warriors lost an unsiegable fortress to the Tyranids.

Notice it says that the tendril was torn apart slowly. It was a prolonged struggle, user.

>Again, like I said, anytime Chaos gets the drop on the Tyranids, Chaos wins.

Chaos got the drop in them at Shadowbrink too.
Chaos always gets the drop because it appears out of nowhere from another dimension.

>Since every other faction is basically irrelevant,
This is what's funny about Chaosfags and BugFuckers, is that they rely on "Plot relevance" like it means something. They support all manner of shit writing and retcons when powers up their faction or removes the powers of another because their Factions can't win by any real measure of quality. Without the "Doomsday threat" shilling and the "Just as Planned" asspulls, Chaos would be nothing but a bunch of Chaotic Stupid retards Pretending to be 2deep4u Lovecraftian Elder god ripoffs by acting like edgelords and saying "oh yeah, well I meant to do that" whenever something goes fucks up. And Tyranids are are just Arachnid Rip-offs that had some Zerg sprinkled on later, that only exist so the IG can reenact Starship Troopers.

Fair enough, however, counter point from the Tyranid codex, page 29, The Fall of Shadowbrink

>The buildings were tumbled ruins and the city was smothered by a blanket of muffling psionic statics that caused the Daemons to flicker and fade.

There, we have a definitive example of the Shadow in the Warp surppresing daemons and sending them back into the warp. It seems the Shadow cannot stop a warp rift, but, in time, will cause Daemons to lose connection to reality and fade back.

Here, want another example? Same book, page 30.

>Shub'Luth'Gug, Great Unclean One of Nurgle, attempted to break the deadlock and push through the Tyranid cordon. Yet even as the ponderous mountain of filth marshaled his psychic energies, they were smothered by the Shadow in the Warp.

In essence, Warp Portals > Shadow in the Warp > Daemons and their psychic powers.

>Tyanids avoid warpstorms for a reason.

Yeah, because there's no logical reason for them to go near a potential fight that they gain nothing from. That's a strength, not a weakness.

>Tyranids cannot merely out adapt everything as a matter of course.

They don't need to out adapt everything, just what they are currently fighting. All races have a weakness and when you can change your tactics to exploit that weakness in 1/3 the time your oppenent can, than you're going to win.

Actually, Shadowbrink says the Tyranids were aware of the daemons from the start, but ignored them as they weren't biomass. Not really getting the drop on them in the same essence as a warp portal opening in the middle of your fleet.

Shadowbrink says it thought was just some weird psychic anomalies.
Once the daemons started fucking with it it realized that actually it was a rival predator.

>They don't need to out adapt everything, just what they are currently fighting.

Right and Chaos has many more tricks than the Tyranids. You cannot adapt to being turned into glass while also spontaneously combusting.

Point being, they knew something was there, they just didn't pay them any heed.

Plus, it's not like Hive Fleets haven't gone in and out of warpstorms before and come out (mostly) fine.

>Point being, they knew something was there, they just didn't pay them any heed.

Right, so Chaos got the drop on them when suddenly the Nids were getting wrecked.

If you hear a noise outside and dismiss it as nothing, then suddenly you're on all fours getting buggered then the buggerer in question got the drop on you.

As stated the Shadow in the Warp can prevent Chaos from doing psychic fuckery and even cause Daemons to phase out of existence and be sent back to the warp. It can't prevent a warp portal, but anything else gets suppressed by it. Get enough Synapse Creatures in the area, and Chaos won't be able to turn anyone into glass whilst spontaneously combusting them.

>Plus, it's not like Hive Fleets haven't gone in and out of warpstorms before and come out (mostly) fine.

That was a ploy by Slaanesh.

Alright, fair enough. The Tyranids CAN beat Chaos, even when the latter gets the drop on them, as long as the drop isn't an insta win thing.

Heavily hinted to be Slaanesh's doing in both the novel and the campaign book.

I wouldn't say there's really been any of that for the Tyranids, but yeah there's a bit of that for Chaos.

My pet peeve is the people who fap to Abbadon's 'master plan'. That all of his Black Crusades are actually part of some super-secret goal that he's slowly been working toward and not one of them has ever suffered a setback or failure... completely ignoring that his Planet Killer has been destroyed twice, he's lost all but 1 of the Blackstone Fortresses, he's had countless setbacks from Imperial servants foiling rituals and turning battles against his forces, but nooooo, it's all part of his 888 Part master plan to destroy the Imperium once and for all!!! Gimme a fucking break, the Imperium would be able to endure forever under the current status quo, which is why they decided to make the Golden Throne start breaking down.

The real problem is people forget that Abbadon isn't Horus. He's compels the loyalty of the other forces because he'll kill everyone who doesn't follow him (thereby depleting his forces in pointless internal squabbling), and 'shockingly' that still doesn't stop chaos warbands from telling him to fuck off on a yearly basis. Horus could actually convince people to do what he wanted unless they were another Primarch, then it was a coin toss. But more importantly Horus was a better commander because he knew how to take a defeat, or otherwise unexpected turn of fate on the battlefield, and turn it to his advantage. Abbadon isn't that kind of commander and never will be. That's why the whole "super secret master plan that's totally working guis!" thing is total shit.

Like virtually ALL of the factions in 40K, Chaos is a spent and weakened shadow of the power it once was. The galaxy will never again quake to the tread of the Legions like it once did, though that isn't to say they aren't capable of wreaking untold destruction, but at this point they're just one of several roughly equally dangerous threats to the galaxy.

>the Shadow in the Warp can prevent Chaos from doing psychic fuckery and even cause Daemons to phase out of existence and be sent back to the warp.

It depends on the strength of whatever is keeping the daemons in the Materium.
If the Tyranids do not win quickly then it's they who will lose.

The Tyranids are the same as everyone else is this regard. If they can close whatever door Chaos used to get into the universe they can win, but they cannot withstand the sheer attrition of endless daemons.

Stop thinking of Chaos as the traitor legion.
The traitor legions are a glorified door stop.
All they need to do is open the door and let the armies of the gods get to work.