/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>How would you run a superhero/vigilante game?

Hunter. Alternatively, Changeling, if the motley REALLY buys into the superhero story.

Thanks for making me flash back to all the hours I spent playing that game.

Question,

Running a campaign where the characters reside in portland Maine, a coastal town. Already have the first episode planned, but what would be a good idea for bridging between base WoD and Hunter.

Vampions ftw.

Matter - maybe 3, with 4 super easy. Compared to possibilities of Matter was Tsar Bomba nothing.

>The Union appears, hands you a pickaxe and says "get in nerd, we're gonna go kill a demon"

I you get in - you're now a Hunter

When a Mage has to touch a target as part of casting a spell, is their Dex + Brawl roll reduced by the target's Defense?

I feel like this is an obvious Yes, but I've been spending so much time staring at the damn rulebook lately that I feel like I'm not thinking straight.

I would say yes; but he doesn't have to touch target at all, "throwing" the spell is enough. And with cheap merit, you can shoot the spell.

This, you're much better off aiming spells if you don't want to reach for Sensory range

Of course. I'm just trying to put together a reference sheet of all the options for my players (they're all new to Mage). I wanted to make sure I had the mechanics right, even if they don't end up using it very often.

Of course, I don't know if the party has a single point of Firearms OR Athletics among them, so I don't know how much better aiming's gonna do them.

New Monday meeting notes.
theonyxpath.com/looking-back-the-onyx-path-2016-monday-meeting-notes/

>How would you run a superhero/vigilante game?
I wouldn't because superheros are pure autism

are we looking at 2017 or 2018 for crossover chronicle?

cooking up a half dozen horrific viruses and spreading them all over the place.

2019. Stretch goals will expand that book, mark my words.

>Autism means anything I don't like, wah waaaaah

to be fair a lot of the movie monsters we just expect zombies sorceress mummies shapeshifters and the like were a small part of Lovecraft horror but, then they developed off onto their own. I mean LC included them but they weren't his creations either.

I'm sorry that you're so self conscious about your autism

>How would you run a superhero/vigilante game?

with a system other than CofD, for sure.

>Princess the Hopeful

>How would you run a superhero/vigilante game?
speaking of
ABERRANT
WHEN?
H
E
N
?

2020. It will be the first RPG to be played in real time.

Hey anons, just received a link to V20 Tome of Secrets from Kickstarter. I can basically buy a discounted version of this supplement book but I cannot for the life of me remember what was it even about or if there were any drafts released of this

Anyone have any info on it or maybe a pdf?

>How would you run a superhero/vigilante game?

Vampire the requiem 2nd with secrets of the covenants. Reflect magic with your sword and hurt villans with the power of poorly explained socialism

I think it has mostly new spell of blood magics for.

They don't call it the Tome of Secrets for nothing

Is it worth the money though? I remember when they released Lore of the Clans I was somewhat underwhelmed. But that was to be expected since they tried to cram so much into just one book.
Does this one have anything new in it?

I mean, I don't have a rebuttal for that, yeah

>hurr durr mummy wat dus de autism meen?

If I had a dollar for everytime you unimaginative faggots used "autism" as a insult, I could buy this board off Hiroshima Mass-Effecto myself.

Is it too much to ask you to come up with a new insult? Or did you peak in grade school so hard that you're locked in on the insults you've used since you were six?

DESU, I'm actually surprised more characters in the WoD don'[t use a nom de plum and a disguise. There's nothing stopping them, and it makes a bit of sense.

"Who did this? I bet it was the Nosferatu!"
"Actually, the guy was wearing a sugar-skull mask. He called himself "El Mariachi" and had a machine gun hidden in a guitar. It was pretty badass."
"Bad... ass?"
"It's modern slang, my liege."
"I DON'T CARE IF IT'S CLASSICAL GREEK!! BRING ME THE HEAD OF EL MARIACHI!!!!"

I believe it's one of those overflow books that contained material they couldn't cram into the 700 page hit-and-miss phonebooks they produced for the 20th anniversary line. There's one for Mage that even contains actual rules and usable content between the sound of Satyros Brucatto masturbating all over the page!

If provoking sleepers counts, then space 2 is probably the most efficient. You could find some secret that would start a war by being patient and through enough with scrying.

>There's one for Mage

1? No user, there is fucking 3. "How do you do that?" and Books of secrets 1 & 2.

Speaking of, how good is that translation guide?

Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

If *anyone* from OPP or WWP is reading this; please, please, for the love of Christ, never hire Brucatto or the incompetent fuck he had for typesetting and layout, ever again. M20 is the greatest disappointment in the entire history of the IP. A 700 page sourcebook, ostensibly about fucking MAGES, and the core rulebook couldn't even print consistent and coherent rules for fucking SPELLCASTING.

Where the book goes from "useless crap" to "hahaha, fuck you for liking this game" is when Brucatto adds little touches like the Aura Colour chart. Under "Nephandi" it says
>wouldn't you like to know?
Yes, PHILLIP, if I paid $100 for this piece of shit, I really would like to know. I would really like you to actually do your fucking job, instead of wiping nearly 700 pages with your ass and then laughing smugly at anyone fucking retarded enough to encourage you.

>tfw the only book for M20 not ruined by Shityros Brucatto is a fucking cookbook

M20 got a cookbook? Share?

oWoD fans are whinier than CofD fans. Huh.

>Where the book goes from "useless crap" to "hahaha, fuck you for liking this game" is when Brucatto adds little touches like the Aura Colour chart. Under "Nephandi" it says
>>wouldn't you like to know?
>Yes, PHILLIP, if I paid $100 for this piece of shit, I really would like to know. I would really like you to actually do your fucking job, instead of wiping nearly 700 pages with your ass and then laughing smugly at anyone fucking retarded enough to encourage you.

Wait. Is that seriously what it says?
I mean, I was never a fan of Ascension (I dislike the base premise), so I didn't care about this.
But is this book really this bad?

Watching Mage fans get shit on is always great

I thought it was Awakening we hated?

I'll take all I can get

It's really hard to sympathize with mage haters when the rest of the game lines are emo-bait, furry-bait, or othekin-bait

How would you make a Cabal based around something like the FFL or a mercenary unit work? I need them for a possible antagonist/ally.

I already have a name (Cabale Étrangère) a basic background (formed by a former mercenary who was the sole survivor of a failed coup in an African shithole, Dogs of War style, and would up in New Orleans for various reasons while attracting various ne'er do wells), but I cant decide whether they're;

>Glorified magical mercs working for Cabals/Orders while being looked down on as honorless soldiers of fortune; No job too dirty
>Influenced by the Adamantine Arrow to become something similar to Freikorps, investigating/fighting threats to the community they settled into out of a sense of patriotism/attachment instead of money

Honorless mercenaries or dogs of war with hearts of gold?

I'd read up on the Free Companies. It is an Adamantine Arrow heresy, mentioned in chapter 1 of Left-Hand Path.

Or rather, how easy is it to move edges from old into new? I can probably handle the fluff myself

I know that the Arrow doesnt like mercs which is why if they were option 1 they'd be hated on by pretty much everyone but used under the table anyway.

Under option 2 they dont take money for their jobs. They do it because they like to fight, know how to fight, and want to use their skills for the betterment of New Orleans awakened community. As far as I'm aware, the AA wouldnt lose their shit over that

Are there any good youtubers/streamers for wod stuff? I wanna get a feel for the tabletop games but can't play myself

I don't suppose there are any scans of Hurt Locker available?

Hurt Locker was already shared.

Search the last threat.

We are still waiting for Signs of Sorcery.

Thanks doll.

Opps. I meant we're still waiting for a share of Secrets of the Covenants (although Signs of Sorcery is still languishing in the "Development" void).

>M20 got a cookbook? Share?
It's still in pre-production. Phil went on record as saying he was handing it off to other writers.

>oWoD fans are whinier than CofD fans. Huh.
You consider a valid complaint about being robbed by an overly expensive, yet hopelessly broken sourcebook to be "whining"? Quick, send me all your money, I have a super-rare sourcebook, it's The Chaos Factor in a special "half the cover is torn off" edition.

Please, tell me about how wonderful Beast is, and how efficient the rules of Geist are. Sit down with me as we read Changing Breeds and glue the original, uncensored artwork back in.

>There are stats for various vehicles, and they're ridiculously though; a jeep has Durability 4, making it almost impevious to pistol fire. Even more interesting is that a 105mm tank shell (20 damage) averages 8 Health levels, which is not enough to destroy a jeep, limousine, pickup truck, SUV/Van, off-road truck, HMMVW, RV, bus, or any kind of large truck. Sure, everyone inside will be dead from spill-through damage, but the vehicle is not fully destroyed. Even more egregious are the military vehicle stats given. The APC has durability 12, making it almost impossible to pierce with a 105mm tank gun (6% chance)... and on average it'll be fine after a hit from a 120mm tank gun. The game's Light Tank has 15 side armour, making only 1 in 6 shots even cause damage. Modern tanks are tough, but not this though. The APC should be perforated by any tank gun, and the side armour of tanks is nowhere near tough enough to take 120mm shells without issue.

>The weapons given for each vehicle are also ridiculous; the Light Tank mounts, in addition to the 105mm gun, two .50 calibre machine guns and two grenade launchers. This is ridiculous; no 'light tank' has ever mounted this much. The only tank that comes close are certain variants of the Centurion tank, and it didn't have the grenade launchers. The Heavy Tank mounts, in addition to the 120mm gun, three .50 calibre machine guns and four grenade launchers. Again ridiculous; certain versions of the M1A1 Abrams might have been mounted with three .50 calibre machine guns, but this is not standard; the standard M1-family tank has 2 .50 calibre machine guns and 1 .30 calibre machine gun. No other tank of which I am aware (and trust me, I am aware of a lot of tanks, courtesy of playing a lot of Wargame: Red Dragon ) mounts the number of guns the Heavy Tank in M20 does, and certainly nobody mounts four grenade launchers on their tank. They might mount one or two and load them with smoke grenades. Lethe, some of the machine guns are even given as being hull-mounted , which hasn't been a thing since the 1950's.

>There are aircraft stats too; the 105mm gun can't expect to destroy news helicopters, small propeller aircraft, or hot-air balloons in one shot either. The Attack Helicopter has as much armour as an APC.

>projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/latwpiat/mage-the-ascension-20th-anniversary-edition/

I want to know what Virtual Adepts eat. I also want CofD cookbooks. I just think cookbooks is such a ridiculous idea, I love that Apocalypse has one. RPG cookbooks should be a thing.

Also, I find most of the whining about M20 to be kind of like the whining of MtAw2e. That is to say a lot of bitching about rules that aren't integral as if they were, and the usual complaining that the writers are political and that those politics aren't the poster's politics, or if they are, the concern that they're too overt, because the poster believes politics "don't belong in games" or something like that. When your first complaint is that the dangerous deadly mysterious faction's aura description is an eyerolling joke, it gives me the impression that you don't really have any more concrete complaints.

Even then, most of these complaints are about a game that intentionally didn't bother tightening up known to be shitty mechanics. If you're still buying Mage books at this point without liking what you're buying, Einstein and/or the antagonist from Far Cry 3 probably has some advice for you about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Also, I don't think Mister Rogers would approve of the phrase
>I would really like you to actually do your fucking job, instead of wiping nearly 700 pages with your ass and then laughing smugly at anyone fucking retarded enough to encourage you.
regardless of context

But all of those things are more mechanically sound than Mage: the Ascension has ever been :^)

>bridging between base WoD and Hunter.

NWoD Newb here, I was wondering is their any mechanical difference between a Base WoD Mortal and a Hunter aside from the goodies Hunters can get from their Compact or Conspiracy?

Ok, I'm a CofD idiot here, but don't those weapons have some kind of penetration or anything?

Look up the Gentleman Gamer

>answers the original question with "stop liking what I don't like!" rather than just ignoring the topic

> the -other- guy is the autist

denial isn't just a river in Egypt

Oh, OPP, in what dark times would we've lived without you to guide the way.

Eh? It's not like they really used the word count for anything else, so far the best stuff is the armory, the range band rules, and the new merits and all of those have space to my satisfaction. If they want to toss in two paragraphs about maybe not being a dick to disabled people it's not going to negatively affect me.

>OPP talks shit about merit and flaw systems
You know maybe taking a missing limb as a flaw is not saying that disability gives you superpowers anymore than taking an enemy as a flaw does.

Fuck.

Also, disabilities are in fact a "negative value." Fuck, I don't know what I'd do if I even lost a few fingers, nevermind my ability to walk or use two hands.

You can lose your pinky and ring finger and still have roughly 80% of your manual dexterity

That's still a 20% loss. Not exactly something I'd be super down with.

>That is to say a lot of bitching about rules that aren't integral as if they were

1) your sentence parses as if you just had a stroke, but
2) are you saying that the rules on MAGICK in a game about MAGES are not integral to the game? GTFO

>But all of those things are more mechanically sound than Mage: the Ascension has ever been :^)

>Geist
>mechanically sound
>Changing Breeds
>mechanically sound
>Beast
>mechanically sound

I genuinely can't tell whether your smugness and verifiably false position is due to incompetence, psychotic delusion or stupidity.

Even if you're trolling, it still falls under stupidity.

In M20 you need to roll 4 successes to shoot someone *inside* a car, which means that you automatically do extra damage the moment you hit. Also, the vehicles in the examples given (a hot air balloon, for example) can survive a direct hit from a tank cannon that kills the occupants and leaves the vehicle good to go.

#brucattologic

It's bad at explaining its own magic system. which is like the entire point of being a mage, even though We're had twenty years. In fact we went backwards with additional rules that merely added confusion [[Locking]], the actual what sphere magic does section is smaller than the it was in revised, and the charts and connected texts are miles apart to the point of uselessness

And God why did I need to read How you do it. Likes it's a fucking secret to confirm a standard scrying effect?!??? It was in Revised just fine.

The editing is terrible because the author did his own editing, and made it less readable. 700pages of rehashed material. with a mess of explanation, for what is suppose to be the core book. I want the mechanics not the ideology behind magic. Mechanics I can run a game. Ideology doesn't help run games

So you have a bunch of people who'd worked years through the mechanics and setting to get a rough idea of how the game works. Then you have the closest thing to word of god on mechanics to finally end debates, but it's just more confusion.

This is why I didn't share the pdf with the thread.

Honestly I want games that have discussions like this. I don't know why people are so antagonistic to games that do anything more than give them mechanics and a hermiticly sealed setting.

>You know maybe taking a missing limb as a flaw is not saying that disability gives you superpowers anymore than taking an enemy as a flaw does.
Which... is how it works in those systems.
Missing fingers doesn't mean that you're somehow inherently worth less as a human being. Otherwise, since I'm assuming you're an American male, chances are you're worth less than someone with all of their dickskin. And you don't even get any bonus freebie points for that!

>That is to say a lot of bitching about rules that aren't integral as if they [that is, the rules that aren't integral] were integral.

And I'm pretty sure Mage 20th Anniversary Edition gives you plenty of rules about magick™. It's quite a large book.

Mage: The Ascension isn't a very high bar to clear.
Also, I think you may just not know what the term "mechanically sound" means. It doesn't just mean "I don't like the mechanics".
Something not being mechanically sound would be more like... increasing your chance of botch when you increase your competency.

Well it's not like they could just steal Awakening's much more useful system. Either Awakening, where you're given very concrete examples of what can be done (not that 1e wasn't notorious for ignoring them).

>implying circumcision is as inhibiting as losing fingers
My dad lost a few fingers and I remember him constantly bitching about how much it sucked.

So, yeah, if you measure humans by their abilities, losing limbs does make you worth less.

>Honestly I want games that have discussions like this. I don't know why people are so antagonistic to games that do anything more than give them mechanics and a hermiticly sealed setting.
I suppose you're also down with games discussing things that you don't agree with as well?

Hunters can "risk" willpower when spending it for additional effects. They also have a few semi-exclusive merits, tactics and used to be the only ones with access to professions.

>because the author did his own editing
Wait WHAT!?
Why was this allowed?!

Did your dad get rewarded with extra character creation points when he lost his fingers?
Less down, but if you think that games are simply about the mechanics and a hermetic setting and nothing more, then you're wrong.

It probably wasn't. Don't believe things you read on the internet, kid.

>Did your dad get rewarded with extra character creation points when he lost his fingers?
So, from a mechanical point of view, why would you ever disable your character if there was nothing to even it out? I mean, good on you for wanting to be simulationist with that but seriously that makes playing disabled characters far less appealing.

Anyone who needs their fucking gaming books to tell them to "maybe not be a dick to disabled people" isn't going to be helped by that paragraph.

Maybe OPP is subtly admitting that much of their fanbase is made up of sociopaths?

That WOULD explain Beast.

Wow. This reads like those overly self-conscious white guys that get weird asking black people how they take their coffee.

>Black, or... or.... um... not... so black...?

But my favourite part, by and large, is this;
>by providing bonus points to create a character, unwittingly perpetuating the stereotype that disabilities always inspire exceptional prowess

Here I was laboring under the delusion it was to ensure balanced character creation and offset a serious limitation.

Also, I am disabled, and it has very much placed "negative value" on my life. I have to struggle against stereotyping, belittling, ignorance and the condition itself.

The only useful part of that entire diatribe is the reminder to include social, mental and moral problems as well as beating arse.

I feel for you, bro. Prettty much my thoughts exactly. I walk with a cane from childhood, what've you got?

>And I'm pretty sure Mage 20th Anniversary Edition gives you plenty of rules about magick™. It's quite a large book.

Are you retarded? No-one is saying there are no rules about Magick, they're saying the rules are broken, contradictory, hard to understand, overly harsh, overly stupid, prone to bizarre quirks, "mechanically unsound", broken up and spread across the book, and in the case of Aura Colors, literally left unfinished with a smartass remark.

>Mage: The Ascension isn't a very high bar to clear.
stop_liking_wot_I_don't_like.png

>Also, I think you may just not know what the term "mechanically sound" means. It doesn't just mean "I don't like the mechanics".

Oh? I was referring to the fact there is no reason or mechanic to reinforce doing anything Geist-y in Geist. Beast, meanwhile, has this;
>a beast with the atavisms Cyclopen Strength and Looming Presence, spending a point of satiety on the Presence, and with a Lair rating of 5, can bench an object of size 90. Size of Beast becomes 5+(2Lair) with Presence, and Strength allows him to deadlift size(Lair+1), so 15*6=90 Now, after I learned of this, I did some searching around for exactly what would have a size of 90. I found a rather nice equation here;
reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRPG/comments/3cmpul/question_about_the_size_attribute/
That gives the rule of thumb of (1.5*size)-1or2=height in feet, with human dimensions and volume. I made the assumption of human dimensions being about 6:2:1, plugged the scale up with the average weight if a human in kilos, and came up with 3533790kg. The maths is questionable, I know, but it's the best I can do. To put this in perspective, Wolfram tells me that's about 1.3 times the weight of the Saturn V rocket. With a couple more dots in Lair, or the Giant merit, I can see that reaching enough to throw the Statue of Liberty some distance.

(cont.)

Plenty of people will play characters with drawbacks for no points. But the section that was quoted does more than just say "you shouldn't give bonus points for flaws", it explains why nWoD doesn't do that. It also doesn't say "don't be a dick to disabled people.

Sometimes I wonder how this thread comes up with such ridiculous excuses to hate everything the game stands for.
You people do some crazy mental gymnastics. Then again, with this thread, "don't be a dick" *should* be what it said.

>Wow. This reads like those overly self-conscious white guys that get weird asking black people how they take their coffee.
It reads nothing like that.

(cont.)
>Now, since throwing the Statue of Liberty around New York probably counts as a prerequisite for becoming a Beast Incarnate, you could take the Legendary Size monster trait, and one would hope you've got Lair 10. The result? Size of 35. 3533790kg becomes, very approximately, 3533790000000kg, taking liberties on the maths, and you can lift 0.04% of earth's biomass. You could lift up every human on earth many thousand times over. Mount Everest 1.5 times. I don't think there's a being outside the realms of the Gentry and maybe the Threshold that could contend with that sheer power. Energywise, the individual, lifting that much by [(35*1.5)-1.5=51ft, 15metres] makes about 0.12 megatons of TNT... Of course, the Beast would probably also be vaporised by falling damage thanks to Newtons Third Law, unless you understand that the rules are not supposed to be taken scientifically literally.
>reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRPG/comments/3dyyr0/beast_the_primordial_munchkin_characters/

Changing Breeds? This says everything and more;
projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/daeren/changing-breeds/

>Something not being mechanically sound would be more like... increasing your chance of botch when you increase your competency.

Is.... is that supposed to be some kind of underhanded barb over oWoD's botch system? Wow. You silly bitch, you only count the *first* one you roll. Failure is more common than botching.

How do you argue about books you don't read, Aspel?

>Did your dad get rewarded with extra character creation points when he lost his fingers?

Real life isn't ruled by character creation rules, Aspel.

We play these games to get away from real life, Aspel.

The world of darkness isn't real life, Aspel.

But will someone play someone without legs for no discernible benefits, in a game where that presumably has an effect? No. Hell, even when there is a benefit I hardly see it because having no legs mean's you're incapable of literally everything a normal human does with the lower half of their body.

Development
Brucato
Bill Bridges

Authors
Brucato: primary text
Brian Campbell: Technocratic Union
John Snead: Appendix I entires
Rachelle Sabrina Udell: Disparate Allies

Additional material
Bill Bridges (Society of Ether)
Jackie Cassada, Nicky Rea: fiction for select chapters
Jesse Heinig: Virtual Adepts
Deena McKinney: Sisters of Hyppolyta
Allan Varney: Akashayana, Celestial Chorus, Order of Hermes

No editor is listed. Brucatto claimed the job as part of development. It fucking shows. It obviously hurt to cut a single line of his smug bullshit.

You mean I'm not a real vampire?

Does that means I can go into the sun?

>Did your dad get rewarded with extra character creation points when he lost his fingers?

Was yours built using a 5/4/3 pool of dots?

Schizophrenia. I have to put up with half the people I meet thinking I have multiple personalities, and the other half thinking I'm two inches from flipping out and killing them. I also have a daily "addiction" to anti-psychotics that has to be fed or I can be forcibly detained and forced to drug myself, before I become a risk to myself, other people or property.

Respect knuckles, buddy. At least you can smash dickheads with your cane if they bother you, hey?

What mechanics do you feel the game doesn't have? Like, core integral mechanics. Not fringe situations or anything like that, I mean specifics.
>stop_liking_wot_I_don't_like.png
Are you really that myopic? I was literally replying to someone doing the same Goddamned thing. Probably you, in fact. Listing off how terrible nWoD games were. I just took your same argument back at you. And, yes, they are more mechanically sound.

"Beasts can throw the Statue of Liberty really far if they combine two powers and get high level!" isn't mechanically unsound.

Neither does a lack of carrots or sticks for Geist. Geist doesn't even really have *good* mechanics, but for the most part they're sound. They work. They're uninspired, too powerful in some places and useless in others, but they function.

And do I need to go find the blog post by Justin Achilli where they said they're aware of the problem with Botches, but they'd leave it in the 20th anniversary games anyway?

You know, I can't help but notice that "the game should be more realistic" and "the game is just a game and shouldn't be realistic" are always both used to dismiss any criticism.

>You people do some crazy mental gymnastics.

Yes, what right does a disabled user have to complain about being patronised over "ableism" by a bunch of losers that don't understand what the concept of "balanced character creation" means, amirite?