So, I'm playing a 3.5 campaign with a bunch of rather new players, and a new GM who isn't very familiar with the game...

So, I'm playing a 3.5 campaign with a bunch of rather new players, and a new GM who isn't very familiar with the game. I'm familiar with it, and there's another player who serves as the 'assistant GM', to help the real GM run the game. But here's a rules issue that we stumbled over, so I wanted to talk with Veeky Forums to see what you guys think about it.

Wandering around a forest. Bunch of characters- less than half are little hirelings/cohorts/whatevers. We stumble across a pretty simple encounter- Crazy druid, humanoid bears with weapons and barbarian levels, that kind of thing. We fight a little bit, and then the 'assistant GM' comes up with a brilliant plan, which he passes a note to one of the newer players, a sorceress. She nods. Then the Ass.GM runs into the center of the bears, uses a 'Kiai Smite' ability that samurai get (which TOTALLY acts as a 'taunt' to call all the monsters to attack him, rather than do anything silly like boost his attack rolls. Don't ask.) and then signals the sorceress.

The sorceress borrows my wizard's metamagic chaining rod, and decides to chain fireball. It's fully impossible because of the fact that chain needs a target, and I say so. The 'assistant GM' claims that it's totally possible, you just need to select one of the enemies as a 'single target' (for a 20-foot spread).

Shit's impossible to actually do, and this assistant GM- the other experienced player- has been pulling this kind of shit the entire game. Claiming that the rules are a certain way when they aren't, or whining when we decide to make range increments act the way the rules state because 'why bring up shit that we haven't ever used before'.

So yeah. What do I do? And what should I recommend the GM do?

Damn, on my phone so I can't reply with Veeky Forumscustserve.jpg.

Have you cosidered not playing D&D? Or not playing D&D with people that blatently ignore the rules? Or playing 4e were the rules are even harder to fudge?

I considered it, and tried talking the GM into trying something else (I recommended Savage Worlds and then 5e), but they had decided not to.

Long story short, I'm the GM's friend from years back, and they asked me to come help with things. But it's hard to tell them 'oh, just kick the Assistant guy out' because I don't want to be the kind of asshole that causes group drama.

I've been gaming since 1989 as a GM and player. Truly, I do not understand the very concept of an assistant GM. It seems a unnecessary and superflous position. I've never seen it in action nor heard of it being done IRL.

I think the reason for the "assistant dm"... from the sounds of it.... is because this new dm doesnt know everything and perhaps doesnt want to break the game or rules.

My question is.... has the full dm... the non-assistant; tried to call put the ass-dm?

Out rather

It was more because the GM was pretty unfamiliar with the game, and they wanted someone who would be able to answer stupid questions like 'what the hell is a Range Increment' and 'Would this person get an attack of opportunity for doing X?' And in practice is just kind of giving half-assed or outright houseruled answers.

From what it sounds like, they have had some private discussions. But the assistant GM is basically being a petulant jerk. I'll probably link the real GM this thread later.

If they're such a jerk then shouldn't the GM just kick the player and be done with it? Have they tried an ultimatum of any kind? And other than house ruling answers to increments, is there any real harm to the DM That the ass-dm is doing?

I have a fellow scheemer, but he is far from a "dm assistant". he might draw up some encounter lists or the occassional dungeon, but he never knows enough to detract from gameplay and its a good way for him to get the basics of dm'ing down. he will also double-check rules for me and help with character advancement for the other players between levels.

They're giving outright wrong answers to questions, bending rules whenever possible, explicitly stating that abilities don't do what the book says they do, and before the GM told him to cut that shit out he was taking spells and classes from unbalanced third-party sources.

He also talked the GM into giving him magical armor. When the GM said yes (and gave all of the players magic items, to be fair), he decided that his armor is some bullshit legacy/relic shit that upgrades as he gains levels, and took it without the GM's permission. And he's the kind of asshole who would raise his voice and talk over the GM (who can be pretty meek about that kind of thing) and say something dumb about how 'You gave it to me!'

Honestly, I don't know why they haven't kicked the player or given an ultimatum. I totally would have.

See, that's ideal. That's probably the best way to do things.

A meek Dungeon Master wtf. The Dungeon Master is the leader of the fucking group. Harden the fuck up DM. Kick out that disruptive player asap.

.....how new is this DM to be so meek? Is there a reason they're bot strong willed? Can you fill us in on the DM a bit as to what the full details are? I'm tryong to get a better grasp of the full situation but if the DM gets talked over...why is the player in the game in the first place. Makes me curious to know more about the DM and the group.

Depending on how new the DM is may make sense about why they are meek.

>Rules change as the GM's sees fit without informing previously to players
>Game is inconsistent as fuck
I'd leave, nothing annoys me more than that

From here on out, to make things clear, I'll be calling the assistant the 'Ass' For 'Rules Assistant', not anything else while the actual GM I'll call the 'GM'

Meek is probably the wrong way to word it. The GM is new to gaming in general (other than a few aborted campaigns months ago) and this is basically their first campaign as GM. They decided to grab someone (Ass) who knew the game to help. This normally wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the fact that he's an ass, and either doesn't know the rules as well as he says, or is explicitly deciding to explain things that aren't true.

The Ass the kind of person who raises his voice until people cave in with what he says, and the GM is too unsure to call him out on shit. I've been picking up the slack and calling him out, but for the most part I'm 'just a player', so it's hard for me to feel it's my place to talk about the rules and shit.

It's a group that developed out of a bunch of friends, so any kind of game drama will spill over into real drama, and I think the GM's just kind of stuck with that, wanting to make their friends happy even if one of those friends are a disruptive shit. I'm pretty lucky in that I'm an outsider to most of it and I don't know anyone but the GM.

I've been tempted, trust me, but the rest of the game is awesome. People are chill, we're having adventures, we've got an overarching plot and personal storylines, classes who kick ass and the GM's actually being really good about statting enemies up for us. It's only this one disruptive half-player/sub-GM/whatever-the-fuck that's being a problem.

It got to the point where the GM asked me to 'get some advice from the internet somewhere, I know you go to that kind of place' so here I am.

As the GM Ive been trying to make the players have as much fun as possible but I dont wanna have to be 'THAT DM' that gets talked about... that DM that horribly fucks up. I have extremely bad self confidence, but even without the 'Ass' I am confident in my learning, somewhat, so I try to do better than he thinks to prove I can. But on the other hand I feel like he's holding me up to a standard I just can't rise up to. It's to the point where when he DOES correct me I wanna cave every time.

Its also that the 'Ass' uses the SAME tone that my ex used for three years. Emotional abuse does things to someone, and when the same tone comes from anyone friend or not it makes you wanna fall into old... beaten down patterns where I feel I can't/don't want to fight back

I dont want to be mean though and kicking people from the group is definitely that

Don't let the Ass push you around. They're doing a worse job than you. Remind them their place. This will never make you a bad GM

How are they doing worse than me?

... and how do I remind them of their place without being a complete jerk?

You are the mother fucking dungeon MASTER. Master is in there for a reason. It sure as fuck isn't "player fun" whatever the fuck that is. You rule the table with an iron hand. You are the alpha and the omega. You control worlds, nay universes! You weave a mutli-layered tapestry textured with theme and subject matter for your players to explore. They should grovel to play at your table. It is a privillage, nay an honor to toss the dice with you. Players are a dime a dozen but a Dungeon Master he is the one that makes it all possible. All hail the DUNGEON MASTER!

Stop worrying about being a jerk you are the DM. If they don't like it good luck finding another table that puts up with their antics.

I have been a forever DM since 1989 and I wouldn't tolerate such disrespect for one second.

Let me tell you about the last guy I threw out. I was running a traditional Greyhawk campaign using 5E rules. Going to take some of my younger/newer players through some of the great modules of yore so they could experience the classics. I had a new player get lippy about doing being able to play a Dragonborn character. I patiently explained to him that Dragonborn and tieflings as I explained in the pre-game email I sent don't exist as player character races in Oerth. He quiped "Are we playing the same game" as he held up his 5E player handbook. I asked him to leave on the spot. Good riddance.

As in all sporting contests the Umpire is infallible, so too is the DM . I will entertain rules arguments after the fact and in private not on the field of battle. My rulings are final and I will not stand for such insolence and disrespect at my table, in my home, in my game.

It is a matter of perceived value. So let me break it down for you A skilled Game Master is worth many times over a whiny ASS of a player.

Most players are looking for a Game Master worth his salt.

Is this ruining the experience for anybody else in the group?

If this is a new group, they'll get the rules more formalized eventually. Fact of the matter is you knew what you were signing up for and now you're whining because new players aren't as veteran as you.

If this legitimately only bothers you, you are the one with the problem.

Other players had been getting into arguments with him too, though most of the group seems pretty shy. Kinda makes the Ass more of an Ass.

But not that this matters anymore. The GM just sent me a text to say that they're kicking the guy out, at least in part because of user's overwhelming response. A huge 'dear john' open letter into the group's chat talking about how the Ass has been an issue, disrupting the game, that kind of stuff.

So... Happy ending! Until all the drama pops up and the group explodes.