What level 20 commoner would be like?

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I can really only imagine some sort of idiot savant in respect to some of the commoner class skills. Basically Simple Jack

A ridiculously hardy frontier farmer.

The mayor.

So fucking common their speech is incomprehensible.

So common you can't even see them in a crowd.

So common that muck just falls off of him, even when he's just bathed.

>commoners
>levels
Move on to 5e already.

d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/commoner.htm

I'm pretty sure the idea of commoner levels was considered stupid in its own time

A harem Protagonist.
Only skills are mostly housework related.
Hardy against abuse.
Bland.

Commoner in Pic related.

Think anime. You're in a tavern and there's burly, rough guys making a big noise in the corner, annoying everyone. The attractive but otherwise unassuming barmaid comes to their table with the classic shut eyes and big smile asking them nicely to be quiet. Defying all logic the men submit immediately.

So think someone who does a normal, non specialized task but is highly regarded and respected by the entire town/city

He basically gained fighter levels and all relevant feats to a given weapon whenever he wielded it though

Best lvl20 commoner coming through

That was the Gandalfr enchantment on him. He even lost it for some time. I see it as a permanent buff spell.

That looks like aristocrat levels to me, assuming he isn't just some sort of wizman

Wouldn't he be an Aristocrat?

Class-wise this is still commoner.

A level 1 pc.

It's more like a level 10 PC with extra HP and no specialization

You go to Helga's bar. You order. You shut up. Make noise and Helga crush your face.

youtube.com/watch?v=K8a5jLedBak&t=1m0s

A dwarf worker that lived through the doom of his hold, dwarf fortress stile.

Luca from Berserk. She is the rock that lesser commoners cling to get them through the hell that is the world. She's a common prostitute who meets demons, spectres and tormented souls from the bowels of hell face to face and passes them by without really effecting them but without a scratch on her. She's so common that she doesn't accomplish anything greater than just being a good, kind and smart person in a world where those are extremely rare traits, but great things constantly happen around her. Basically, the most effective a powerless side character can be.

...I want to make a story about a legendary commoner warrior now

Humble origins isn't really a new concept

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There is the Warrior class though.

A hermit Troll, centuries old.

Not a warrior. Just a farmer and occasional odd job man.

Impossible. You can't gain enough XP for just farming and if he was actually facing danger on regular basis and had the grit to come out on top that would mean he switched to warrior or picked some kind of PC class. Even if it's just a fighter.

youtube.com/watch?v=em8QtaDOZt0

A village elder. The matron/patron of his or her family, nearing the end of life and yet still full of vigor. Exceptionally wise, skilled in a number of crafts, and instantly commanding of respect from other common folk. May know some herbalism that borders on true magic. A person hardened and scared by a lifetime of toil who's come out of it with about as much worldliness as a single person can have.

I actually had one in my first campaign. The PCs were there for a tournament where the local king was going to find his bodyguard (the tournament winner), which was where they met him. Name was Johnny, just Johnny. He didn't actually expect to win against some of the big names there, literally the only reason he participate was to market his produce. Essentially, his sales pitch was that his produce would make you as fast and strong as he was.

People kinda laughed him off at first, he -was- basically just a very cheery farmer with a sickle. Then he won his first match against a halfling with two pet drakes, and suddenly his produce started selling pretty well.

So lets start with levels. Level 20 means they have been through some shit. They have seen and survived and bested far too many challenges that have felled lesser men. But they aren't like Malkazod the Lucifugal who has sealed the demon general Athraxas in a deep dark pit.

When it comes to skill, as a say a farmer, they make the best crops in the world. I'm going to use PF rules since I like them. We'll give him completely average stats, tens across the board with an 8 in say Dex, well fluff this as an injury in childhood which makes him a bit clumsy. He has profession farmer as his major skill, and has a base +23 in it. Let's say he was always a bit wiser than his other human friends, and thus has +1 wis mod from the +2 to any stat humans get this will only get bigger as he ages and levels. This gets him a total of +24 before any bonuses from masterwork equipment, minor magical trinkets, feats, and other things.

He earns plenty of money farming to sustain quite a lot of people. This equates to 12 gold per week, a huge pay for a simple farmer. He more than likely oversees the entire farmlands for whatever lord he resides under.

As commoners get 2+Int mod/level skill ranks, we'll give him Handle Animal as his other skill, at +23 he doesn't need to roll on pretty much any Handle Animal skill check except to "Push" an animal, Rear certain strong wild animals, teach the Entertain trick to an animal. Taking the feat Skill Focus (Handle Animal) will make it such that all animals obey him on any task.

He is capable of handling pretty much any animal and can make them do what he wants with a few words and stares.

He is basically the most respected farmer in the region he lives in, and everyone who has any need for advice on farming or animals comes to him.

>Climb
>Swim
>Jump

The lvl 20 commoner climbs mountains, swims lakes and jumps houses.

You just know all his skill points are spent on Profession (farmer) and Handle Animal though. He probably has 1 other skill (average human commoner has 3 skill points/level), so the average farmer can do one of those things. Of course, a commoner who doesn't require the Profession skill for some reason probably can do all of those things. I don't know what kind of commoner that is though.

He could be working as a tracker or wilderness guide or hunter for his village (with his one weapon prof being sling or something) or be a (long-distance) messenger.

He also doesn't have to be in fantasy europe. Maybe he's a dowser for water in arid regions and has to traverse a lot of terrain to go searching for spots, or similar stuff, or his community needs to rely on foraging in some fashion.

Actually come to think of it..... the lvl 20 commoner is a mangy seadog.

He's a highly proficient swimmer, and he can climb the rigging faster than anyone, plus he has a ton of nautical knowledge from Profession (Sailor). He's been on the seas for many years, running trade routes all over the world and weathering storms.

Mainly because there's no aristocrat class in anima or any that resembles it.

How can there be a class divide between commoner and nobleman if there are no classes :^)

So basically the Old man from "The Old Man and the Sea".

There can't, get ready Filthy Bourgeoisie, the waters of time bring about the waves of change, and you can either sink and drown, or swim and live.

That picture never fails to make me laugh.

Considering Einstein was level 5 at best, I don't know is it's something we can accurately imagine

A level 20 commoner would be a folk hero.

Fuckin Johnny Appleseed up in here.

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Top level.

Alright, let's take a look at the class first.
1d4 Hit Dice,
2+int modifier skill points per level.
1/2 Base Attack Bonus
All saves are poor saves.

Now, you get XP in the system based on encounters, but the DMG and practical experience state that you can have Non-Combat encounters, so let's not pretend it's impossible to level up as a commoner living a common lifestyle; every day is a table of mundane encounters, but most of them are negligible trials after having dealt with them over and over again so Commoners don't often gain very many levels. The ones that do will need to have spent their lives learning and trying new commoner things. Traveling around, meeting new people, trying tourist things, enjoying life, being heartbroken when that chance tryst ends up being nothing more when you'd built it up in your mind as something grand, etc. A Commoner does normal people things, but they do them with such variety and enthusiasm as to make it something unimaginably meaningful.

Let's not forget that there are plenty of feats one can take just by gaining HD. A level 20 commoner isn't terribly powerful by comparison of an adventurere with the same ECL, but they Are capable of a wide variety of things. Maybe they've become a worldly traveller and picked up feats that reflect survival, wisdom, and insights gained from all over the world; not a lot of them mind you, they were staying in the relatively safe touristy places and knew what danger looked like and how to avoid it by lvl 5. Maybe they've taken the Fae heritage feats, and while they're common in their nature they can none the less perform wonders that would make them either a pariah among their people or a local affinity and icon. Nevermind that Nymph's Kiss can give you +1 skill point per level.

Really, the best example that comes to mind off-hand is Twoflower of Diskworld.

There is actually an Aristocrat class in the SRD, and a better one in Dragonlance that gives semi-bardic inspiration effects without the spells.

If I remember the town generation rules in the 3.5 DMG it was entirely possible that there would be level 20 commoners if not more likely than most classes. I have no idea why anyone would ever actually use that shit though

Good call mate.

Another good example.

It cause exact opposite reaction from me - instant mood killer

Best example.

Cityscape probably changed all that. I've always wanted to run a Cityscape focussed campaign, but it never materalized. Also in-depth mapmaking tools for city-internal stuff are hard to find.

>Johnny Appleseed
That's a Rogue, you moron. And pretty low level one

>Folk hero
>Cider producer building a network of orchards full of apples useless for making anything else than cider
I'm not sure you understand how being folk hero works. But what to expect from American anyway, if this shit passes for "folk" and "hero"

Yeah, it's pretty easy to figure out.

Robin Hood's a folk hero. He was some sort of Ranger/Bard/Rogue situation.

Not really? American folk heroes have always been relatively simple people.

Johnny Appleseed was a kind, generous man who walked all across America. He always got along with animals, and even though people were always offering him a place to stay or a warm meal, he never wanted to bother them so thenonpy way to get him to stay for a while was with apple pie, his favorite and the one thing he could never turn down. A lot of his stories aren't meant to be totally literal though, his habit of planting apple trees and giving people apples was meant to be a show of generosity despite Johnny being essentially a wandering hobo. In some versions of his story I've heard though, the trees he planted and the apples he brought actually saved a town from starvation, which technically makes him a legitimate hero (albeit a very simple one).

Paul Bunyan was just a big lumberjack with a huge axe and a giant pet ox with blue skin. He's relatively simple too but still a folk hero, all he did was cut trees and be a generally friendly dude, the "hero" part comes from him being so damn good at his job.

Then there's John Henry, a black railroad worker. He had a hammer that was, in some versions, made from the chains he had on as a slave which he broke after he was set free. The only thing that made him particularly special was that he was really strong, and very good at his job. His folk hero status comes from the story of when some railroad tycoon was going to fire everyone because he had a steam-powered hammer that could do everyone's job in less time. John stood up for the workers though and made a bet that he could work faster than the steam-hammer though, which he won at the cost of his heart giving out. He beat the machine with his own two hands, and saved everybody's jobs in the process.

(1/2 cause I'm a long-winded faggot)

Again, all of these are really simple people. It's a nice hobo, a tall lumberjack, and a guy who hammers good. Sure, they're nowhere near the same "heroic" status as King Arthur or maybe even Robin Hood (since he has a lot of fantastical stories surrounding him), but they're still folk heroes. They were larger-than-life people who, despite being simple folk, either stood up for other, showed people how to be kind, or just were so damn good at their jobs they seemed inhuman. Just because what a character does is simple doesn't mean they don't count as a folk hero. Hell, Robin Hood isn't all that much ahead of any of them either, in his simplest stories he was just some no-name thief in the woods that was really good at archery and gave what he stole to the poor. You don't have to be a fighter to be a folk hero.

He's basically a ridiculously badass dude without any specific skills. He's not as good at using weapons as a fighter/barbarian/whatever and he certainly cannot cast spells and his skills would be technically low unless he got a high INT (in which case why is he a commoner and not an expert?) but he's nonetheless impossibly good at mundane tasks through sheer experience.

That said, he still has a serious edge against low-level adventurers by the sheer virtue of his attack bonus and HP, which outclass most low level adventurers and even weak CR monsters. Meaning he can probably murder a level 1 wizard with his rusty pitchfork like some edgy 2cool4u anime protagonist.

"Nothin' personnel!"

I think the guy you're responding to may have more been talking about the always latent connection between American folk heroes and capitalism present in practically all of them, whereas you're seeing a much more proletarian streak in ones like Robin Hood.

Like this:
youtube.com/watch?v=U01xasUtlvw

Ah. Well, I'd still have to disagree honestly. Pretty much every American folk hero is a blue-collar working man, even if the historical figure they're based on wasn't. Paul Bunyon was just a lumberjack, and John Henry especially is a kind of slap-in-the-face against white collar business owners. After all, his story is about his boss being a cheapskate and trying to replace all his workers with a machine, until John Henry steps in and makes a bet to prove he could work better than any machine and save his peers' jobs. America tends to idolize the hard working members of society over the rich higher-ups, and you can definitely see that in a lot of our folk tales.

Idealizing the diligent worker is a capitalist view mate, it encourages the workforce to strive to be an ideal laborer for the people employing them. Even John Henry is about how to act within a capitalist system, only from the workers perspective.

Stuff like Robin Hood is about "sticking it to the man".

5e has both commoners and levels so I don't know what you're on about faggot. Oh wait you're trying to start edition wars between the two worst editions of D&D. Yeah naw piss off.

That reminded me of how legendary level miners in Dwarf Fortress are (used to be?) incredibly deadly with their pickaxes, often saving my fortresses from random attacks when my militia was still a bunch of bumbling idiots.

>Stuff like Robin Hood is about "sticking it to the man".

Robin Hood is literally the Man. He's a noble waging war against the monarchy because they expected him to pay taxes.

...

I thought it was because he got tricked into accidentally killing one of the King's deer, and would have been put to death by the unjust sheriff so that his lands and properties could be seized?

This is why the idea of levels is dumb

I honestly cannot think of a better individual that fits this role.

keep talking NOBLEMAN

Don't forget wood cutters.

My first real threat was a cyclops. I paused, readied my militia, split my firing squads, gave the order to get my defences up.
My wood cutter was furious that this beast decided to interrupt his work! He cleaved the thing's leg off, dropped the axe and punched it in the eye until it died.

He then returned to his job, cutting wood.

Robinhood was a ranger with MAYBE a level or two in rogue.

Non existant, most likely, i mean at level 20 you're getting tangled into really serious universe tangling shit, closest you'd get is a adventurer who retired to live off his accumulated wealth.

St Cuthbert

The only Harem Protagonists I could call "commoners" is Keitaro from Love Hina and Rito from To-Love-Ru cause anyone else I think of are mostly competent warriors like Ranma, become broken god-moders like Tenchi, or both like...well honestly literally anyone else.

Smite Varmint
Requirement: Commoner20, 10 ranks in any skill relating to farming.
Benefit: Once per day, for a number of rounds equal to your level divided by 4, you may add a bonus equal to your Commoner level to all attack and damage rolls. This ability may only be used on any creatures currently threatening (or occupying) squares that contain your crops, livestock, farming implements, or homestead. Additionally, during the period this ability is active, your attacks overcome all damage reduction and ignore all miss chances.

Original user here, and I've got an announcement for you. You sir are a flaming homosexual. In short - a faggot.
Explain to us all how the fuck capitalistic entrepreneurs and their lackeys are in anyway folk heroes.

Here, short list of examples of folk heroes:
Robin Hood - attacking tax collectors for raking too much money from people and giving the money back
Juraj Janosik - attacking foreigners who took over the ancestoral lands and started raking high taxes, then giving the money back
Yue Fei - defending his homeland against invasion even if that meant leaving his mother, thus saving many
Spartacus - throwing away shackles of slavery and showing The Man his place

See some sort of pattern?
Meanwhile you are listing either people who:
- abused naive farmers to provide them with supply of raw goods
- workers toiling day and night
- workers being abused so hard they die, just because of stupid vager
Those figures can't even qualify for being called folk hero, you dumb fuck. Propaganda pieces - sure, great work of convincing the little men to stay low and work day and night for The Man. But that doesn't make them folk heroes.

Burgers are really amusing with their inability to grasp how "national mythology" works and their sad, pathetic attempts to create their own heroes, but not exactly grasping how this shit works. Cape shit is the best example of this.

Robin Hood, in the original version, was about opposing unjustify high taxes. Not taxes in general, not rebell against rich or the system, but the taxes being simply too fucking high.
He wasn't even a nobleman in that version, but it sounded better in ballads later on to make him a nobleman.

Oh, and let's not forget about the best part about John Henry "myth".
>It's ok to work blacks to death, that's a heroic thing to do
/pol/ would be proud

>America, the first nation to be formed around an ideology has different standards for their folk heroes than ethnostates suffering exploitation from foreign forces

Our culture is primarily a FRONTIER CULTURE, and most of our folk heroes come from the time when the yeoman farmer was a dying ideal in the face of the wealthy gentry.

In this context, Paul Bunyan, Davy Crockett, Jim Bowie, Daniel Boone, John Henry, John the Conqueror/Bre'er Rabbit, and Pecos Bill make a lot of sense.

The point was that the man voluntarily engaged in a contest against forces that threatened the value of men's labor. American Industrialization was seen as the death of an era in the country, and is arguably the turning point between the USA's pre-modern and modern history.

There's certainly no need for that kind of vitriol.

I'm not certain if I understand what a "folk hero" is, but if I'm not mistaken your own definition seems to be based on a specific ideology that must be espoused or represented by that folk hero, which seems suspect. Could you elaborate on what qualities define a folk hero, and why those qualities don't apply to American folk legends like the ones already listed?

I mean, if American folk legends are categorically incapable of fulfilling "folk hero" status, that would be surprising, wouldn't it? It would imply that there's something unique about American culture as compared to all others, which is a stance I find unlikely. It may be that your opinion is influenced by nationalist bias of some sort.

Not even him, but are you at least aware Johnny Appleseed was a scheme created by a guy making cider? He literally dressed up as a hillbilly, wandered around giving free saplings of apple trees and then returned after few years buying large supply of apples that were good only for brewing cider out of them.

So nice "heroes" Americans have.

I agree, it really is terrible. As a matter of fact, I've heard that some folk heros may have never existed at all!

In seriousness, I've heard myself that Paul Bunyan was invented as an advertising thing for a lumber company. On the other hand, I'm not certain that that invalidates his status as a "folk hero," or implies that America's other folk heroes are all equally artificial.

Yeah, that sense being "work hard and don't mind harship, because if you will work hard enough ,you back will give up and you will die in a heroic deed".
Which is supposedly the shit America was - at least ideologically - against. You know, exploitation of serfs. Only this time calling them "workers".

Folk hero is a guy sticking to The Man and/or standing on the side of the little men. In short - a person that does something both heroic and protective for the powerless masses. Not a propaganda piece that promotes this or that value for newcoming workers.

It's really that fucking simple.

Want a great example of what could qualify as folk hero? Seven samurai. Not magnificent seven, but seven samurai. You have guys that by law and custom are above the people for which they stand for. And yet they stand for the little men, rather than turning their backs.
It's completely lost in translation for western, because there is no class difference between the farmers and gunslingers.

Pretty much ALL American "folk heroes" are advertising stunts, which further undermines their status as folk hero. This shit just doesn't work this way.

make him the cosmic farmer.
One time, my entire party was composed of murderhoboes. Anticipating they'd start shit in the next village (and at the time I was too experienced to know that their consequences would fuck them up all the same) I put a LVL 20 farmer at the end of the village (they were level 3) and gave him a sickle +16. Eventually as they passed trough the village they fucked with the poor villager at the end of the village. He killed three out of four of them, and they shit themselves. It was funny as fuck at the time, and eventually he became the cosmic farmer. Now he has his little demiplane which is a farm in the middle of nothing, and sometimes when players travel the plains they pass trough it, and gods help them if they piss the simple farmer off.

if there ever comes a time when they all play good characters and the peasant deems them worthy though, he will give them the sickle.

It can be also read - without any mental exercises to boot - as a story of how good it is to give a nigger a hammer and then put him against machine, because it's still cheaper to use a nigger for that than construct an expensive contraption.
Also, remind us all - how does this make hims a folk hero? Did he secured anything for other workers? Did he achieved anything? Helped anyone?
In short, this is a nice play on luddite tendencies, explaining the little men how opposing machines is stupid and pointless, because you will die anyway, so better just accept it.

And it might shock you, but America is not the only frontier culture around. In fact, half of the world can get that claim. Including countries from Europe. Amazing, right?

>Folk hero is a guy sticking to The Man and/or standing on the side of the little men.

The Founding Fathers say hello.

America didn't need to make up random mythological Stick It To The Man characters, because it already had a great cast to mythologize and embellish into living legends. The founding story of America is itself a grand tale of rising up against oppression, fighting for freedom, and establishing one's right to self determination.

Sure, the real founding fathers may have been elites who never agreed on anything and the war may have cemented the rule of the upper class, but it makes one hell of a story. Far more concrete compared to fairy tales about an outlaw in the woods, too.

You're complaining that America didn't invent a story about Bob The Savior that meets your satisfaction, while completely ignoring the fact that America already had heroes they could turn into legends. So I'll see your Robin Hood, and raise you one George Washington (twelve stories tall, never lies, chops down cherry trees, 27 dicks, shoots lasers out of his eyes, etc).

>levels
just play GURPS senpai

That's what the "folk hero" background is for. You've saved your town and become a local legend before the game even begins.

>In short - a person that does something both heroic and protective for the powerless masses. Not a propaganda piece that promotes this or that value for newcoming workers.
But what if they're a person that does something protective for new workers, e.g., a fatherlike company foreman, that also happens to be a piece of propaganda that promotes values, e.g. to trust your foreman? That doesn't seem very simple at all. I'm also not sure what you mean by "propaganda," either -- one could interpret the John Henry story as being pro- or anti-establishment, depending on how you look at it. I know for a fact I have been exposed to anti-establishment versions that depict the events as tragically heroic.

What is "propaganda" other than an opinionated piece of art whose viewpoint you happen to disagree with?

>You have guys that by law and custom are above the people for which they stand for. And yet they stand for the little men, rather than turning their backs.
But this sounds something like my foreman example, though, doesn't it? A propaganda piece that emphasizes the protective nature of the upper class (what is the mythological distinction between "people above the people they stand for" and "The Man"?) towards the lower class which is informed it should revere them.

>Burger still desperately trying to claim his country has culture or even such trival things like folk heroes
user, I've got a clue for you. The biggest "test" of folk hero status is the source of the legend.
If it's not a thing coming from the bottom, a "grassroot" cration, then you are fucked.

And you still don't understand what a folk hero is, by the way. For you it appears to be some sort of buzzword for people to worship and/or praise for their deeds. Maybe open the fucking dictionary if it's so hard to grasp already.

Also, pro tip:
No matter the effort, you won't shit up anything of any value, because there is nothing to shit up. And that's one of those things you can ALWAYS poke at burgers and they can only sit silent or throw a tantrum

Serious question - are you for real or just trolling?
Because I can't believe one can be so work-centric in perception of this shit.

Are all Americans brainwashed or something? I mean Germans are pretty much all about working hard, but they grasp this shit without any issues. But ask American and he will start talking about working hard as a way of being heroic.

Ok, let's assume you weren't trolling.

The difference between legend and propaganda is the source of it and usually the intention too. Legend comes from bottom to top, propaganda - from top to bottom. Legend is a tall story turned into (local) folklore, propaganda is a creation made to achieve specific goals and reactions.

If you can't see the difference, then you are simply helpless case.

Meanwhile, it's 6 AM, so the end of the graveyard shift.

This.

Picture Dwayne Johnson working the land.

So common that they cease to have an identity of their own, and dissolve into the communal consciousness?

>Instantly splatter cocksure level 2 PC with a hoe
>"GET OFF MUH LAWN"

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...

Stop undermining their national mythology.

The founding fathers were heroes, true American patriots and not British traitors who chose rebellion over national loyalty.

The King of England was an evil tyrant who's reign of barbarity came to an end when Americans threw off their shackles and declared America to be the world's first and greatest democracy where all men are created equal*.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

>*Terms and conditions apply.

I'm not trolling, not even close. I am, however, treating "folk hero" as a literary term: I'm not certain that you are, because your definition seems rooted in history, not literature.

Because the problem with saying "bottom to top" vs. "top to bottom" is how, in many cases, you simply may not know which is which -- even in cases where you have all the available historical details!

Let's take King David for example. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that King David -- who slew Goliath with a rock from a sling, slept in a den of lions, whose music soothed the mad king Saul -- was a folk hero. However, although there is some extrabiblical evidence that David existed (the book of Kings was a literary work: it contains four different Saul/David accounts), there is no way of knowing if David actually did anything even remotely resembling these accounts.

And yet, we know from the book of Deuteronomy that there was a reformist, centralist Israelite faction that was VERY interested in making David look as good as possible, because they were politically inclined towards making Israel a monarchy. It's almost certain that they contributed, editorially, to the book of Kings, and many other books of the Hebrew Bible besides.

So is King David a folk hero, or not? Did his legend begin in actions, or propaganda?

>national loyalty
lol, loyalty to the British banks, maybe. The same banks that strongarmed Parliament into forbidding the colonists from printing their own scrip, one of the hidden reasons for the war. God forbid that the people look out for their own interests instead of allowing their revenue to be farmed by some inbred Dutch cretins so that Shlomo can order another brace of Christian children to crucify during Lent.

But no, you'd actively advocate for getting kiked by a bunch of bankers. That's in vogue today, everyone's lining up to have their currency replaced with some tiered Kosher debt scheme.