How does Human DAoT technology compare with Eldar peak technology and Necron peak technology?

The Eldar literally ran the galaxy when humanity was at the height of their technological prowess. Their automated defense networks were more than a match for anything humanity could conjure.

Basically, Necrons >>> Eldar >>>>>>>>>>> DAoT Humanity.

>A war between peak Eldar and peak humans could still result in a human victory, in my opinion, but that has less to do with humans being STRONK and more with humans being so numerous. The Eldar were absurdly powerful compared to the DAoT humans, but the Eldar only inhabited the Crone Worlds, a tiny part of the galaxy.

The Eldar pre-fall were said to be so powerful they were untouchable by anyone.

Well, remember, aside from a few outlier bits of fluff, Dark Age technology is not substantially more powerful than Imperium tech.

It's more efficient.

I always assumed that had more to do with them holing up on the Crone worlds like a bunch of interstellar trenches and most of their defensive and offensive capabilities being located in the Webway, and less about their actual pound-for-pound military might.

It's always been a bit murky just what DAoT could do. Some of it was just more powerful and efficient than what the Imperium has in the 41st millenium,some of it was radically different.

Still,as far as I am aware, the Eldar at their peak had some pretty crazy stuff. Remember, the Craftworlds were trade vessels that barely managed to salvage some stuff just before the fall, and Comorragh used to be basically a resort town. Look at the sort of things they have, and try to extrapolate what a pre-fall Eldar industrial complex might have been.

I am not sure what the Necrons had at their prime, but if anything it was even stronger. According to their pre-wardian fluff,the Eldar at their prime knew to stay the fuck off.

Yeah but mankind now rules the galaxy even with shit tech.

well im glad slaanesh fucked them up so much.

There was a post here some time ago about a Black Library novel featuring a Mechanicus ship with DAoT weapons. The ship shot it's main cannon at an Eldar ship and missed. So then it shot another weapon that MOVED THE ELDAR SHIP BACK IN TIME AND SPACE to coordinates that guaranteed a penetrating hit.
Human DAoT tech basically allowed you to savescum in real life.

Beast Arises mentions that the Eldar fought humanity's 'unliving legions' and defeated them.

The Idea that humanity in the DaoT could beat the Eldar is just bad autistic HFY.

Is that a BL book? I'm a 2nd/3rd edition guy. I just regurgitate what demented memories I have of that era of 40k. I'm sorry if I'm outdated.

>I am not sure what the Necrons had at their prime, but if anything it was even stronger. According to their pre-wardian fluff,the Eldar at their prime knew to stay the fuck off.

It's important to remember that in the Old Lore, the War in Heaven had the Eldar fighting alongside the Old Ones against the Necrons, and that war was so fucking destructive on the Eldar in deaths and mental effects, that the pain and suffering of the Eldar spawned the entire demonic ecology inside the Warp. Before the War in Heaven and the Eldar's emotional spergout, the Warp was just the Warp, without Chaos.

Eldar were spread out across the galaxy dude.

Nice

And the Eldar were even stronger than that before the fall. Just think of the crazy stuff they had with them.

Because

1. The previous rulers partied so hard they exploded.

2. They had a magical magic man helping them. Now that he's gone the Imperium runs on sheer inertia. It's falling apart and dragging mankind down, but it's so huge and its forward-thrust is so powerful that to those inside it, without a view out into the entire setting, it seems okay enough for now.

3. They don't actually rule the galaxy. The Imperium is made up of thousands of worlds scattered at disparate ends of the Milky Way. These worlds are tenuously connected to one another by shoddy communications and, thanks to the poor logistics of the Imperium and the way Warp travel worlds, less of the galaxy is actually charted by the Imperium than uncharted.

To be honest, that kind of Dark Age tech has never appeared again in fluff.

Almost universally, DAoT stuff is just 40K stuff but easier to reproduce and much more stable.

Now I imagine that the Archaeotech Pistols that the Mechanicus has and loves were pieces of shit sold to idiots, and that the /k/ equivalent would call the owners fags.

Archaeotech Pistol tier stuff is the general level of DAoT tech.

40K fluff isn't always consistent, with different writers often having totally out of synch ideas about stuff, and if something is wildly out of the norm it's best to just ignore it.

Remember, a lot of what the Imperium uses is Dark Age technology. Golden Age mankind simply had the ability to produce and organize all this stuff far more efficiently thanks to better digital technology and more complete archives.

Necrons couldn't even cure a fucking disease or manage to extend their shitty lifespans.

This, mostly. Personal level equipment wasn't massively better than the Archaeotech the Imperium uses now, because the Archaeotech is pretty much direct copy from the Dark Age average or only slightly modified, it's when you get to bigger installations, like voidships, where every single tiny component and sub-component was Archaeotech-grade that you really begin to see a huge difference.

Archeotech pistols is the general level of the average DAoT gurdsman. Or even below the DAoT guardsman level.

The disease was caused by a C'tan-infested sun, with the C'tan being pretty well-known for just completely fucking science and reason over with their presence. Everything else the Necrons have still suggests that in their prime they were the most advanced faction we've ever seen in terms of pure physics-based tech, their warptech is just trash compared to Eldar/Old Ones.

It's actually easy to say as it's explicitly stated in multiple sources that Eldar>DAoT. Codex, rulebook and BL novels all state unequivocally the Pre-fall Eldar were untouchable. It's one of the premises of the setting that the Eldar fell internally due to complacency precisely because they were so externally dominant.

> penetrating hit.

It actually failed to destroy the ship. To put things in perspective, human ships from the apex of their might couldn't destroy a ship from the Eldar at their nadir. Meanwhile, even repurposed Eldar merchant ships can delete entire star systems.

While the weapons technology and know how would be significantly better it should also be noted that the DAOT had a very loosely connected human galaxy. There was no Imperium. And a war between eldar and humans does not mean every human world contributes. You might have large parts fighting but without the large yet inefficient control of the Imperium.

Here's the page.

The most advanced technology the Imperium has was easily available but thats the average the DAoT was working with.

Eldar tech is still heads and toes ahead of the best of our technology.

I mean it would be overwhelming against current day craftworlders, but those guys are basically the Eldar Amish and the DE are the bros and hos of eldar society.

Imagine if your entire civilization could barely keep up against human amish. Now imagine what the main strain of elder civilization was like.

What happens when a star is extinguished? The is all the gasses in it dispersed into wider area to prevent the fusion by not having enough pressure? Did they harvest the material by themselves for the same effect? If the first case is true, wouldn't the stars reform in some point in the future?

The most practical answer I can give you is that GW likely didn't think about the ramifications or specifics, at all, as usual, and just wrote down something that sounds cool.

It's space magic. I aint gotta explain SHIT. Seriously though, what this guy said:

I know that, but we can do better, right?

As far as I know, the Eldar big guns work via creating tears in reality. Most likely the suns were tossed into the warp rather than it being dispersed across the galaxy. Not an astrophysicist so I can't say what the consequences of a bunch of prime suns suddenly vanishing would be.

they are now huge dead balls of space-coal

The Eldar had been in decline for literally millions of years when humans we getting their DAoT on. Further, 95% of the fluff on relative power levels comes from Eldar who A), aren't unbiased, and B), weren't alive to see it themselves anyway, because if they were they'd be getting entertained by She Who Thirsts at this point.

The Eldar are basically identical to the imperium; jingoistic, haughty, w-w-we were better than y-y-you, honest! cranked up to eleven to add some dark, hilarious depth to the setting. A prissy mirror.

>The Eldar were the unparalleled masters of the galaxy the same time Dark Age Humanity is at its peak

>95% of the fluff on relative power levels comes from Eldar

Actually, it's mainly just omniscient narrators in the rulebook and codices. It's only Throneworld where it's from a subjective perspective.

>The Eldar had been in decline for literally millions of years when humans we getting their DAoT on.

And yet they were still better than DAoT Humanity. If, as you say, after incredible decline the Eldar were equal to the greatest peak of Humanity, then how could Humanity be equal to the Eldar peak?

With a mass of a star it would fuse carbon.

The Eldar codex says the Eldar Empire achieved its full height a million years ago. Decadence only started in M20 as per DE Codex.

I would assume nobody's talking about Eldar right after the war in heaven, but way later during the only time they were concomitant with DAOT humans. As that would be the only time there is relevant data.

Necrons, DAoT, and Eldar are all just degrees of infinity anyway.

They co-existed. It's just that Eldar were far more powerful.

Basically, DAoT humanity was smalltime. They were advanced but nowhere near advanced enough to threaten the Eldar, who let them have their little empires because they were too busy getting busy.

Having a DAoT society in your territory was like having a lawn ornament to the Eldar.

All we know about Necrons is they fought one war and lost, but it was apparently the biggest war EVAR. Eldar are stated outright to have been untouchable for millions of years. DAoT was never really relevant and only ever was used as a point of comparison to show how far the Imperium has fallen.

I dunno about that. Eldar get points for allowing other species to live when they had mastery over the galaxy.

Going out of your way to waste resources on religious genocide of all other species while you have a common enemy in Quadruple Satan and his megademons is a brand of stupid mostly unique to the Imperium.

>All we know about Necrons is they fought one war and lost,

I mean, the Old Ones are basically extinct excepting the ones that fled to other galaxies. Then there's the fact that the C'tan are all sharded or dead.

Bu...but humanity got totally bamboozled by evil aliums in the past, that totally justifies all the hatred and genoside!

The Necrons won the War in Heaven.

>Implying deceit is not inherent in all xenos
Besides, it's pretty much their fault Chaos exists in the first place.

>Lose your entire empire
>Lose your fucking souls
>Run away to the fringes of the galaxy
>Shake your fists screaming I'LL GET YOU NEXT TIME ELDAR FUCKING SHITS
>Hide in tomb worlds
>Sleep for so long the few that still retain any individuality lose their sanity
>W-we w-won!

The Eldar were nothing immediately after the War in Heaven, the Necrons ruled the galaxy then. The Eldar only rose after the Necrons had their wars of succession and sharded the C'tan.

>They outlasted the Eldar Empire

They killed the Old Ones and the C'tan. They won, Pyrrhic though it may be.

>Be Eldar
>Have undisputed mastery of the galaxy
>Feels god man
>Defeat humanity's failed AI experiment
>Let them live though, because they aint no threat
>Rule for aeons
>Start partying too hard and birth sex god
>Lose empire
>Humans crawl out woodwork and kick us when we're down
>Attack xenos out of sheer religious zeal as Emperor decrees it holy writ to do so
>Even destroy craftworlds that attempted to surrender
>Try to reason with them and warn the Emperor in an attempt to come in peace
>Get attacked anyway because HURR WHY SHOULD WE TRUST YOU
>Start manipulating them in secret, because they keep attacking during parleys
>DURR WHY YOU KEEP SECRETS!?

Fucking monkeigh, not even once.

Emperor actually didn't mind aliums on principle, he just wanted to smash up the ones who had played nice with humanity during the DAoT and then turned around and betrayed them during the age of strife. Except-

oh. I've been out of circulation for a few years, not current anymore it seems.

That was never their goal though. They wanted a cure to their shit tier life spans and then realized they had dun goofed when they sold their souls for magic beans. Killing Old Ones and sharding Ctan was just vengeance. They lost all relevance and were banished.

>Lose empire and spend 99% of entire galactic history hiding in stasis, achieving nothing for millions of years
>WE OUTLASTED YOU

It has to be remembered that eldar are ALL psykers to some degree and they were probably quite willing and totally able to develop, use and abuse their gifts before the fall.
Dark Eldars are basically neutered old eldars on this point, and craftworld eldars have to be way too prudent to match their elders.

So old eldars could probably mindcrush at will if conventional means were taking too long to their tastes. Especially against humans as human psykers were rare at the time and probably far far from eldars powers, not to mention skills.
Also the webway was intact.
Also they could be reborned at will, meaning you could be fighting dudes that were around since the fucking war in heaven.

Eldars were bullshit.

But everyone loves lawn ornaments. Garden gnomes are fucking baller.

...

>Necrons wake up
>The Eldar are almost gone
>They fucked themselves into oblivion
>Half are still fucking themselves into oblivion
>The other half are running from EVERYTHING
>Meanwhile, tomb worlds are still waking up
>The only things that stand between them and galactic conquest are monkeys, mutant monkeys, mushroom monkeys, and pests that can't eat necron

Squats

There is just one issue: they're dead.
But some of them are working on it.

I've you ever seen a squat army be defeated?
I sure haven't, they are undefeated!

Listen hear you Souldark shit; at no point in all of history has it been a god thing to be a Necron. Back when you were Necrontry all you did was get ravaged by space AIDS and cough of Ctan dust in short, miserable lives.

Then when The Deceived dun bamboozled ya, the majority of your race was left non-fucking-sentient. Some lucky enough to retain some echo of personality went bat shit insane during the long sleep and the rest were left with a gnawing sense of emptiness.

You are the eternal losers of the galaxy. You have eaten shit since the beginning of the universe to this very day. There is no worse fate in the galaxy than being you. We had countless million years of unbelievable pleasure. Even the fucking humans had a few millenia in the sun. What did you get? Cancer and a lobotomy. You're shit. Fuck off.

We have space Jesus. Your leader literally cocked up the one chance at salvation your race had.

>Created a God-shard
>Cocked up

Stop pretending you know anything about Psychic engineering you metal fuck. Just because you don't make God in a single day doesn't mean you can't finish buffering him in time to get a handjob and a sandwich. Remember being able to taste things and have genitals? Of course not.

> the eternal losers of the galaxy
> Fuck shit for everyone else
Are necrons the school shooters of the galaxy?

That's Dark Eldar. Or possibly Maugan Ra.

Honestly I see a certain beauty in the way that Necrons basically drew the shortest stick on every occasion they entered the draw, but despite that are still going strong and currently have a better chance of reclaiming their prime than basically anyone else. Helps to make them three-dimensional and intimidating at the same time.

>a better chance of reclaiming their prime than basically anyone else

There's no way for them to get their souls back. They're the one faction that have already lost. At best they can make everyone else lose too, but the best thing they can get is ruling over a universe as empty as their souls.

Shh. Do you hear that? That's Slaanesh's belly. He's hungry for Eldar souls. YOUR souls. Guess whose fault that one is. Hint: Yours

We defeated the gods we made, you just made more gods who defeated you.

>Then when The Deceived dun bamboozled ya, the majority of your race was left non-fucking-sentient.
Not my problem, I'm still sentient.

Oh, well look at the time. It's 1135. Time to not fuck over the galaxy with psychic byproduct! Later!

Why do they even need souls?

We have seen artificial souls before, though it would definitely take them a great deal of time and is extremely unlikely there's nothing suggesting it's impossible, Szeras and a few other Crypteks are working on it as we speak.

Not only that, but some Necrons don't even want their souls back, in time others may join this philosophy, their entire race isn't as once-dimensional as it used to be.

>There's no way for them to get their souls back. They're the one faction that have already lost.
They're the one faction that can still win. So what they can't get their souls back? Who needs them anyway? They just cause problems for everyone. They still have galactic conquest and the destruction of the Eldar on their to-do list.

It's mentally uncomfortable to not have a soul for most of them. Only a few, who were either psychotic to begin with or are "broken" after they were turned into robots are comfortable with it.

>Necrons taking credit for the existence of Ctan

Looks like you overslept trashcan, because you're wires have gone all screwy. And boy, I'd hate to lose my soul to Slaanesh. What was that like btw? When the Ctan told you they were taking you to disneyland, but then just raped an existential hole into your very being?

This: kinda. A soul is not necessary for life, and we know that, but the problem lies in that the Necrons' bodies attempted a 1:1 simulation of their minds during the transference, minds which had and were developed around a soul-bearing species. Considering the soul is heavily linked to the mind itself, it's not at all presumptuous to suggest that the Necrons currently feel as if something is missing, at least the ones who weren't reprogrammed into barely sapient automatons.

>We did it! We've conquered the galaxy!
>I feel absolutely nothing other than the harrowing chill of oblivion!

>Now to begin funding the galactic study of the flesh and soul, considering we have all the data from Xenos computers that we took over, it shouldn't take too long until a breakthrough, a few millennia or so

As others have mentioned, they could just try reprogramming themselves to not feel that way anymore.

>it's not at all presumptuous to suggest that the Necrons currently feel as if something is missing

It's not only not presumptuous, it's literally stated in the Necron codex. In the immediate aftermath of bio-transference The Silent King realizes his mistake and describes a gnawing emptiness.

Oh well? They're not SJWs or conservatives who are worried about "uncomfortable" things. They can man up.

>Necrons taking credit for the existence of Ctan
But we kinda did. We found them, gave them bodies, we worshiped them, then when we figured out we'd been tricked we blasted them into a million pieces.

>And boy, I'd hate to lose my soul to Slaanesh. What was that like btw? When the Ctan told you they were taking you to disneyland, but then just raped an existential hole into your very being?
I hardly noticed, otherwise we would've tried destroying the C'Tan sooner. Regardless, a Necron's soul is different from an Eldar's; less prone to destroying the galaxy. How about you ask your grandpa who was eaten by Slaanesh? I'm sure he'd love to describe it to you.

At least they would succeed.

>I put water into a cup
>I created water!
>Also it ate my soul

*Golf clap*

>we

Nigga come now.

>Incapable of feeling fulfilment
>SUCESS!

Computers can succeed at stuff without *wanting* to.

A false equivalency, the C'tan and their nature was radically changed by their transition to pseudophysical forms, they not only became more mentally cohesive but they also developed more distinct personalities. If you put a CPU that you didn't make into a computer that you made every other part of, you created that computer.

The modern C'tan we know were created by the Necrontyr from the essence of the Old C'tan, just like the Necrons were created by the C'tan from the essence of Necrontyr.

>Before the War in Heaven and the Eldar's emotional spergout, the Warp was just the Warp, without Chaos.

This^
Basically it was the Eldar, Kork, millions of other old one races and Old Ones against the Necrons and C'tan.

The old ones were losing so hard they needed to draw on the warp more and more just to stay alive and weaponizing the warp fucked it up for everybody.
Eventually the enslavers were born and fucked up the last hold outs and the Necrons had to go into hybernation because the galaxy was basically empty of life to feed to the C'tan.

>I froze water into ice!
>I created h20!
>Also, nihilism grips my very quintessence!