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What do you feel is the most new player friendly clan/school combination and what do you feel is like a trap waiting for new players when joining a more experienced group?
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Holy shit that image is weird. His face is so fucked up.
>What do you feel is the most new player friendly clan/school combination ?
I have three picks for the first time players
Hida bushi for those who want to smash stuff cause it requires less diplomacy. Because Crab.
Isawa shugenja for those who want to cast stuff (in an easy way they just have to choose what element they like no complciated bullshit like poitions or using spell slots for stuff). And also you can easily be quiet in diplomatic circumstances because Isawa shugenja is introspective.
And Tsurughi archer, for those who want to trade and also dps from afar. Also, less diplomacy because Mantis.
...
>What do you feel is the most new player friendly clan/school combination
Doji/Kakita Iron Warrior, Akodo/Ikoma Bushi or Berserker, Moto/Ide Battle Maiden.
>a trap waiting for new players when joining a more experienced group
Everything non-Bushi, especially the Artisan Schools. Also True Ronin in general.
Hello fellow samurais !
I am that kind of DM that has tons of ideas for new schools and minor clans but can't fucking balance that shit rulewise. And it's killing me inside because I like my ideas.
Would you help me find some coehrent and balanced rules, especially for the Minor Clan I'm trying to create for my campaign ?
I'll add details about lore in the next message cause typing is hard
Ok next message
The Neko Clan (Dunno if a cat Clan already exists, but they don't in my campaign)
Doji Mai was born from the main branch of the doji family, second to her brother who was destined to take the lead after their parents died. Her origins and her beauty made her a favorite of the Court even before her gempuku, especially when she revealed to be of exceptionally good company (not in a sexual sense, she is just a darling to be around).
She always felt the manipulation of the Court wasn't for her since she had such a strong will to be honest and nice to all guests and samurais. Her family predicted she would not be very efficient as a courtier since she was so nice and naive, so they started to look for a a good match early on.
Surprinsingly, it wen pretty well for her because her parents found an agreement to marry her to the future heir to the Akodo family's head, who happened to fall for the charm of the lady he was bound to marry.
He was a honorable fighter and a brilliant strategist, who carried the same values of honesty and honor as she did, and even if he wasn't her 'true soulmate', she appreciated him and felt it was her duty to fill her role as well as possible.
So she became a good wife, taking care of the samurai's lands like no one before her, using the Crane knowledge to organise their home and make the house prosper. She always received her guests with the warmest welcome and even if she was known to be kind of gullible, she knew when to listen to the advice of the Akodo family about who to trust and who not to.
Life went on for a while and her husband took the role of daimyo for the Lion's Clan. However, war was menacing because of a disagreement between the Crane and the Lion about some lands one had apparently stolen from the other.
Unfortunately, even if Akodo tried his best to avoid conflict, he eventually got no other choice when the Crane insulted him publicly, leading to war.
1/2
Running a crane campaign, players will probably be wardens or generally soldiers along the crab border. At a certain point I'm sure there will be a hot pursuit into crab lands and into some crab village. Can one expect those peasants to be armed like in other (closer to the wall) parts of the Crab? Are they legally speaking all off duty budoka/ashigaru, which is the justification for crab peasants being allowed to have (non samurai) weapons? And finally, what would the typical armaments of peasants in crab villages be. Spears seems like a simple classic, but are bows too dishonorabru for such people to wield?
Mai was worried and torn appart between her origins and her husband, but she remained calm and prepared the city in case something went sour during the conflict.
Her predictions were right, unfortunately. Her husband was wounded and sent back to their home to heal, and the Spider Clan to advantage of the lack of army and the injured daimyo to try and invade the city.
However, Mai did not let go easily. This was her home, her land, and her duty was to protect it whatever the costs. The protections she had prepared and the ashigaru she had recruited started organizing the defense against the Spider : all this time in a Lion's bed had helped her get a grasp of what strategy was.
She held the siege for weeks, rationning the food and water, sending coded messages to cities nearby, using every ressources she could to protect the land.
Eventually, warned by her notes, troops came to the Lion's capital to break the siege, while her exhausted counsellors and herself defended the castle itself from intruders.
The city was saved, but unfortunately, her husband had died from infection a few horus before the city was liberated.
She was about to shave her head and go live the rest of her days in a monastery for failing to protect her husband, when the Emperor granted her the right to establish elsewhere and create a Minor Clan, which would represent her sense of duty and her kindness after her.
She chose to name it the Neko Clan, to represent her ties to the ferocious Lion and her devotion to her home.
The Mai family, which descended from Mai herself and the ones she first took under her wing.
Since then, the Mai are known to be the best spouse in the Empire, even if not of high status, because of their devotion to their role and their loyalty towards the Clan which they adopted once they are married.
There you go.
I thought of them as courtiers with a starting pool of skills that goes a bit like this :
Courtier, Etiquette (Conversation), Sincerity (Honesty), Tea Ceremony, Commerce, Battle, one high skill
And I thought of the +1 being
+1 Awareness for the Mai family, since they inherited the founder's foresight
And +1 Willpower for the school, since loyalty and honesty are their most important values, they should be able to follow them
Waddya think ?
...
Which techniques would they have?
I think farther away from the Wall, Crab peasants only have access to peasant weapons for plausible deniabilury purposes, it's just that unlike most peasants they're actually trained in their use.
Anons, I'm thinking that the second rank of the Mantis Brawler is too weak. For those who don't know when you do a feint you can sacrifice 5 extra damage for a +5 to your Armour TN, or +10 if you're in the floor.
I was thinking to give the bonus automatically if you succeed with the Feint. Is it to powerful?
There's the rub : I've been thinking about it for a while and I can't seem to find anything interesting.
I thought about a technique that gives you bonuses to convince (or make an ally of) someone if you welcome him in your home
one that gives bonuses to your party if you spent at least half a day preparing a fight in advance
Oh and I thought about a part of the level one technique that autamatically gives you the "Blissful Betrothal" advantage, allowing you to take other linked advantages from the start
Those peasants can be expected to be armed. Legally speaking, the Crab actually just have a law saying that peasants can have weapons (Or don't have a law saying that peasants can't have weapons, it's not really clear). There are a few examples of what the peasants have in some of the short stories. For the most part, it's just weaponized tools that they keep close and a handful of real spears and polearms that they keep in the back of closets and sheds. Bows could also be possible, but it seems more likely that those would be given to ashigaru over peasants.
Peasants are armed for the express purpose of being able to hold their own against small bands of raiding goblins while waiting for ashigaru or samurai to come and clean up. They don't need or have a lot of heavy duty weaponry, just small things.
And here's the actual piece of fiction, from Kakita Nanmaru's collected "Letters From The Wall".
"I am under orders to carry weapons," a heimin told me today. "These are yours if you please, but the bakemono come after us sometimes, because we are easy." Her hair brushed the floor as she showed me her sai without looking at her face. Her friend had a kama.
"You think you can defend yourselves?" I asked.
"Oh, no, no, Kakita-sama, the samurai defend us. We cannot be samurai. But the bakemono, the ogres... if they get food, they can stay some time. So..." She shrugged.
"But they only give you small weapons for small enemies, so all is well?" I was being sarcastic.
Her friend gave her a glance, and they showed me wehere they keep the nunte. "Please, Kakita-sama, it lets us reach them before they reach us."
I could not believe it. There is no law here. The Crab would pluck the stars from teh sky if they thought they could burn the Fallen God with them.
"You don't think of anything else?"
"Never."
She stared in my eyes. This heimin woman has killed before.
Yet she spoke the truth.
[Ed: A Nunte is basically a sai on a stick with one of the prongs facing backwards.]
Ok so I'm trying to make a Yorimoto Bushi that excels in using a katana and a nunchuck in his off hand.
Would rising the Juijitsu skill to 3 mastery: Damage of all unarmed attacks is increased by +1k0 include a nunchuck since Mantis emphasis improvised weapons, does this include a peasant weapon like the nunchucku?
Also what would be a good ring stat for the build?
The munched goes with staff, doesn't it?
Nunchaku are staves so no it wouldn't.
Also bonuses when fighting within lands that belong to you (since you prepared traps and/or know it way better than you opponents)
This is quite useful. Essentially I was thinking of having the players trace "bandits" in a hot pursuit by the border and they end up in a crab village. As they ask question, they notice more or less all the heimin grabbing various weaponry (but not attack straight away). Sure, your patrol of six are all samurai, but those are half a hundred mean looking heimin. And then they can try to handle things diplomatically, to find out more or just to bow out with grace. Or you know, try to fight their way out.
Never see people recommend Crab Clan based schools. There a particular reason for that? Is there a stigma? A mechanical thing?
If you're doing a Courier I wouldn't go for fighting bonus. The clan animal is a cat, isn't it? Cats are supposed to be animals that protect your home and shit. Then maybe you could do courtiers with bonus when they are in their court, the lions court or when they are defending someone. Sorta like lawyers.
This is the best I have, maybe if you told me more about the clan I could come up with something better.
I don't know, I'd like to see them as people who can actually defend their home (and there are courtiers who can fight, especially the Lion Ikoma) as much as taking care of it.
They can fight, but you don't give them the bonus to fighting on the School techniques. I say it because if someone isn't interested in fighting he will find them useless.
That's why I thought of an all party bonus (so they don't actually fight)
That means they take the time to prepare the fight, get traps done, organize troops, prepare the strategy and then the party has a bonus but they don't have to directly fight.
I guess that the final saying depends of your idea of them. Also, I like your idea.
Thank you ! It's the first time I attempt to create a minor clan.
Do wasp members not carry a daisho? Seems like it would carry some serious tensions with all other samurai if they don't. But would it be cause enough for random samurai to pick a fight with a wasp? Or do they just ignore them, like ronin.
>not recognizing the Hida love
People recommend Hida all the time. The others somewhat less so I guess, but I see the Yasuki and Hiruma fairly often too.
Love the Kaiu school though. It's a really interesting approach of the game.
>never played L5R before
>decide to be a normie and look up information on YouTube
>maybe someone who is knowledgeable of the game can offer insight into lore and such
>"HEY WELCOME TO ME AND MY THREE GAY ASS FRIENDS PLAYING THIS ADVENTURE SUPPLEMENT"
"GENERAL TSO'S CLAN LOLOLOLOL"
"I'M GOING TO MAKE A PERSON FROM THE LO MEIN FAMILY XDDDDD"
I want to die.
There's always a way out from the shame.
I have prepared my death poem.
"Winter snows outside
My fingers are numb from cold
OP is a fag."
Guys, what are the circumstances required for a gozoku like conspiracy to appear. A bunch of ambitious clan champions who think the emperor is weak? Seems a bit blasphemous
The Kaiu school is the only Crab school that doesn't always work out mechanically (Although the Kuni Witch Hunter often has problems from a story point of view). The things it specifically focuses on are not always relevant and it's not well rounded enough to just tough it out as a normal bushi or artisan. It is really great when it works though.
It can also be that something bad happens and the Imperial government really publicly fucks up when responding to it, leading some to think that maybe it needs some aggressive restructuring. Not everyone involved in such a conspiracy really hates the emperor or anything, they just think that the people in charge clearly shouldn't be due to obvious incompetence.
Pretty much anything can give the green light. Only lesser people care about "blasphemy" and stuff like that - people who can pull a conspiracy don't give a flying shit unless their interests dictate otherwise.
Don't be mistaken, Rokugan is a pretty darn anarchic place.
That's what I meant : I like usual functionnal schools as much as anyone but I have a fondness for those who are specifically good at one precise thing that isn't your usual "cut stuff with katanas" or "lie very well".
The Kaiu, the Ide and the Veeky Forums Minor Octopus Clan come to mind.
Speaking of, how do you think our clans stand up in the big homebrew mix Veeky Forums?
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I at least think, like this guy, the Octopus are good.
Fuckin' weebs.
I like all of Veeky Forums's except for the butterfly, because it's completely busted (Intentionally, but still). I like the other ones on paper, but haven't gotten to actually play around with them to see how or if they work out in play.
As the maker of the Octopus Clan I am glad someone liked them, though I note Veeky Forums changed up most of the school skills. I like what they did though.
I'd like to try and test it out in game some day.
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The Butterfly is OP shit. The Rank 3 technique is by far the most powerful technique in the game. With it you can easily lock most bushi out raising forever. Whoever wrote that should commit sepukku and his family should have to commit sudoku.
Hey there you !
I made an Octopus NPCs for my campaign earlier today before working on the Neko Clan and I was pretty happy with it, even if it's a bit magical realm-y.
So yeah, I like it ! i'll probably use it some times more
I like the concept of the Butterfly school. I think though it needs to be nerfed closer towards having more monk and courtier things - so its a bushi school with its one trick, but a really good one.
Magical Realm is fine with Octopus- but its not all about that. They're a good school for moving around in urban settings.
You'll have to tell me how they work mechanically, I note Veeky Forums gave them rather wordy mechanics, but I guess that's the price of being so specialized.
>Since then, the Mai are known to be the best spouse in the Empire
... No, that would be the emperor's traditional brides, the Doji.
Well I took the mechanics from 1d4chan, unchanged, and since I didn't try her yet in game I can't tell you what I think about it, but it looks pretty balanced to me. And not THAT wordy.
Nah. Doji can't even protect their home and are dishonest bitches.
You know... it is our clan.
We can just nerf rank 3.
It also feels redundant given that Rank 2 is already giving you a defensive bonus.
It's our clan, but I don't feel comfortable messing around with the mechanics of something I didn't personally work on.
>Nah. Doji can't even protect their home and are dishonest bitches.
>insulting the emperor's choice
Nice knowing whoever publicly voices that opinion IC. They're not going to survive it.
The things that stand out to me on a glance over.
Rank 1's Glory gaining thing might need a cap to prevent farming glory - particularly since its supposed to be a more modest, in the background clan.
Rank 2's bonus to doing Forgeries could get MASSIVE. I'm wondering why it doesn't just count the skill you are Forging in. i.e. just adding your Calligraphy Skill to faking someone elses calligraphy. It adds in everything.
Nobody voices it but everybody knows only Bayushi are less trustworthy than Doji in Court.
>Rank 2's bonus to doing Forgeries could get MASSIVE
Yeah but as a GM I would interpret it as : yeah, you did better than him. By completely highjacking the style of another artist. And yeah it's nicer but most people in the room know you didn't get that out of your soul.
>Rank 1's Glory gaining thing might need a cap to prevent farming glory
I had problems dealing with characters who got Glory too fast before and I've solved it pretty efficientely so far by reducing their Glory every week they don't do something outstanding. Since my group likes taking time to developp their homes, skills and spells, it happens fairly often.
>can't tell if troll or just basic bitch
Yeah ... nah.
That's not really how the rules for that Rank 2 are explained or worded. Its just that you get to roll up a potential mass of skills for a big load of numbers. It makes more sense if its just using the skill you are Forgery.
>being this much of a bitchboy for the Crane.
I can't tell if this is kayfabe or being stupid.
That generally wouldn't be worth it for the Void Point.
And it having Void as its bonus stat...there only two schools in 4e that have it, the Togashi Tattooed Monk and the Mirumoto Taoist Swordsmen. Personally based on the backstory of the clan I'd give the school Reflexes. Also I'd dump the redundant Tea Ceremony skill (they already get Meditation) in favor of Lore: Maho-Tsukai or Lore: Theology (if you want to avoid a Low Skill) again based on the clan backstory. Lastly I'd change the name as it really isn't a duelist school as it has very little to do with actual iaijutsu duels, it just uses it to power its R3 tech.
R1. Kinda crappy, ditch the Center Stance restriction and it becomes a pretty good Minor Clan tier technique and relatively unique as static bonuses are fairly rare in 4e.
R2. A good fluffy Minor Clan tier technique.
R3. Eliminate the raising to force additional raises, give it a duration, I'd say "During the reaction phase the Target may end this effect by making a Void roll vs result of the Awareness/Iaijutsu (Assessment) roll, if they fail then this effect ends at the end of the next round's Reaction Phase," and make it a once/encounter tech.
R4. Standard R4 SAA. Nothing to see here.
R5. A more restrictive version of Kakita 5 as you don't get a simple action (meaning you can't move or do anything else) and it costs a Void. A good Minor Clan tier capstone.
Why? It is obviously busted mechanically. With a fairly trivial roll it can permanently lock someone out of one of the primary game systems. The core idea, raise manipulation, isn't bad, there have been several techniques throughout the game's history that have done exactly that. It is just this particular one is something that is beyond the ken of anything else in L5R 4e. It is on par with 1e Kakita Artisan or 3E Ronin Duelist (not 3ER Ronin Duelist which actually fixed the school).
Who would you rather dick: the bayushi slut who knows that one weird trick with her tongue, or the crane virgin who will probably accidentally use teeth?
How likely is my death to hurt my clan in a way that advances Scorpion interests?
Then maybe it should not be worth the Void Point.
Worth testing but I can see already the dizzying heights that could be used for.
If it's not better than what literally any human can already get with a Void Point, then there's no reason for it to be part of the Technique at all.
As an aside, you don't lose Honor (or Glory or Status) for using Merchant Skills. You only lose honor for using Low Skills. As such, the last sentence of the Tako R1 Technique literally does nothing.
It could be made into a flat bonus equal to the relevant skill that is added on top of the 1k1 you normally get for spending a void point.
Exactly, there's no reason we can't fix it. The Lore seems alright, and lets you play something that's like a bit more elegant version of a Taoist Swordsman.
Anyways, my two cents - I agree with most of the rank changes but I think it would be nice if the school could keep the Void Point, even at the price of nerfs elsewhere, as its a unique thing for a school to have (honestly I'd like to see the school as a Courtier focused around Meditation and tea, but that's just me, I suppose No-Thought cuts are more engaging).
If you look at the Book of Void, in the creatures section, the butterfly is seen as being one of few creatures connected to the void. I assume this was where the clan was extrapolated from.
An interesting point.
I'd have to check, but don't the Yasuki and Yoritomo Courtier skills mention not losing Glory or Honor for use of Commerce? Maybe commerce got confused for all merchant skills.
You can encourage buying a high Void Ring without actually giving it flat out.
I'm not convinced.
The Taoist Swordsmen comes with a Disadvantage (Ascetic), effectively has a dead rank (it's Rank 3 is completely obsoleted by its Rank 5), and generally has an Armor TN of 5 less than its counterparts because it encourages not wearing armor. That is a high price for that 6 free exp.
The Togashi Tattooed Monk is mucking around with God-Blood. Shit's cray-cray so it gets its pass.
Oh well, I'm sure if we looked for ways to find similar levels of nerfs to the Taoist Swordsman we could.
But I'm fine with having a balanced and play-testable school at all, regardless of how it is reached.
I suppose we can still make it a Void focused school without giving it Void. It does use Center stance plenty.
It's not directly relevant to Schools, but it should also be noted that the only Family to ever get +1 Void was the direct line of Hantei. Toturi got Willpower and Iweko never had mechanics because there's only been one in the timeline that 4th ed covers.
They do, but again it literally does nothing. If you look in the Honor, Glory, and Status section (pg 89-91 Core) and at the beginning of the Skills section (pg 133) there is nothing about losing honor for using Merchant skills. Just that you might get funny looks for engaging in them, but that is it.
It's probably worth leaving in as an extra signal that they really just don't give a shit about participating in mercantile activities, where most other samurai at least pretend to not care at all.
Unlike Toturi, Iweko has the mandate of heaven and became divine after assuming the throne; I wouldn't be surprised if her line also gets Void.
Nah, Iweko's line gets -1 to all stats due to her tragic curse of retardation.
I think you mean AEG's writers. You don't blame the creation for the sins of the creator.
No, but we blame the creators for a retarded creation.
Ok Veeky Forums I made some edits to the Butterfly clan school.
Counter-change, on the Rank Three Tech, I changed the last line "until the start of YOUR next turn." This makes it usable as it would do nothing if it was until the start of their next turn as you normally don't make attacks and thus can't make maneuvers out of turn.
They at least want one valid heir from you they can use to press claims.
Good catch
Speaking of writing and retardation, I just looked at some new fluff changes.
What in the living fuck happened during Onyx Edition?
Scorpion sounds fine then. At least I might avoid ninjas and maybe my compliant nature can make be a long term asset. There's no way out of it when the Doji set you up to die publicly on a Kakita blade.
Nothing, it didn't make it out. The end of Ivory went double full retard because AEG was squeezing the last jewgolds out of its fanbase before selling it off to FFG.
It seems more like they tried to break the setting before handing it to FFG, jesus.
Hopefully FFG rolls back to a less retarded time for a reboot. And hopefully the Spider goes the way of the kebab and gets removed.
Oh man, a massive time rollback would be sexy as fuck.
Hey Veeky Forums
I see you're pretty good at coming up with minor clans so I wonder if you could give a piece of advice for something I'm thinking of for a next campaign.
I'm looking to do a minor clan that is based around remnants of the Hantei line - probably formed from some minor vassal family of the Hantei who are butthurt their bosses are gone. In the post-Hantei Rokugan they'll be mostly a courtier family and be involved in a lot of plots and such since they are suspicious of these new Emperors.
I was thinking of calling them the Oshika (stag) Clan, and I was thinking that, to give players something more active, and to play up on their idealized heritage, they'd have courtiers who are good at competitions, particularly hunting and maybe dueling.
Basically the idea is to get some potential haughty antagonists/allies who offer some more active challenges around court.
But aside from a name and a general concept I don't have much - I wonder if Veeky Forums has any recommendation? If it turns into something good I'm happy to put it with the others for all to use.
There's a large amount of Otomo who have traceable Hantei blood. I'm actually fairly sure that there's a few who had more claim to the throne than Toturi did in the end. Not sure if that's really something any later Emperor would want to make into an MC though you know?
There are probably also a lot of High Status Doji with significant Hantei blood as well. It has been noted in many sources that the Doji intermarried with the Imperial line fairly heavily, that is why they have a higher incidence of Epilepsy.
I'd cut out any actual connection to the Hantei line, and up the hunting role.
Maybe they used to be hunt organizers for the Hantei and were allowed to form a vassal family? And then at some point afterwards, helped out the Toturis and were allowed to make a minor clan.
Make them a courtier clan but give them some bonus to athletics, hunting and kyujutsu - maybe a bonus to using bows if its in a relaxed setting with time to prepare.
Wasn't the stag like the unofficial Hantei animal? I don't know if it would be seen as proper as to use it for a clan symbol, even after the Hantei are technically gone.
...
>I wonder if she's writing about me in her diary
No, its just about that sexy Mirumoto swordsman the Dragon ambassador has guarding them. He's built like a brick shithouse, but the shit is sexy and the bricks are ladyboners.
The Kitsuki family description in Great Clans talks about how plain their family tends to look, and says "there have sometimes been great romancers among the Dragon, but they are seldom Kitsuki." The Tamori are curt and reclusive, and the Togashi are weird and unsettling, so it stands to reason that the "great romancers" mentioned are typically Mirumoto.