/5eg/ Fifth Edition General

Sorry im literally retarded

alright, after a week of agonizing over this I'm gonna cave and ask for help.

so this is the second time I'm DMing a campaign, and just like last time everything is groovy other than introducing my characters to my setting. since the beginning of setting this campaign up I've wanted to start them off as slaves rowing a galley in the middle of a naval battle, but I gave them a little too much freedom in their character development and suddenly 3/7 of my PCs are small sized characters. I now need to come up with a way for seven characters who do not know each other to go from being slaves to relying upon each other for a period of time after an escape opportunity. my original plan was for the ship to get utterly wrecked and a column of rowers end up drifting on a piece of debris they are chained to, but now I have to include some little guys somehow. I've toyed with the idea of them being in cargo crates, but I just can't find a good way to bring everybody together.

does anyone know how I can get seven slaves, three of which aren't very useful for manual labor, forced together for a period of time? I'm open to non-rowing ship suggestions as well.

So... me and a bunch of my friends decided to start a campaign and, even though I only played a couple of weeks, this still makes me the most experienced player we have, so I offered to be the DM and I'm helping my players (none of them have ever played 5e and most never even played an RPG before) to create their character sheets.
I decided to start all of them on level 1 and play the Storm King's Thunder Campaign, any tips anyone could give me?

Picking Hobgoblin, thanks

I've got a thought for that. See how in that pic they're staggered, higher, lower, lowest? Have a fourth, even lower oar. Small-sized rowers could mean a ship can squeeze even more speed out of slaves, and they don't eat much or take up much sleep room either.

What's wrong with a small size slaves? Slave children are a thing right? Maybe not for rowing boat... but for other... need....

Go back to /pfg/, you fucking degenerate.

How stupid of an idea (rp or mechanic) would it be to have my Pureblood fighter be a manhunter/slaver?

I'm thinking I spend money on having a wagon, lots of manacles, and an oxen to be my beast of burden.

Captured humanoids get manacled and tied to the wagon while I take them back to the city for bounty/money.

Suggestions, ideas, or critique?

Depends on the tech level. Smaller slaves could man or repair siege weapons or machinery on the ship, or be part of a firefighting detail.

I know enough about game design to know that I don't know anything about game design, but the hardest part about filling in the Artificer in my opinion is that it's a utility class.

So what do you give a utility class? More utility? Damage? I dunno. Currently it's mostly an RP feature later on, but it hits pretty hard right away. I really can't tell if that's intentional, an oversight, or they didn't know what to do and just printed it as-is and are waiting for feedback.

I also don't know offhand how other classes are structured in terms of RP abilities, and what levels certain power spikes come at, and such.

But my gut says replace it with an RP oriented ability.

Yes.

Abandon everything and play them through the starter set using the premade characters.

Trust me.

More than 3 attunement slots also seems dumb, or is this just me?

As a bladesinger, can I wield a crossbow during bladesong? It only outright forbids making two-handed attacks, so it should work with hand crossbows, no?

Is it just me or is the Alchemist damage seem... pretty weak?

Sure it's scale like sneak attack but you don't get initial damage dice (1d8 rapier, 2d6 thunderous cannon) or Dexterity to damage. You also can't critical since it's a saving throw.

yeah my issue isn't as much figuring out what small slaves can do, it's more of finding a reasonable way to get three small slaves and four medium slaves to end up isolated from other slaves, into a situation where they are more or less reliant upon each other. I can't think of a way to get them together without it seeming a little bit forced because of the little dudes.

right now my back up plan is a slaver wagon ambush, with small slaves in crates and medium slaves in bondage walking behind in two columns. that'd give me plenty of opportunity to get them together in a sensible way, it's just not quite as cinematic of a beginning as pushing boats in an oceanic war.

I actually don't have any issues with sexual slavery, not even in a magical realm way but in a realism way, but I'd rather not start a character out with dicks inside of them.

You could dual-wield while bladesong. But why would you use a hand crossbow on bladesinger? Are you a Drow or something?

What kind of pervert mind are you? Small size slave are good for fetching things. Acting as a foot stool. Entertaining you via song and stuff like that... totally... yeah...

I'm thinking of going arcane trickster and dipping into Bladesinger for the AC. Crossbow Expert means I get two attacks with my attack action, and can then make two attacks more with my bonus action.

/stg/ mind

Just kill all the other slaves. The small guys and their handlers arrive to put out a fire from a scorpion/ballista, but as they arrive a trireme crashes right through the rower's deck and separates them from the rest.

You could do a bunch of stuff with the handlers; they're attacked by marines from on board the trireme, they straight up get killed by the ramming, or your small guys see a chance to overpower them.

>two attacks with attack action, two attacks more with bonus action

Am I just missing something?
Do you not only get one attack action and then a bonus action one with Crossbow Expert?
I mean I'm playing a crossbow expert rogue right now atleast.

Sorry, I missed part of my reply. Bladesinger at level four or six or something gives you two attacks with your attack action.

Think of playing a Firbolg or wood elf druid of the land. How should I get to act about people taking stuff the woods to service. I was thinking as long the party does go killing wildlife for no reason attempts to burn down massive areas of forest I should be good. I thinking of playing him as a learned member of group of sages of the woods that would help protect a nearby small city from monsters and help their crops in return for payment.

> and can then make two attacks more with my bonus action.
???

>"Way ahead of schedule"
Bump limit was already reached so no reason to say it was made early

>We're all pretty much in agreement that Mechanical Servant class feature is really out of place for artificer.
I don't

>What would you replace it with?
If you really hate it, make a subclasse based on it, I don't know what I would replace it with

Extra attack only apply to attack action.
It did nothing to your bonus action attack from Crossbow Expert.

"Starting at 6th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn."

It doesn't apply to bonus action though..

Oh, alright. I still think it's pretty decent. Two attacks in my action means a good chance of hitting and getting my sneak attack damage, and if I somehow miss both I can use my bonus for a last try, otherwise the bonus can cast some good spell or be used for movement or to hide.

Is it worth getting Eldritch Blast (via magic initiate) as Bard?

No

Hi. This may seem odd, but I'm Mike Mearls, and I'd like to offer you a paid internship to work on UA. I've never seen anyone with as great a grasp of 5e design theory as you. Can I use that mech in artificer part 3?

You need to be like... level 9 for that though..
3 AT / 6 Bladesinger.

At that level a pure Wizard could just use Animate Object and attack 10 times at +8 / 1d4+4.

It's fine I guess? Cantrips are always a reasonably safe option due to the by-level scaling, but there could be a better ASI or feat depending on your current situation.

Just go into warlock and grab it together with the invocation. Bard+Warlock means you get utility, some good control spells, and you only need Agonising Blast to get nearly full Warlock blasting prowess.
Sure, but I think my way is cooler. If I just wanted to do damage good I'd be running some horrid paladin multi.

The mechanical servant isn't out of place for the artificer, it's out of size. Make it small or smaller and remove the beast restriction. Maybe increase the cr limit, but I'd have to evaluate that.

Eldritch Blast and Sneak Attack are consolation prizes for playing their respective classes. They aren't something you go out of your way for.

Rogues are already one of the best classes, without sneak attack though

Warlocks are arguably pretty great too, even without eldritch blast.

there's still the matter of them ending up on something afloat together, but small guys as firefighters is a very good idea, especially considering setting ships on fire is a huge part of naval warfare in this setting as it's bronze age. I'll meditate on it, ridiculous how challenging of a puzzle this has been for me.

> Multiclass for 2 level
> On a Bard

No. Magical Secret is too good to be delay.

I won't fall for this bait

I think you're too in love with multiclass. That seems like something a 3.5 player would say.

One of the guys I play with did exactly that and he's wrecking in combat with his force damage, but sure.
I guess, but I don't mind losing out on a few d6 damage, the crummy rogue capstone, and an ASI. I rolled damn well.

What about the opinion do you think is b8?

Rogues get expertise and reliable talent. They have utility outside of combat that only bards can beat, and in combat they are unbeatable grapplers, making them useful and desirable for murder hobos even if they never land a sneak attack.

Warlocks get something no other caster does until late game: unlimited casting of several useful spells. This gives them quite a bit of out of combat utility (I rank them as the third overall in this category). Pact of the tome and chain each add significantly to this as well. If you go blade, you can outdamage eldritch blast with the right feats, and contribute more damage than rangers, rogues, paladins and monks.

As a beginner DM whats the best module to do thats a good balance between my skill as a DM and their experiences as semi-new players? Is the starter set really that bad? What if I add a bunch of side activities and stuff?

Unbeatable grapplers?
Elaborate please, haven't heard of this before.

Well. No one read my question last thread. Is there any good duet game (one GM, one PC) adventure PDF somewhere? I plan to start playing with my 12yo niece and i am not good at making my own quests (yet)

Expertise in athletics. Rogues only really need Dex and that's for AC, so you can easily put your second highest score/racial bonus into strength.

So ~16 STR with point buy and you have +7 to Grapple rolls at level 1. Put an ASI into it and by level 5 you can get a +10 to every grapple check, after which you can shove them prone and shank them into tomorrow with sneak attack.

If you have a magic item class in your game then adding an additional item slot seems meaningful.

Expertise can get you +7 on athletics from level 1
Nearly every grappling build takes at least 1 level of rogue (or 3 of bard)

That is actually a fair point and you just gave me a character concept.

Cheers man, hadn't considered that at all and I've always wanted to play a grapple character that worked.

Modules are bad to start off with as a dm, because they encourage bad habits. If you do go with a module, lost mines of phandever or whatever is good. Just don't be afraid to improvise.

Monsters in the first manual rarely have any proficiency in athletics or acrobatics. A rogue that takes expertise in athletics and later gets reliable talent is almost inescapable by any monster manual monster.

Since shoving works the same way, a rogue can very easily have two enemies reliably pinned, granting auto advantage to everyone else and no movement. Multiclassing recommendations are something with extra attack and Bard to get enlarge person.

Eldeitch blast damage is good. But being able to counterspell stuff or get a Meteor shooting horse is both better and cooler.

But at level 11, 3d10+15 = 20.5 average damage.

Pure Valor Bard could do 4d8+20 = 38 average damage with Swift Quiver up.

Pure Lore Bard could... do whatever the hell they want.

Lore Bard is a better grappler with cutting word and the ability to inspire self.

Sure, but lore bard is better at everything. It's pretty much the best archetype of the best class.

Agree

Not that guy, but what bad habits?

*31.5 damage from Eldritch blast

Inflexibility. Your players will do something that isn't accounted for in the adventure, and in my experience, most new DMs don't feel in control over the story of a premade adventure path. Since they feel constrained by the story, they flounder when confronted with the unexpected.

>Modules are bad to start off with as a dm, because they encourage bad habits
I know not to read directly from the book or to take encounters directly from the book.

After getting reliable talent, though, Grappler Rogues are physically incapable of getting below 20 (assuming at least 14 Str) on an athletics check without consuming limited resources like bardic inspiration.

I'm not denying that Lore Bard is a stronger class overall, but I do think that Rogue is a more reliable grappler.

Say I want to play an artificer but don't want to use the mechanical servant.

What should I replace it with?

They can be slave merchandise. Slaves weren't used only for manual labor, having one serve as a tutor for some rich man's child was a common thing (so that's a use for a Gnome, for example).

Grapple Rogues sacrifice their main strength: mobility, and melee is a huge risk for them. "16 Str" = 9 points not going into a minimum 14 Constitution for a melee participant or Wis/Cha that have better associated checks. Not to mention with grappling you are looking at two dedicated rounds to create a softlock in 5erg Rush edition.

>unlimited casting of several useful spells
Ritual Casting, and also short rests are very campaign dependent.

At that level, Bard can already get Bigby's hand though... So they can grapple Huge creature if they want to.

Animal companion.

Do the small races have extended lifespans? That adds value.

Warlocks have unlimited, non ritual casting of alter self, disguise self, silent image, and levitate, iirc. There's more too.

Grapple rogue a can be built survivable, and their bonus actions actually enhance their mobility in the grapple.

I don't mind Mechanical Servant. I'm making a Machinist specialty where the 9th, 14th, and 17th level features are based around improvements to your Servant.

I love this UA, my only disappointment being that the Gunsmith seems very one-note. I'm considering this as a substitute; this version is very rough, and I need to come up with more Infusions for things other than those from Gunslinger, but I wanted to make it a lot more tinker-y.

Got a few minutes, anons?

Rogues are okay and a well designed class I think, but lose out against full casters. They lose out when you start to consider paladins and full casters, and they don't really do as much damage as other martials can. But, compared to other martials, their utility is more fun and probably more useful, so I'd put them at the second tier.

Bladelocks are stupid. You're sacrificing so much, going MAD and trying to get yourself killed in exchange for pitiful damage. You're forsaking your role for peanuts. The at-will spells are good, but wizards can still cast all those spells with a spell slot, which they get plenty of in comparison to warlock. If you can't make full use of those spells 24/7 then those talents are going to waste.
The real talent of the warlock is repelling agonizing blast. It's a brilliant ranged attack that keeps enemies from being able to attack your team by keeping their distance. It works brilliantly alongside sorcerer levels, and you can even throw a couple of fighter levels in there. However, this is warlock's main gimmick, and while it's certainly great I wouldn't say it's enough to put them on tier 1 unless you have an all-ranged party... If you have an all-ranged party, sorlock would definitely be tier 1.

Name some creatures that use illusions, trickery, deceit, and other such shenanigans to trick a character into unknowingly becoming their servant

>Name some creatures that use illusions, trickery, deceit, and other such shenanigans to trick a character into unknowingly becoming their servant
Fae

Gnomes.

PC

Humans.

>Grapple Rogues sacrifice their main strength: mobility
Just use cunning action to dash after you grapple them. You'll have at least normal mobility while still shanking them and dragging them wherever.
>"16 Str" = 9 points not going into a minimum 14 Constitution for a melee participant or Wis/Cha that have better associated checks
If you're playing a Grappler rogue you're not going to be going for the "Better" associated checks in the first place. But Constitution can still be fairly easily maintained, and a reasonable Concentration.
>Bugbear
>15(+1) Dex, 14(+2) Str, 14 Con, 12 Wis, 8 Int, 8 Cha
As long as you have a party that knows you're going for a grappler rogue and not a normal rogue you can build around it.

Gods

>being a grapple rogue
>not grappler barbarogue
But why?

Elves

>the crummy rogue capstone
What is this meme? Once per short rest, when you lose, you actually win. It's better than Action Surge.

To quote trump: Wrong!

On so many levels too.

A wizards high level features all give you unlimited casting of certain spells which you pick. These are excellent features and add a tin of value to the wizard class at those high levels 17-18 iirc.

Warlocks get to do it from level 2 on, antithesis with a limited but excellent selection of spells. This is pretty standard for warlocks, which are quite similar to what rogues are: classes that are always online. If your dm actually follows the encounter/adventuring day guidelines, a warlock will shine while a wizard will do worse. If your dm allows long rests after every encounter in a dungeon, then the wizard is better.

Agonizing blast is great, but not worth taking before level 5, and repelling blast is only situationally useful. Many times using it would actually let the enemy disengage from your martials for free.

Bladelock builds deal twice as much damage as eldritch blast builds. It is not piddly damage. Take a paladin level at 1 for plate armor proficiency.

You're never going to get any of those things so multiclass away.

>To quote trump: *pissing noises*
That's also me re: your argument for Bladelocks.

>Being a grappler barbarogue
>Not a grappler bardarogue

But why?

Do you even have an argument, or are you just grasping at irrelevant things to justify ignoring an entire opposing argument like most other liberals?

women

Half casting class or a reserve of points that can be use to infuse another player equiptment

>Multiclassing recommendations are something with extra attack
A level 5 fighter can action surge to grab and shove two creatures in one round, while wearing heavy armor and having good HP. A rogue dip helps, but the main part of grappling is not rogue. Rogues are bad grapplers.

Lore bards are bad at this too.

A good grappler is tough, with multiple attacks, and really good athletics checks.

No one here wants to hear you cry about people being mean on the internet. Get back in your echo chamber.

He's just triggered by you mentioning the idiot in chief

>my amazing variant human 20 strength PAM GWM multiclass melee warlock does superior damage in a fucking theoretical vacuum

Lmao,

Is this your attempt at bait or are you stupid?

Actually provide critique towards the other anons work instead of getting triggered by a reference.