Is there a single fantasy series where Dwarves aren't huge assholes?

Dwemer

youtube.com/watch?v=KjHclWPVij0

Wouldn't they be tiny assholes?

Is there a single fantasy series where Humans aren't huge assholes?

Age of Sigmar :^)

Is there any in which they ARE?

Off the top of my head, LotR, Warhammer, Discworld all have individual dwarves that are sometimes assholes, sure, but as a race they tend towards being good and honourable

Why are all the dwarves in almost every setting literally the same?

I think it is just a thing in the movie. In the book the dwarves of the Lonely Mountain and the elves have a feud going because the elf king was pissed they didn't deliver some treasure he commissioned, which they withheld because, the dwarves claim, he did not pay. Really it was probably Thingol (the elf king at the time) being a cunt, apparently he was known to be very, very greedy.

Apparently the blood feud between the elves and dwarves at large stems from the elfves' attempted eradication of the Petty Dwarves at some point in ancient history.

>The great Dwarves despised the Petty-dwarves, who were (it is said) the descendants of Dwarves who had left or been driven out from the Communities, being deformed or undersized, or slothful and rebellious. But they still acknowledged their kinship and resented any injuries done to them. Indeed it was one of their grievances against the Eldar that they had hunted and slain their lesser kin, who had settled in Beleriand before the Elves came there. This grievance was set aside, when treaties were made between the Dwarves and the Sindar, in consideration of the plea that the Petty-dwarves had never declared themselves to the Eldar, nor presented any claims to land or habitations, but had at once attacked the newcomers in darkness and ambush. But the grievance still smouldered, as was later seen in the case of Mîm, the only Petty-dwarf who played a memorable part in the Annals of Beleriand.

That was about Nauglamír and the issue was more complicated than calling Thingol a cunt and greedy, especially the last thing I don't remember. Voice of god itself declared the dwarves that killed him murderers.

I was referring to this exerpt I found from the Hobbit:
>It was also the dungeon of his prisoners. So to the cave they dragged Thorin-not too gently, for they did not love dwarves, and thought he was an enemy. In ancient days they [MY NOTE: “they” = “the Elves”] had had wars with some of the dwarves, whom they accused of stealing their treasure. It is only fair to say that the dwarves gave a different account, and said that they only took what was their due, for the elf-king [MY NOTE: Thingol Greycloak of Beleriand] had bargained with them to shape his raw gold and silver, and had afterwards refused to give them their pay. If the elf-king had a weakness it was for treasure, especially for silver and white gems; and though his hoard was rich, he was ever eager for more, since he had not yet as great a treasure as other elf-lords of old. His people neither mined nor worked metals or jewels, nor did they bother much with trade or with tilling the earth. All this was well known to every dwarf, though Thorin’s family had had nothing to do with the old quarrel I have spoken of. Consequently Thorin was angry at their treatment of him, when they took their spell off him and he came to his senses; and also he was determined that no word of gold or jewels should be dragged out of him.

I'm not really read up on all the meta stuff Tolkien did, honestly.

With voice of god I meant the Silmarillion, don't know if Tolkien discussed this matter in his letters.

They're not really Dwarves, though, are they?
They're just architect elves.

They are whatever fits your argument.

Salted pork?

If they aren't the same, how are we supposed to understand that they are Dwarves?

If you don't think the dwemer were huge assholes you need to read up on more TES lore

Dwarves kinda ARE assholes. Tolkien based his dwarves to some extent on the dwarves of germanic/norse mythology. Greedy smiths who live underground. Shit, in the old sagas proto-Smaug aka Fafnir was a dwarf who was cursed to become a serpent for murdering his father to claim his treasure, a treasure he then guards jealously.

Didnt he also base some of their attributes on Jews? Not to make the obvious money-grubbing joke but I read somewhere that the nature of the exile from the Lonely Mountain was inspired by the history of the Jewish people

i might be wrong but i think those dwarves are more of a overly proud smith

It's from the silmarillion

He said he never meant to make parallels between dwarves and jews, and any that arose were pure coincidence. In general he didn't make any race in LotR to reflect real life peoples, with the exception of hobbits: they were based on his neighbors

>Didnt he also base some of their attributes on Jews?

He did. It shows up in their language which gives a very Hebraic-sounding pronunciation.

Dwemers were the hugest assholes in all of TES and quite possibly the hugest asshole dwarves to ever exist. That's just what happens when you combine elves and dwarves into one supremely snooty race

How the fuck are Dwarves arseholes in the Lord of the Rings exactly?

To be honest, at least they weren't trying to destroy existence like the Altmer.

They're just trying to get back to the good old days before the original asshole Lorkhan fucked it all up

Tolkien didn't derive the dwarven characteristics from jews as such; but you're right about him giving them a jewish-esque role in the world. They're the displaced people without a home, they integrate into the societies they find themselves in and learn the language of the land, using their language only between themselves. Like said, he never went out of his way to write analogies for real world peoples into the world. He very much disliked the fact that people would go hunt for them (which is only natural; we've a major tendency to see patterns after all).

And like I said, the tendency towards greed is straight out of norse mythology alongside many of the names he used for them. Tolkien was not an anti-semite, far from it. If anything the label's been pushed onto him by people who want his work to represent their ideals, much like Nietzsche's alleged anti-semitism (when the man, in reality, called anti-semites "aborted foetuses" in one of his letters).

Dwarves are like a race of fraternity brothers.

If they're being assholes to you, you deserve it.

I'd argue Dragon Age dwarves are arseholes. Individually they're fine but they're collectively complete arses with their heads stuck up their arse's arse.

But maybe they become wonderful people in Inquisition, I wouldn't know.

The "original" Dwarves were literally Dark Elves, so that's nothing new.

>bump

They initially had a great trade with elves, but weren't paid for their work (the absolute finest of an age of fine work).
When they tried to get paid they had thwir best craftsmen get massacred.

It doesn't tend to lend well to fuzzy feelings.

Do you mean after they killed an elf king?

They're not that bad when you consider that they're literally constantly fighting the darkspawn in the deep roads.

Like when the blight ends the darkspawn go back into the deep roads and the dwarves literally have to fight 24/7 to keep the last Thaigs from being overwhelmed. That's why the legion of the dead exists.

Most dwarves are assholes to surfacers because the surfacers don't get that, they think the darkspawn go away after the blight is over and don't understand how hard the dwarves have to fight.

inb4 dwarven supremacist. fuck no, i always play as human

Is this nigga serious?

Some genius decided to call other small races with different names instead of "wood dwarves", "dark dwarves", "comfy dwarves", etc. and nowadays only the strong mountain warrior dwarf remains.

It was to be expected, really, most fantasy races go like this unlike elves.

Dwarf Fortress. You just end up feeling bad for them.

Except Dwemer aren't actually "dwarves," that was a name given to them by the proto-giants.

However, the Dwemer were fantastic assholes regardless of stature..

...Final Fantasy? The Dwarves in 4 and 9 are pretty cool.

But for Veeky Forums relevant ones I got nothing.

Most of them.

Dwarves are generally isolationists who are never given a reason not to be, and actually do help out the other good races when shit hits the fan.

Even in Warhammer Fantasy AKA "everyone is dicks, not in space" the Dwarfs are about a dickish as anyone would expect given their history.

In gaining Tolkien's perspective, its important to remember the following:
1) Tolkien really liked Jews.
2) Dwarves are based on Jews.
3) Tolkien was very religious but had an independent view from the church, and the most hardcore of modern era Christians that don't parrot what their priest says tend to view the Old Testament version of the Jews which is "dindu nuffin" since every fucked up thing they did, genociding tribes mainly, is because God told them to do it.

In Tolkien's eyes, the Dwarves/Jews are hardworking and earned their treasures. The greedy non-Dwarves/Jews resent them for the treasure and look for excuses to wheedle it out of them (like Orcs/WW2 Germans) which causes reciprocated resentment. So the Elves wanting to get the riches of the Dwarves is similar to forcing out the Jews to claim their lands and property, something that was done repeatedly throughout history and not just by the Nazis. This is why the Wood Elves, who aren't actually villains, still act like dicks to the Dwarves.

The Elder Scrolls.

In TES ever culture is a slave-holding bunch of savages through, other than the Argonians who only have free will to as much as the Hist allows them. Khajit aren't outright dicks as a race, but they're barely even organized as a culture anyway.

You guys should really check this, regarding dorfs and elves in JRRT.

middle-earth.xenite.org/2012/05/15/what-was-the-cause-of-strife-between-elves-and-dwarves/

It's not what one would probably think, and funniest still, it's pretty much undecided.

Magic's Kaladesh. They're daredevil pilots and mechanics mostly.

I already quoted that page here

Nigger, Altmer don't want to destroy existence, they want to unmake Nirn, to be free of limits of mortality and exists as spirits again.
Now Dwemer (in the state they are in now) have no other desires or thoughts other than NOPE things out of existence completely.

When dwarves first met elves they literally considered dwarves to be bipedal animals (which is literally what the elf word for dwarf means) and hunted them for sport. Tolkien dwarves are right to hate Tolkien elves, it's literally jews and nazis, except the elves were even worse than nazis.

The greedy bastards wanted a silmaril. That shit is cursed.
And the Noldor are the ones who taught them all their fine crafting skills to begin with.

This is bullshit

>They don't want to destroy the world
>they just want to destroy the world so they can live as spirits while everything else dies.

Warhammer

Destroy =! Unmake

If Altmer succeed, there will just be no more mortal planet and limits, all mortals left alive will be as gods.

If what's left of Dwemer succeeds, there will be nothing.

>all mortals left alive will be as gods.
No only elves will be in that boat, beastfolk and humanity will be fucked because everything they are is based on mundus.

/thread

Dorf masterrace

That's wrong you dumb fuck. All mortals except Hist come from the same stock, Ehlnofey, who are degenerate Aedric spirits. Modern Thalmor only wants to erase Men because they reinforce this prison-world through their Lorkhan worship.
Stop worshipping literal scum "god" and you're good to go.

>Is there a single fantasy series where Dwarves aren't huge assholes?
The Inheritance series. You know, Eragon. Not a fantastic series but the dwarves are pretty chill. The elves got hit twice with the asshole stick instead.

This. The series might've been mediocre, and especially turned to shore in the end stretch, but the Dwarves in it were almost consistently bro-tier.
Plus I found the idea of carving out a petrified forest as punishment to be hilarious

>Is there a setting where dwarves aren't assholes?
>Sure this one and this one though they are still assholes.

In warmahordes, when definitely not chaos is fucking up the continent and enslaving humanity dwarfs are total bros and teach the oppressed humans how to make massive mecha to kick the barbarian's asses back over the sea

Aren't the Red Guard also supposed to be from the previous Kalpa?

Killing evil stuff doesn't make you not an arsehole.

In Elizabeth Moon's Paksenarrion books, the dwarves are the only race that aren't complete dicks 103% of the time. People like to think I hate elves because it's a Veeky Forums tradition, but no, I've hated elves since the first time I read The Shepherd's Daughter.

In Warhammer, it depends on your sources. A Dwarf king once declared a full-scale war because one architect in his hold was short-changed by three copper coins, on his payment of four wagon-loads of gold.

Because they are based on the Norse mythological dwarves.

Dwarfaboos will defend this.

What did he mean by this?

Damn straight we will. You make a deal, you honor that deal. Not our fault other races are too cowardly to properly punish someone trying to cheat them.

Well, there's also the caste system. Though, realistically, that's just a more honest version of what happens on the surface.

Drow are just a more honest version of what happens on the surface. Are drow best race?

I wasn't saying that, just that really the caste thing doesn't make them that much worse than a regular medieval kingdom.

I was under the impression that their defining characteristic was that they were tiny assholes.

Because you can't improve on perfection.

>10.Then was Môtsognir created greatest of all the dwarfs, and Durin second; there in man's likeness they created many dwarfs from earth, as Durin said.

11.Nýi and Nidi, Nordri and Sudri, Austri and Vestri, Althiôf, Dvalin Nâr and Nâin, Niping, Dain, Bivör, Bavör, Bömbur, Nori, An and Anar, Ai, Miodvitnir,

12.Veig and Gandâlf, Vindâlf, Thrain, Thekk and Thorin, Thrôr, Vitr, and Litr, Nûr and Nýrâd, Regin and Râdsvid. Now of the dwarfs I have rightly told.

13.Fili, Kili, Fundin, Nali, Hepti, Vili, Hanar, Svior, Billing, Bruni, Bild, Bûri, Frâr, Hornbori, Fræg and Lôni, Aurvang, Iari, Eikinskialdi.

From >The Eldar Eddas

gutenberg.org/ebooks/14726

So why are they the same?

I think he later acknowledged parallels in that they were a race of craftsmen (apparently skilled trades were favoured by Jewish people at some point in time and space) who were displaced from their homeland, would go amongst other lands and peoples but retain a core community that spoke its own language, but he hated allegory and wouldn't have deliberately made it so.

The Dwarves from Kulmorost Divided Bro-tier with the Elves, they just look down a bit on other races for being less educated than they are.
Only huge flaw is they are really assholish towards their lower classes.

Assholes, as expected. Guy most likely just made a calculation error.

There are no dwarves in TES, only another kind of elf.

Todd will bring them back somehow and male them short like regular Dwarves, screencap this

Fanfiction don't counts.

Alcohol consumption is seen as distasteful in the cities and higher classes.
Cheap alcohol is very popular among the working poor and the rural folk though.
Elves like good wines, and elvish wines are the only alcohol appreciated by the high classes and the nobility.

Drifters

An Irish legend tells of the Thrig of Tone, a dwarf who lived underground and knew a little magic. He was caught in a trap but freed by the young hero Finn MacCuhal (who served as a model for the bard class and also some druidic elements). MacCuhal wanted to impress the girl that he liked. So the Thrig of Tone used his craft to make a magical flute from a reed. He gave this flute to MacCuhal and taught him how to play it. When MacCuhal played the reed flute, the girl began to dance, and pretty soon all of the animals joined in, dancing their way over to them.

But the witches had been watching Finn and trying to figure out how to get rid of him. As two great snakes came dancing along, the witch cast a spell on the one snake, deafening it. It slithered into the den and began casting it's coils around the girl and MacCuhal. But as Finn continued to play, the other snake cast a loop around the first and choked it to death, freeing them.

For this, the witches turned their wrath on the Thrig of Tone. They captured him and took him underground, torturing him at their leisure with sharp pins. But as Finn began to grow more powerful, first by consuming the Salmon of Wisdom, and then by managing to control the powerful artifact the Harp of Dagda, the witches grew concerned. They knew the prophecy that Finn would undo the Storm Lord's hold over the emerald island. So they left the Thrig of Tone and went all out against Finn, who by this time had gathered the help of the nature goddess. The Thrig of Tone managed to escape the cage he was in, and went into hiding. They say that he sometimes meets lost travelers in the wood, sometimes doing them good, and sometimes playing pranks on them, but more often doing good because of the direness of the times. And that's my story about the good dwarf the Thrig of Tone.

Well, the next guy will be more careful, won't he?

I am pretty sure this has to do with "not trusting a dwarf's word". Especially one you're willing to spend four wagons of gold (minus 3 copper).

If anything, the person paying the sum was AWARE the dwarf would notice it, and off-offhandedly dismissed the fact he did not keep his part of the bargain.

It's like you're being tasked with publicly praising someone you dislike, do a 10 minute speech, and end it with a "... but you're probably a child rapist".

It's just 6 words.

>tfw Space Dwarf Gods look like this

Start shit, get hit.

It really gives you a WTF! moment when you meet the commander of the Legion of the Dead. Can't remember exactly how it went but it was something like this;

>Dude we need help for Blight
>Get fucked surfacer. It's Blight 24/7 down here. Your nightmares are my everyday.
>No seriously bro, there is an actual Blight going on.
>Really? Well that would explain why my jobs been a little easier lately.

That's when it hits you that in Dragon Age they have every right to be a little abrasive.

Thankfully they weren't ruined in DA:Cisquisition, if only because they were never mentioned.

Maybe they were mentioned more in some of the DLC. I wouldn't know PC is too shit to run it and I can't be bothered buying anything after the 360.

Riftwar saga dwarves are pretty based