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It's magic.

Jumpers! What is your plan to survive the End of the Universe?

I create energy ex nihlo so it's a non-concern.

>Do one simple, meta-knowledge thing to avoid the plot
>Nothing fun happens if you do this
>But no one dies either
What are some jumps where you can do this? Are you morally obligated to do this? What do you do instead for ten years if you do this?

Which jumps have non-Companion followers, like the Loyal Butler from the Batman Trilogy?

Make another one.
Also

Little girl despair is just that much tastier apparently.

Create new ones that don't have an End?

Which one? I have multiple plans but they are all for different EotW scenarios.

West Wing has Security Detail.

I spam this question ad nauseam until a not!universe gets so tired of hearing it it explodes ala a new Big Bang and creates a new universe. Then I just chill until sapient life shows back up so I have something to stick my dick in.

We only have the info we're given, but from the looks of things it just seems to be that witches give that much more energy.
You could think of it as kindof the different between solar energy (cheap, renewable energy) and a nuclear reactor.

Fuck, just for the sake of referencing, when Madoka went full Gretchen, Kyubey said something to the effect of, "Your world is going to die now, this one is so powerful there's basically no way you can stop it... but it doesn't really matter to me, because I filled my quota for this planet."
Which means that the energy Madoka released from becoming a witch was so unbelievably massive that he was willing to completely lose out on all future ability to farm that planet for energy just to get his hands on it.

That's a shit ton of energy.

how? in what amounts?

It's because Kyubey isn't actually interested in combating entropy. Like all Gen Urobuchi antagonists that dress their motivations up in pseudo-philosphical garbage, his real goal is just to cause as much suffering as possible. Forcing little girls to kill each other is therefore preferable to him.

Incredibles has a few:
* the on-call services of an exceptional babysitter
* the Omnidroid, "complete with learning AI and eternal loyalty"
* Nomanisan Island, which optionally comes with "a full staff of mooks to man the base, which replenishes every jump with new setting-specific and loyal henchmen".

OP, did you put the title in the username field? ...the tripcode from the thread number, isn't it.

Magic.

It's not your problem.

It's.

Literally.

Magic.

Accept that all things must end, in their time. That which matters from the universe I have long since helped blossom into things that can escape it, and while they are strange and terrifying things this is nothing more than childhood's end. Omnia mutantur, nihil interit.

By moving to an entirely new universe through judicious use of the second magic.

Yes. I am ashamed. Very ashamed.

... so ...

What're some things I can get through the course of jumpchain that can be powered by despair?
How can I harness despair for my own use?

It's literally Kyubey's own testimony being the only thing we have telling us that his goal is a noble one, when all his actions point to him being a sadistic monster. And here's where you go "but Kyubey never lies, he just leaves out important details, if he says he's combating entropy then he really is". Leaving aside the issue that his description of combating entropy is vague enough that he could still be doing something selfish and evil, you know who really benefits from a reputation of never lying? A liar.

Question for the Exalted fags. Spirit Charms are weak compared to Exalted Charms right? Is there any point to being a demon/godblooded instead of a half-caste in the mortal gauntlet then? Do they get anything nice to even things out?

Master of Magic?

Since a lot of what you're getting is non-answers I'll answer some stuff.

Most late-chain jumpers have a white hole generators Personally I just like making generators that work on Video Game Logic, ala Supreme Commander once I get to it, or cute animals via Eggman Stuff which has a nicer but less power intensive form and also nets you Chaos Emerald infinite energy tech too, though you'll need CE's for that stuff to work. Fates First Magic combo'd with Wish Granting allows you to throw magic at the problem until it stops being one, via creating magic out of nothing and then using Wish Granting to net results.

Very flexible charm-set is very flexible. For the spirit charms, depending on the God, the restrictions such as Essence and such minimums could be called vague guidelines at points.

This write-up is so long I'm so sorry oh my god.

“Take this, asshole.” I muttered, weaving a sleeping spell in the gun. I didn't really expect him to get knocked out, and indeed he wasn't. It's better to try, at least. The force at least made him stagger. The Peacemaker was a powerful gun that could take out a tank with a good shot, but Knives was a plant. He was relatively unaffected by it. But his brief stagger was enough to embolden me to continue shooting at him.

Meanwhile, Vash was struggling to keep Knives's Angel Arm away from us. I could see him straining to keep the energy absorbed, and that it might not end well if I didn't act now. I aimed at Knives's chest, weaving another sleep spell in the bullet.

Through the chaos, I could very faintly see Knives's face. His eyes drowsily blinked.

He collapsed on the spot, exhausted and sleeping.

Spirit charms are often weak compared to Exalted charms. The mechanics for spirits are intentionally vague and dependent on GM interpretation, though, specifically so that a given spirit can have more powerful charms without having to make up completely custom abilities. Some spirits are quite powerful. But yes, it is true that the majority are weaker than an Exalted of equal Essence.. The main things to gain from spirit charms are their Essence and Willpower boosters, and Principle of Motion. The first gives them access to much larger resource pools than an equivalent Exalted would have. The second gives them "multiple independent actions", which lets them for a brief time act faster than nearly anything else in the setting, there are very few Exalted charms that grant access to multiple independent actions. It is brief, though, each time they use Principle of Motion they get a fixed number of independent actions to use, and they can only refill the pool by using Principle of Motion again. PoM is a pretty expensive charm, so usually they stock up on them ahead of time and use them all for one burst of speed in critical moments.

>I'm going to throw out all the details of a setting and overthink it because I don't like the premise

Fine, go jump Kamen Rider or something where all your problems can be kicked in the face. Just don't pretend your intellectual dishonesty has any actual basis in canon.

You have no information contradicting him. You can't run off of pure fanon.

>This write-up is so long I'm so sorry oh my god.

NO! Keep going! I'm enjoying it!

There are artbooks and shit that describe the setting's lore. And here's where you go "but they're written from the perspective of the weasel" except no, no they're very much not.

Honestly sounds like you're trying to argue the setting doesn't work the way it says it does out of butt hurt. You're busy insisting that Kyubey must have lied for the hell of it when the entire point of the character is that he never does. Especially since Rebellion shows that they really are doing their best to harvest as much energy as possible, which fits with the stated goal.

Don't act like your intellectual dishonesty has any more than cursory basis in canon.

I have no reliable information supporting him, either. I judge the man by his actions, not his words. Even if he's telling the truth, I still would oppose him, because saving the world isn't worth it if it isn't a world worth saving. I would not want to live in a universe where entropy is forever staved off at the cost of that world being awful. That's what he's creating, an eternal hell.

So are you Timmy, or just an autist who decided to arbitrarily argue that huge chunks of the setting aren't valid?

> And here's where you go
user, I don't know how to tell you this but, I'm the one making the long-winded explanations about how Kyubey tells the truth and we just have to work with the info we're given.
"It's just magic" is another guy.

And, as I said back here , if you want to believe Kyubey's got some alterior motive, that's your deal. You're free to do that. But there's no other information given in the series, so after that, you prettymuch just have to make shit up about why he's doing this.
The term for that is fanfiction.

Unless you're literally saying "He's just fulfilling his contract for Urobuchi-sama! He's evil because he's supposed to be evil!"
But honestly I think that's a little more openly meta (or else a little more one-dimensional, depending on which direction you want to go) than Uro would shoot for.

Can you point me to them? If you can provide scans, I'll concede the point. I'll still think Kyubey is a monster that needs to be stopped, but I'll only be thinking that for reasons of moral outrage.

True, I do have some "butt hurt". I hate how Gen Urobuchi loves to pull this "the villain was really the good guy all along, if you think otherwise it's just your limited perspective" trick. It's lazy storytelling that makes things look deep without actually saying anything meaningful.

Manga Kyubey might be more like what that user is saying. There, he make facial expressions, which he uses to act all cute, but when Homura calls him out, he gains a permanent slasher grin that only comes off when Madoka makes her wish. He looks almost like he's enjoying the suffering he's causing.

>But honestly I think that's a little more openly meta (or else a little more one-dimensional, depending on which direction you want to go) than Uro would shoot for.

>Gen Urobuchi not using one-dimensional and boring writing tricks
Ha! Oh, Konatanon, you crack me up.

I mean, at that point your argument is basically, "He's just evil because this series is garbage"?

In which case... OK?

Thank you that makes sense. So any idea what kind of Charms a demonblooded of Ligier would get? I think Gaunlet said you could ascend to be a god based on your parent post-jump? What would said demonblooded get from doing that?

Monsters Inc's technology can let you funnel it into tanks to basically power everything a modern city can be powered by. So electricity, gas, oil etc. They already use fear, although apparently laughter yields higher energy output.

There's a type of White Court vampire in Dresden Files that can literally feed off it too, and the capstone-boosted Noble Demon in Disgaea makes the racial weakness moot. And technically DF's magic system can be powered by any emotion, including despair.

FF8 and SCP have perks that improve your science depending on how inhumane it is. The Fleshmetal in Light of Terra is apparenty a joint effort by Khorne and Nurgle so theoretically, if you had some of Nurgle's blessings from Warhammer Fantasy and Alpha Biomancy you might be able to shape something from it.

Finally, Ebon Dragon Charms. Just. All of them. His First Excellency gives you a supernatural boost to doing pretty much anything that is powered by or induces despair.

has it. In theory, lorewise they're weaker than Exalts. Mechanically, having fucktons of Essence, Willpowwer and a Charm that lets them go full blitzkrieg makes them slippery blitzkrieging little bastards given preptime.

Not him, but this is the closest I can find on the wiki.

wiki.puella-magi.net/Guidebook#Production_Materials

Far as I can tell the main part user was talking about starts on the link marked Page 123, where Urobuchi's interviewed about each individual episode.

I mean, I feel roughly the same way about Naruto, Bleach and certain parts of the Fate franchise for different reasons but I've certainly never tried to argue those parts aren't canon.

Oh, no, I'm a different person. I don't care about this argument, I'm just calling the series (and by extension, everything Gen Urobuchi's written) garbage. He's a bad writer.

Well, Ligier's about crafting and terrifying majesty. So Excellencies for the Craft and Presence skills, naturally. Affinity Element Control: Fire, with an aesthetic change so that you're manipulating the green flame of Malfeas, seems plausible. Chrysallis of Preservation and Creation of Perfection so you could work with intangible materials in your crafting. Probably Regalia of Authority so you can manifest the divine right to rule of your father. Maybe Spice of Custodial Delectation so you could gain Essence from people crafting or respecting your authority within your presence.

As for what you'd become if you raised Essence over 3? It's not that great. You count as a unique species of First Circle Demon, and don't have citizenship. So even though your dad is the Green Sun himself, you're the lowest caste in the social order of Malfeas. You'll probably gain citizenship fairly quickly, but until you do living in Malfeas is going to suck.

Let's see ... Spirit Charms that have a lot of Green Fire visuals and hover around the Craft & Presence arena's, he is scarily fabulous and love to make shit. Other than that you could look at this guy: cause he's way ahead of me.

Keep going! I'm enjoying it as well. It's very motivating to see someone write so much about the first jump I made.

I kinda gathered, but just wanted the excuse to throw in two cents.
And, really, that's fair.

I mean, I don't agree, but if you think Urobuchi is a bad writer, it could naturally extend that you would think his characters are badly as well?
Whereas I like Madoka, so I think it's written well enough.
And, curving back a bit, the characters give their motivations, so I take those motivations on their own merits, for the information we get during the course of the series. I don't really try to fanwank it a whole lot. Publicly.

But if you don't like the series, that's fine. We all have different tastes, and sometimes we just don't hold a high opinion of things.
This is gonna sound weird and sappy, but I genuinely respect you for not wanting to argue for twenty minutes about a thing you hate. I hope you're having a good day.

I kind of figured Kyubeys 'perfectly rational logic' was bullshit when I heard about the plan to create all that energy by making the undefeatable witch, but would destroy humanity.

Which is really dumb. As in it breaks the cycle, so no more energy can be extracted from human teenage girls. Destroying something that continually extends the heat death of the universe over and over again for a one time payout. Also known as killing the Golden Goose.

Incubators are Inefficient Idiot Bastards. If they wanted to be Bastards, they could have been intelligent ones who kept the cycle going and only did something that broke the cycle when humanity was old and used up.

Also, use some that energy to terraform more planets and have a bunch of human farms that output more energy then the cost to set them up and extending the life of the universe.

If you are serious about saving the universe, you need to learn how to make magic girls and then kill all the Kyubeys. Not because they are Evil, but because they are _Dumb_

So I am trying to save all the Nasu jumps, and rename them to begin with Nasuverse so they are in the same place.

I thought we had a Grand Order jump? I cannot find it...

Doesn't he mention that there's other civilizations out there? Presumably if earth dies, he takes the energy (Presumably more than he expects to get out of Earth before it dies off), then goes and hangs out with another civilization and continues harvesting them.

That is, if his expected gain from Madoka is more than his expected gain from the rest of earth over the remainder of however long humanity's going to last (which it seems to be, seeing as he notes that she just filled his quote) and there's other races (which there seem to be, seeing as part of his excuse is "Wouldn't it suck if you went out there and the universe was empty?"), then losing a single planet but getting more energy out of it than you otherwise would have isn't really a problem.

I think that was just something someone on SB was making, and is not actually finished yet. It also wasn't that good, last I heard.

Ok so the Collector skill in the servant supplement can be bought at E rank and work our way up, right? D and up are just luck boost arent they?

Also, would some jumpers eventually be able to develop a reality marble? I mean, given the crap we pull it might only be matter of time. Iskander had God-tier charisma (fuck rankings Gil had A+ and was a dick) and was shonen grade bro with his army; Shiro & EMIYA are tricky but they had the origin 'sword' and iirc the non-standard magical affinity with swords, plus his own magecraft was so unorthodox (screwed) it might have qualified as something else besides the basics. Plus EMIYA pirating every NP he could.

It might be easier for HS's but magi /have/ managed...

Maybe an optimized crafter build may eventually spawn a giant lab-factory...

Well in the KR Neo heisei part 1 DLC there is the alchemist station that lets you use desire as a way to create things as the transformation device of one of the riders and other things that I don't remember, but with a bit of jumper thinkering you could find a way to be able to create things with despair

Kyubey states that he had a quota, and Madoka turning into a witch meets it. Therefore, we can conclude that in that case, mankind is no longer needed, that they are "old and busted". We can also conclude that other Incubators are on other worlds with their own quotas.

It's not in the WIP list in the new Jumpchain thread at SB, so I think it would count as unclaimed even there.

o-ok! Sorry I had to leave for a moment

Katsumi pressed a button on the cage. With a great flash, glowing bars trapped the man on the ground.

"PHEWIE!" She exhaled, slumping over. "That was too stressful."

Vash kneeled by Knives and pointed at it. "Is there a way to carry him in the cage? It looks heavy." He said.

"Yeah, no problem!" Katsumi snapped her fingers. The cage grew legs and stood up, Knives still inside.

"You two are awfully cooperative." I commented. "It's not a bad thing--I'm actually quite pleased that you two are on speaking terms now. What made this change?"

"Well...me and Vash chatted a lot about stuff. He said that the best thing to do when someone screws up is to change your habits so you don't do it again. That's why killing is wrong--it takes away the chances someone has to right their wrongs. And..I could actually get behind that." Said Katsumi. "Doesn't mean I have to forgive that asshole for making you and Vash suffer a lot though, Mom." She huffed and crossed her arms.

I smiled. Things had gone better than I expected. "Vash? Are you okay?" I asked. He hadn't really taken his eyes off Knives the entire time, his mouth in a line.

"I'm just wondering if I'm capable of helping my brother. I keep trying to think of ways to help rehabilitate him and they all end badly." He admitted.

I gazed at Knives's sleeping body. He looked shockingly defenseless. But his deeds had never left my mind. Perhaps at that moment I realized other people were like me. They had their vunerable spots and feelings.

This filled me with an...odd feeling. It was warm. No, no one had the right to take another person's life in most circumstances. Now, I understood why.

Still though, I'd give their victims the chance to get their revenge if needed. But I couldn't kill with my hands. Not anymore.

It is the difference between many revenue stream and many revenue streams.
Or like having a fruit tree, and instead of harvesting the fruit in the fruit bearing years, and then using it for firewood once its its fruit bearing years are behind it, you take a healthy and waste its potential for that one time payoff, because there is another tree over there.
Meeting your quota does not excuse all that potential energy you could have gained before that big payoff by waiting.

Or using some of the energy from the payoff to help put down the resulting witch so the cycle can keep generating positive energy, and there is the possibility of _another_ big payoff happening in the future.

Saving the universe is a Looooong Game. So choosing short term gain over bigger over time long term ones is stupid.

That's what the purple Core Medals are made of. They embody despair and apathy instead of desire. It made for an interesting twist for Eiji, that his final form was based on his depression and post-traumatic stress. Most Riders get their final forms through the power of friendship or determination or other positive emotions, Eiji's was through his inability to have those things.

Blade was doing it but it never came together and he dropped it.

In Kyubey's defense (and I hate saying that, because I'm in the camp of him being a terrible monster), if they reinvested the energy harvested from Earth into terraforming many other planets into life-bearing worlds that could themselves support cycles of energy harvesting, then it could be a good idea. Like short-selling a stock and taking that money to invest in lots of other properties, you'll get a net long-term profit.

Pretty much every Jumper who's at or past the centuries age range, has good magical power, and didn't stack "you're always you/you're always human" type perks in their first few jumps should manifest a Reality Marble the moment they git gud with Nasuverse magic desu simply because they'll already meet the main and most difficult requirement for it.

Although you'll want to look at Lair of the Beast King, Overload, or Nevermore for examples at that point, since UBW is the result of its user being legitimately damaged (or at least artificially altered) psychologically while Ionioi Hetairoi stems both from Iskander's legend and the shared will of his army rather than being "natural" RMs.

That only holds if the payoff from Madoka is less than the payoff that the planet would have produced before dying. That is, if "wasting the potential" didn't result in you getting twice the apples and wood than you would have if you'd let the tree grow normally. And that's almost certainly not true, because Homura's time-hopping keeps linking other people's karmic destiny to Madoka. I can't remember exactly, but I'm pretty sure that he explicitly mentioned it was the entire timeline's Karmic potential for each loop.

So just killing Madoka gets him 2 trees worth, while not killing Madoka gets him 1 trees worth.

Personally? I'd got with 2 trees, and, well, sucks for those various insects living on it's leaves.

You'd think he'd be more interested in harvesting Homura, though. Reverse-engineer what she's doing, use it to make world ender-class witches at will. Just farm those instead of having to wait for them to naturally occur in a given populace.

Farm raised witches are never as good for you. Sure, you get more off of 'em, 'cause they're fatter, but they don't taste as nice and like said they're super unhealthy.

You're better off hunting a wild witch.

But they're so gamey!

Wouldn't work. Madoka was already strong enough to score a mutual kill with Walpurgisnacht on the first loop, the latter of whom was centuries old and was basically a living natural disaster (she tore the city apart in what seemed like minutes). Then, Homura wished that she could save Madoka, thus forcing her into the spotlight, so to speak. With each loop, her role in destiny grew greater and greater, her karma adding up to the point where the final loop allowed her to become a multiversial goddess. There are too many factors that rely on things Kyubey can't understand for him to replicate the scenario. Besides, he only ever learns about Homura right before the end of the loop.

Pffft. That's part of the appeal, and if you prepare them right and hunt them when they're in season, but not "in season," then it's not as bad as you've heard.

>NO! Keep going! I'm enjoying it!
>Keep going! I'm enjoying it as well

>o-ok! Sorry I had to leave for a moment

s' cool.

Wish I had the patience to write this all out to the level you are.

I fiind a good cherry sauce helps cut that. Though you need to make sure they're fresh cherries. Old cherries don't help anything.

You are technically correctwhich is the best kind, but I dropped it because Val asked for the claim.

How dangerous are the batman (dark knight?) and sherlock (great detective?) jumps?

Depends. Are you a big guy?

Neither of them has capeshit, magic, clarketech, or shounen bullshit.

Just don't be a dumbass and you'll do okay. Also, probably should avoid the drawbacks.

Kyubey's knowledge is reset same as everyone else's at the start of each loop. In many timelines he just doesn't figure out that this is caused by Homura, and is rightly more interested in the big obvious energy source, who just so happens to be protected by an annoying emo girl.

And if the whole experiment with the Law of Cycles in Rebellion is any indication, his research isn't instant. Not to mention, in the wraith timeline, he just doesn't know that Homura's power can do that, because he doesn't know about Madoka.

Maybe there were some timelines where he did figure it out, and even some timelines where he thought that would be a great idea. But he'd always lose that idea when Homura went back in time again.

Mortal level. No super powers or super tech (especially in sherlock) and the major danger zones are relegated to certain, avoidable locations.

Worst girl isn't worth anything.

But batman has superman, yeah? Or is it just the guys in the movies?

>I think that was just something someone on SB was making
I don't really check out that thread. It would have been something I saw here, but I did not find it on a 4plebs *Order pdf search...

...

Not in TDK. TDK covers the Nolan movies.

I think he figures it out once or twice on screen, but the first time, Homura time-travels immediately (And she'd basically admitted it at that point, he was all "Welp, looks like there's a witch that'll eat the planet in a week! Sucks for you!" and she went, "Nah. I'm outta here."), and the second is the final runthrough.

See

It'd probably be a better idea to use HSDW and the Territory Creation skill to create a world "on par" with a Reality Marble. That way, it doesn't stay with you forever and you can make different sorts for different occassions.

By the way, this got derailed a few threads back so-does anyone have any idea what an EX rank Anti-Thaumaturgy/Anti-Self Noble Phantasm in the form of special magic circuits could do?

I'm kind of stumped, other than the vague idea they could be made of True Ether.

Oh my GOD captcha on mobile is HELL, I had to retype this

"Vash? Are you okay?" I asked. Vash was gazing at Knives's body. His mouth a flat line. "I'm trying to think of ways to help him out...but most scenarios I think of don't end well." He admitted.

"Can't promise you results. But I'm a Jumper. I'm sure I can think of something." I replied, with a bright grin.

Vash smiled back

"WELP! Gotta hit the hay! Big day tomorrow walking to the nearest city!" He said, getting up and walking with his usual cartoonish swagger back to camp.

Knives was not entirely happy at his circumstances. I had Vash keep him on constant survellience. I didn't have time to devote to Knives constantly even if I checked up on him.

I had a planet to terraform. By the end of the ten years, Gunsmoke was green enough for humanity to no longer heavily rely on the plants. Thanks to my infinite water machines. Which meant rhat the plants could be used for their original purpose--to help terraform humanity's new home.

Wolfwood returned to his orphanage, Millie and Meryl returned to the insurance company--(Meryl was RELIEVED to wash her hands of Vash the Stampede). Millie and Wolfwood would send each other letters and chat on the phone.

Me and Vash got married in our third year. Wolfwood was our pastor, of course.

Overall? I was pretty darn proud of myself.

Does anybody remember where the perk that let you cast magic anywhere in a short distance from you rather that directly from your person was? I think I remember it existing but cannot remember what jump its from.

>Also, probably should avoid the drawbacks
Looks at drawbacks...
You can take drawbacks, just not the sealed powers ones if you are worried. Ditto League of Shadows if you are an early jumper.

Something I think would be fun to do is take the +600 "Make Gotham the most crime free city in the world" and do it in a completely unintended way, like Invading the USA and taking Gotham by Conquest, just so you can rule Gotham and repeal the majority of Laws, so all that robbing, murdering, and killing is not actually illegal.

Or create so many clones of yourself the population doubles and you are literally looking over everyone's shoulder.
"Hello There Citizen! Are You Playing Well With Others?"

>Not suggesting that you create so much crime in the rest of the world that Gotham is safe by comparison

>Nika and Vash got married on their third year
D'aww. That's cute. Also makes that scene where Vash shot Knives to get him off of you even better.