Tell me Veeky Forums, what do you think of Chaos Dwarfs?

Daemons?

Beastmen are the counterpart of the Empire while Brettonia is its own counterpart.

That's a ganon-duergar and you know it

Beastmen are the opposite to the Empire, not its evil counterpart.

A cool idea that wasn't given enough love before Fantasy died.

Lost and the Damned is in the same boat.

>tfw you thought of the game before the army
>tfw you miss Johnny

It's a Daemon Prince

>7 pointed star

NURGLE

Unlike Brets they still exist in the setting. They just aren't getting any attention. All i wanted to do was learn more about Hashut.

>Chaos
>social-darwinism
Chaos is fucking chaotic. That's it.
Not some weird stuff from people actually thinking "survival of the fittest" meant "the strongest".

I've only learned about them very recently, but when I did devoured every piece of info on them the Internet could give me. I think they're fucking cool, to be honest, I wish they had stuck around. Babylonin hatedwarves with boners for fire, bull monsters and great beards.

I wonder if there was some Chaos Dwarf sorceror out there who built a tower out of the solidified bodies of his former rivals. Seems like some bullshit they'd do.

Chaos really isn't social darwinism as it is purely "might makes right" in that in the absence of law, that's all that really matters.

They're still existent & I'm hoping for TW:WH.

I'm currently working on an army of them. From what I've gathered they are a kingdom of dwarves that stopped worshipping the regular dwarf gods and embraced Hashut, a God of darkness, from there they started building infernal war machines and offering their services to chaos lords. I wonder if I can find the forgeworld book with them in it for cheap

It does, however, pretty strongly associate individual strength (in whatever form) with survival

They pretty neat. It's nice to see Dwarves do what they do a little different.

They are the true dwarfs and the only ones to remain loyal to the line of succession. The betrayal of the Ancestor God of Hashut was unforgiveable.

Evil dwarves are criminally underutilized concept.

I fucking love Chaos Dwarfs, they feel like Chaos done right because they feel like they are actually sinister and shit

We'll they were taken over by forgeworld after gw stopped making minis for them and then they were given the forgeworld treatment. They aren't evil for evils sake like other chaos entities

Shamefully unrepresented and underappreciated

Chaos dwarves are amazing. They're a well known fantasy race that hasn't been overused into blandness.
What are some good games that include chaos dwarves? What about reading material?

I know it's a video game, but did you ever check out the Warlords Battlecry series? It has Dark Dwarfs, which aare pretty great.

also like a bazilion other races
etheria.wikia.com/wiki/Races

>Chaos really isn't social darwinism as it is purely "might makes right" in that in the absence of law, that's all that really matters.

Yea but Warhammer Chaos is specifically a "might makes right" ideology, not even Tzeentch randomly makes non-accomplished retards Demon Princes

Amazing. Literally one race that isn't a generic 3e meme, and it's a mashup of Tyrranids and that people-harvesting creature stolen from Lego Robot comics

I always liked my evil dwarfs, but I imagine them more like a maggot death cult than something about rage or might. They were like maggots in the flesh of Ymir after all.

Total War Warhammer has Hellcannons run by a crew of Chaos Dorfs.

I think they need to hurry the fuck up and get put into Total War Warhammer.

Seriously, how did GW fuck up so bad? That have would have brought in a shitload of new players. Part of the reason 40k got so big is the larger media platform it occupies

Oh fuck yourself

Just because it isn't a quirky and unique race of vegetable people who communicate entirely by screaming doesn't mean it's a bad race.

Mesopotamian Dwarfs are so much better than Viking dwarfs it's unreal

I hope you are happy. Now I have to go play dwarf fortress.

...

It's worth it.

I want a faction, not a unit

Will BTP paint them?

...

Wanna play Battlecry with me a-user?

How can they call themselves chaotic when they have such a well oiled industrial machine? That shit takes a lot of logistics and foresight.

It means "the most fitting into the current environment."
Darwin wrote about whole species, not individuals.
Even if the individuals of one species would outright stomp the individuals of another that does not mean the former will not go extinct if they fail to adapt. An example would be the dinosaurs and the early mamals.

They side with Chaos but themselves are much more industrial. They do plenty of trade too.

I guess that's what I like about em. They are an easily forgotten about faction that is still a very real threat, as they slowly creep towards power and expand their influence. Plus I love any kind of industrial shit, that plus Mesopatomian themes and being actually confident and goal oriented rather than "HURR KILL ALL STUFF" makes them AWESOME villains

>they made the Black Orcs
>they're the reason the Orcs know metalwork & shit beyond Savage Orcs
>they made much of the Chaos Armor which Warriors of Chaos wear

I want GW to acknowledge them in AoS so fucking bad, like maybe mention a legion of them attacking a town or something

They're technically still active & some even joined the FyreSlayers.

Sauce on joining fyreslayers?

Can't seem to find the official source. There's some fan theories due to the magic-using ones. There's even a comment on the beards not being connected to a stache.

Opinions on Mantic Chaos Dwarves? Thinking about grabbing up some for KoW and Age of Sigmar. They're cost effective compared to Forge World, but I'm unsure of the quality--I haven't seen any in person.

Honestly, every single alternative Chaos dwarf offering just pales in comparison to FW's models. They fucking nailed it and I have yet to see an alternative that looks even half as good

Keep in mind that their half breeds are not the same size as their FW equivalent. They are made to the size of the old Chaos Dwarves. The regular troops are decent, though they don't match the aesthetic entirely. They are hard plastic rather than restic or some shit. My personal favorite alternatives though are the Russian Alternative ones. They do the old style Chaos Dwarfs well, hats and everything.

If you don't care about the hats general aesthetic they had when they were a mainline army, then just get the FW ones. You can get Chinacast if you want to save money.

Stealing that. There aren't enough dwarf mages either so this is perfect.

Ah. Not a huge fan of the Forge World Chaos Dwarf infantry aesthetics, but I'll definitely be looking into those Russian Alternatives. Also do you think it would look too jarring to mix Mantic with Russian Alternatives?

Thanks.

I don't think that they would be too jarring next to each other. As long as one unit type is kept consistent it should be fine.

If you plan on doing hobgoblins I would recommend getting some of the LotR goblins and painting them green. No one sadly actually makes rank and file hobgoblin figures for Chaos Dwarves, including Forgeworld. In Kings of War you have slave Orcs instead so you should be good there.

Will Grimnir look like pic related?

FW apparently wants to do something with them.

>responding hours later
Never played it online and considering how incredible unbalanced this game is I probably never will. Talked to someone that did, everyone expects you to have a level 50 assassin that zips around the battlefield with lightning speed.

Have you not seen the russian alternative minis? They are very similar to FW in quality and very cheap.

Love them.

If anyone has questions about Chaos Dwarfs just ask, and ill do my best to answer them.

Iv been studying them, so I know allot of shit about them, much of which is not found on the net, well it might be but its not common(Chaos Dwarfs online).

Past that to the Chaos comments.

The Chaos Dwarfs are in fact the Dawi Zharr, which means Dwarfs of fire(or the fire plain). There was nothing truly Chaos about them till years latter, when they were forced to align with Chaos to survive through trade, as their cousins refused to knowledge them, and thus froze all trade with them.

A neat fact about them, they are, to the best of my knowledge, the only Warhammer Fantasy race to have fought a full on war with the Nehekhara Empire before they became Tomb Kings.

who makes them?

...

>There was nothing truly Chaos about them till years latter
Isn't their god a banned Khorne demon prince?

>when they were forced to align with Chaos to survive through trade
How? They country is big as fuck and they have countless slaves, how was trade needed?

>they are, to the best of my knowledge, the only Warhammer Fantasy race to have fought a full on war with the Nehekhara Empire before they became Tomb Kings
What started the war? Where I can read about it?

The company is called "the Russian alternative". They make a range of fantasy resin and metal miniature and will be making plastic minis in the coming year(s).

If they are all about fire worship, shouldn't they be more based on Persians than Babylonians?

ah - its all fantasy stuff

>Isn't their god a banned Khorne demon prince?
No, and yes. let me explain.

There was a bit of fluff(unpublished) In which a mighty greater daemon challenged Khorne to a dual, and as one might expect, Khorne won, and the entire Warp went after the failure, he managed to escape to the Dark Lands, but when he was held up in, what can only be described as a canyon, the Chaos daemons bounded him to it.

Now, while this was unpublished, the story was officially rewrote latter, but this time its just a greater daemon(I think of Khorne) and a mighty ogre tyrant battles for nights, till the ogre eventually wins, and the tyrant binds said daemon into the ground.

Which the Chaos Dwarfs mine, because fuck you. (Daemon Stump is what its called).

So the answer is officially no, but at one time, it WAS going to be the official background for Hashut.

>How? They country is big as fuck and they have countless slaves, how was trade needed?
Look at it this way, would you say that colonial America need not trade with the world as North America is big as fuck?

The Chaos Dwarfs at the time might have controlled like 5% of the Dark Lands, today its around 30%, and besides, they need slaves, and different kinds of slaves, so only greenskins will not due, some of the Chaos Dwarfs artificers make special equipment that requires stuff, like Elf skin, and human blood. So a variety of races are required, thus trade was needed.

There was, also at one time, some rare bluish gem/stone that was not found in the Dark Lands but is plentiful in the North. So there are SOME things the Chaos Dwarfs can not easily get, but yes much of the wants of Dwarfs is supplied by the Dark Lands, oh and as a side note, they burn through slaves at a extermly fast rate(The eat slaves, and wear their skin as clothes, besides the normal sacrificing them to Hashut, and working them to death).

Thus trade is very important.

>What started the war? Where I can read about it?
"Armour of Bazherak The Crule
(Magic Armour)
Legend has it that Bazherk was an infamous Castellan-commander of the tower of Gorgoth, during the wars against the Great Empire of Nehekhara at its height, long before Nagash doomed its people. A General and slave-lord without peer, he threatened the dominance of the Chaos Dwarfs Sorcerers and he had the armour fashioned in secret to shield him from his rivals. It failed him however when his army was cut off by a vast Orc horde in the tidal flats on the edge of the Bitter Sea, where he drowned under its weight after being driven into the surf, The armor was latter recovered in plunder from the Orcs, and repaired, and stands as a testament to arrogant warriors of the price of hubris."

5 Slaves that it was the Sorcerers who sent in the Orks.

>If they are all about fire worship, shouldn't they be more based on Persians than Babylonians?

Ok, here is the thing. Back in the 1980's they were TRUE Chaos Dwarfs, and mostly worshiped Khorne.

In the Late 80's going into the early 90's the American Branch of GW had this idea to make them a fully fledged army, and thus we would, in a few years, get all the Neo-Chaos Dwarfs in one book, the " White Dwarf: Presents Chaos Dwarfs.

This group of Chaos Dwarfs, the Dawi Zharr, got a total face lift to become their own faction/race, and their main point, outside of being Evil Dwarfs, was slavery, something that while the Persian Empire did, its religion (Zoroastrian) heavily frowned upon. Where as Babylon did not have any such moral ground to stop slavery.

As a side not before I go on, I will also say that as a Christian Babylon is always shown as being evil, rather it truly was, is as any Empire up for Debate, but since it was the Babylonians who took the Jews out of their homeland, and the Persians who allowed them back, Babylon is always used as a reference for evil, and again we are talking about England 1980's-

>Back in the 1980's they were TRUE Chaos Dwarfs, and mostly worshiped Khorne
But those were Norse Chaos Dwars, also called Black Dwarfs. They still exist, but GW stopped writting about them.

Babylon makes more sense as insperation for the Chaos Dwarfs, but yes you are correct, Persia is more akin to Fire worship.

Cont-
The Chaos Dwarfs do not worship fire, as much as, with anything, they enslave it.

Think of the Wood Elves, know how they have wonderful sprits/spirits of the forest that fight with them, well the Chaos Dwarfs have this too, but the fire spirits, fire daemons, are enslaves.

One of the things the Chaos Dwarfs like to do is to use minor daemons(fire daemons found in the Dark Lands), and use them as (I kid you not) ammo. This is used in the Fire Glaves, but is mastered in their shotguns(Blunderbuss).

This special shotgun they use is called a Hailshot Blunderbuss, when it shoots, the "pellets" are bounded with these minor fire spirits, which in their anger, rage, and hate seek out flesh to scorch. So when a unit of Chaos Dwarfs fire the Hailshot Blunderbuss, they are not so much shooting bullets, as much as screaming fire daemons who (while they last), try to edge into the armor to find flesh so they can "eat" it away.

Thus again, slavery, and not worship/alliance.

Yes and no. There was a split off, where the more tech savy became the Chaos Dwarfs, the once Chaos Dwarf Rocket launcher, and Bazooka, would be remade into the Death Rocket, and to a lesser extent the Earth Shaker.

The rest was streamlined into the Dwarfs, the Norse Dwarfs got a short print, and everything else was sadly, just trashed.

However, not all from that time was forgotten, it comes, well came up once in a while, such as the Dawi Zharr creating the juggernauts of Khorne, for well Khorne. He liked the idea so much that he began to make his own, the originals were made by the Chaos Dwarfs from their own Taurus, which is surprising, as that animal is sacred to them, second only to the Lammasu.

Source?

Turtles goddamn seaturtles

Not user, and while I too would like a source, I can say that they did make the new model for the Chaos Dwarfs, which is a Age of Sigmar unit, and not a carry over.
Shar'tor the Executioner
>forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Shartor-the-Executioner-FW

Besides that, in the past, Forge World was more open, and commented off the records that they loved doing the Chaos Dwarfs, and want to do more, but it all mattered on sales.

They then went to say that the Chaos Dwarfs sold out much better then they thought, and...Then we got Horus Heresy, with a leaked/email about how they had to suspend all Warhammer Fantasy production.

So they want to do more, but till Games Workshops takes the Fantasy/AoS cage off their balls, they have to keep making HH stuff.

Source to that is from emails people shared, as well as game days(mostly found on DAKA DAKA, and Chaos Dwarfs Online)

That's an orc.

why does the bunderbluss have a german name? is it how the empire cals it?

As far as I know, thats just the common name used in the English language, I have seen the word used for all games that predate the 20th century. The Shotgun we have today is the descendant of the Blunderbuss.

So yeah, I would assume the name is used for the Empire, as well as another faction that has them.

Side note, the Chaos Dwarfs LOVE their Shotguns(Blunderbuss), and one of the reason for this is their slave problem(slavery revolts, and taking slaves).

While many would jump to the classical redneck, or hillbilly when thinking of one, the way the Chaos Dwarfs use theirs is more akin to the South Afrikaans, who created the Armsel Striker, more commonly known as the Street Sweeper.

A automatic shotgun that will, as the name says, clear a street if need be.

The Chaos Dwarfs use their just as the South Afrikkians intended theirs for, so when a group of slaves, mostly composed of Greenskins get out of hand, the Chaos Dwarfs will leave the Hobgoblin slavers there to try and get the slaves back in order, while the Chaos Dwarfs just line up and fire. Who cares if Hobgoblins die in the mass volley, there are always more eager to take the place of those who "failed".

The Chaos Dwarfs also have repeating rifles, so its not much of a stretch to think they would have repeating shotguns(blunderbuss) as well.

It's a Daemon.

They must have bit hats.

Do you have anymore comparison shots of their Chaos Dwarfs?

I bought a load of their Hobgoblins but scale didn't matter for them since GW haven't made an alternative in year.

What the hell? Skaven are the very clear counterpart to the lizardmen.

How so?

I think of them more of a anti-dorf.

Chaos Dorfs are antidorfs. Also orcs.

So how will TW:WH Chaos Dwarfs be? Canonically they have more slaves & Hobgoblins than Dwarfs & they make the best of Chaos equipment unless granted by Chaos gods themselves.

Yeah, I can see their early game units aside from their lord being slaves, and higher tier being beasts, elementals, and actual Chaos Dwarf units.

Chaos dorfs are just different dorfs.
Orks are anti civilization.

Yet Skaven:
Breed fast
Develop and use new stuff all the time, not caring about reliability.
Betray each other whenever they can get away with it. Break oaths constantly.
Unless warpstone is involved, rather short lived.

Dorfs:
Breed slow.
Tend to use new stuff slowly, caring much about reliability.
Oaths are holy. Breaking them is the worst thing anyone could do.
Very long lived.

High Elves:
Breed slow
Barely develop new stuff
Reliable guys
Very very long lived

Lizardmen:
Breeding places poisoned thus slow breeding
Doesn't develop anything new
Extremely loyal to their leaders
Extremely long lived

And also canonically shown to be the archenemy of the Skaven in their armybook.

And they're both furries.

>Lizardmen are furries
>so are Skaven
>Beastmen too

Which race causes the lizardmen to leave Fantasy world to AoS? Skaven. Which race was the first race to actually cause the lizardmen their first major loss in Lustria? Skaven. Which race has the Dwarves been fighting with since the dawn of time, and has a shit ton of grudges against? Greenskins. The only named conlfict of a big scale between Dwarves and Skaven is Karak Eight Peaks really, and that is shared with the greenskins. Also, Empires arch enemy is Vamp Counts. Same ideals, similar tactics if you ignore guns, cept undead.

>Extremely loyal to their leaders
More than that, the entire race is following a single plan for the world that they insist will be made into existence. Its a far more important idea than an oath to them, its the meaning of life.