Is it just me or is 40k lore getting shitty while at the same time the models get cooler...

they fucked up the sizes though
a skitarii vanguard looks tiny compared to a cadian shock trooper

It's great on many levels

Best modern releases

God Tier

>Skritali
>Gene Stealer cults

Okay Tier

>Death Watch

Good models but shit lore tier

Tempestus Scions

Are you talking about Carnac or the namefag in the RPG general who shits on anyone who uses head cannon in their games and or doesnt listen to 40k lore?

The latter, Carnac is his own thing.

40k used to be written by people who knew when to not take shit too seriously, and then over time started being written by the stupid edgelord 13 year olds that used to like their lore that took it way too seriously and then ramped it to 11 while expressing army biases. That's what happens when you're a series created in the 80s that changes hands for fluff material.

Also this.

>using head canon in games
Something something Red Corsairs.

Shaso is the namefag who said that if you don't listen to the latest lore and choose to use older lore, then your game doesn't take place in the 40k setting at all.
He's legitimately autistic if he actually believes that.

>Good models but shit lore tier

This the Scion hate is only for the Taurox

Yup ,this.
If anything the issue is that people who WERE educated in writing and knew all about the fluff came in an dtried to apply some structure and real grounding to it instead of just talking it for what it was, and in doing so they ended up destroying the vast all inclusiveness of it.

Shouldnt that be a karmic trade off?

Models suddenly look cooler but the lore takes a dive

>tripfag
>Taufag
>not autistic

You literally have twice the amount of concrete evidence you need to show he's autistic. That's like saying some dude has pitch black skin and was caught with a stolen TV and a bucket of fried chicken and you weren't sure if he's black or not.

Faustian bargain but I can't resist

Its the only cancer the RPG general has to deal atleast that place doesnt act like the "Warhammer 40k take the bait general"

I'm so angry this Terminator has so much DW and Salamander shit on him. I want that awesome flamer with fuel backpack and gas mask helmet for my generic chapter.

>"Warhammer 40k take the bait general"

Haha holy shit this is so apt. It makes for pretty funny reads though when you're not interested in whatever argument is currently going on.

Man, I applied for his Deathwatch campaign. I dodged the bullet it seems. I was one of few people who didn't make librarian

I love 40k but I cant post in that general for the life of me

I barely even care about the current fluff. All I care about is MY GUYS.

It's glorious, they're all halfway insane after living through technicolor nightmare after technicolor nightmare. I've got a meltagun guy who specializes in taking down daemon engines, and has been the soul survivor of his squad on no fewer than 6 times. I've got a Lord Commissar who dueled a Solitaire to a draw, and has never once had to shoot any of his own men. I've got an Inquisitor with wisecracking Guardsmen bodyguards, so chosen after the three of them took down a Riptide.

Keep it up

Thats how you play 40k

40k should just have the craziest models made first and then have fluff written after but completely detached from faction themes so we don't get shit like Marine in Marine armor ala dreadknights or centurions.

And they should add more time/dimension shenanigans with the Ordo Chronos and other xenos/chaos factions within the fluff to suggest there are like infinite different 40k universes so all the various interpretations of 40k are real AND so GW and sister companies can come up with any model they can think of and play them against each other.

>CRAZY

Dante pls

No, I will embrace the madness.
As should you.

To be honest, I don't know how else to play 40k. I've always played the game narrative first, everything I have has a back story. I have probably hundreds of pages of fluff written out for them, and at least two dozen of them have character sheets for Only War or Dark Heresy. I just don't get the appeal of 40k if not for the story. I get that assholes who play Tau/Eldar/Necron combined cheese lists like to win, but what's the point if you can't picture your guys celebrating after? But I digress.

>talking shit about Klovis
I hope not

>“We just plundered everything. Obviously Tolkien was a big influence, and in terms of 40K there’s a lot of Frank Herbert’s Dune in there. If you’ve read Dune, every chapter starts with a bit of an excerpt, and I rather enjoyed that, so I just copied the idea by putting little bits of pseudo fiction in.”

>Other influences included the works of Robert Heinlein and H.P. Lovecraft, but it was a much older source – the 17th century poet John Milton – who would provide the inspiration for the game’s greatest conflict.

>In a reimagining of the epic poem Paradise Lost, which deals with an attempt to overthrow God by a faction of rebel angels, Warhammer 40,000 featured a cataclysmic schism within the forces of the Empire of Mankind. In an event known as the Horus Heresy, chapters of Space Marines – genetically engineered, fanatically religious super-soldiers – turned against their Emperor after falling prey to the influence of the Chaos Gods, the supreme antagonists of this dark future setting.

>“Bryan’s idea of Chaos was very much derived from [science fiction and fantasy author] Michael Moorcock,” he said.

>“But I’d always had this sense of Chaos existing as described in Paradise Lost.

>“Unless you’ve read Paradise Lost you don’t get it. The whole Horus Heresy is just a parody of the fall of Lucifer as described by Milton.”

>“The fact that the Space Marines were lauded as heroes within Games Workshop always amused me, because they’re brutal, but they’re also completely self-deceiving.

>“I was the head of the creative department, and they weren’t doing anything creative any more,” he said.

cardboardsandwich.com/features/blood-dice-and-darkness-how-warhammer-defined-gaming-for-a-generation/

>>“The fact that the Space Marines were lauded as heroes within Games Workshop always amused me, because they’re brutal, but they’re also completely self-deceiving.

The current crop of writers don't want to admit this. They want a Nobledark setting, which is frankly boring. It's like if Judge Dredd became Community Support Officer Dredd, a nice flexible guy who applied the spirit of the law rather than the letter and believed that community relations were the heart of good law enforcement.

I like old-school grimdark 40k because it's fun. The crazy shit just makes me smile.

I really like Forgeworld's take on bigger-picture stuff. Things like Taros read like an actual war report with proper, in-depth descriptions and analysis. However, thinks like Kauyon/Mont'ka devolved into a very linear, hero-driven story - almost fan-fiction.

Not just you a lot of the new lore turns people off

But the models pull me back in

I think there is a difference between being serious about/respectful of the setting and making the setting itself be serious. This is a distinction that I think has been lost.

To me there are three periods of 40k writing, and they're inexact and bleed into each-other. Marble cake not layer cake.

Phase 1: Rogue Trader. Wacky shit, some of which was good, a lot of which was not. The old 90/10 rule, but also a lot of very "chuck it all at the wall" which is rarely a good formula. Very little was serious.

Phase 2: 2E/3E/4E when 40k starts having writers take it seriously, this creates a fully fleshed out lived-in universe that still has a lot of the over-the-top insanity of Phase 1. Games like Inquisitor and the Eisenhorn trilogy are two of the best examples of this. This is the good shit.

Phase 3: Writing that takes itself seriously and tries to make the setting serious. This is when grim darkness becomes grimdarkness then grimderpness. Add to this unskilled writers who grew up reading Phase 1 and 2 but lack the skills and grounding to pull off Phase 2. Plus army bias for writers and newest model best modelism.

What I liked about the FFG games was that they approached or achieved Phase 2 in the midst of the Kerby years which was deeply Phase 3.

And 2000AD is a great source to steal from.

>The shield is actually super shit, but no Eldar want to break it.

So looking at this, there are six different things you gotta be familiar with to even begin to understand the approach for writing it.

Again, OP, I think it's people attempting to understand wh40k as a setting to write more wh40k, rather than understanding how wh40k was written, and what it draws on, to write more 40k.

This. You want further examples of the same phenomenon, look at Star Wars/Trek, Alien, Predator, Terminator, Robocop etc etc

>The current crop of writers don't want to admit this.
>The current crop of writers

The Gathering Storm is just something currently happening within the setting, 40k hasn't suddenly become a story. This story and setting shit and people thinking you have to be one or the other and setting has to be stagnant to remain a setting is one of the worst damn things to come out of the End Times.

That's because the older Guard models need to be downsized.

While it's interesting to hear Priestly's take on things, it always comes off like he still has a massive chip on his shoulder.

For example what he says about Space Marines comes off as if he doesn't want there to exist multiple opinions of them. You have to accept that they living weapons and that is final.

That difference likely exists due to production time and the size of the product itself. Off the top of my head, FW books usually push 200+ pages, are much bigger, are more expensive, and can be delayed for as long as they see fit. Good chance as well that the people working on the books are only working on that book at the time. In contrast I can see the GW Design Studio having to work within a certain number of pages and a set deadline, all the while the author or authors are also working on other projects.

Even after reading some Rogue Trader and earlier era stuff I don't get this idea that they somehow didn't take themselves as seriously. Not a whole lot reads as if it's off the wall or radically different from the current 40k, there was just room to explain things in depth. Can't help but think this may be rose tinted glasses. Army bias as well is not a new thing.

>t. Blood Raven

>The more people that work on something, the worse it gets.
Not true. There certainly are examples of media that's gone down the drain because a group of execs decided that they knew better than the creators, but there's at least as many examples of the supposed "creator" being a complete hack that's constantly saved by a team of actually skilled editors.

I really don't understand it either new lore turns me off while the models keep pulling me in

Having more people involved is harder, but not necessarily bad.
Proper communication and making sure all people invoved have the same understanding of the goal and what they do for it is difficult, but is good.

When one person thinks the setting is A, and another person thinks it's a, and a third thinks it's @, things start to come apart at the seams. Unity of design and intent are very important.

This is how the Abrahamic Workshop always works.

>make good setting and models
>"shit everyone has the army they want we're losing sales now what"
>completely shit all over franchise lore (end times, age of sigmar, fall of cadia)
>ruin the world and start it again either in a new galaxy or some other bullshit
>hahadrinkingyourtearsgoyim.jpg
>make NEW army sets with NEW overpriced models
>further prohibit old armies from being used in official events
>force everyone to buy the new models and make a profit all at the expense of anyone who remotely gave a shit about lore
>???
>profit

>Halo
>Mass Effect (which was only good for ONE FUCKING GAME)
>40K
>Thief
>Deus Ex
>Fallout
>Dune (although the original author threw out some bad shit too)
Why do people keep hijacking settings I like and shitting all over them due to not grasping basic tenets of it?

>What I liked about the FFG games was that they approached or achieved Phase 2 in the midst of the Kerby years which was deeply Phase 3

Kirby was there since the 2nd edition at least.

Money.

Mass Effect wasn't good to start with.

A long and established cycle of... one (1) datapoint.

No its not you, the miniatures overall are getting ever more technically excellent (even if the aesthetic is moving away from one I like) but the fluff is written by idiots and for idiots.

Theres just no subtlety any more, or humour, its all catering to 12 year olds by 12 year olds. It has more in common with Marvel than 2000AD now.

Mass effect was semi-serious 60s scifi radiodrama for one game, and it was great.

Doing the Emperors work user

With a number of exceptions you could count on one hand, everything released past this has been complete garbage. 4th Edition Chaos crashed Chaos Fluff into a wall it never recovered from. And I'm not even talking about muh legions and muh chaos undivided, I'm talking about tone and quality.
3rd Edition was the Post-Rogue Trader golden age, 4th edition tried to hold the torch and then everything went to shit.

>Even after reading some Rogue Trader and earlier era stuff I don't get this idea that they somehow didn't take themselves as seriously. Not a whole lot reads as if it's off the wall or radically different from the current 40k, there was just room to explain things in depth.
There's a lot more obvious injokes/references in RT (40k still has them, but not quite the same level as having the example inquisitor named Obiwan Sherlock-Closou, or having The Doctor show up in the random plothook table), but overall I feel it's very similar to Judge Dredd in that things are treated completely serious in-setting, regardless of whether they exist because the writer thought it was a funny joke or if they were written for drama.

Find the balance. I was sucked back in by Skitarii, so I run a Kill Team of them. I don't think I'll be getting anymore models for a while, though; some Peltasts, Vanguard, Infiltrators, and a Dragoon are about as far as I'm willing to go because the game doesn't get much larger.

How? It preached synthetic life bs at me constantly, the governing body of the galaxy is retarded and the aliens (and tech) are bullshit. Roleplay in this awful world is hampered by a dialogue system that makes the council look like MENSA. Combat, IE most of the game, is infuriating not because it's hard but because the guns are worse than modern counterparts unless you put tons of points into them.

A lot of things are also just flat out jokes. Most of the names are. Not even references, just straight up "Take the name, point at it and laugh" and the other half of names are just lifted wholly from things that sounded cool and somewhat topical.
It took itself less seriously insofar that it was a hodgepodge mishmash of "What the fuck, throw it in." Anything Games Workshop produced at the time, which was mostly figures for D&D and WHFB, needed to go in there, for example.

>It preached synthetic life bs at me constantly,
Are we talking about #1?

>the governing body of the galaxy is retarded
As is any entity that doesn't listen to a PC in an crpg.

>and the aliens (and tech) are bullshit.
This isn't fucking Isaac Clarke. It never attempted to be. The setting technological breaks are specific, internally consistent, and aren't waved like a magic wand at anything inconvenient that requires explanation.

>Roleplay in this awful world is hampered by a dialogue system that makes the council look like MENSA.
I'm sorry it's a video game, user.

>Combat, IE most of the game, is infuriating not because it's hard but because the guns are worse than modern counterparts unless you put tons of points into them.
And I'm sorry it's not CoD. I think I begin to understand your issues.

Even earlier.

>Salvation teams reclaim fallen god-machines, piecing them back together with ritual and supplicant incense even as Ork mekaniaks resurrect their Gargants with little more than welding torches and foul language.

>173.M41 THE BAITED BEAST
>The Cult Mechanicus deliberately triggers Waaagh! Kragga in the tightly-held Urdeshi System. Though the Waaagh! boils out of control planetside, the Imperial Navy keeps it contained to Urdesh and its neighbouring worlds. The Tech-Priests greedily harness every screed of information; so much data is gathered their overheating archives have to be relocated to the cool of Urdesh’s underground catacombs. Eventually the greenskins are methodically exterminated clan by clan. The next three centuries are spent cleansing and rebuilding the Urdeshi System. In the process, the invaluable data-catacombs are filled with rockcrete to form foundations for a grenade manufactorum.

Eh, it was much less atmospheric than its predecessor in both fluff and crunch, but there were still nice points.

>Chaos Love Marines confirmed

I only have one allies list in mind and I made lore explenation for it, it's not even optimal