/btg/ - BattleTech General

Not a prob. I really enjoy your hard work.
I do find it a little silly that the original mech name for the Locust in the Crusher Joe anime was "Ostall." Oh you, Battletech!

I was watching a Let's Play of Mechwarrior 4 and in one mission the mechs use "drop cradles" to deploy onto a the battlefield. When they touched down the cradles split and fell off. Is this a real thing or was it invented for the game? I can't find any reference to it on Sarna or elsewhere.

They're called "Drop Cocoons" and are part of the standard extra weight in a dropship's drop bay via the construction rules.

In fluff IIRC, this feature was first showcased on clan dropships in the invasion. The IS tended to use jettisonable jump packs and regular jump jets for hot drops. Nowadays, you hardly see it in fluff. It's almost always jumpjet hotdropping.

Emphasize the head area panels a bit more. The shoulders and pecs should flare out a bit and the center chest should be a bit sunken. And slant back the spotlight just a tad for more detail.

If you have the old mini, it will give you a better sense of the proportions. It's not fully round like that.

>I was quite attractive in my youth, Sang-wei!

Reposting because I'm not sure if the faget who asked for this edit got it.

>uses Capellan rank
>pic of a Drac

Shamefur dispray.

Although the Capellans, true to Fast & Furious: Language Drift, got military ranks full of wrong to join the glorious DCMS. Truly it's the new Concord of Kapteyn.

thanks for the feedback.

I'll revisit this hot mess tomorrow

> It's almost always jumpjet hotdropping.
It's not an either/or though, drop cocoons are for entering the atmosphere and are shed before hitting the ground, so jump jets/packs are still necessary.

I can't tell them apart

Which makes it even more Capellan, old school Capellan specifically, back when the emblem had a katana and shit.

>You literally posted a retconned picture, though
[citation needed] + irrelevant anyway because my point still stands

Are the leaping rules not in the new Battletech Manual?

What leaping rules?

From TO. Climbing and leaping and whatnot. Rules for level changes beyond 3 with all the risk that goes along with.

I would post a source if the forums were up, but for now it is common sense that shimmyseens are the canon appearance of the mechs and the old art is not valid.

And your point is not valid since the picture you posted is not Battletech anymore, it is similar to use a macross pic to justify where's Archer cockpit is located

>I would post a source if the forums were up
holy shit they're still down.
What the hell did they fuck up? Does this have anything to do with the boxed set being in the catalyst store accidentally?

>and the old art is not valid
I'm an old grog and will use the old art alongside the new stuff until the day I become the new emperor.
>fuck the Catalyst police

Ah. No, only the sprinting rules made it in.

>and the old art is not valid.
[citation still needed]
Find me a Shimmyseen that is the -2D. I'll wait. What I have seen seems based on the art I posted not the egg shit.

>And your point is not valid
It's even more valid since shimmy's art proves my point. This isn't even debatable unless you're just confused.

Doubt it, since the store and OF are separate (the store is still up).

Didn't the store go down too at the same time? It's back up, but I recall not being able to access the store either.

Looks consistent with how I've seen other people draw the Ostroc.

That's unfortunate. Seems like a common-sense - if highly situational - rule. We spent quite a bit of time looking for it in BTMb last night.

How's this?

I kind of like that version of the Ostroc, but what is that second mech firing the PPC in the second position. I don't recognize it.

Can't say, sorry. I never tried to access it at the same time, and haven't heard from anyone that it went down as well.

This is definitely the longest the OF has been down since the attack that lost the whole forums back a few years ago, which worries me. Still pissed that Deathshadow just dropped his backup without notice and took off, so that no one has a copy of all those posts.

Gladiator GLD-4R

The one jumping in the background? That's a gladiator. Drac 55 tonner.

I think it's the "highly-situational" part that left it out. They said only the easiest and/or most commonly used rules would be added.

Capellans eh?

When did Xin Sheng really start?

I've look at the original TRO 3050 and it looks like the Cappies were technologically better off than I thought before. How bad were they really in 3050?

I just wonder looking at how things are now if it isn't a good thing Hanse hit the Confederation instead of the Combine in 3028.

Thanks guys. That's a mech I don't have a lot of experience with.

How would you organize these?

>OTT-7K Ostscout
>CLNT-2-3T Clint
>VND-1R Vindicator
>HBK-4G Hunchback
>WVR-6R Wolverine
>OSR-2C Ostroc
>CPLT-C1 Catapult
>TDR-5S Thunderbolt

>"Ostall." Oh you, Battletech!

I joyously discovered that I had not thrown out my old Ostall (Locust) model. It's just in really bad shape, and I think one of the "toes" is missing. It's gonna take a lot of work to rehabilitate this lad!

There's also a Spartan (Archer) in there in similar condition. The rear-firing lasers are a lost cause.

Lance One:
Thunderbolt
Catapult
Ostroc
Hunchback

Lance Two:
Wolverine
Vindicator
Clint
Ostscout

Unfortunately, your choices are hampered by MP. The Catapult is the odd man in its lance with the jumping MP, but I prefer to put it in with a pile of other heavies so it's not immediate target though it does fit since after dumping the LRM magazines it gets in close with the rest of its lance.

The second lance all jumps, and the Wolverine and Vindicator can act as backstops to the Clint and Ost.

For the tech between 3030 and 3049, how much of that is Helm Core stuff and how much original innovation by the Houses?

The Hatchet and the corrosive liquid single critical Double Heat Sink are all the Houses could recover before the Helm core. And that chart is fucked.

>3039-3049 tech recovery
You should honestly ignore that stuff from those sources. It's a bigger fucking mess than retconned Star League design availability.

But to answer your question, it's all Star League tech. Non Star League is stuff like Ultra's that aren't 5's. LBX's that aren't 10's. C3. etc.

Well, except the hatchet. That's 100% homegrown tech. But they can't even get that straight. The hatchet was invented by Team Banzai in 3025 but that chart gives it to the Lyrans in 3022.

Interesting that the first LBX remains the best all the way through BT history. Even the Clans couldn't improve it significantly.

The chart did confuse me more than a little. I've been reading TRO3050 and it said the Capellans had no progress with technology (except TSM) until the FWL helped them in 3046.
Then this chart has stuff like them getting endo-steel, streak, CASE, pulse, ER, DHS, FF armor, gauss rifles, etc before 3046.
Since the fluff had the FWL giving them Helm Core tech in 3046 I'd have expected the League to have a lot of that tech well before the CapCon. I dunno.

Lance 1
TDR-5S Thunderbolt
WVR-6R Wolverine
HBK-4G Hunchback
CLNT-2-3T Clint

Lance 2
OSR-2C Ostroc
VND-1R Vindicator
CPLT-C1 Catapult
OTT-7K Ostscout

Lance one is the command lance. The commander, a distant cousin of the Archon, pilots the Thunderbolt(family 'Mech). He's an experienced Lyran commander with over five hundred confirmed social functions under his belt. He's banging the Wolverine pilot, so she gets XO position. The Hunchback is piloted by the commanders cousin. The Clint is an indentured servant of the Hunchback pilot.

The Ostroc pilot has by far the most actual combat experience, so he's been sidelined in the cannon fodder force. The Vindicator and Catapult are both salvage, piloted by relative nobodies that nobody will miss. The last pilot in the cannon fodder force is considered a political liability and is therefore piloting the battle armor. Hopefully that situation will sort itself out if you get my drift.

this in reply to

>The chart did confuse me more than a little.
Probably because it doesn't make any fucking sense.
It should be removed like discount kebab after a night out

I suspect that was the intent, that the LBX 10 was made back in the heyday of the Star League so the other IS ones ended up not as good. Which is kind of ridiculous given the IS had been studying lostech and making LBX-10s to Star League spec for years by the time they got to making the other sizes in addition to referencing to captured Clantech versions as well. And crunch wise it is absolutely ridiculous, especially for the LBX 2 and 5 since the originals are too goddamned heavy in the first place.

3052 is when he took over and it really kicked into gear.
3050 they were okay, but 4SS it was in periphery state-tier trouble.

>How bad were they really in 3050?
On the very brink of collapse. Military spending like the last days of the soviet union meant they could stay almost in the running tech-wise, but their military was falling the fuck apart and almost 50% mercenaries, and their economy was nonexistent
Read 20YU for a more complete picture of how utterly dire their situation was

I think it was more than 50% mercs IIRC

That's completely dependant on how you count the Big MAC, since they're 1/6 of the entire CCAF in 3050. If you don't count them as mercs, it's under 50, if you do, it's over.

>And that chart is fucked.

The tech retcon has been in for a long time now. Take a look at the Tech Manual some time.

Whether we like it or not things like that are canon.

I count em as mercs until XIN SHENG

They use to sell these basic model kids in the 80s at the same time as Battletech was pretty much new. They were generically called R.O.B.O.T. and they were just Macross machines from the Valkyries to the ground mechs. I had a boatload of those and built them for a long time and kind of used them as silly decorations for the mechs in the old 2nd Edition main intro game.

>used them as silly decorations for the mechs in the old 2nd Edition main intro game.

If you positioned the feet just about right, they would *almost* fit in a hex on map. Playing was clunky, but you could still do it.

I knew a guy once who had a bunch of those minis. He redrew the classic introbox map at 2× scale on 2-inch hexpaper he'd gotten somewhere so that the scale would look right, it was pretty cool. He also built a bunch of buildings and vees out of lego at the same scale, which was very neat. Wonder if I've got a picture anywhere

Is it just me or are all the dragons and grand dragons really undergunned for their weight?

It's not just you.

Rate my Mechengineering.

...

They are fast and pretty well armored. So yea undergunned. A fun mech even if not the best. Once you go Grand Dragon you can't go back to the AC one.

Such is the struggle of the fast heavy.
Plus they're 60-tonners, and 60 tons is a shit weight. The Dragon woulda been better off at 55 tons, really

kek/10
Would use

The SLDF felt the same way, which is why they bought the SHD-2H.

So, how would you fix it, while keeping the same speed profile?

but 12pt kick

The Intro-tech Grand Dragon is actually fine for the era.

The 3050 "upgrade" fucks up by going to an XL Engine, being over-sinked, and turning an extra ML to the rear.

The Grand Dragons aren't bad (though the 3050 one needs to unfuck it's rear-facing gun issue). The base dragon really is just dragged down by it's AC/5. Give it a LL, two more MLs and two more SHS and it's suddenly an actually good mech
Also, replacing the LRM-10 with twin 5s and more armor is always a good (if a little cheesy) option

>The 3050 "upgrade" fucks up by going to an XL Engine, being over-sinked, and turning an extra ML to the rear.

I agree that it has too many heat sinks for what it does, and, like said, the rear-facing guns just seem stupid... but the XL engine could have been a big deal. I think the designers wanted to keep the profile and armament similar, so rather than install a 300XL engine, which would have saved 9.5 tons, they installed a 360XL, which only saved 2.5 tons. Had they gone with a 300XL (and still upgraded to double heat sinks, even if they didn't add any more than it already had), they could have really kitted this beast out... but I think that would have lead to a radically different machine!

With the 300XL... Maybe an AC-GR swap? That would be interesting

I like this one. Admittedly it has JJ, but unless you swap to an LRM-15 or something, the extra mobility is good.

My new Grand Dragon scout mech to compete with Phoenix Hawks and Wasps / Stingers. This this madness?

>BTW the latest Mega Mek Lab (I do use Skunk but it's not on this comp) won't register the critical spaces for an XL Gyro.

>The 3050 "upgrade" fucks up by going to an XL Engine

Everything else I agree with you on, but an XL is absolutely to give a fast heavy Mech enough tonnage to mount a reasonable payload. XL engines are what allow "heavy cavalry" Mechs to exist in the first place.

With that said, the 3050 "upgrade" to the Grand Dragon is shit for the reasons you mention.

A Grand Dragon -5K which goes 6/9 and has Endo can be a really solid design, see attached. Good punch at all ranges for bracket fighting, not oversinked, and 95% armor. It's only possible because of an XL engine.

XLs are not inherently bad, like a great many idiots believe.

Here's one that happens to be similar, again swapping out the autocannon for a gauss rifle. I put rear-facing lasers on it solely because of the Orpheus's appearance (I think those are actually supposed to be components to some kind of mag-lev system), unintentionally mimicking the Dragon!

My fix on the 3050 grand dragon is to put the MLs forward, go to endo, remove the oversinking, and either add 6JJs, to create the ultimate bugstomper, or replace one of the MLs with a LPL. Maybe also do the LRM swap like says for more armor

Going 6/9 doesn't help it though. I mean, yay, it can keep up with Stormcrows and shit, but it's still going to get raped by Clan Mediums, and even a few lights. Decent Clan Heavies are going to completely shred it.

That being the case you may as well be as big a pain in the ass as possible to kill.

If you fully redesign it to be a fast-moving energy boat or something then yes, 6/9 absolutely makes sense but if you're retaining the weapons loadout of the Grand Dragon I'm less sold on the idea.

I don't believe XLs are inherently bad either. I just think that you can't get enough out of one, either at 5/8 or 6/9 on the Grand Dragon to make it worth using one over a SFE.

Are there instances of occupying clans letting the people of a planet maintain their original culture, or do they all get Kerensky'd? If there are, which clans typically do it?

If a mech has two physical weapons (eg one claw/axe in each arm), can they attack with both like with punches or are they limited to physical weapon per round?

>Are there instances of occupying clans letting the people of a planet maintain their original culture,

Yes, the Wolves do this and the Sharks/Foxes mostly stick to their own enclaves and leave everyone else alone. The Ravens haven't meddled too much in the OA either.

>or do they all get Kerensky'd?

Everyone else gets Xin Clanned.

>If a mech has two physical weapons (eg one claw/axe in each arm), can they attack with both like with punches or are they limited to physical weapon per round?

I think there is a SPA to make more than one physical attack per turn but other than that optional rule the only way to make more than one attack per round is if you are using Punches or Claws.

New to BT, but I saw this on the booru. What is this gold mech?

I think that's the jinggau, not sure though

>I don't believe XLs are inherently bad either. I just think that you can't get enough out of one, either at 5/8 or 6/9 on the Grand Dragon to make it worth using one over a SFE.

The crux of this argument is that you think that the Grand Dragon should not exist.

You aren't wrong, but still.

Viking II(c?) I believe

Non-canon kitbash.

Jutting torso is similar, but it just has one pair of gun arms.

Checked sarna, I don't think it's the Jinggau.
It looks close to a Viking IIC, but...
this guy is probably right with the stubby little arms and gun pods.

I hope this is right. Thanks guys.

It's a viking IIC with different side arms and hands

Definitely an interesting kitbash. Strange color scheme though.

Torso and missile pods (sans covers, which are custom I believe) are from the Viking. Torso laser clusters are from a Stone Rhino variant. Legs are heavily modified Viking legs (stripped the gun knees, changed the feet which is why they look a little off). Don't recognize the arms at all.

Legs are wrong too (missing the gun knees, wrong feet). It's a kitbash.

Has NEA been around lately? I wanted to mention I saw something in a TRO that seems to contradict his introbox pdf.

Thanks bro.
>Definitely an interesting kitbash. Strange color scheme though.
I love gooooooold!

No, as I said the problem with the Grand Dragon is that given how common it is for the Dracs (pobably around 1/4 to 1/3rd of the DCMS is some flavour of Dragon) the problem is how little you gain from going to an XL.

Extra speed won't help you with the Clans, who go that fast or faster. Nor will it help you against the FedCom, who will just Gausswall you at the same range.

Similarly, going to a 300XL won't get you enough guns to challenge the Clans or FedCom unless you change from the ER PPC/LRM-10/ML model to a fast-moving flashbulb design, probably something that has two standard PPCs, a bunch of MLs, and C3.

An SFE upgrade of the 3025 version gets you something that's still quite mobile for a heavy, has the same firepower as the 3050 upgrade, but is substantially more rugged than an XL version so when used in swarms it's a bigger pain in the ass to kill.

That wasn't the chancellor.

Thoughts on the Hermes II?

webm unrelated except I was thinking of naming it "Xin Sheng cultural revolution"