/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Complicated question with multiple answers, but is what most people usually mean.

Caitiff can also refer to those vampires that DO have a Clan but don't know what it is; or in some cases, vampires to who do know their Clan but have been disowned by it for some reason. However note that in these cases it's a purely social title: in either case the vampire still, from a mechanical perspective, has a Clan.

Clanbook: Caitiff is about "true" Caitiff, those who mechanically lack a Clan, through some quirk of the blood.

Note, also, while they lack Clan Disciplines, they also lack out-of-Clan Disciplines. Caitiff can learn any Discipline for the same experience cost of [6xCurrent Rating], as compared to a Clan Disciplines [5xCurrent Rating] or out-of-Clan [7xCurrent Rating]. And I do mean ANY Discipline. Caitiff are famous for being able to spontaneously develop Disciplines from Clans they're in no way related to - Obtenebration, Serpentis, even Thaumaturgy or Necromancy can pop up among them.

The other anons are correct, but you'll also see it used to refer to thin-bloods (near-human vampires).

>Just as you can heal the wounds you cause by licking them, heal the wounds caused by others by licking them
>licking
What part of vampire mythology is this from?

The part where they need to maintain a secret society for game cohesion.

Sexual themes have been part of vampire lore since Bram Stoker.

They predate him by a good bit, actually.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmilla

Okay, hear me out on this one.
Vampire - Life
>animated by the power of life within Vitae, which also fuels their powers
Werewolf - Spirit
>native to the Shadow, literally half-spirit
Mage - Prime
>obviously
Promethean - Matter
>entire gameline references alchemy, gold, lead, etc.
Changeling - Fate
>influenced by the Fae, can create binding contracts similar to Acanthus
Hunter - Forces
>"Vigil" references light and fire, also one of the most combat-oriented lines
Geist - Death
>obviously
Mummy - Time
>tied to a cycle of Sothic Turns, have likely awoken in several different eras
Demon - Space
>both angels and demons can hack space (see Boltholes)
Beast - Mind
>basically possessed by Goetia, have a literal mind palace

Also there would be a lot more dead bodies if you couldn't quickly and neatly seal the wound

I can vouch for demon. You even store your unused covers in space drawer

Vampire being life feels wrong, mostly because the Arcana doesn't even effect them.

I don't think it's appropriate for Hunters to represent an arcana, since they're not really supernatural creatures at all, Endowments and potential endgame as Slashers notwithstanding.

Well, we'll see what Deviant brings to the table then.

Well spirit doesn't exactly affect Werewolfs. Maybe if we would do pairs of arcanas for each splat like

>vampire
Death and Time
>Geist
Death and Spirit

It's a mythology thing in general. Wound-licking is an instinctive reaction for a lot of animals and agents in saliva actually help to speed up blood clotting and an enzyme in spit actually helps defend against infection, although this doesn't mean you should just spit on your cuts because mouths are filthy. The whole phoenix tears thing comes from this too probably, because that same enzyme is found in tears.

Wait, are you asking for some cool Caitiff characters to go in there?

Speaking of cool caitiff characters, there was this cool spymaster from the Dark Ages who served one of the founders of the Camarilla.

I am horribly ill and trapped at work with nothing to alleviate the pain.

Tell me about your favorite game moments from any chronicles you were in?

Well if we're going by canon then Pander and Mukhtar Bey are obligatory.

As for original ideas what do you think of a Nosferatu caitiff, who is hunted and despised by the mainstream clan but at the same time is being searched for by the Nictuku who think that it's proof that Absimiliard's plan is paying off?

why doesn't spirit affect werewolves? they're half spirit

Hard to say. I liked the look on everyones faces when prince tossed guy who created revenant and was smug about it into the fireplace

I was thinking about effects like command/summon. Or do they work on them? I might be mistaken

When it comes to survival/self-sufficiency/utility, what are the greatest Disciplines?

That is funny. Did you at least 'like' your Prince?

n or o?

Protean, Obfuscation, Fortitude, Auspex seem obvious.

I don't think i need to mention Celerity.

You can't do that, no. You could trap one with a Spirit Ban, though.

I'd say Vampires are Death and Mummies are Life. but that does make issues for Geist. You could use the same argument for Mummies being Time on Vampires.

o

Well kinda. He was acting more like police chief from action movies mixed with someone straight out of middle ages than some scheming politician.

Running Mage, shrine-maiden tried to rouse the spirit of a stegosaurus, botched, Paradox made the skeleton come to life in the museum and go crazy.

This was supposed to be a subtle mission.

well celerity and fortitude make a decent cant kill me yet i can kill you set. obfuscate is great. whatever level of auspex needed to detect invis people is extremely useful. protean can have its uses, mainly earthmeld and flight form/mist form. if you have lvl 5 dominate you can possess your retainer and stay at home all the time while still being able to interact.

those would be the general ones then things get kinda funky at elder levels.

Does anyone actually play at anciliae and elder levels? I like the gane more when you have some xp and discplines under your belt, a little more fleshed out as a vampire, but not the 6+ 'take on the antediluvians' scale people seem to focus on.

In honor of the acclained Underworld series, how would you make a vampire - werewolf romance work?

nwod and owod apply.

Probably with abominations because I'm an edgelord faggot.

yes. i've played basically every gen that isnt 3rd or lower. games come in all shapes and sizes.

Gangrel takes wolf shape, werewolf takes wolf shape

wolf-fuckin' ensues

nwod is already gear to crossover read The Pack It's pretty good

To me it sucks when a lot of STs think of fledglings or neonates as 'level 1, but aldo X vamp npc's bitch'. That shit has turned me away from a couple of games.

well until released by your sire you still count as a childer and thus are his bitch. play an older character. now if you never wanna be anyones bitch, you're playing the wrong game. one of the big themes is that theres always something older and more powerful and smarter than you and yes he wants to use you and everyone else as puppets. thats how the jihad rolls.

no. at least not in Owod. vamps aint good at feeling sexy time as they dont have fully functioning sex organs. the gangrel can however subsume a wolf and fuck with all abandon while feeling the full joy of sex.

Another very good crossover section is in the Demon Storyteller's Guide.

Fledglings and neonates ARE pretty much unilaterally somebody's bitch. You don't really become your own independent actor until you hit ancilla, and in the fledgling phase you're basically an extension of your sire.

There is mote to it than that. It can be a student-mentor relationship, or a surrogate parent. Maybe the fledgling is thinks they are an inspirational leader and loyal of their own freewill.

There are lots of ways to do a childer and sire relationship, but the one everyone loves to default to is 'commanding antagonistic patriarch', at least in my personal experience. Why would you sire someone and pour resources into them if you disdain them? Isn't that what ghouls are for, not fellow kindred? They can't ALL be like this.

Yeah but remember that they're always paranoid their childer'll pull off a third gen and kill them, add to that that you're responsible for your childe's actions and it's understandable why they're so grumpy

ITT: Vampire elders are like bitchy single moms who were irresponsible and got knocked up with a kid they hate

>The Pack

You mean the book that blatantly states how much better an Apprentice Mage is at dealing with Spirits than an Elder Uratha?

Geared towards crossover, indeed.. .. ..

>Why would you sire someone and pour resources into them if you disdain them?
this can be found repeatedly throughout cannon. its usually because you want to fuck with their world view or they are extremely good at something you need.

yes thats not the only type of relationship but is a fully supported one.

So since user's writing a caitiff book, I have a question.

How exactly does that work in vampiric terms?

As far as I know, when the embrace happens, a piece of the sire's soul merges with the childe's soul. So when a caitiff is produced, does that piece malfunction?

Yes, sometimes that's the case, other times it's the fact that the Sire was killed, scared off, or otherwise simply not able to raise their Childe.

>You mean the book that blatantly states how much better an Apprentice Mage is at dealing with Spirits than an Elder Uratha?

That isn't what it says though. You're just gobbling up what shit posters are feeding you.

Dude, Shut the fuck up. It's bait.

>"Apprentice mages can work spirit magic even elder werewolves can't"

Apparently the only edge Werewolves have is their intimacy with such things, but that doesn't really speak for much.

>Ever committing diablerie and thinning the blood of Caine
You only gain one Generation regardless of the Generation of the vampire you ate.

Different != Better.

Perhaps if you picked up a fucking book in your life? user is right.

"Crossover" does not mean every pc or splat is equally good or bad at the same things.

For instance, not every mage is proficient in Spirit.

Unless he's really old, in which case you gain several

That's false. The books stated otherwise, and there was some 11th gen who diablerized Mithras (a 4th gne) and became 6th or so.

Even with the rare exception cases like that one, there's still some loss. There were two generations lost there. That brand-new sixth gen can't produce any fifth or sixth gens, whereas Mithras could had he not been eaten.

Why is there a wizard faction when it comes to vampirism?
I honestly don't see the point in the Tremere, at least a large portion of vampire powers are from myth or understandably vampiric.

Because folklore depicted Vampires as such in the past. You're going by a common stereotype that seems to think they got locked off from the occult.Bram Stroker's Dracula was a powerful sorcerer ane one of the ten apprentices under the Devil. They never actually stated what his teacher was, exactly.

Blood magic makes a lot of damn sense.

>but that doesn't really speak for much.

No?

From V20:
>The true benefit of diablerie becomes evident if the diablerist feeds on the vitae of a vampire of lower Generation (e.g., if a Ninth-Generation vampire commits diablerie on a Seventh-Generation vampire). The diablerist literally steals the power and potency of the victim’s own blood, and thus permanently lowers her own Generation by one, bringing her closer to the mythical power of Caine. All benefits of the lowered Generation — a larger and more potent blood pool, the ability to Dominate more Kindred and, in some cases, the ability to increase Traits above 5 — are bestowed upon the vampire.
>If the victim was of far greater power (five or more Generation levels) than the diablerist, the Storyteller may rule that the predator lowers her Generation by more than one step. This is particularly likely if the victim was ancient (two millennia or more). It would not be unreasonable for a Twelfth-Generation neonate who drank the blood of a 3000-year-old member of the Fifth Generation to advance three or even more Generation steps. Ultimately, this decision rests in the Storyteller’s hands.
So in almost all cases you'll only go up by one, and even if you don't there's still going to be some waste (of at least two Generations, unless your ST is feeling especially generous).

>interfering with a mage is a great way to find out which fates are worse than death

Damn, nothing is safe from Mage supremacy.

I think you're a bit limited on your history.

To be fair, interfering with a werewolf is also that.

Well, rather it's mostly a great way to find out all the fun and interesting ways you can die.

Aren't half-vampires a thing?
I pretty sure they're a sign of the end of days for the more powerful vampires, but they do exist.

I think thin-bloods can breed, yeah.

And their children can become completely immune to every level of Obfuscate!

There were several types of Quasi-vampires in oWoD, Revanents which were basically ghoul Families which can breed true and have their own blood pools also work.

Shoutout to KotE Dhamphyir.

While a Thyrsus is a counter to any Uratha, they also make for very powerful allies. Similar to the Acanthus and Changelings.

The only thin I loved from KoTE was Thousand Hells and D E V I L T I G E R S. Everything else was kinda nuts.

Or a Geist and a Moros, or an Obrimos and a Demo- Huh...maybe not that last one.

Moros would also be a good fit for vampires.

Devil Tigers were awesome

Could also add a little sprinkle of Mastigos in there as well. Or just have the Moros get a few tricks in Mind.

While a Thyrsus would make an exceptionally good ally, a mage of any Path would provide significant strength, versatility and influence to any Pack (or motley, coterie, etc.).

If any splat engages in battle with anyone (including and particularly mages), requires stealth or may benefit from control of technology, they'll damn well appreciate their friendly neighborhood Obrimos.

This offends my Crane sensibilities.

Hunter and Vampire a a bit of a stretch, but still cool.

What's better, 1st or 2nd edition Awakening?

Forces is just so damn versatile.

Could perfecting magic empower gifts, disciplines, contracts, etc. Cause that would make crossovers a lot more interesting.

Devil Tigers got a lot of play in my KotE games because the other Dharma concepts were hard for my players to grasp.

Speaking of, how is there not a KotE20th or anything yet? Have they just not gotten around to it? I'd love some books that aren't printed with grey text on grey backgrounds.

Depends on the power in question. Some things, like what you're asking, require Archmastery. Sometimes not always. A Fate Adept can nullify and rewrite a Changeling's Contracts, for instance.

It can if you want it to. It wouldn't be much of a stretch really.

>Forces is just so damn versatile.

Anyone who can control gravity is a good ally to have (and someone not to irritate).

>reading through the Free Council book
>you can use Forces to fucking enchant cars to drive up walls

>Acanthus and Changelings

Yeah, the Acanthus will fuck over a Changeling entirely once they reach Adept status. Same with Demons. Fate is a bit too strong for my taste.

>Thearch reacts to Libertine's bullshit

Too offensive to nips and gooks who don't play these games to begin with