Looking at TY again, I think the issue with Cross ratings is that lack of rerolls. Reading between the lines cross 3+ is just basic tank cross, 2+ is wide tracks, and 4+ is overloaded... which means there's no difference between wheeled vehicles crossing and heavier tanks.
Jeremiah Harris
Divizione Folgore? My dark skinned brethren
Grayson Rodriguez
The T-55AMB2 isn't that heavy, though. Even with applique it's about the same weight as the T-72 and has basically the same ground pressure.
Brandon Sanders
Man, there was some really poorly informed panicking about the V4 starter stuff in the previous thread. The nation-specific boxes and the hardcover version of the rulebook have been announced for fucking weeks, lads.
IMO, having nation-specific starter boxes that get you a basic "tanks plus AT guns" army plus the rulebook is way better than Open Fire, since you're not locked into Grenadiers or Market Garden Brit tanks.
The mini-box with the rulebook and five tanks is a low-cost entry point like in earlier editions: it allows you to explore the basics and do some simple tonk fightan before jumping in properly with an army box or just some indvidual unit boxes that will work together.
Personally, I'm looking forward to the MW rework and how things will be different. Only thing I'm kinda unsure about is how they'll change the Soviets.
Cameron Murphy
but dood we gotta have 3 for 2 points! Just nerf them to shit!
Luis Sanders
2bh it's probably just a retarded way of making a horde army's vehicles weaker. Here we have THE most popular MBT ever conceived and fielded, but it gets bogged down if it tries to cross so much as a molehill?
Honestly it should just behave like a T-72 but with thinner armour and a weaker gun, that's it, no more fiddling needed. No retarded slow-loading crews, no gunner who forgot to turn the stabiliser on, nothing.
Mason Garcia
from the latest WWPD podcast where they discuss V4, this is what I picked up from the first hour, think it's all correct:
SHOOTING: - Shootingh - either MG or Main Gun - Shooting at Aircraft - similar to TY - 8inches for AA safe zone - Like in TY - LoS to Aircraft can never be blocked - terrain like in TY - either tall or short - 2 inches from the edge of terrain you can see normaly otuside but you are concealed - teams in upper flors of buildings see teams outside in buildings not ceonceald, even in short terrain - No HE is now +1 to shoot - After shooting on Aircraft in enemy turn, apart from no def fire and shooting and assaulting turn after, you may NOT be GtG until the end of enemy's next turn - When you rotate to hit, you can rotate the turret OR rotate the whole tank 90degrees - shooting through smoke is only +1 to hit - your hits must be assigned to the same type of teams and 6 inches within hit team - MAn packed gun teams and light/medium guns are now 3+ save - Heavy and Immobile guns are 4+ save - Aircraft has it's own save now - 3+ usual and shooter needs to pass FP test to kill it - passengers in destroyed transport retain their usuall save - 3+ or 4+ - Everybody get mission tactics - Warrior save is now 3+ - Unit with 12 or more teams at the start of the shooting step need 8 hits to be pinned - Commander morale reroll to every unit that is within 6 inches of commander and has LoS - Flamethrowers do not run out od ammo! - Breakthrough gun is now reroll to save, not instant fail
Justin Young
- Artillery - you have only 1 Observer, other units may spot depending on army - May not fire artillery bombardment if you attempted to dig-in! - aiming point may be on the ground, anywhere observing team can see, no need to put it on team - No more double width template - You only have three range in attempts for one observer team, if you range in on first, you may give the rest of range in attempts to another artillery, with penalites for second and third range in - you hit on enemy rating - 5 or more guns get reroll to hit - Staff teams are gone, so everybody have all guns repeat! - Change to Artillery FP and AT rating depending on whatever you hit infantry/gun team or tank: on Infantry (older FP/newer FP) - 1/1;2/2;3/3;4/3;5/4;6/4 on tanks (older AT/newer AT) - 6/3;5/3;4/3;3/2;2/1;1/0 - Repeat bombardment may be with different spotting team - Infantry and gun teams need to reroll saves when under Repeat bombardment! - 1 Smoke bombardment per game per artilery unit - LoS through Smoke is blocked unless you are within 6 inches, otherwise +1 to hit
ASSAULT - More or less like Team Yankee - Teams on small bases got +1 to hit in assault - Infantry choose how to hit tank - top armour against TA2/FP1+ or side armour against any AT weapon you have. - Shurzen is now Side armour 5 against At weapon with 5 or 6 FP
Grayson Watson
After realizing that I'm using some kind of green for three fucking quarters of the surface area of my army: how do I properly do the white stripe and cross as seen here? Also how badly will I want to kill myself if I want to freehand the geometric symbol of the unit I chose plus numbers? I came up with a suitably confusing numbering system to use.
Jordan Thompson
I just wonder if Italians will get a plastic starter, or if we'll just get plastic M14/41s and kindly told to fuck right off.
>51414810 I doubt they'll change stormtrooper. If anything they'll probably make it better.
Noah Miller
Micropens are the answer. At least for the geometric stuff.
Cameron Jones
To get the stripe you either need to freehand very steadily, or you need to use masking tape. The really narrow kind you can find in hobby stores.
Liam Anderson
Actually don't worry too much about it being messy; they were hand-painted and often in a hurry, so they're almost never neat and tidy.
Also, some would've been covered in stars instead, since the white crosses were believed compromised and the system was changed.
Cameron Diaz
Hell just look at the one in your picture, the line's of varying thickness at multiple points.
Levi Robinson
Tried to night attack as Aufklärungs in Hasty attack against a soviet motor rifle brigade. Everything was going according to plan, I had a ton of firepower on the left flank assaulting an objective.
I have 4 PAH helicopters behind a tree line engaging T-72s out in the open. 4 shots, 4 misses. The rubber ammo my Leo 1s shoot decide to hit the front armor on the turret instead of the flank. His infantry on the objective make every single infantry save they take.
Still had a lot of fun. Love the dynamic that the missions bring to the game. Hasty attack is loads of fun. Night fighting rules really make things interesting. I think night fighting using a prepared attack might be the way to beat the Brits.
Elijah Peterson
send me a C&D
Justin Young
Any game where wheeled vehicles and tanks are on par off the road is shit design, desu.
ayylmao
Dominic Richardson
It's funny how the only saving grace of the 100 point system, is that it is so fucking clunky fan-made work slots right in.
Jaxon Morris
Shouldn't 4 of the tanks cost 12 points? Anyway, I'm pretty sure that was the version of the T-55 everyone was hoping for.
Not just off road, but in the forest.
The point resolution is 8 bit.
Jonathan Turner
Yeah, I was generalizing off-road terrain. It's still retardedly poor thought and design tho.
In other news, maybe if I paint my soviets like they're all those near-misses Red Dawn features, it'll take the edge off how bad the mook army is.
Dylan Morris
if it wasn't for the AT being horrible I'd say that the t-55 was way too fucking strongit could run up, Slav squat somewhere with it's vet hit score and laugh and at 1/2 the price of the chieftain. those stabbers make it a bit scarier too. won't ever survive a hit ANY nato main gun but you can spam this shit
Luke Cooper
Yeah, 10 tanks hit on 4+ sounds horrific to stop. They can just dash up, soak 50% casualties, and side shot everything which is game over.
Colton Martinez
I was going to pain them all red to do that. RA helps calm the nerves when i see a Scottish airlanding division
Luke Murphy
That'd be awesome, user. Granted, it's a picture for ants, but I liked the look of pic-related for some red alert guys.
Julian Robinson
Yeah, some times the dice just let you down.
It's disappointing, but it can happen.
Also, I love the look of that table.
Although I think the trains might have some trouble with that low bridge.
Ayden Jenkins
"Imma T55"
"Igonna roll up and fucup yoa shit! Uurah!"
>positive thumbs up
Dylan Morgan
I thought the missile T-55s and T-62s were upgraded with was the Bastion?
Julian Russell
Genuinely now an appealing option opposed to being vomit inducing trash
No the 9M117(9K116-1?) Bastion. Actually upon closer inspection they had a 1K13 BOM guidance unit that could be used with the Stabber or the Bastion. Neat.
I assume from you comment there's a Bastion ASM now too?
Isaac Watson
Before I became a full autist I never noticed that those are actually pretty good shots; direct hit on the flat hull behind the roadwheels and a near miss on the turret ring.
Jayden Rodriguez
user, try to rebalance the cost, atm there's aboslutely 0 reasons to pick T-55AM2B over T-72M I think 25-30 for 10 tanks should be a good cost
Samuel Jenkins
That hit on the hull side probably penetrated, I can't think of any modern MBT with decent protection there - it's all on the hull front and turret now.
Alexander Adams
>open fire starter set >11 tanks, 2 guns and 27 infantry bases >el alamein starter set >4 tanks what the fuck happened???
Ryan Russell
*5 tanks but my point remains
Jackson Reed
Hit on 4+. His T-55s are perhaps even undercosted.
Asher James
Oh i missed that
Jeremiah Wilson
Battlefront is switching starter set philosophy to what has worked well in TY. Not sure why the El Alamein box set even exist. The DAK and Desert Rats boxes are the ones you want for a starter set.
Though no, there will never be another box set that is as good as a deal as Open Fire.
Jeremiah Sanchez
I figure it's a couple of these things. 1. people who play LW > MW 2. people who play Germans and Americans > brit players 3. brit who play heavy tank/ calvary tank regiments? it's a really small niche and while i don't think battlefront is a collection of business geniuses i assume they understood the marginal utility of their box set is slight and thus producing a large block of them and keeping it cheap is likely going to keep it useful to people starting and doesn't really keep anyone locked to any specific army emotionally. while you can have the other box sets for the DAK and Desert Rats boxes to help those who really do want to get into the DR or DAK or to build of the boxset. That being said i don't know why the grand total is 6/5 brit combat platoons are 3 a piece and a light cav needs min 8 crusaders and a heavy one needs 8 grants/shermans.
Liam Jackson
El Alamein is there as a cheap entry point that tries to not scare off the customer with a huge box of minis.
Which I can tell you is a legitimate thing from helping out at the FLGS.
John King
What are you entering? Sure you get a mini rulebook, but when you finish the kit you are nowhere close to having a playable army. I think they should throw in TANKS cards with this set if they want it to sell.
I know it's tough to get people to jump the shark and buy into a game that needs so many models, but at the same time, I don't think a kit with a sprinkle of models is going to really be pulling people into a serious commitment. Maybe the hobby crowd might give it a bit to build the kits, but it's a starter set that doesn't lead anywhere.
Caleb Allen
would you really want them to make a africa only army box? seriously crusader 2s and grants don't really have a lot of use outside of it british mech tends to be ehhh and as much as i'd like a valentine squadron start set from BF i don't think they are ready for that
Jordan Evans
No, I think they should stick to the nation specific boxes. I am honestly just questioning what use the El Al box is besides for in store demos or hobbyists that want a few North Africa tanks to paint. Maybe it will just be really cheap?
Aiden Watson
Consider this: Maybe it's the cheapest way to get a mini rulebook as of now?
Bentley Sanchez
that's what i figure is the case. I'm going to pick up a copy when it comes out myself along with perhaps the DRs because as much as i hate grants i don't think crusaders will do so well without them. almost guarantee (when accounting for the prince +models)
John Hughes
Fair enough. I'll probably buy a hardback but the mini rulebooks are nice to carry around and the new binding doesn't explode immediately upon opening.
Mason Carter
Assuming you don't already have a large V3 rulebook, of course.
Nathan Kelly
Or mini rulebook apparantly.
Probably the biggest drawback to the PAH flight. Get in a good roll and they've made back their point cost in one swing. Get in a bad roll and they don't do shit and are eating shilka rounds for the next turn. The biggest drawback to NATO choppers is that repositioning costs you a turn of firing. Found out you still have to move. Once you lose gone to ground you are super vulnerable.
>low bridge
Logan Watson
That gets you the early/late rulebook that doesn't talk about unit cards etc and is designed to be compatible with the current briefings for Early/Late stuff. Plus a booklet with the changes to special rules etc.
The mini-rulebook in El Alamein is the Mid-War one.
I'm assuming the box is gonna be pretty damn cheap to provide that easy step-in point where you just have a few tanks battling, Tank Aces style. It's a decently entertaining and cheap, simple way to get the basics down, after which you can then expand to either an army deal or just a couple of boxes of minis. It makes more sense than you seem to think.
Zachary Thomas
It's a cheap and easy buy-in, but it's not a representation of the full game experience.
A starter set, even a small one, should give you at least some feel for the full game.
X-wing is a good example, the starter set is small, but it uses the full rules and gives you a feel for how the game will play at full points values.
Parker Bell
why are there markers for foxholes/leader/anti-air?
Justin James
I love Ritterkrieg's work, but man are his men scary when observed close in. Can really see the PTSD roiling beneath their flesh.
Carter Ward
>foxholes the new dug in >leader because of mission tactics and the new shooting rules, everyone will experience cases of the title platoon leader jumping around a lot. >anti-air firing aa will prevent that unit from firing the same weapon the turn after. That'll need a token.
Lucas Cook
Nah, that's just a "WTF have you done with V4 Battlefront?" look.
Ian King
Tried to shortcut painting some faces on my grenadiers. What do you think?
>but seriously I need to change my method because brown with a highlight isn't getting the job done on these plastic faces.
Logan Parker
It's a desire for death. The two are twins you know
Nathan Miller
Just bought a West German army. Gonna be doing some East Germans vs Best Germans. I'll let you guys know how it plays out.
Alexander Bell
>wessis >best germans
Wyatt Price
east germans aren't even people
Jason Lee
I want to play Japan. What should I look for?
Justin Long
Your best bet is to buy the army book Banzai.
This covers the fighting against the US Marines in the Pacific, and has points values for that.
It also lists points values for cross-compatibility with European armies from 1944 & '45.
Jack Foster
God I'm dreading V4. I get that V3 was fatally compromised, but they drew all the wrong conclusions. I've been playing FoW since 2003 and this is the first time I've really been shitting on the proposed new rules.
Owen Sanchez
Part of it is that BF doesn't seem to like plastic infantry anymore. And it's pretty unusual across the industry to stick metal models in starter boxes.
Carson Long
What was wrong with V3?
Jaxon Wood
Not *that* much: artillery a bit too good against tanks, particularly the 5/2+ stuff. Too many special rules, particularly for late Late War US which can stack an ungodly number. etc.
By and large it works, but there could have been some adjustments for a proper V4 which would have made a much better game. Instead it sounds like we got Flames of Sigmar.
Brandon Martin
It more like we got Flames of Yankee, a mix of Flames of War and Team Yankee.
And personally, I actually kinda prefer Team Yankee.
Juan Walker
Two books available to you; Banzai for LW, or Rising Sun for EW.
Dylan King
They're mostly making it play like TY, which isn't a terrible thing I suppose. Some things seem a bit weird, but it's nowhere near the derp levels of AoS.
Anthony Walker
I HAVE THE V4 MW BOOK WILL UPDATE IF PERMITTED TO POST
Xavier Flores
You'd better not be joking user...
Jason Scott
TY does not have stupid shit like "re-roll saves when under repeat bombardment" - For everyone. For free. Mortars much better for no points increases in EW and LW, etc.
There is a ton of stuff that is going to look extremely good/bad for the points in EW and LW thanks to no re-pointing andmassive rules changes. While the new MW lists should work with the new rules, I'm not convinced EW and LW will work nearly as well.
Austin Green
The overworked special rule is for combined commander/loaders and gives +1 to hit when moving. A version of the Crusader has it. The 6pdr is also only at9.
Adrian Rivera
Lots of stat changes.
Brayden Miller
Stormtrooper is two movement orders in a row. Most special rules are just stat alterations. Only German and Brit rules included.
Ayden Moore
>Stormtrooper is two movement orders in a row.
V4 has orders like in TY?
Jack Morris
>Stormtrooper is two movement orders in a row
What?!?...so,move 4" then another 4" potentially?
Jace Thomas
>The 6pdr is also only at9.
Is the Sherman's pathetic 75mm still AT10?
Daniel Sanders
Problem is that some stuff that makes sense for modern warfare doesn't make sense for WWII. And a lot of that is being dragged over.
Connor Sullivan
>Need 3 men in turret or you're suddenly as bad as only one man in turret >AT 9 6pdr Well there goes my last hope for V4.
Samuel Lopez
Not going to say more.
Christian Sanders
[Doubt]
Ryder Morgan
Except looking at the range finder tool infantry move 8" a turn. So Germans will move 16" every turn?
Blake Anderson
This one actually makes sense, if they do this everything moves in 4" increments.
Parker Bell
This is very good game comrade. Trust me I am high ranking NKVD officer. IS-2 is going to be best tank. Named after Comrade Stalin! Very stronk!
Adrian Stewart
what?
either scan or close-photo pages or GTFO....
we want action.... or clarity.
Oliver Walker
Stormtrooper is two movement ORDERS. As in the ones in Team Yankee. I don't think there are any differences.
Camden Butler
New to Flames, still building my armies.
Currently working on German halftracks, what paint do I need? I already have the yellow (Dunklegelb?) which I've painted my Stugs, and soon my PzIVs, but I know the inside of the halftracks is generally painted a creamy white color. Which one is generally considered the best?
Jaxon Gomez
German camo beige might be what you're after.
Brayden Wilson
You may also want some reflective green if you wanted to put any camo on. I did a really quick technique with a foam brush to mimic a speckled camo. Just dab any excess off the lightly dab the foam over the body. The lighter you dab the smaller the specks.
Jaxon Long
So I'm at cancon atm and the owner of BF is going to do a QA. Any questions you want asked, sing out.
Ayden Edwards
Now that Volksarmee is out there's nothing I really need to know. Ask about the T-64 maybe?
Juan Ward
To someone who doesn't play TY, can you explain what that means?
Hudson Morales
It's statted appropriately is comparison to other atgs.
James Morgan
Not all AT guns are created equal though, some are in fact better than others.
Jaxon Cooper
The T-80.
Brandon Allen
Orders are special things you can do with your unit if you pass a die roll.
Stormtrooper would probably be best covered by either the "Follow Me" order or the "Shoot and Scoot" order from Team Yankee depending on if you just wanted some extra movement, or if you wanted to stay still to shoot and then move away afterwards.