/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls General

That sounds cool

Elinhir has made me ponder for a while now. I always thought it was a city with Cyro-Nordic/Colovian inhabitants/influences, yet it is supposedly a Crown-controlled city. I suppose the situation could be such that the city is majority Redguard but the countryside is inhabited by Colovians.
There's got to be some isolated Nedic communities lying around in that general area, too. Maybe some Nedic-Orcish mixed communities analogous to the Reachmen (minus the Mer blood).

That sounds neat but I also really enjoy the theory that they are a 'Seventh House' of the Velothi Clans that made their exodus to Morrowind. Basically the theory goes they were a radical sect of Chimer that left the clan early on in the exodus and settled in Morrowind before Veloth and the boys made it there. Alternatively, they were a radicalized sect that left long before Veloth and his followers, being the dogmatic extreme of 'no gods' vs. the aldmer 'these gods only' and the chimer's 'but these gods too'ideologies.

> they are a 'Seventh House' of the Velothi Clans that made their exodus to Morrowind
I hate this theory baka desu senpai. Their culture and worldview is just so goddamn alien I can't see them coming from the same stock as Chimer.

Where from, then?

Either from Old Altmora, or from early Aldmeri explorers/settlers in middle ME (see "Before the Ages of Man" by Aicantar of Shimerene)

I've always wondered what triggered the Dwemer so hard that there entire culture is based off atheist dogma

Some kind of divine betrayal or a disaster of similar scale. I mean, look what happened to Altmer after Oblivion Crisis and Shattered-Law.

I like what Baladas Demnevanni (the Telvanni wizard in Gnisis) had to say about it:

>It was unfashionable among the Dwemer to view their spirits as synthetic constructs three, four, or forty creational gradients below the divine. During the Dawn Era they researched the death of the Earth Bones, what we call now the laws of nature, dissecting the process of the sacred willing itself into the profane. I believe their mechanists and tonal architects discovered systematic regression techniques to perform the reverse -- that is, to create the sacred from the deaths of the profane. As the Dwemer left no corpses or traces of conflict behind, I believe that generations of ritualistic 'anti-creations' resulted in their immediate, but foreseen removal from the Mundus. They retreated behind math, behind color, behind the active principle itself. That the Dwemer vanished during a conflict with Nerevar and the Tribunal is merely coincidence.

>During the Dawn Era they researched the death of the Earth Bones
So basically, Dwemer were already a thing before linear time?

>dawn era
>dwemer doin this shit
i rike

Maybe they were sinistral mer who got bothered when their worship of elfLorkhan was rewarded by getting destroyed by the black man, who came to Tamriel illegally btw

But then why Wraithguard is a right hand gauntlet?
Checkmate atheists.

So, the reach definetly belongs to the forsworn, right?

Western Reach or Eastern Reach?

All rightful imperial clay
It belongs to the emperor

I really don't like the Reach as portrayed in Skyrim. I mean sure, there are going to be wild parts but to basically make the region a primitive Celtic hill country is not what I imagined it to be.

But badass druidic terrorists are fun.

Primitive mongrel terrorists with bird-hags and mini-Lorkhans.
Forsworn are cool.

More physical (or metaphysical) symbolic representations of tonal architecture, such as bells, seems to be more of a hallmark of the appropriation of tonal techniques than those of the Dwemer proper. This is basically based on the Sixth House alone, who model themselves on Dwemer culture and sciences in what is perhaps a superficial manner, as can be seen in the Sixth House bells. Of course, their plans are anything but superficial and Dagoth would have a more inclusive understanding than, say, the corprus infected guy who's face exploded.

The Dwemer were advanced enough to have computers, GPS, cell phones, so it was probably relatively less ritualistic than what would come later.

Could be totally wrong.

>Do not think as others do that Kagrenac created the Anumidum for petty motivations, such as a refutation of the gods. Kagrenac was devoted to his people, and the Dwarves, despite what you may have read, were a pious lot-he would not have sacrificed so many of their golden souls to create Anumidum's metal body if it were all in the name of grand theater.

Maybe I'm contradicting myself here, but the Dwemer aren't, like, totally alien. They have discernible motivations. Not that I'm disagreeing, it totally possible.

It's basically the same philosophy of the Thalmor, and all Mer, except from the other way around (and that means geographically as well).

It was supposed to live up to its name, literally being a REACH in terms of living in and around the area.

Forsworn could've had more variety instead of all being glass cannons, too.

On second thought, maybe this is just because we see 6house in action but not the Dwemer.

They probably had ritualistic aspects too, or at least there isn't enough evidence to say they didn't.

>The Dwemer were advanced enough to have computers, GPS, cell phones, so it was probably relatively less ritualistic than what would come later

Yeah, thats why the focus of my conjecture was /primitive/ dwemer culture. Considering how much Dagoth loves the dwemer, I wouldn't be surprised if he "stole" the bell concept in order to spread his influence, whereas the Dwemer might've used them as local wifi to amplify their telekinetic bs. In my mind, Dwemeri bells would've been much much larger and more often than not had some sort of internalized hammer and prong structure that rotated to ding dong at high velocity while the bell hammered into the earth. Kinda like a jet engine except with trap music.

Is Reach Kosovo

I don't know if the Dwemer ever even had a primitive, early version of their own culture, or if they did it might be far enough back that they would still just be Aldmer. Though I guess that development was what made them distinct from the Aldmer in the first place.

The bell stuff is definitely a Dwemerboo thing, along with Ash Vampire facial hair and whatnot. You're probably spot in in the distinction between the two and their use.

The forsworn could have had more variety, but the geography of the reach is fine IMO. I know I've killed my characters more times on accident in that region than any other.

I wish Skyrim (the game) was more like Skyrim (the province).

Reach still has some traces of intelligent life.

>In my mind, Dwemeri bells would've been much much larger and more often than not had some sort of internalized hammer and prong structure that rotated to ding dong at high velocity while the bell hammered into the earth.
Like this?

I always thought the Reach was the most developed part of Skyrim (since it was once Mer stronghold) but then in the game, I was constantly under attack by some cavemen. Also, it didn't really feel like they were a distinct culture and ethnicity (other than the caveman costumes).

Yeah, thats the feeling I am starting to get. I feel like they would've just segued from Aldmer culture into their own Dwemer tonal studies easily, just applying what they already knew and stripping down un-needed stuff while becoming more industrial in their overall designs.

I had this idea that they'd braid their beards with little bells, and possibly telekinectically move the bells to make their beards rattle to do some crazy tonal manipulation bs. Just really wacky stuff like that before they refined their techniques and became the nerds were knew them for.

Yeah, but more like the thumping device the Fremen use on Arrakis to distract the worms, and much, much, bigger.

youtube.com/watch?v=ld2DMsyy0go&feature=youtu.be&t=2m15s

>I always thought the Reach was the most developed part of Skyrim (since it was once Mer stronghold)

You are dumb.

>ywn play as little more than a housecat but with unimaginable cosmic power.

Khajit lore is best lore.

Felidae would be the best Alfiq play inspiration.

>I feel like they would've just segued from Aldmer culture into their own Dwemer tonal studies easily, just applying what they already knew and stripping down un-needed stuff while becoming more industrial in their overall designs.
Yeah, like, tonal architecture was just the next concept after they finished figuring out the gravity earthbone, and it turned out to be the most useful.

Dwemeri tonal fashion would be a thing to behold.

The Reach was literally the last stronghold of the Direnni, the location of three major cities (Dragonstar, Markarth Side and possibly Snowhawk). It's also the one region most suitable for agriculture if the 1st edition of the PGE is taken into account. The latter also mentions the population from other lands (Bretons, Cyrodils, even Khajiti), meaning it was also host to a notable centre of trade.

>dood muh PGE
get over it nerds

Nice chimposting.

Who are you calling a chimp?

Osting.

bretons were a mistake and the only reason they are held relevant anymore is because they live in the province where convention took place

So I've been toying around a bit with the Colovian-Nibenean split and it went a bit further. How do you all think about this setup?

Cyro-Nords - intermixing between Nedes and Nords, huge Nordic influence. Western part possibly it's own distinct North Colovian culture
Heartlanders - sub-category of the Nibenese
Cheydin - A bit more Nordic influence than the Heartlanders and Nibenese but still part of the Nibenean sphere
West Wealders - Isolated Colovian settlement with some Nibenean influence
Breto-Nords - Inhabitants of Farrun and Jehanna who have lived under Nordic rule for a long time in the past.
Bjoulsaeans - mixed race of horse nomads, possibly some connection to the Reachmen

I've been making some plans for a more detailed map where I'd make even more in-depth divisions (like the Gold Coast Colovians, for example).

Khajiit lore is great, and there's some fun concepts in it that don't get talked about a lot.

Let's talk about liches.

How does one become a lich? Seems like there's a different method each game.

Vampires are the sphere of Molag Bal due to his creation of the disease. Do any daedra claim liches, or undead in general?

Liches are universally made through necromancy. Since necromancy was only illegal due to an Archmage's personal taste, is it possible to have legal liches walking through the streets?

A few Telvanni extend their lives through necromancy, but I also remember hearing that Restoration can also extend one's life. Is necromancy a subset of Restoration?

Are liches the best healers in Tamriel?

It is not something that's easy to explain, but the entire culture, in fact the very race that is the Dwemer, finds its first roots within an inferiority complex so old it dates before recordable time.

According to legend, before humans walked Tamriel, their once was a small group of Elves traveling across the Velothi mountains who came across a race of giants. The giants who had never seen Elves before named them the 'Dwarves' which means Dwemer.
Now this is just a legend of course, and generally understood to probably not be completely true, but even myths can still have a bit of truth to them.
Written in the greater Anuad (not the Children's one, the actual ancient book) are references to a group of Elves who were the "brilliant students" of the Ehlnofey. Now as some have come to understand it, these brilliants students were the Dwarves, who in turn earned their famous name from their "titanic masters." But the Ehlnofey aren't really living things, more like foundations for how the laws and natures of the Earth work. Higher celestial things that died and became wood and dirt and mortals.
Go back to Baladas' quote, the other user wrote..
The Dwarves, not the literal students of the Earthbones, but the observers. A group of Elves who early on studied their famous death, intrigued, or perhaps disturbed, by these sacred concepts, converted into the profane things of the physical earth.
quote from YR, PGE1
>Why would any self-respecting Mer refer to himself as a "dwarf", even if it were a name given by the blessed Earthbones?
>it does not occur to them that stature may refer to things outside of the physical
Here's where it becomes clear
Why would a group of Elves refer to themselves as Dwarves?
The name has nothing to do with height. But rather the Dwemer's own insecurities over being clearly lesser things, which they absolutely resent. This denomination came to define a way of thinking, later an entire race.

That's cool. Check out the Province Cyrodiil mod for Morrowind, that deals with things like this.

Why were Cyrodiil liches so much more stylish and cool than lame-o Nordic scalie liches?

This makes perfect fucking sense.

Damn, that's a sexy lich, I must say.

You can't draw a hard devide between Colovian and Cyro-Nordic.

Nibenean influences and higher standards among Imperial undead.

So the khajiit creation myth has azura taking the khajiit from the protobosmer, and binding them to the moons.

This seems to neatly explain their many different forms. They're protobosmer whose forms are controlled by the moons at birth.

Pretty much.

If there was one more playable race added, which would you pick?

dude, ty

never thought of it this way. mind = blown.

Posts on their forums have actually been an inspiration for me.
I didn't know what to do with the people of the West Weald (which is populated in my headcanon; I don't remember anyone being there in Oblivion) since it's supposedly part of Colovia but lying beyond the Strid river so closer to Nibenay. I'd imagine they wouldn't be completely isolated since Riverhold south of the border is supposedly popular with the merchants.

Right, I imagine there'd be some sort of cultural and dialect continuum between North Colovia (Falkreath) and all the way across the Jeralls down towards Anvil. Anvil to me seems like something of an outlier since it's a bustling trade city that gets a lot of foreign traffic and because I don't know if it was settled by the Nordic mercenaries to the same extent as the rest of Colovia (the first known king of Anvil, Bendu Olo, doesn't have a very Nordic-sounding name to me; makes me think Anvil retained more of its Nedic character).

I'd have the Imperials divided into the Colovians and Nibeneans, at the very least. If not that, then the Imga.

Just give me more cats.

What races are playable in UESRPG at this point?

>wanting to play as a pompous, moronic ape

I think it's only the main races, as the supplement with more races hasn't been updated yet.

Call me a degenerate but I'd like me some Lilmothiit.

People of Anvil seem to be their own distinct branch of Colovian (Oloman?), and similarly the people of Kvatch as well (Kvatchi? Kvetchi?).
I'd argue the only place that can truly still be called 'Cyro-Nordic' would be Falkreath, Bruma seems to be mostly just nords settled in Cyrodiil. Eastern Jeralls would probably be a culturally Nibenese region (I'm basing that on the Ancestor Moth temple being there).
West-Wealders is just a really weird name.

>West Weald
Isn't that Skingrad? It would probably serve as the conventional breadbasket for Colovia versus the extensive rice fields of the Nibenay, and as such would be one of the more densely populated areas. Considering it borders on Khajiit territory, particularly the nomadic northern tribes (that's a thing, right?), their culture might also play a factor, but to what extent?

Bruma is actually a Nibenese city, yeah. As we see in Skyrim, though, it does have a pretty heavy Nordic influence comparable to Colovia.

Honestly can't think of one, I'm all for adding more races as npcs giving them a presence in the games but as playable I'd rather just keep it as it is or if anything add a few alternate khajiit forms to pick from, some of the more human-like ones

Etymological note:
Lilmothiit is just Ta'agra for "Someone who lives in Lilmoth".

>West-Wealders is just a really weird name.
Yeah, it's a placeholder. I really don't know what to call them. West Weald Colovians? Nibeno-Colovians?
That reminds me, I'm sure the division between the Colovians and Nibeneans themselves is not clean cut.

East/South West Weald? I don't know if it has a specific name but it's the region beyond the Strid River, in that little dent on the border with Valenwood and Elsweyr. It seems too eastern to be completely Colovian.

And Khajiit is "Someone who lives in sand", your point?

West Weald Colovians would be applicable in a literal sense.

Also, yeah, Kvetchi.

Bruhmahti too.

The Wealdens.

"Khajiit" has more implications than that.

But my point is that it's interesting. Unless the Lilmothiit spoke Ta'agra, then they probably didn't call themselves Lilmothiit, and the name they're remembered by is just a Khajiiti loanword.

Well, it's not like we can know for sure now that they're all dead because of Japanese cold.

I mean, as we see in Oblivion.

I don't really know what to call them. Also, what's the possibility of them also spreading across the border into north Elsweyr (around Riverhold?

I've had more questions while doing this little exercise
>what is the population of Rimmen like?
>who populates Stormhold and Gideon, two cities formed by the Ayleids?
I can't really picture Argonian cities. To me, they seem these tribals who'd inhabit the swamps (since they can live underwater and all). I've been thinking Nibenean tribals could've resettled the Argonian side of the border after the flu went through its course.

That sounds cool

>what is the population of Rimmen like?
Let's immediately address the supposed Akaviri population.

Rimmen used to have a significant Akaviri population, but it's a Khajiiti city.

Argonians definitely live in cities, they're just kind of weird and swampy.

>I can't really picture Argonian cities.
Think Transvaal. All the cities were built by Canthemiric Velothi, Barsaebic Ayleids, Kothringi and Lilmothiit and modern Argonians are just kinda squatting there.

Right, that's one of the main questions. I don't know if their situation would be the same as with the Akaviri in Nibenay who intermarried with the Nibenean upper classes and mostly disappeared in their original form. I feel like the region where they founded Rimmen wouldn't be as populated as Nibenay so they could remain the ruling class in Rimmen.

Makes me wonder if there are any Nibeneans there. Also, how much of the population of Orcrest is actually Orcish.

I like to think there are still some Wild Elves living in those cities. In my headcanon, the Ayleids survived in Cyrodiil as a very small minority and most of their cities were settled by the former slaves. There'd be more of them in north Valenwood while the ones escaping to High Rock would probably disappear in the already mixed upper class.

>who populates Stormhold and Gideon, two cities formed by the Ayleids?
I believe Stormhold, Gideon, and Blackrose are for the most part Cyrodiilic (or Imperialized) settlements, as their lore tends to center them around prison facilities constructed by the Empire.

Nah, there's Argonian-built cities. Their giant pyramids and temple-complexes just have a tendency to sink into the swamp after a couple of centuries.

Considering, as you mentioned, that Riverhold is a merchant city, as well as how the Weald also borders Valenwood (and we know that Cyrodiil is the biggest exporter of lumber to the province), it's probably a fairly cosmopolitan area, plus factoring in all the goods they produce like wine/how much of it is vineyards.

Rimmen is actually one of the places in Tamriel with the most Akaviri influence, alongside historic sites in Cyrodiil and Skyrim. There's an Akaviri constructed shrine there called the Tonenaka with 10,000 statues.

>I can't really picture Argonian cities.
Whichever one the Imperials constructed is built up around those ruins.

Re: Rimmen

It was at times established as a kingdom independent to the rest of the Ne Quin-al, and probably had a heavy Imperial presence considering the Numidium was once housed there.

Apart from Province: Cyrodiil, another great place for more ideas for Cyrodiil is imperial-library.info/content/weird-cyrodiil-mod
Especially this one post that goes a bit more in detail about various cities in the Nibenay region:

Mud Duchies:

Sardaf - Harcane's Grove, Ft. Variela - Alessia's birthplace; epicenter of the popular revolts and minotaur problems. Home to The Chantry's Waterthief Cenacle, the Cult of The Cosmic Cow, and the Cult of the Savior-Dreugh. Their emblem is Morihaus Rampant. Reigning Doge is Alvus Calvaluna.

Bravil - in situ and extending throughout what I'm calling Bawn bay - The shipbuilding center of Cyrod and home to the Imperial Navy Arsenal. Rife with sailors and their diseases. Home to the Benevolence's Motherfane, the Blood-river Bullfrog Cult, and the Cult of the Centaur. Regulus Terentius isn't from Battlemage stock and that drives them crazy to the point of conspiracy.

Leyawiin - in situ and extending to cover the Niben delta without actually interrupting it - Fundamentally a Khajiit settlement with Nibenese palaces and battlements. Home of the Cult of the Panther, the Dolphin Cult, and Azura's Cult. Skooma and Sugar flows like water in the local Eyelid. It's the first port of call on the Niben and is heavily fortified against pirate attacks. Doge Marius Caro plans to kill his ditzy new bride and lay blame on the Mercenary's Grin.

Mytheria - overtop Fort Redman and Arpenia and straddling the opposite shore - Center of Publishing and Commercial Silk Production, except a recent and very mysterious infestation of blighted Veloth moths is putting the hurt on that industry. Golden-row neighborhood is lined with Altmer fashion houses. Home to The School's Cocoon Academy, Nocturnal's cult, and The Cult of the Ancestor Moth. Their emblem is a Moth and Spindle. The Doge is Toshara Rucuniil (the Mytherian Dogeship is preferentially matrilineal).

1/2

Vengheto - overtop Wendelbek and the Forts Gold-Throat and Red Water - Center of Metal Refinement and Production. Half of all Ebony mined in Morrowind is bound for here. Historically the Empire's armory, it's reputation has slipped in recent years due to Tharn allowing the City's Armorer's Guild contract with the Legion to expire. Now they face serious competition from Orsinium. Definite Kothringi aesthetic. Home to The Resolution's Underforge, The Cult of The Dream Tiger, and The Cult of the Clam-Snake. Their emblem is two water jugs on a yoke. The Doge is Orbius Minglumire.

Artemon - overtop Nenalata, Cadlew Chapel, and Fort Grief - 'New Artaeum'; home to both the Mage's Guild's Undercampus (for those who couldn't get into the Arcane University) and the Battlemage College's Cadlew Basilica. Psjiic architecture and magickal utilities proliferate. Home to the Solarium of Magnus, Peryite's Cult, and the Cult of The Invisible Crab. Non-mages are second class citizens. Emblem is stylized/disguised Daedric Ayem. The reigning Mediator is Pentia Bazanothon.

Orno - overtop Nornal, Wenderbek, and Ft. Sejanus - Center for commerical alchemical production, mass-produced potions and rice brandy and such. Home of the Temple's Plenary Gardens, The Cult of The Rainbow Crane, Vaermina's cult, and a community of evangelical Nerevarists. Next to the docks is the Orno Foyada, a shanty-town of recent Ashlander immigrants. They work the drudge-jobs in the big distilleries and consequently bootlegging and drunkenness is a major problem in their enclave. Emblem is a flaming retort. The Doge is Zenobius Voria.

2/3 (because I couldn't fit thirty more letters)

Mir Corrup - overtop Ft. Entius - Former playground of the rich and famous; Now hemorrhaging business to Senchal and Rubicae. Suffering an epidemic of Greenlung. Fugitive slaves from Morrowind flock here, the locals blame them for bad business and the plague. Home to The House's Pagoda of Moans, the Cult of the Golden Rat, the Cult of the Fox-in-the-Moon, Sanguine's Cult, Boethia's Cult, and the Flesh-Fly Cult. Emblem is a fountain. The Doge is Arcladio Curio.

The ideal Cyrodiil is part that thread, part Temple Zero Society, part Province: Cyrodiil and a tiny, tiny bit of Oblivion.

Is there any lore on viking-esque Nord/Colovian raiders pillaging other lands? Or just pirate lore I guess.

Yeah, a little bit. But not much.

There's a lot more pirate lore in the Abecean. Heck, the entire game Redguard.

This might seem like an odd question, but what does an ash yam taste like? I've always imagined it tastes like a sweet potato with a hint of wasabi.