Werewolves, and really lyncanthropes in general, are lame...

Werewolves, and really lyncanthropes in general, are lame. They're essentially just classic vampires but worse in every way.

Is there any way to salvage them as an interesting monster, instead of just a self insert wank for furries?

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Make them social creatures who live in loving, nuclear families like actual wolves tend to do in the wild.

>le ebin werewolves furries comparison XD

Give them actual wolf mentality (packs, alpha/omega, and whatnot) Make the transformation painful, no rape; just killing/eating, either make them turn only during the time the moon is out or make them weak enough but still strong to turn anytime.

It's ether furry or a shitty, redneck/hippie version of vampires that are your go to portrayals

>alpha/omega
Except wolves don't have any of that, they've been proven to be a communal family, with no leader

>getting drug off into the dark is lame
>having slightly fewer people in the village every month is lame
>having a loving wife lean in to kiss her husband, then tear out his throat snarling and chewing as her teeth stretch and grow is lame
>inflicting horrible wounds on the creature only to have it inexplicably return.
>waking up in the morning covered in the gore of your children is lame

You clearly need to get back into classical werewolves and away from Twilight you furry fucking fag

This guy gets it, orginal werewolves were scary and great, shit like twilight and furries is what ruins them, but honestly you have to be pretty dense to not see all the good stuff

>They're essentially just classic vampires
Are you baiting or just uneducated yokel?
Vampires were spawned from werewolves, not the other way around. Check ancient myths of any culture - bloodsucking creatures of the night, with peculiar undead motif were also universally werecreatures. The word vampire comes from proto-slavic/turkic word for half-bear/half-man undead creature and the concept itself steams from the cults of witches and mages, who claimed to possess shape-shifting abilities and drank blood in their rituals. Even if we are speaking about generic modern tropes, how exactly they are the same? Modern bloodsucking fags do not transform anymore, even in bats, less beastly in behavior, but with more undead traits. When vampires went down to sextoys for teenage goth girls, werewolves still posses the concept of the curse and monstrous shtick.
>self insert wank for furries
Oh, so you are an uneducated yokle after all. Refer back to then. Problem clearly not in the werewolves, but in you - you're just too narrow minded and can only think in petty cliches of contemporary culture.

I love when werewolves are portrayed as unstoppable engines of destruction or insidiously slow village killers.

this.

if you don't like furries, don't invite them to play in your games ya fuckin doof.

How are they like classic vampires, exactly?

this

the alpha/omega myth needs to die

>Werewolf
- Turns into a wolf
- Only active at night and during the full moon
- Eats people
- Impossibly strong
- Those that are bit by a werewolf can become werewolves themselves
- Either tries to blend into human society or lives secluded in the woods
- Very arbitrary weaknesses to surprisingly common things

>Classical vampires
- Can turn into a wolf, or a bat, or just mist. Or some other shit depending on what exact myths you're talking about
- Only active at night
- Drinks blood of people
- Generally impossibly strong
- Those bit by a vampire can become vampires themselves
- Either tries to blend into society or lives secluded in a castle in the woods
- Very arbitrary weaknesses to surprisingly common things

werewolves are just vampires that have less abilities, aren't active as long and have a messier way of eating. them being distinct is only something that's happened relatively recently.

man that's some serious historical revisionism

>this
Werewolves are one of the best horror monsters out there.
They're easy to kill in human form, but it's hard or impossible to tell who is one, leading to rampant paranoia.

They could be your wife, your child, your aging grandmother, or even yourself, and you might not know.

and THEY might not know, depending on the setting

Yeah but on the other hand one is an unhallowed corpse returning from the dead to prey on the living at night and returning to its resting place during the day and the other is a living man cursed to turn into a predatory animal at the full moon and resume his normal life afterwards. You can make everything sound similar if you're vague enough. The point about arbitrary weaknesses is especially broad to the point of uselessness. I think fae creatures live in the woods, come out at night, and are harmed by iron? Same shit.

You could possibly reason or bargain with a vampire, you can't necessarily do that to a feral manbeast.

Werewolves also don't wait for an invitation to enter your home, come to think of it.

>he doesn't know Bisclavret
>he doesn't know Prince Vseslav of Polotsk

You don't even have to make them mindless beasts to make them good, just draw on the classics.

>with no leader
Go fuck yourself, the pair that breeds (the parents, the alpha pair) are the leaders.

This and a whole lot of other weakenesses arent' present in werewolves.
Running across the river wont help you.
Neither will the wooden cross.

Hell, if you go with the idea that the bite is infectious, the whole village could be turned, and by the time you realize it, it's too late.

I've always wanted a werewolf movie where the creature's not a hulking beast, but a conniving shapeshifter, and the suspense is all about the paranoia and the slow burn.

>I have a shit opinion the post.

Even the silver bullet is relatively new. 1890's, if I recall?

If I recall correctly, the Beast of Gevaudan was hunted and killed with silver bullets, so no, it's much older.

Vampires have more weaknesses and more humanity. I feel like with a vampire you have some kind of chance

>>Werewolf
>- Very arbitrary weaknesses to surprisingly common things

So silver?


>>Classical vampires
>- Very arbitrary weaknesses to surprisingly common things depending on what exact myths you're talking about

Garlic
Silver
Sunlight
Running Water
Confused by crossroads
Crucifix
Pathologic need to count sand/grains/small objects at doorsteps
Become deathly ill and weak when starved of blood
Wood stakes through the heart (doesn't even need to be wood in some versions)
Beheading (to be fair that'd probably fuck up a werewolf as well)
Have to be invited in

I reckon I got a better chance against a vampire than a werewolf with just the stuff around my place atm.
I find Vampires to be more horrifying opponents but werewolves to be more frightening and dangerous.

>more humanity
Which is weird because vampires are undead all the time but werewolves are humans most of the time.

I just looked that up. 1764-1767, huh? And then the novel recounting it was 1858... ah, here it is. Jean Chastel was supposedly the one who shot it.

>I reckon I got a better chance against a vampire than a werewolf with just the stuff around my place atm.
The thing is, it's new moon tonight. A werewolf is just an ordinary guy atm, while a vampire is strong as ever.

I like TES Werewolves. To be a lycan is to be locked in a perpetual struggle between man and the monster that lies within man, the bestial instincts that drive people to rape and murder. A Lycan can in fact be conscious and control himself, but he must have a righteous will, one able to subjugate the beast within and control his inhibitions without the slightest crack in his determination.

But the weak-willed, they succumb to blood-lust and the thrill of the hunt, degenerating to the point that they become nothing more than animals. Eventually they don't even change back to humans, the beast blood takes over completely and they are permanently caught in the form of the monster.

Sure, like every vs. thread it comes down to environment and circumstances. Even white room battles rely on some assumptions.

>They're essentially just classic vampires but worse in every way.
CLASSIC Werewolves are essentially just classic vampires but worse in every way, as they can only turn into a wolf-wolf.

Modern werewolves have hybrid forms like your pic OP.

Where did you get all this about TES werewolves?

I wonder if you could produce a 'harmless' werewolf in TES by simply giving the blood to an absolute coward and watching as his abject terror at everything does more to restrain the beast than any effort of will could.

It can't influence him if he's too busy screaming, right?

You might this movie called "Calvary" so. Not exactly about werewolf/shapeshifters, but a priest who's told he's going to be murdered, in confession. Through tradition of confession, the priest can't disclose the murderer's identity, and You're left trying to figure out who out of the strange enclave youre dropped into is the murderer in question.

Plus Brendan Gleeson is pretty great

Books and what's hinted at in dialogue and encounter events. The werewolves like the Companions are strong-willed warriors able to resist the bloodlust, probably why so few of the Companions are werewolves. But you often will run into people in the wild who have degenerated. They don't even know who they are, don't wear clothes, and can randomly shift at any notice.

>To be a lycan is to be locked in a perpetual struggle between man and the monster that lies within man, the bestial instincts that drive people to rape and murder. A Lycan can in fact be conscious and control himself, but he must have a righteous will, one able to subjugate the beast within and control his inhibitions without the slightest crack in his determination
>press Z to transform whenever, you're in full control

Genius.

I keep hearing praises for that movie so I guess I'll have to get around to watching it.

Well it's not like the wolf within can overcome your FREAKING DRAGON SOUL.

Also. Werevolves aren`t so much a creature more of a condition or you know... a curse. They are an affliction that is meant to hinder or hurt people.
Due to they`re heavy restrictions often imposed on werewolf transformations like states, they are probably better off being listed under the disease section of the Dungeon Master Guide (or whatever books your preferred game system uses), rather the Monster Manual.

(White wolf gets the exception but mostly because it's their vampires that are such a deviation from the norm.)

I keep forgetting that you play as a split personality of a schizophrenic God of Time.

Unless, of course, you are a prince of the Rus, who protects his lands in the form of the wolf.

Or, you know, the Hounds of God thing.

I don't mind werebeasts who's able to retain if just a slight amount of self-control. But they're not allowed to be the majority of werebeasts.

Vseslav the Sorcerer wasn't a werewolf in the same sense. He was, well, a sorcerer. A shapeshifter. An animagus if you wish.

Didn't that involve some dudes being able to turn into wolves to murder demons in hell?

Your freaking dragon soul can even dominate fucking daedra.

>Daedra are the most dangerous of enemies and devastated much of tamriel in the oblivion crisis
>Beat them so hard even their new bodies bear bruises.

It makes sense considering what a dragon soul is.

Yes.

Technically I have to accept that.

Makes you wonder what Akatosh was thinking, huh?

Its pretty good, not that exciting but a great watch

>what was akatosh thinking

Akatosh is kind of a dick. This has been established numerous times. Fell bad for the Dragon soul that got itself forced into a human body. What did Dovahkiin do to get himself stuck in a human body.

Akatosh isn't just a dick, he's genuinely insane.

I'm amazed the world continues to function properly.

>getting drug off into the dark is lame

Just like criminals are hanged and Parliament is hung, people are dragged and cocaine is drug

Traditional folk tale werewolves are nothing like movie werewolves.

Little red riding hood was originally about a girl that gets raped by a werewolf and is a morality story about not trusting strangers.

Werewolves can be created by all sorts of different means in folklore, such as wearing a belt made of wolfskin, or performing a ritual whilst wearing a wolf pelt, or drinking from the water collected in the pawprint of a wolf.
The old werewolf trope was more akin to an evil shapeshifter who chooses to become an evil savage creature and is a direct metaphor for rapists and murderers.

>Parliament
Is that a person?

>Little red riding hood was originally about a girl that gets raped by a werewolf
It wasn't.

Legally speaking, it might be.
UK law is wonderfully archaic, I love it so much

Oh, I thought it was hung in the, well, physiological sense.

perhaps not in the Grimm version. But like all of the stories in Childrens and household tales, the original story far predates the book. Folk tales about a girl in red being led astray by a wolf existed all over Europe before the Grimm brothers decided to publish.
The tone varies from, a little girl bravely tricks a hungry wolf all the way to, a woman has sex with a wolf and tries to trick her grandma into thinking she was attacked when she finds out.

Only if they commit treason!

suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/33071790/
>I find werewolves to be one of the dullest of mythical creatures.
>The entire city of Paris had to fight a WAR vs a pack of wolves (with a leader that had blood red fur) in the middle of said city and finally took them down in front of the steps at Notre Dame and this is AFTER the things killed 40 people.
>Rome does have some ties to wolves. Romulus and Remus being raised by a she-wolf. That one fertility holiday called lupercalia.
>It's worth noting that most werewolf myths and folktales seem to depict a person who just turns into a wolf. Not a particularly big wolf, and not a horrible wolf-human hybrid, just a wolf. One wolf, without a pack, was not a particularly huge threat even in the middle ages. It's what the werewolf chose to do with this ability that was sinister. You could get away with a lot if the locals just blamed things on animal attacks, and not on you.

primitivism.com/hellhounds.htm
>Hellhounds, Werewolves and the Germanic Underworld

mikemonaco.wordpress.com/tag/werewolves/
>but we should also count swan-mays (women who turn into swans using a coat of feathers; they are sometimes identified with Valkyries too
>and the aforementioned were-whale
>The Celtic tribe called the Neruii or Neruians (I think that’s what the Romans called them?) were thought, by the ancient Greeks, to turn into wolves for a period every year.

I always like the idea that wolves don't like Werewolves much either.
None of this commanding the pack shit, wolves see a werewolf and think "this fucker might look like a wolf, but fuck me do they smell wrong, gg I'm out" They might even attack if they think they have a decent chance of success.

Consequently, a sign that a werewolf is behind mysterious attacks on a village is a conspicuous lack of wolf packs in an area.

I'm 90% sure this is stolen from Terry Pratchett

>I'm amazed the world continues to function properly

But It's don't. The place is complete insane

What I meant by that is that I expect it to be even worse.

I like the versions in Kill Puppies For Satan. The description was something like "They're not nature spirits. They're not wounded lost souls. They're personifications of man's inhumanity to man and they will fuck your shit up."

Make werewolves something people become if a werewolf bites them while they have a Karl Panzram level of contempt for others. Then they go about their life, but sometimes transform into lone sadistic killing machines who can't be tracked or killed. Also, make it clear that they ENJOY this. No "abloo bloo I'm a monster". No "I am the soul of the wild awoooo". Make them unnatural monsters born from evil inherent in a person.

Nothing happens to normal people who get bit by werewolves. They just bleed a lot.

I know the story quite well, thank you, there were no werewolves in it. There was a wolf who killed the girl's grandmother, put on her clothes, ate some of her meat, tricked the girl into eating some, invited her to get naked and lie down with him, killed her and ate her too. The Perrault's version published before the Grimm brothers removed the cannibalism. The Grimm brothers removed the rape themes and added the happy ending.

Honestly the "abloo abloo I'm a monster" bit isn't too far from what you describe. As in, it's an allegory for the sort of person who's downright sadistic when in a rage, but otherwise a decent person.
Honestly, I think Werewolves can represent that rage and anger that exists within us all, that makes us say and do things we later regret. Surely we've all had moments where we've cared for nothing but seeing another *hurt*, and even enjoyed it at the time?

Maybe only people who have a particular proclivity toward sadism can become werewolves, but people for whom it's not just an "in the moment" thing, like you describe, become the most evil and deadly beasts?

All I remember from Pratchet is that werewolves are basically a human and a wolf put together, so most of them end up behaving like something made from that mixture. That is, like dogs.

I think it was from the one with her family in it?Where they were in Uberwald?
Also CarrotXAngua best couple

Maybe I wasn't clear with "Karl Panzram levels of contempt for others". That's not getting angry. That's not intermittent explosive disorder. That's not "sad domestic abuser".

I was basically describing a serial killer. I explicitly named a serial killer. The imagery of a predatory animal fits because such people are predators, and much of the time it seems that their pathology is inherent, natural. Only like fifty out of 300,000 people would be sick enough to become a werewolf. They wouldn't even necessarily have ever hurt anyone, but lycanthropy gives them the ability to do so and easily get away with it. It's a serial-killing enabler.

Yes, because they are the parents of the other members. It's a family unit you fucking mongoloid.
A wolf pack is made up of the "Alphas" and their children, that's it.

Sorry friend, I overlooked that part.
After looking up quickly looking up Panzram, I only have one question how many furry sodomies can you include before getting accused of magic realm?

There may be alphas' brothers and sisters in the pack and they are subordinate to the alphas. They don't really have thier own "ranks", at least not strictly defined, but they will act submissively towards alphas and they will not mate.

Not posting from my phone anymore, so I can be more verbose. I won't. But I can. But I won't.

You can get away with it plenty if their penises become knotted. Not like a dog dick. Their penises literally tie themselves in knots. While inside of their victim.

Also occasionally (and with the right circumstances) unrelated wolves may join the pack, and they will act submissively towards pretty much everyone.

Zombies, and really reanimated corpses in general, are lame. They're essentially just classic vampires but worse in every way.
>Is there any way to salvage them as an interesting monster, instead of just a self insert wank for furries?

Here is the big difference between classic vampire and classic werewolves.
Vampires stories are always from the perspective of the people hunting them or living under them. Because a Vampire is aware of what it is doing.
Classic Werewolves
Always have some perspective of the person turning into the werewolf.
And how they are never aware of the horrible carnage they inflict.

Also while Classic Vampires have HUGE overtones of sexuality. Classic Werewolves were actually more about alcoholism and rageaholics.

The Knot aside, your idea is pretty neat.
I think it'd be fun for my players to think the werewolf is a guy in a tragic situation, but no, he's really just an asshole.

I really disliked that movie, plus idk if that is littlefinger's real accent or what but its crazy

So, you have the alphas, their children which are below alpha status. then the random outcast wolves that are not alphas and are lower than alpha children. I wonder what they describe that as?

Redheaded step-children

It's the parents, the kids, and the kids' BF/GFs who the parents don't like.

literally a standard american nuclear family

Nope. Stop ramming your "proven" head canon into nature.

>Muh Alpha Omega family structure is true
>Despite it being studied in fucking zoo animals.

was it stated if they ever did it during her time of the month?

I like my werewolves as unstoppable, uncontrollable and rampaging murder machines that can't be reasoned with. Even vampires, for all their powers, will be shredded into tiny ash-colored bits the moment they get in physical contact with one.

>alpha/omega
Not actually a thing, although the parents can be viewed as 'alphas' they aren't really as a threat to the 'alpha' is dealt with by the whole group not in a display of dominance and submission. A strange wolf appears or elder child gets uppity and the pack will work as a group to subdue/bite him.

>loving, nuclear families

Don't actual wolf fathers kill their daughters if they're caught mating - WHILE they're mating?

Do werewolves/lycanthropes even have to have anything to do with wolves/canines?

Just because they look like a cross between man and wolf might be why they're called werewolves (=literally ''manwolves''), but do they always have to be cursed/shapeshifting people and not a species of their own in no way related to either sapiens or canines?

No, they just shoo off the male and may or may not kill resulting cubs. Some just don't care and let it happen

You know the moon had nothing to do with werewolves until the 20th century. One movie does it and suddenly all werewolves are moon mad and silver weak

And they functions as leaders. user wasn't wrong

Werewolves aren't supposed to be monsters. They're supposed to live clandestinely within the human society and hide their terrible secret. So, not similar to a vampire in any way. More like a fantasy version of a serial killer.

But that's how people do vampires...
Is this some bizarre attempt at trolling?

>but do they always have to be cursed/shapeshifting people

That's pretty much part of the definition. If you want humanoid wolfmen as its own species then that'd be its own, separate thing.

I've always envisioned an extinct race of Cynocephalic people, similar in appearance to the egyptian deity Anubis, from whom younger, lesser races have descended, like lycans, gnolls, kobolds etc.

Wolf packs don't have alphas, this is long outdated info, they are a family unit with equal say in most things (except the children)

>- Very arbitrary weaknesses to surprisingly common things
>silver
I suggest you stop playing Dnd, at least where I come from them not being able to cross water & being repelled by some specific plants are a well-known thing