Warmachine / Hordes General - /wmhg/

Doing shit like that prevents burnout. ECW and grind are things they do on their lunch breaks.

So menoth is the only faction that can bring two spam lists, Bring a hard counter to Amon or tristian and ban the other. GG no Re.

The problem is still the existence of spam lists. Seriously PP just put FA2 on all fucking jacks and beasts unless there's a reason not to.

>Threadly reminder to ignore the shitposters trying vainly to debunk "insider information" on Privateer Press.

Fabois will do anything to protect their precious, even ignoring reality.

So go ahead and engage, you might learn something useful and relevant.

>access to all the models of every faction
>access to unreleased and concept models and themes well in advance
>getting paid money to play the game
I mean... how could you ever burn out on this game in that position? I think I'd burn out playing "stand our two 120mms next to each other and shout wrestling memes" after the first day.

...

I mean every Miniatures company is dying right, I've seen it in every 40k/30k/infinity/Warhammer/Warmahordes thread i have ever seen, until the company is gone this Hersey is useless.

Not everyone understands how to have fun. It's fine. Some people like yourself can only imagine playing super srs wargames and can't imagine people who like silly games for fun.

The only Una2 counter Khador has is Sorscha1 with infantry spam, which seems like a terrible list to use against literally anything else.

And in 3 list, they can just ban it. Sure, you can ban Una2, but what happens if they ban your Wurmwood Counter and just bring Wurmwood?

It all bogs down to mindgames anyway, so I honestly don't think 2-list or 3-list makes a difference in terms of play, but I think 3-list in unnecessarily confusing and kind of discouraging.

I mean, why buy and paint all these models for your Karchev/Una list if your opponent bans it every single time anyway?

Couple things:

- Amon is radically better than Tristan2 as a jackspammer. Like, there's no comparison. Synergy is better than Manifest Destiny once you get four jacks swinging, and Mobility is as key to Amon's bullshit as Synergy is, and Tristan2 has no real alternative. If you bring both running jackspam, you'll be dropping shitty, slow jackspam.

- The Protectorate jacks that are "stupid" with Amon are mediocre without him because of the lack of Mobility. The Protectorate jacks that are solid without Amon aren't that great with Amon (with the exception of the Templar) because either he doesn't benefit their shooting or can't take them in theme.

Amon is so good because he makes slow, efficient jacks move up the board reasonably well and gives them even more punching power. Same thing with pre-nerf Karchev and why Harkevich is now the scary Khador jackspammer. Tristan2 just doesn't have the speed fixing to do work with a lot of SPD 4 jacks.

Karchev works fine against Una2. 7-8 Heavies > 7-8 Griffons. Una does not have enough griffons to double up and crack Khador armor. More often than not they survive as she can't Primal/HOF everything. Your turn after their feat just have the others re-engage if one falls. Their next turn they can't manage all that fury, some frenzy, others are loaded up on fury.

Even with flank it is really hard for griffons to crack stuff like Devastators too.

Ok Mr. Hungerford I will buy a Desert Hydra. Thx for fun gamerino.

so what would happen if people filed down the flesh hooks on the detailed side to match the non-detail, making it look like just scales? I haven't seen the model in-person, so I don't know bad it ACTUALLY is, but isn't that an option? Not saying it's a good one, or that it should even HAVE to be an option, but is it a viable one?

playtesting isn't fun.

Playtesting is serious business if you want to do a good job on it.

carving into a mini to create definition is lot harder than filing things to make smooth.

I'm sure someone out there can and will do it, but the important question is why should they?

I'm pretty sure Will Pastrami had fun dunking the baddies at PP with his 26 Reptile Hound list his first day.

then trying to fix the issue becomes unfun, then you try again, and again, and again.

Also one playtester I know said that since playtests were done in bulk with unreleased models, just trying to figure out/understand what was happening in the match itself was frustrating.

>ranged warpwolf
>with drag and hunter
I want Loki to hook me and drag me in close.

And strike your rear arc?

>shady business practices
>poor workplace culture
Tell me about it, I'm new.
Or is it the case of PP being big enough that it's now cool to shit on them?

Jesus, get a fucking life? You are literally chasing threads around on an user board to defend a corporation?

You read like a jobless 300 lb faggot. You really need to reconsider your life.

No ones suggesting people don't still play the game. But all you have to do is visiting some of the employees (or now former employees) facebook pages to see that they just laid off a portion of their staff. I don't think its unreasonable to bring up the health of the company.

Jesus, get a fucking life? You are literally chasing posts around on an user board to criticize a game's fan?

You read like a jobless 300 lb faggot. You really need to reconsider your life.

Nah, they've done people wrong in the past (some user was linking the mcvey story which looked shitty).

PP has a hiring freeze, denied Christmas bonuses this year and just laid people off. Sounds healthy to me?

No, I'm not the user you were arguing with faggot. I came here to discuss Amon and you shit up the thread with your fan jerk again.

God this fucking community is CANCER.

Can you faggots not shit up another thread? People want to talk about the game, not your alleged drama.

And the enjoyability of ecw and grind has what to do with hiring freezes

No, I'm not the user you were arguing with faggot. I came here to discuss Warmahordes and you shit up the thread with your corporate drama again.

God this fucking shitposter is CANCER.

lol, this entire thread cracks me. Whichever one you are, you're literally autistic

Basically, ignore this entire thread. Every now and then, there's some good information, but most of the time it's these same shitposters roleplaying as PP employees or friends of employees making outrageous claims like there's mass firings without providing any shred of a plausible piece of evidence.

If you want to actually discuss the game, find your local meta's groupme/discord/facebook and use the Privateer Press forums. This is just a shitpost circlejerk.

lol, this entire poster cracks me. Whichever one you are, you're literally autistic

No, I'm not the user you were arguing with faggot. I came here to discuss Warmahordes and you shit up the thread with your corporate drama again.

God this fucking shitposter is CANCER.

The PP forums are censored, they take down any negativity. They should be fixing their game and sculpts instead of playing KGB.

Size doesn't matter, the issue is that PP has had bad reputation as a business with distinct people to point fingers to for quite a while. Let's face it. Can you think of any company big or small where at least 5 people can be pointed to having bad reputations?

If you want to shit on it based on size, models would be the one you would point to. The fact that companies smaller than them or kickstarters are providing higher quality material miniatures should be of major concern.

>tfw i really like level 7

Mods for most communities are volunteers. They don't take down constructive criticism, but yeah, you can't post like you're on Veeky Forums there.

But thanks to mods you don't get faggots derailing threads over some inane bullshit or insult wars.

Not every public forum can work like Veeky Forums does, man.

They don't out and out censor negative content, only people being shitheads. You can do it here, but you can't do it there.

Learn to write your views with an eye for the atmosphere you're writing into.

Nah, just new ones creep up.

The shut down any objection to PP's price fixing policy hard. That's what made me stop posting on their forum desu

They censor direct criticism to PP.

You can be shitting and raging on models all you want. I shat on models for months with no problem. It's when I started saying that PP has messed up that I got banned. Also discussing bans will also get things censored.

Yeah I remember that thread. It got derailed hard and the mods locked it since it started turning into a thinly-veiled flame war.

They weren't shutting down discussion of the policy, just shutting down shitheads being shitheads.

>start insulting people
>surprised why he got banned

Should do like league of legends, attach the post that got you banned and let us judge you. Failure to do so is an admittance of your mistake.

funny you mention that as there's a second thread up and running talking about it
probably gonna get locked because it was originally about how 40k is cheaper model per model

They shadow ban, then tell people to post to themselves so they can determine if the shadowban should be lifted.

I'm not joking.

...

...

considering that offending post has been deleted/mod edited, can't help you there unfortunately.

That's high level meme autist

man, it's good to see lightning bolt printed again.

Burn causes the most butthurt. It's a good reprint :^)

I want my hordes of Knights Exemplar Again, Crusaders of Sul theme list when?
DEUS VULT, because it can't be WH with out memes

Except they're internal playtestimg is terrible anyway because that's not how they play usually. So, better they spend time on other stuff that keeps them excited about the game and away from major balance decisions.

This 100%. Whether it's tabletop or vidya, running tests all the time is incredibly tediusus work usually. You're job is to dig carefully look for anything that moght be broken and then try to force it a dozen times in order to be sure it is busted, then after they fix it, run it another dozen times to see if the fix holds.

Honestly, the Christmas bonus thing makes sense to me. With the announcement of MK 3 and how much they dropped the ball when it launched, I'd be amazed if the company could afford to give bonuses to a small part of its employees much less the entirety of the company. Sure it sucks for the low level guys who couldn't have prevented it, but sometimes that's life.

>tediusus
>You're job
>moght
>testing is hard
>so is proofreading own posts

>FA
>helping
Not this shit again.

>PP has a hiring freeze, denied Christmas bonuses this year and just laid people off. Sounds healthy to me?
Now if there was any semblance of source on any of those that would really help your point.

>They censor direct criticism to PP.
Funny that they never seem to delete my posts and I can get very critical. Seems I just know how to write a post without every other word being "faggot" or "nigger".

Since scorne errata came out, does Legion became 2nd worst force in hordes behind trolls? Also rate list:

War Room Army

Legion of Everblight - Kryssa 10 pts

Theme: No Theme Selected
10 / 10 Army

Kryssa, Conviction of Everblight - WB: +31
- Angelius - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17)
- Angelius - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14)

Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1

Hellmouth - Hellmouth & 3 Tentacles: 6

>post something along the lines of why would there be an 19 point unit that bounces off of arm 17, maybe it needs some improvement
>a few people agree
>immediately a mod comes, tells you to refrain from unconstructive criticism and/or to keep it civilized and closes the thread.

What exactly makes Soles so powerful that everybody tiptoes around his decisions making PP into his private safespace? Without DC hungenford is the last competent person there and that is a stretch.

>What exactly makes Soles so powerful
If I had to guess I'd say it's the morningly bath in enchanted virgins' blood.

>virgins
>in Seattle

>Veeky Forums stuff
>not virgin filled

Soles bleeds himself.

Soles is actually really good at his job. Warmachine is balanced extremely well, despite Veeky Forums and the forums bitching. It's just too bad he's a fucking weirdo

>Warmachine is balanced extremely well,

Dude, no. Only a handful of models ever see play beyond casual play. Every faction has models that have strictly better options in-faction. Hell, some factions only get by at tournament level by virtue of being carried by a small handful of models.

Seattle is filled with beta numale virgins.

Females are turbosluts.

Yeah how many tournies a week do you play?

90% of the games people play are casual.

Even in casual play the problem exists. There's a ton of models you're crippling yourself with, because you have a stronger option that does the same thing in the same faction. That's not well balanced.

Plus, while it certainly isn't the greatest, tournament play is at least a decent indicator for balance. Only see one or two units show up in almost every list regardless of caster? That shows a lack of viable options which is usually a symptom of poor balance.

>per week

Interesting career choice.

>Game is balanced

All told it's not that bad, but this meta shifts really fast. With the themes out now there was a lot of toss up. Also, they injected a significant amount of anti gunline stuff, not directly into cards but with themes etc. The amount of sac pawn, shield guard, more free support (that last one is iffy, because you just have some more models to attrit).

But Skorne had some really bad issues, they said they were already balanced, just not fun . Then they almost universally saw buffs. Cygnar is still Haley 2 and storm lances: the faction. Cryx may have a bit more than people are giving them credit for, but their units are fairly overcosted compared to the super efficient workers that khador or ret has access to.

That doesn't stop people from playing with other units. Not everything is going to see tournament play. Every champion in League doesn't see tournament play. Some things are going to be better than others regardless of how much balancing is done. But it doesn't matter if certain models don't see play beyond "casual play" because most of the games customers are playing are casual play games, and those one or two tournaments a year they decide to go to.

I'm not saying that PP shouldn't be balancing everything all the time. But to say it's woefully unbalanced is just false. That's a better claim for the 40k thread. :^)

Hey man, Cygnar also has Haley3

You know not once have I seen a Haley2+Storm Lance list at my locals.

It's like people play with other casters they like or something.

But then cuddles could happen

I am a competitive player and yes if you want to win at all cost there are just a bunch of stuff that are too good to pass up in every Faction.

But I have to admit that sometimes this is an exageration, I mean there are shitty model, but when you read on the forum or here it's seems like there are only OP and shitty choice with nothing in between.

That not true, every time I play with my friends on friday night it not uncommon that someone play the "underperforming" unit/combination that in reality works really well on the field.

A lot of people don't uderstand the game and are just struck with internet opinion. SOmetimes an army has an axcellent choice that don't see play because of meta, but for people that don't see it on torunament list it's automatic shit.

You want some example ?

Ravyn will of the nine voice, everybody consider that Tier shit then in the last year of MK2 was of the most played list, but it could have been done a lot of year before, but no one took the time cause no one bringed it to tournament.

Pagani Vlad list with Assault kommando (?) the guys with the flamthrower, they were shit for all the edition than WIll bring it to a tournament and placed really well (if not first, but I can't remember).

The truth is that too many people talk about the game instead of playing it.

>But Skorne had some really bad issues, they said they were already balanced, just not fun
What they said was that Skorne was "internally balanced"... which I don't totally agree with, but it doesn't imply they were balanced well against other factions. Thus the buffs.

What they meant is pretty obvious - they looked at Skorne just like all the other factions in Mk2. They toned down the "problem" models, like Molik, and hit print. This strategy had mixed results, because not all factions were on the same footing at the end of Mk2, and not all factions relied on their OP models to the same extent. Skorne was in a particularly bad place, because they were among the weakest factions at the end of Mk2, they had a number of models (and tier lists) they crutched on, and they relied on minions that also got nerfed.

In the aggregate, this meant Skorne ended up in a very bad place. They were maybe internally balanced, in the sense that you'd have a balanced game if everyone was playing Skorne... but not against other factions. The buffs they got this month were what they SHOULD have got during the Mk3 transition, and probably would have if PP did more testing.

It's pretty obvious from everything that's come out since, that the end of the Mk3 development cycle was rushed. The devs have admitted they would've liked to have as much as another year to work on it, but from the outside looking in, it's pretty obvious the business side pushed for an earlier release date. This in turn resulted in all the the post release damage control, up to an including the recent change to how they're releasing their rules.

He can chain me down and call me a bad dog all he wants.

And handholding.
And eventually horrible rape.

That's true, but when talking about balance it doesn't matter that everyone can play what they like.

Also true, but you have to ask, if only a tiny number of models ever see play beyond casual tables, is the faction really balanced? Balance means options and variety.

>tfw when I play Skorne and had to listen to the endless torrents of "BUT YOU HAVE OPTIONS NOW" at my LGS after the errata when I continued to use my same old lists and they didn't get why
Sure we have more warlocks now but the only other option we got is a choice between Nihilators or Swordsmen.

what options do you really need beyond two?

Circle can play OP tree or OP bird lady. those are your options :^)

>it's pretty obvious the business side pushed for an earlier release date.
Honestly, I'm glad they did even with the faults of MK3.

2015 was a pretty stagnant and mediocre year for the game. The six months leading up to the L&L with MK3 were probably the worst months of the game line. "Maybe four people showing up if you're lucky" bad. There was a point where I was starting to regret having purchased into this game despite having played it for the better part of 8 years. I had that 40K regret.

Since MK3 dropped, my local stores have had every wargaming table full of people playing WMH on its game night with the occasional trenchcoat-wearing fedoralords playing Malifaux in the corner. After the Skorne errata, one night had a third the two dozen or so people we had playing Skorne in some fashion.

Rushed, incomplete, rife with errors, whatever the case, it's done a lot more good for the game than bad. Hopefully the Community Development project can fix what's fallen through the cracks.

I'm at least 80% sure that there are other Circle casters that can be competitive, people just aren't using them. Please tell me what's wrong with:
>Mohsar
>Kaya2
>Kromac2
>Kreuger2

Maybe you should stop playing your Mk2 lists then.

I need a little help guys. My friend started to play Cephalyx and he's getting a little disheartened because he keeps losing to me and my Khador (mostly due to the fact that I'm using him as a testing dummy for my highly tuned spike lists and because I have way more experience than him).

So I thought about building a more casual list to play just for him, until he fully understands/learns what his army is capable of and gets better at the actual game.

Any idea what I should build to have some fun games with him? My collection:
- Sorscha1
- Sorscha2
- Vlad1
- Old Witch
- Irusk2
- Harkevich
- Butcher3
- Kozlov
- 3 Destroyers
- 3 Juggernauts
- 2 Kodiaks
- 1 Decimator
- 1 Devastator
- 1 Spriggan
- Behemoth
- Ruin
- 1 Iron Fang Pikemen
- 1 Kayazy Assassins
- 2 units Eliminators
- 1 Winter Guard Rifles
- 1 Winter Guard Infantry
- 1 Greylord Ternion
- 1 Man-O-Wars
- Iron Fang Kovnik
- Man-O-War Kovnik
- Jozef Grigorovich
- Koldun Lord
- 2 Manhunters
- Yuri the Axe
- War Dog
- Ashley
- Eiryss1
- Kevin Bailoch
- Sylys whatyshysname

His Cephalyx lists are the Cognifex list (4 Wrecker, a bunch of squads and agigators) and the Thexus list (2 Wrecker, all infantry, 2 squads of free overlords).

I thought about using Old Witch theme, since she's a really sub-par caster, but I feel like she kind of counters his entire faction.

I'm not a furfag but werewolves are awesome. Also dem nipples.

Is it rape if I secretly want it?

Males can be virgins too

>You want some example ?
Here's a few more. Everybody said Doomy1 was shit for years, worst caster in the faction, even though Runes of War and all its key models had been out since Forces of Trollbloods. There was Kromac1 double stalker, again all the models had been there all along, and it just came out of left field. Kraye was another one everybody was always hating on that started taking trophies in the last couple years of Mk2. Hell, I had a Nemo1 (awful!) list for years with Thunderhead (waste of points!) and stormblades (the worst!) that I kicked a LOT of people's teeth in with.

>The truth is that too many people talk about the game instead of playing it.
Amen to that.

Yeah, that's fair. Obviously that's the side of the picture the business people were looking at. Our experience locally with Mk3 has also been very positive. Only point I was making is that if people are upset about the balance issues - we know the reason.