"I Can't Believe the Dungeon Master's Self Insert is the Main Villain!"

DMPCs are bad. But are DMMVs worse?

If they are the villain, you have the chance at kicking their asses.
DMPCs are supposed to be likeable in the GMs mind.

DMPCs are always worse.

The closest thing that I have to this is the overdramatic idiot who thinks he's in charge of the villains but is actually just another one of the true villain's tools.
He's competent in his own right, but he's also got more brains than sense and pretty much all of 'his' plans have been masterminded by his superior (in both senses of the word). .

This. If you try to get rid of a DMPC or even just tell him to eat shit you've pissed off the DM forever and he will probably make your characters suffer for it, he can't fault you for opposing the villain though.
Also I prefer a villain crafted with love than some throwaway Dark Lord clone.

>DMMVs
What does this stand for? DM's Main Villain?

Literally the first time I've ever seen it before.

Is this the BBEGsperg's doing?

I once played in a game where the DM's DMPC was literally a self-insert from our world who was immune to all magical effects because he didn't believe in magic.

Probably. Listening to him screech like a retarded 4 year old every single time "BBEG" is used gets kind of tiresome.

Meant to link to

I feel like though a DMMV(weird) implies the GM is still inappropriately attached to the character. If the BBEG is the GM's pet character then the plot will focus on him redeeming himself and becoming a DMPC. Or the GM only lets you engage him on his terms because he has the "perfect" climax for the story.

>feel like though a DMMV(weird) implies the GM is still inappropriately attached to the character
I think DMMV is meant to be a BBEG that the GM treats like a DMPC. It's also gender-neutral, which resolves one complaint about 'BBEG'.


Unrelated, but it feels like tabletop roleplaying acronyms are moving into an alphabet-soup kind of situation.

Are the belts above his knees purely decorative or do they actually tie together restricting his movement?

>It's also gender-neutral, which resolves one complaint about 'BBEG'

Nah, it stands for Dungeon Master's Male Villain. Now fuck off.

>It's also gender neutral
>not having a Big Bad Evil Girl as a villain

>shitting up threads to try and protect your pet acronym

You've become what you hate.

At least it's "our" acronym, not some shit someone is trying to force.

>poop self
>IT'S MY POOP NOT YOURS THAT MAKES IT BETTER
Ok?

Look pal, we have been eating shit for years around these parts. If you won't respect our culture you can kindly fuck off.

>"our"

You mean "your". Most people don't use it, and I'd laugh at anyone who tried to say it out loud.

If you say so, Pajeet.

>"our"

There you go again. Quit that, because that's what makes people who just sort of don't like the acronym start to very much dislike it.

Hay I found him!

I feel like something that would make "DMMVs" better is that villains are meant to fail, or at least serve a a surmountable obstacle to be overcome. PC's don't have that restriction, and DMPC's are entirely capable of being protected by plot armor and consistently outshining/outperforming the rest of the party for the entire game. It kinda seems like a non-issue.

If the main villain is a straight-up wanky self-insert for the DM, it might be worse, but for some reason I can't see it happening that easy. I can't envision someone being so asbergers that they would alienate their own players so blatantly. I haven't met someone who didn't understand that while villains can be tragic/understandable/have arguably good motives, they have to be an obstacle to overcome for good reasons. I don't know. I actually feel like a villain heavily influenced by the DM's sense of self that is still clearly supposed to be a villain might be kind of interesting, since it implies the DM has some awareness and understanding of their own flaws.

I can't really see villains being a self-insert for the DM, since the entire point of a BBEG in most games is to be the thing the party wants to murder the shit out of.

Not him, but I've seen it happen a few times.

Not only that but it's pretty common in fiction and especially genre fiction (including capeshit and animu/mango)

here. Neither of these posts has anything to do with what I'm saying. When I said "DMMV" I was just using OP's language, then extrapolating by saying it's a BBEG who is also the GM pet. I don't give a shit about abbreviations and was just trying to make a point if the GM's favored NPC is the villain then it won't be any kind of improvement over a regular DMPC

>DM uses a self-insert as the final boss
>to indulge his self-loathing
>he's dead by the time you actually find him and you have to fight his ghost
>after the battle you get treated to a description of how he killed himself
>and you remember just how hard a blow you dealt every time you thwarted one of his relatively non-threatening plans

Would you punch your DM or hug them?

>It's also gender-neutral, which resolves one complaint about 'BBEG'.

People who come in to gaming and got too much of that collaborative storytelling shit stuck in their brain often start off with retarded villains who they defend from all harm until they think it's time for the dramatic death.

What they were reacting to?

Honestly, my first planned campaign, if my players are able to kill the BBEG when they run into him, more power to them, I won't whine about it, and they'll probably feel pretty good.

At least before they discover the BBEG has about 10-20 identical copies of himself running around.

I do it often, just easier to humanize the BBEG that way. I prefer more "grounded" villains than the sterotypical twirling mustache villains.

ofc if we are just doing a one shot i'll do something simple

Reminds me of some old as fuck cartoon that was posted here. It was bullshit, but I don't remember the name.

You sound like some autist that just laughs at whomever he thinks is stupid for whatever they just said because you almost wet yourself at the idea that someone is more stupid than you
DMMVs I would suppose
I don't mind either or to be honest because its all about execution and handling that your character got fucked or stabbed in the back like a man

Hug him....I generally play with people I like so if I seen that I'd be crushed Its my damn job to hate myself not yours faggot, find another flaw to have

I don't understand why he's still here. It's become so ambient and routine that it fails as b8, he has to know that. If he's serious though, then he must be some kind of reality-denying hyperautist from Saturn.


Here's a little project for you: try doing some google searches for BBEG, and also look in the archive4plebs for the term. Have a look to see how far it goes back. I know you don't have the balls to do something that proves you wrong, but I know that this will eat away at you anyway. Enjoy. :)

I'd just laugh at him.

>a couple fags can speak for everyone
>thinks only one guy thinks "big bad evil guy" sounds dumb

Why go through so much effort to defend sounding like retards? Just go sound like retards and stop trying so hard to convince people you don't.

You should be glad people are willing to help you out and point out when you sound like fags, because if you didn't realize it when you said "big bad evil guy" for the first time, you need all the help you can get.

>getting this triggered over 4 letters
Kek at your sad life

>lololol jk you didn't kill him at all!

Nah. Better to have the party actually kill the villain and have them deal with the ensuing power vacuum. Turns out the second-in-command of the villain is way more ruthless than the guy you just killed.

Not so much that they didn't kill him. They did in fact kill him or one of his copies, it's just his plan involves turning people into copies of himself via a sort of magic virus, so one or two of them dying isn't that big a deal.

I'm planning on writing a story where my self-insert is the main villain and I'm actually afraid that I'm turning him into a Mary Sue, considering the dude is the smartest and strongest fag in the entire setting, even if he will end up kicking the bucket in the end.

I suppose that's fair since it's actually his plan and not just a GM fiat

Said clone plan originally came about because I wanted to be able to have him interact with the party while still allowing for the possibility of the party going "Fuck it, kill him" without throwing things off the rails.

Originally planning(though "no plan survives contact with the players" can apply) for why the bad guy keeps being able to be all over the place and sometimes be places after they kill him.

Even have some sleeper clones that are mental copies of him, but the physical change is forcibly held back so they can infiltrate easier.

The citizens of the small town the bad guy legitimately rules over are all sleeper clones, and were his first tests of the cloning virus. Them confronting the BBEG proper could quickly turn into a fantasy version of the Agent Smith fight from the second Matrix.

So Apocalypse?

mah man, they are just there to look cool. belts are fucking wicked m8

A celebrity said something incredibly liberal and stupid at an award ceremonies, Mel and Vince were astounded by how stupid it was, dont recall exactly what it was but it was something along the lines of
>Trump is evil and you should be ashamed for voting because my feelies

>wah someone said i sound dumb
>better say they're the one who is upset

My self-insert is a side-villain, they sometimes show in relation to other villains as their supplier, but don't do big evil schemes dirrectly.

Weird acronym (just brings YMMV to mind), but our current EP game has a case of this.

Our GM is a first-time GM, so I can forgive some things, but all in all, the character made by the GM as a sample character (probably a self-insert) has become our main antagonist / terrorist-but-not-actually-a-villain / story-revolves-around-whom-character.

Like, at the beginning of the game there was a 200-year timeskip (this after we started with a partial mindwipe three sessions before), in time of which said character has become someone important enough that Firewall tries to catch 'em. Which they haven't been able to, in 200 years.

(Don't mention the progress 200 years would have caused on the world, it didn't seem to even make a dent on the status quo).

Stop taking anti-BBEG guy's bait. Nobody is actually retarded enough to care about an acronym. However, plenty of people are retarded enough to want to rile up anonymous strangers.

Hell no, you're EXPECTED to get to stab that motherfucker in the eyes repeatedly until he dies.
DMPCs are supposed to be likeable, and you're not supposed to turn on them.

I have considered the possibility of running a DMPC before, make him utterly insufferable, and wait for the PCs to kill him, at which point he'll just die like a bitch. Just to see how long it'd take them.

DMMV.

What makes that different from a BBEG?

It's played by the same guy. Why use different names? BBEGs can be etchy aswell you swab.

Back to /trash/ with you.

You dumb fucks need to stop being so defensive about your pet term.

OP never tried to replace your precious phrase. He's talking about an evil self-insert equivalent to a DMPC.

You guys really need to stop being little children in everything you do.