Dota 2

Hey been playing Dota since it's inception:

Shit stuff-

The cross over between real life mythos (zeus) and in-game mythos (even if they have lore as to why it's like that)

Anything that promotes the universe only fighting over ancients or whatever. It's fuckin dumb honestly.

Good Stuff-

The comics. Everything about them.`
World creation
How good and evil are quite literally based on perception.

Did you know those character sheets are pieces of the moon?

For some reason both LoL and DOTA 2 have a not insignificant slice of heroes who go around barefoot. Especially noticeable with DOTA 2 because none of them did in the original DOTA.

Well you heard wrong good sir.

The comics have some good world building in them

Dota has fantastic world building

There just isn't that much of it yet. There's a map in the old tutorial but they got rid of that, and some old passages from the book from the older tutorial that mentioned things like the mad moon.

Then there's other stuff that doesn't link up well. Like Elder Titan fucked up when forging the world, which created the fundamentals, but some of the fundamentals like chaos knight exist in other planes, or came from the dawn of time like Ezalor.

Or how Ancient Apparition isn't technically a fundamental, is technically an elemental, but somehow represents the cold death of the universe

Stuff like Zeus doesn't really bother me, just because there's plenty of historical anachronisms that exist in all fantasy settings, like "barbarian" or other gods like Thor or Cthulhu

Everything!

I like that the ancients are essentially supergods, being far and above even Zeus. It really shows how mighty they are in comparison when Arc Warden, an ancient no longer at his prime, managed to casually restore some of Zeus' godhood.

Though the Fundamentals, including this thing, comes close to reaching that supergod status.

what about Timbersaw?
Can't really say I have seen that somewhere else.

Since the 4 fundamental forces had to exist at the beginning of time for the universe to form, wouldn't that mean ET made the universe by separating them?

The heroes? Some of them are rip offs of the Wc3 models but Valve changed a lot of them too. Besides most of the things that are ripped off are ripping off a generic tropes such as Broodmother being a gigantic spider or Dragon Knight being an armoured knight.

The abilities? Pretty sure Wc3 didn't have hooks to pull people in, throwing arrows, spellstealing, a guy with 10 different spells, and Meepo with his cloning ultimate.

Isn't it literally a reworked Warcraft 3 scenario?

Almost all the abilities got changed like crazy.

Warcraft 3 never had Pudge hook, Meepo Divided we Stand, etc.

And Warcraft orcs are literally stolen from Warhammer. Orcs from Dnd and Lotr were either pig men or short and grey, not gigantic, green, and tusked.

> Pretty sure Wc3 didn't have hooks to pull people in, throwing arrows, spellstealing, a guy with 10 different spells, and Meepo with his cloning ultimate.

You've never played WC3 custom games before have you?

But Dota is a WC3 custom game

Yes because Blizzard made all those custom games and therefore all abilities designed by the makers are made by them.

What?

You realize Valve didn't make dota as a warcraft 3 mod right? They just made dota 2.

The people that made dota in WC3 custom are either working for valve now (Icefrog) or working on League of Legends.

The only maker of Wc3 dota in LoL is Guinsoo, who made retarded shit like 27 spell invoker and a guy with a 10 second root. Pendragon just hosted a website.

I never said Valve made dota for wc3, genius.

To be honest, the lore can be inconsistent. For example, creeps (specifically the lane creeps) were supposed to be mindless and endlessly fighting, being normal people transformed into mindless slaves by the ancients' very presence.

Now they're apparently people who can have families and opinions.

Then again, we wouldn't have Ilexa without the new lore, so maybe it's acceptable.

Then I have no idea what your point is.
You said

>Pretty sure Wc3 didn't have hooks to pull people in, throwing arrows, spellstealing, a guy with 10 different spells, and Meepo with his cloning ultimate.

It did. the version of dota in Warcraft 3 had all these things. Valve did not have any stake in dota at the time. I never implied blizzard owned it or anything you're trying to drag into the conversation.

My only point was that the warcraft 3 custom map dota had all these things. All these abilities.

Ilexa will be corrupted by the presence of the ancients in time as well.

delet this

>never had Pudge hook

youtu.be/Hm9ZDJekA3o?t=4m27s

It really has no depth yet. On Veeky Forums you're competing with games that have up to 30+ years of history, and vast intricate storylines. Dota itself could possibly translate to the table top and would make a fun quick game, but the lore is almost non existent compared to warhammer, dnd, and the various other big games on here. Also dota is currently only a computer game and thus has no place on Veeky Forums yet. Warcraft at least has card games which is why it gets discussed here from time to time

>no Divided We Stand

youtube.com/watch?v=4FOH-DjyP_8

>this fucker completely wrecked an entire universe on his own
Can you even stat him based on his lore? It feels like it would be a "you lose" scenario.

I don't think you guys get the point he was making

I like how many of the heroes are vague allusions to modern physical theories.

I can agree on that, I have no idea what point he was making.

People were talking about the lore and then he suddenly started spouting bullshit about X ability not existing in the dota custom map for warcraft 3.

Explain his point if possible. He seems incapable.

He didn't, though. Lol does lore better because lol does it at all, valve doesn't really give a shit. Sure, they sometimes release a random comic, and many (if not all) of the heroes have compelling and strong personalities (characterised mostly through voice-lines). But there is no semblance of a plot, and the interactions between the heroes are limited to occasional voice reactions. The world itself is mostly undefined, so there's nothing about it that would make it non-generic.
None of that is a problem for me, the developers just made a conscious decisions to not care about lore other than defining the heroes.
t. dotafag

People said nothing was original and I said the abilities and most of the heroes appearance were, you retard.

I said the abilities weren't made by Blizzard and are original to dota you fucking inbred. The post saying they were was sarcasm.

I'm saying Blizzard didn't make those so Dota is original, in response to the user that said everything is unoriginal. Learn to read the first fucking post in a tread you godda retard.

Dota 2's lore is ok, I like it, but It's more of the individual characters that shine in their personal stories (NOT all of them, just most), and the issue with that is players are presuming going to be making their own unique characters in such a world. So dota really boils down to:
-Some fallen kingdoms
-A few interesting "Old Laws"
-Two very evil mind controlling rocks wanted to kill each other.

League of Legends on the other hand has a much more thematic world that is begging the pushes and pulls of different sides in secret and overt conflicts... but the opposite of Dota, (most of) their character personal stories suck balls or are jokes.

I don't like LoL as much as I like Dota, but between the two LoL is a more interesting RPG world to play in- excluding their characters when possible.

>Also dota is currently ONLY a computer game and thus has no place on Veeky Forums yet.

Explain?
All i see are more obvious pop-nerd references.

... I'm still not getting your point. Yes the abilities were made by someone for the warcraft 3 custom map dota. Most of these abilities were also in other custom games of warcraft 3. You have whole resources dedicated to creating new stuff for Warcraft 3, new spells etc... ( hiveworkshop.com/repositories/spells.569/ ) which were usually quickly integrated into Dota or Tides of blood or whatever other Moba was being played there. Most of the original Dota heroes had nearly exact doppelgangers in those other mobas too.

I'm not the guy claiming it was unoriginal, since I know barely any of the lore. But what the fuck do abilities have to do with the lore? What gives Dota 2 a claim on the original dota's abilities?

Valve didn't design any of them. They aren't original to Dota 2. So in that regard that user is right, they are unoriginal. As in, Valve merely copied something from a community made game and copied the name.

But that doesn't really matter as we're talking about the lore. Which doesn't really exist at all.

To add to that, what gives dota the sole claim to shit every other custom game was using at the time?

The guy was saying EVERYTHING was unoriginal, which includes abilities. Since Icefrog redesigned many of the heroes most of the abilities he made, thus he's just remaking most of his abilities for Dota 2. Since he works for Valve, after all.

Comics for people that don't know.
About 42ish pages in all.

dota2
dot
com/comics/are_we_heroes_yet/

There's tons of them. 1 for Axe, 1 for Zeus, 2 for Monkey King, 1 for AM and Windranger, 1 for PA and Oracle, and probably some more.

>what do people like about dota 2's lore?
It's an endless war of all kinds of different super heroes, cosmic forces and someone with a runny nose.
What appeals is the chaos and sheer absurdity of it all. Like personified gravity being murdered by a retarted drunken panda.

>what would translate well to a tabletop system?
The simplicity of the stats. There are only three main attributes and skills do not depend on attributes (mostly). The game is also heavily focused on acquiring pwer. Either by gaining levels or by finding items of legendary power.

In a tabletop game the campaign would be a mad race for the powerful items of antiquity.

>what wouldn't?
Like Morrowind Dota hands all its calculations to the PC. The biggest problem will be the positioning of characters relative to each other and their skills.

How would balancing permanent growth heroes like Legion or Pudge work?

Oracle is uncertainty
Enigma is gravity
Io is electragnetism
CK is the strong nuclear force
Kotl is the weak nuclear force.

I used to think this was an asspull theory but:
>(ET to CK) A strong force you were...
>(Enigma to KotL) Ezalor, the weak and infirm...
>(Puck to Enigma) To be a true enigma, it would be best to style oneself on something less studied than gravity.

Are you sure Oracle is uncertainty?

Can one ever be sure?

Interpret this *unzips dick*

Maybe, but Elder Titan's bio seems less grand, it sounds more like he just fucked up the world Dota 2 takes place on

We will need a microscope to interpret that.

Like someone else said, DoTA started life as a mod, using the assets/models from Warcraft 3.
As a result, its lore is shit.
It's garbage. The only kinda neat thing is the ancients/how they influence people to kill their other half.
But everything else is kinda shit, cause it was all layered on top of the mod, in a rather awkward way.

Is that all?

ET definetly exists on some multiversal level. He participated in the Planck era, when the four fundamental forces were unified. Then he shattered that unity somehow, and now their sentient expressions ravage across the multiverse.

Enigma, IO, Chaos Knight, and Ezalor are all Fundamentals either created by Elder Titan, or created by the Titans in general when the universe was formed.

Oracle is simply very powerful at divination, so much so that he can see other realities

Read Oracle's background again. The oracles that came before him could see other realities. Nerif actually shaped them, in one case actually enforcing many worlds theory on a battle.

>tfw you fuck up so bad you have to spend billions of years cleaning up your mess

So Elder Titan was the Nameless One's original incarnation all along?

Sure, he's powerful, but no other fundemental, or elder titan make note of him being a fundemental (granted, he came after, so maybe there's no voice lines). In some ways he's in the same boat as figures like Leshrac, Lone Druid, and monkey king. Figures who were once mortal but through some knowledge or rite were made immensely powerful

Ancient Apparition is gonna kill everything though

He's literally the Heat Death of the Universe personified

His ultimate should start on cooldown and only come off once the universe ends. using it wins the game instantly.

"wait guys my ulti's on cooldown"

Think this guy gets it.
Clinkzs story is pretty dope for a concept

Cursed burning skeleton is cool and all, but have you considered the prisoner of DOUBLE HELL

Didn't pflax basically say there are only 4 choices for Dota 3 hero back stories?

I think they were Wizard Fight, Last of his Kind, God did it, and Cop Out.

Theres not all too much to the lore really, but the characters themselves and their individual bits of fluff i love.

All superheroes/villains of their own accord, and it's not quite as retarded as LoL's roster.
I especially have a soft spot for all of the Trolls, aswell as Bradwarden and Bristleback

All I can say is that Windranger has extremely cute feet, and more DOTA2 females should go bare foot.

I absolutely adore timbersaw,
his design
his voice lines
his kit

everything with this hero is perfectly on point. They took the rather stupid sounding concept of
a goblin afraid of trees to the next lvl.
I mean he is the sole survivor of the last marsh of the ents and nobody believes him.

Found the footfag.

These are some real detective skills you got here

You are truly the modern-day Sherlock Holmes, user.

>your 200 MMR will translate into the tabletop adaption

not who you responded to but I have those

>200 MMR
you serious?

what is it that makes moba/arts/assfaggots-players such toxic short-tempered dicks?

He's perfectly fucking annoying and tiresome, I'll give him that.

>deride what someone says as bullshit
>call him short tempered
Fucking hypocrite.

Dotas lore is shit

Terrorblade is fucking terrible in this

>He was so evil not even hell could contain
>he was sent to SUPER HELL

I do adore Juggernaut and Bounty Hunter though

I fucking love Windrunners design in Dota 2

?
where did i imply what he said was bullshit? i was merely commenting on the tone of his post

that's hilarious tho

>he was spouting bullshit about X ability not existing
I was replying to that

The issue with DOTA 2's Lore is that they never get chances to dwell more into it because the game doesn't require a story to work. Just some thematics backstories, some interactions between some characters and done.

The world painted by the comics and bios is pretty fun.

A massive world doomed to fight because of 2 clashing deities that corrupt eberybody's mind around them to enforce their petty squabble for all eternity.

How average people corrupted by the ancients turn morph into creeps and only heroes manage to keep their body and mind intact (mostly)

How Roshan was a thief that tried to steal the aegis from the merchant and in returned was cursed by both deities to be forever killed and reborn.

All the races, Elder Titan's backstory, the mad moon.

So much potential for an old school campaign driven RTS/ARPG.

That one axe comic where he's basically Conan being followed by a scribe is really neat but unfortunately that not what the actual game is about

It's kind of sad that Dota 2 is Valves most played game and they spend most of their time making hats and not more comics or stuff.

Valve should just make a comic series for DOTA 2. They've been trying to push stuff like trading cards and Action figures of the series for years now, but the characters don't have enough charisma or story for people to care about them outside the game.

A comic, cartoon or even novel series would increase interest in them a lot.

Quiet goyim, buy more hats.

>The Living Form of the Inescapable Death of Existence
Vs
>Guy Who is Friends with a Bat

Dota 2 lore is great. A ttrpg would need to capture the feeling of everyone starting at more or less the same power level regardless of their backstory.

And what
Said about it being a race for artifacts

The reason why the massive difference betwen powerlevels in the games are equalized is that the Dire and Radiant deities empower everybody so they all stand in fair ground.

As the guy who made the comment, it was bullshit though. Those abilities existed in Warcraft 3 dota.

I was saying that they weren't made by Blizzard. My point was that the abilities were original to Dota, not other custom games or Blizzard.

Yes. I just play for the sake of playing and don't actually try much though.

>don't tell one of the players about everyone starting the same
>tries to make an OP as shit hero
>same strength as a monkey riding an elephant
Would be funny.