Hey Veeky Forums i need to vent a little so please indulge my ramblings or just ignore the thread. I've been a 40k fan for a long, long time, and i've been in and out of the game a couple time in the years. Seventh edition dragged me back in, i bought some imperial guard ( astramilibullshit, this is the guard son. ) and some skitarii, i somehow found the will to paint them ( i don't really enjoy painting very much ) and found a group to play. And everyone is a cheesemonster. You fix a day, you drive there, you set the tables pull your armies out, roll the dices spend a couple minutes to think how best to approach the table, finally you deploy your guys and... the cheesemonster win in 2 turns max. Every. Fucking. Time. Why do people even bother? It's such a hassle to get everything ready and then it's over in 15 minutes. Do you have fun that way? I tried different groups but i'm italian, italians have larceny and scumbaggery in their blood, if they can fuck you over they will so i couldn't find a good one. I've completely lost the will to play the game and to paint my remaining minis.... what should i do Veeky Forums, i really need some guidance here
Brayden Harris
Never bothered to play it in the first place. I mean, lore and awesome minis are enough - there is a huge value just in collecting and painting the stuff.
Jayden Diaz
that's not very encouraging...
Adam Martinez
Why should I encourage you to continue doing stuff you don't like?
Cameron Young
Well, you either turn into cheese monster or find another table, that's it.
I know what you mean, I too love WH40K but I've played it like two or three times and it was with a borrowed army. I enjoyed it a lot since I played it with close friends, and we were just playing for the fun of it. If you're playing tournaments or some shit like that, well... expect cheese monsters.
I personally find joy in just playing the vidya, reading the awesome lore and collecting some minis but that's it.
Andrew Reyes
What kind of cheese are they running? Asking because >Losing to list that happens to counter IG pretty hard =/= Cheese vs >Losing to Eldar/Necron Lunacy
If your playing with nice guys, you could ask them to tone it down/try out fluffy lists. If not, you could try to out-cheese them, which is going to be very hard because imperial guard are not the current lords of cheese.
If that doesn't sound fun, then you need to find/make some new friends to play with.
If you can't do any of the above, just stop playing.
Jason Turner
Where do you come from user? i know some good gaming groups in a fuckload of italian places and i could suggest something
Xavier Ross
I hate the new changes in the lore they are doing
Im just ignoring everything now the 40k in your head is way btter
Ayden Russell
the best way to deal with cheesemonsters isn't to join them or even to ignore them
you must destroy them despite their cheese, despite their reliance on gadgets and gimmick plays
you must plan for the kinds of threats they'll field and come up with non-cheese ways of destroying them, humiliating them in the process - nothing is more humiliating than the defeat of a supposedly undefeatable foe
they'll call what you do cheese: they'll say your attention to detail and tactical planning are cheating, and that you should be relying on pieplates, mass-dice and re-rolls from low-number, high-value units because that's how the game is played
stomp them with a mass assault, distraction deathstar them while your real force wins on VP, force them to walk headlong into your firepower, use Orders to hurt them with units they've never learned to respect the danger of
hell, do whatever you want, but just remember you're doing yourself no favours at all if you go into a game expecting to lose
Thomas Ortiz
skyhammers, even 2 of them at times, tau riptide spams, necron decurions fit to the teeth with cheddar, eldar scatterspam and the like. Tuscany, Florence area. Nice, i wish i was a master tactician like you...teach me sempai
Isaiah Johnson
>i'm italian My condolescences, lad.
Parker Parker
>skyhammers, even 2 of them at times, tau riptide spams, necron decurions fit to the teeth with cheddar, eldar scatterspam and the like. Either murder them all in brutal ways OR walk away to save your sanity. It boils down to one of these choices
Jeremiah Sullivan
I used to play in 5th with Guard back when they were strong so I had a blast cheesing it up with my other cheesy friends. We would mix in for fun units with strong army lists so there was variety and good times and challenging games.
Now I'm back into 7th and Guard are on the weaker end and it's been rough. Every army feels like they get to just circumvent established rules. I start looking at the base rules and thinking that most of it doesn't matter because every army has something that gets to essentially cheat the system.
I've been having fun playing various units and building and painting. I have some fun playing too, but it's not easy against some of the better armies. The one thing that has been keeping me into it is that everyone seems to love my army composition. My opponent and random people watching come up and compliment the units I chose to take and people say it would be fun to play me. Then I actually play and I basically have a fun match for 2 turns, then I lose all my hard hitting stuff and I eventually concede because I know I will be slowly wiped in the next 1-2 turns. Also I usually run out of time.
Evan Perez
È la semplicissima ragione per cui ho smesso ufficialmente di giocare competitivamente. Niente più tornei o eventi del genere per me. mi sono quasi completamente convertito al TTRPG
Ian Wilson
>skyhammers, even 2 of them at times, tau riptide spams, necron decurions fit to the teeth with cheddar, eldar scatterspam and the like.
Good fucking god. Either ask them about toning it down, learn to love losing, or walk away. Not a IG tactics expert by any means, but from what I do know I think you going to have a hard time tailoring a list to have a chance at beating any of those.
Juan Evans
team narrative campaigns m8, kill team is really popular in my FLGS.
400 point combat patrol is also fun, really minimizes the nonsense and gives guard a bit more to do then just sit and die.
also 30K is fun, the units cost so much that lists are really crowded with the basics, and everyone is expected to have one really nasty unit so they tend to slug it out leaving the side stuff to do their things. its less expensive now, the HH plastic box sets have really driven down the price of the basic marines on ebay to crazy low levels. like 25 bucks for 10. add in low point version of the age of darkness battles (1500 is low) and your looking at a very hard time making cheese.
Aaron Sanders
As a guard player I would strongly suggest breaking yourself of the harmful habit of wanting to ever win while playing as guard.
I mostly play against Chaos Marines which are hardly the most top tier army and even with massive blobs of infantry with psychic and artillery support I usually lose having barely inflicted 1 or 2 5 man units worth of casualties. An enemy with a Demon Prince who 2/5 times ends up with a SECOND Demon Prince from chaos boons just isn't really in the books for Guard to beat in 7th.
Try to find a better sci fic ruleset to use the models for or try your fortunes elsewhere I'm afraid is my advice, since formations or just a generally fixed game is not likely for Guard.
Josiah Reyes
if you cant find a group, try making one. Maybe others feel like you do
Andrew Flores
knight titan them to death?
the real life cost isn't that crazy compared to the guards 30 bucks for 70 points of goons. a single knight will cause alot of problems.
I have considered making a double type list. one list with a bullshit unit like a knight and the other that is more fun, but they'd use the same support models. So when I show up to play I can 1) ask if my opponent wants to play vs a knight or 2) look if he is pulling out hot cheese first.
a single knight behind a proper guard list works pretty well to annoy the status quo.
Jose Davis
yeah this is true, I play the guard for fighting against the odds and dropping that special weapon squad from my vendetta to get a demo charge off in that back field objective unit.
>also Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company
Oliver Jackson
Find close friends to play with who aren't shitty.
I play Tyranids, but thanks to the fact I play with people I know instead of pub games, I don't get mulched by WAAC players who don't know the meaning of a casual game. Hell I have one of the highest win rates among my friends, and that's playing against IG, Necrons, Chaos, and Space Wolves.
Andrew Moore
Didn't you hear, OP? That doesn't actually happen in real life and you're just a lying obese neckbeard living in your mother's basement who doesn't actually play 40K.
Andrew Smith
Well one view is that you could maximise and buy more units to outfit your army with the latest cheese of the day.
Or you could minimise, as i am dooing. Im making a killteam with custom rules that the opponent has to approve before playing with me. Im not overpowering my guys, that would be grey knights. Im just interested in playing an interesting game where i get to use multiple tactics. And if they do somehow find a way to cheese killteam (im not that experianced) then it will most likely come down to a single model and i'll simply say; "if you want to play with me, you cant bring that half wolf half dreadnaught to the table." That should calm them down pretty quickly in my experiance.
Samuel Morris
Play a different game. Most games don't have these problems, 40k drones have just convinced themselves it's all the fault of the WAAC brigade and the cheesy lists. If you just pick a game with a sensible scale, balanced rules and a developer that gives a fuck, you'll have a much better time, without having to worry about if you will be seen as 'cheesy' for just running a list that you like.
Brandon Reed
>playing a miniatures wargame with miniatures you don't like just because it has better rules
That's dumb. But so are 40k's rules, so damned if you do damned if you don't.
Joseph Price
ruleset =/= miniatures. Play any game you want with any miniatures you want, stop drinking the GW koolaid that GAMES MUST BE PLAYED WITH OFFICIAL MINIS ONLY
Aaron Bennett
Knights aren't really cheese though, unless you consider dakkaknight just SCYTHING through tarpits with 36 S6 AP3 shots to be cheese.
Charles Richardson
what sort of vents/heat sinks (plz no heretek) can we put on plasguns to make them not explode?
Jeremiah Phillips
Yeah because that's going to work so smoothly and not require any modification or remembering dozens of inaccurately modeled miniatures.
There is no kool aid being drank youre just a moron. Go try and play a game of Infinity or X-Wing with your space marines and tell me how it goes.
Connor Young
I know right.
Sto lontano miglia dai tornei, mi salterebbe la vena subito..
Yeah i've been looking into kill team, it looks fun. Not really into buying more models right now tho, so no 30k for me.
I don't even want to win, i'd just like to play the damn game, it takes hours to get started and minutes to finish a game with those lists. Any advice on better rulesets? What do i google.
I do have a knight, but it usually gets melted by the graviton spam before it can even raise a gun.
I laugh every time.
Oh ok. I'll toss these minis in the trash then.
I don't want to be offensive or anything....but you sound a bit like that guy.
Have you tried blowing very hard on them?
Levi Sanchez
Git gud Also, I would suggest playing killteam
Jack Bell
commissar said Im not suppsed't blow hard anymore
Isaac Gray
I ran into this problem too. Luckily, I mainly play with friends in my basement. We play 5th edition with 7th ed hull points and vehicle damage table included + a few other rule changes. Allies, fliers, lords of war, and every army getting huge MC's that have wounds instead of vehicle rules ruined the game. If you have to stick to the current edition though, try to play at smaller point values; maybe 1500 or lower.
Juan Carter
>5th edition with 7th ed hull points and vehicle damage table included + a few other rule changes. Interesting, tell us more?
Jaxon Perry
I just play Warpath with 40K figures these days. Generally if the community is shit, then that can understandably sour the experience with you. It is why I quit playing 40K in the first place.
Xavier Nguyen
Yeah, that's his job.
[USER WAS BLAMMED FOR THIS POST]
++Thought of the Day: Heresy Grows From Idle Thoughts++
Jacob Howard
sick strawman though DURR XWING DOESNT WORK WITH SPACE MARINES SO YOUR WRONG
Henry Wilson
I am at college so I dont have all my house rules with me but I remember most of it.
For background my friends and I played around 50ish games of 6th ed when it dropped before deciding we did not like the new directions the game was heading. We were still in elementary school when we 'played' 3rd so most of our experience was in 4th and 5th.
The major house rules added on to 5th are -hull points and vehicle damage charts from 7th -front model dies -snap shots -challenges -most types of cover giving 5+ instead of 4+ -vehicle cover going from 5+/4+/3+ to 6+/5+/4+ -any mission generally works from any edition -first blood, line breaker, and slay the warlord as secondary objectives
Those are the ones I remember off the top of my head.
What did these rules try to achieve using 5th as the base? -bring in the fun improvements -most of the dexes were comparable in power to each other in 5th (we dont play GKs or wolves) -keep maneuver as integral part of the game (most units in later editions can reach across the board turn 1 to hit anywhere)
40k is a company level skirmish game. The larger the points and later the edition, the game becomes something completely different. 1500 points back in 5th on a 6x4 board is plenty full. The larger point games in later editions become so cluttered, and allies throws a huge wrench into properly balancing the game.
Hope this info is interesting.
Ian Sullivan
Imperial guard huh. Invest in Leman Russ tanks. Also, if ya got Skittari. Go the full length and pick up War Convocation. Show them true power with an awesome army.
James Rodriguez
Have you tried just fielding men.
Men and men and more men.
Grouped up standard squads with heavy weapons and full sized squads of conscripts. Tarpit the ever loving fuck out of them and drown them in flashlight fire.
Robert Brooks
40k is all about your dudes. Have fun looking at your army and making their story in your head. Talk to some friends to grab a starter box (Dark Vengeance is 85 euros and contains two armies ready to play) and enjoy yourselves. See the cheesemonsters get jealous, because maxcheese for win doesnt necessarily mean fun.
Nicholas Hall
treat yourself and buy a baneblade. it won't out cheese them but it will make their asses clench for a few minutes. make sure to get the baneblade that has the apoc blast weapon.
Brandon Powell
another great tactic for beating cheese players is to have a better looking army than they do. really take your time painting and basing, make your dudes look epic as fuck.
Carter Nguyen
Are they atleast nice enough to ask if your guard units could be a stand in for some death korps assault brigade. Send squads in reckless charges, abuse a little rule called forlorn hope. Forlorn hope has it were any squad that gets wiped goes into reserves. Fight cheese with corpses.
Jaxson Jones
I'm an IG player too and I love the tanks but the baneblade is kinda terrible in this age of super-heavy walker.
Michael Cook
apoc blasts are never terrible my friend.
William Diaz
Bump because rants are important
Logan Morgan
Literally something a fake wargamer who has never played a 'HAS TO BE PLAYED WITH FUCKHAMMERtm MCMINIATURES' wargame would say.
Carter Ross
It doesn't win me games, but this is the best strategy in the current rules by far. You can on occasion take down quite powerful shit with just the sheer mass of bayonets and lasgun fire you can muster with orders and psychic re-rolls.
I had been shooting at a Chaos Lord all game with everything to literally no effect thanks to Nurgle Toughness and shrouding, but 50 conscripts with psychic rending attacks poked him to death with sharpened sticks in one round of combat.
Logan Perez
>Play any game you want with any miniatures you want
James Morgan
Anyone know where to find Ciaphis Cain audiobooks for free?
Levi Stewart
>40k is all about your dudes. >40k >your dudes
Henry White
One thing I dislike is people turning me down when I am asking for a game, just because I play Tau. I didn't pick them because they are currently in top! I picked them because I thought "oh battlesuits and aliens, neat", and that was back in 5th edition, when you could kill an ethereal and almost auto win against Tau
Julian Brown
And I clarify, I run tau like they should be, meaning that I have my main focus on my infantry, with battlesuit and tank support. And on higher point games I would occasionally bring out my single riptide, and/or my Barracuda fighter, but I often say that I am using a flyer, in case my opponent needs to change their list or just be aware of it.
Carter Hall
yup, geedubs screws everyone. There are some legitimate piece of shits that just buys what's currently overpowered, and they stand out the most, overshadowing players that just wants to have fun.
Charles Kelly
They are when you're not shooting at big units. A apoc blast on a single model is still only 1 hit