MTG Magic The Gathering Ask A Judge -「 W E D N E S D A Y W E E K 」

What happens to pyromancer's ascension triggers if the graveyard gets exiled (progenitus, ravenous trap) before they resolve?

Jack shit! Ascension doesn't have an intervening-if clause in the trigger, so the only time it cares whether there's same-named cards in your bin is when the trigger fires upon the casting. After that, the trigger resolves completely independent of what happens to the spell that fired it, or the cards in the graveyard.

So the only time abilities like that stop working is when they're worded like victimize (if you do, etc.)?

Jein. "If you do" will be present on 3 of the 4 kinds of abilities; you can find it on spell abilities (like with Victimize), triggered abilities (like Academy Rector), and activated abilities (like Akoum Flameseeker). By far they're more common on triggered abilities and spell abilities than activated ones, but still.

For those, the thing in question will tell you to perform some action, or give you a CHANCE to, if you'd like. Then, based on whether that action happened or not, another thing happens.

There's also a second sort of thing, present only on triggered abilities: the "intervening if" clause. This ONLY exists on triggered abilities, and is always formatted the same way; you'll have the trigger event ("When/Whenever/At [EVENT]"), followed by a comma, the word 'if', and then whatever qualifier; and then after that clause, the effect itself. So "When/Whenever/At [EVENT], if [CONDITION], [EFFECT]". An example is Evolve- "Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, if that creature has greater power or toughness than this creature, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.".

For those, the condition is checked twice: once as the trigger WOULD fire, and again as it would resolve. It has to be true at both of those times; if it isn't true when the trigger would fire (say, you play a 1/1 while you control a 2/2 with Evolve), then the trigger is never even put onto the stack. If it's true at the start, but not at the end (say, you play a 3/1 instead of a 1/1, and your opponent tags it with a Bewilder), then the trigger will just remove itself from the stack and do nothing.

Very clear answer, thanks

I have successfully usurped the unofficial title of local L1 judge despite not being a judge, largely owing to how the real local L1 only rarely visits the LGS anymore. What do?

What do you think about the round 8 ruling at the Pro Tour where a player asked his opponent "Combat?", was judge called, and the judge ruled that he'd gone to the declare attackers step?

Look into becoming L1?

I think I was done discussing it 3/4ths of the way through the last thread.

tl;dr the ruling was 100% in-line with our policies, and there's no good reason to change it.

>the ruling was 100% in-line with our policies
Then I guess I don't really want to become the local L1 considering the ruling was unequivocably wrong. Going to combat does not mean declaring attacks as there's an entire phase between beginning combat and declaring attacks.

As someone who was in the threads were it first came up, allow me to provide an abridged version.

Nguyen called a judge over when Segovia said "Combat?" and attempted to do Beginning of Combat things. This is un-intuitive as fuck, bear with me: According to the rules, saying "Combat?" means skipping the Beginning of Combat.

According to the rules, Nguyen was right, the judge at the table was right. There is little to no debate about this part.

The arguments that are popping up (at least the meaningful ones that aren't just rants or witchhunts) are roughly as follows.

1. Is Nguyen literally worse then Hitler? (I'd argue no, it's a PTQ, Spikes gonna Spike).
2. Should the rule be changed? (I'd argue yes, given how much of the community didn't seem to know it existed).

>There's an entire phase
Step. And saying "Combat?" means you're offering a shortcut that ends with your opponent having priority in the Beginning of Combat Step, per MTR 4.2: Tournament Shortcuts.

>A statement such as “I’m ready for combat” or “Declare attackers?” offers to keep passing priority until an opponent has priority in the beginning of combat step. Opponents are assumed to be acting then unless they specify otherwise.

The ruling was not wrong, even if you didn't like it. A ruling that is 100% backed up by policy literally by definition cannot be 'wrong'.

The ruling is wrong because the policy is wrong.

I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. Our rulings are literally "applying and enforcing the written policies of the MTR and the CR". A ruling is not incorrect just because you don't like it.

Trust me, there's a nonzero amount of policy that I vehemently disagree with, but that doesn't mean I get to ignore it, nor does it make the policy 'wrong'.

>the policy is wrong

Doesn't the Head Judge have the power to overrule literally any rule if he so chooses? If gatherer suddenly had a bug and said the card Island generates red mana, he can go 'nope that's stupid' and force Islands to make blue mana again.

More or less. Technically the Head Judge can overrule anything, but that's largely on the off chance something like that happens.

TECHNICALLY speaking, if Gatherer said that Islands could tap for Red because Oracle Text glitch, then they can, and the Judge is overriding the actual rules. But that's not really a 'thing' for the MTR or the IPG. The HJ can overrule those, but if we do so, we are literally saying "I am overruling this policy", not "this policy is in correct". Sometimes we decide that policy needs to be changed, but that doesn't happen in the middle of an event.

Will triggers that happen if a creature attacks and isn't blocked still happen if combat ends before the Declare Blockers step? (Such as Sundial of the Infinite)

Attacking creatures only become "unblocked" if they get past the declare blockers step with nothing in front of them. If combat ends before that point, the creature was never left unblocked.

They will not. "When ~ attacks and isn't blocked" really means "After blockers are declared but before anybody gets priority, if ~ is attacking and isn't blocked, trigger". If the turn never hits Declare Blockers the trigger's check never goes off.

More generally, "unblocked" means "is attacking, not blocked, and blockers have been declared". Though it is possible for a creature to be blocked before blockers get declared, the reverse is not true.

I got a weird one.
If I had both Dynavolt Tower and Fabrication Module on the field and cast Harnessed Lightning, would Fabrication Module then trigger twice?
The only reason I'm not sure is because Dynavolt Tower says you gain energy when you cast an instant or sorcery and Harnessed Lightning says you gain energy after you choose a target (which I assume means after it has been cast but not yet fully resolved)

If I damage myself with a source I control that has lifelink (so my life total doesn't change) does it still trigger abilities that say "Whenever you gain life, [effect]"?
The specific interaction in this case is Tamanoa, any painland, and Archangel of Thune.
I want to say it works, but the only ruling i can find about it is 118.9.
>Some triggered abilities are written, “Whenever [a player] gains life, . . . .”
>Such abilities are treated as though they are written, “Whenever a source causes [a player] to gain life, . . . .”
>If a player gains 0 life, no life gain event has occurred, and these abilities won’t trigger

It will! You gain energy on two deprecate occasions - first when dynavolt's triggered ability resolves (before harnessed lightning had done anything) and again when you gain the energy from harnessed lightning's ability (but you'll finish resolving lightning before the second module trigger can go on the stack)

If the game gives you a way to damage yourself, sure! You can't just have your creatures attack you, but you could, say, shock yourself with soulfire grand master in play.

If you activate ninjutsu but it gets voidslimed or disallowed, you must show the card in which you payed the cost for ninjutsu still right?

When grove of the burn willows is tapped for mana your opponents gains a life as part of that mana ability? So no triggers or things to respond to, it just adds red or green and they gain a life? (Not including things that trigger when someone gains life)

can I cast Collective Brutality discarding two cards to choose all three modes even if there are no legal targets for the second mode? or is it a case of it needs a target so you can't choose the mode so you can't discard the second card?

>there's a nonzero amount of policy that I vehemently disagree with
there you go with your nonzero
tell me more about the policy you don't like

well tamanoa hasn't always been this glam

Those triggers don't fire until the Declare Blockers step, once no blocks are declared. If combat is ended prior to that, the creature never 'attacked and wasn't blocked', so the trigger doesn't fire.

You would. You'd first gain EE from Dynavolt's trigger (which would trigger Module), then you'd gain EEE from Lightning and trigger Module again.

It would, yes. For lifelink stuff, you'd take N damage, which simultaneously results in you losing AND gaining N life. You still lost life and gained life for things that care, but your life total didn't ever actually change.

Tamanoa's a bit different; with those, you'd take the damage, then gain the life as the trigger resolves.

Nope. The costs for Ninjutsu say nothing about revealing the card, it's just put onto the field attacking as part of the resolution of the ability. If they Stifle the Ninjutsu, they won't know what Ninja it is unless they guess from what cost you paid for Ninjutsu.

Also your other creature will be in your hand, so that sucks.

Correct. You tap it, get your mana, and they gain 1 life immediately. No priority pass, nothing to respond to.

You can't choose the second mode if you have no legal targets for it.

Sorry, wasn't ignoring you, just figured I might need more than half a post.

I'm not a fan of some of our fixes, and there's been policy in the past that I vehemently hated (like lapsing triggers, or letting people pile count once per SHUFFLE instead of per game, good god).

>Tamanoa's a bit different; with those, you'd take the damage, then gain the life as the trigger resolves
so with soulfire grand slam if you're on 1 life you can shock yourself and keep playing, but tamanoa you'd be dead?

that's fair

Right. With Dunkmaster Soulfire, you take 2 damage and gain 2 life simultaneously, so you stay at 1. With Tamanoa you would take 2 damage, Tamanoa would trigger, and immediately before you put that trigger on the stack SBAs see you at -1 life and kill you. Trigger never even goes on the stack, let alone resolves.

Lets say I donate a creature that is equipped with a sword of fire and ice with assault suit. who gets the effects of the 2nd ability?

You do. The Sword is what's triggering, and you still control that; it just happens to be equipped to something else. So they dome someone for however much damage, YOUR Sword triggers and does 2 damage to a target of your choice, and YOU draw a card.

Does a commander deal commander damage regardless of the controller?

If I have a planeswalker commander and it somehow becomes a creature, can I win with commander damage?

I know you don't like talking about custom cards but I have a question about how the text are written.

In an EDH game, let's say I cast fling:
>As an additional cost to cast Fling, sacrifice a creature.
>Fling deals damage equal to the sacrificed creature's power to target creature or player.
I chose to sac my commander and decide to return it to the command zone. Will fling deals 0 damages or fizzle because the sacrificed creature wasn't really sacrificed?

And next, if the text was:
>As an additional cost to cast Fling, sacrifice a creature.
>Fling deals damage equal to that creature's power to target creature or player.
Would it then works because the spell isn't looking at a sacrificed creature?

As far as the ninjutsu is concerned, I found this, does it not apply in the way I think?

702.48b The card with ninjutsu remains revealed from the time the ability is announced until the ability leaves the stack

Absolutely. The game just cares that your commander dealt enough combat damage.

Radha heir to keld is enchanted with giant spectacle and alpha authority and goblin war drums is on the battlefield. My opponent cast sudden spoiling.

Does radha become a 2/3 with can't be blocked except for by one creature?

Sure does! If you deal 11 damage to Billy with your Commander, and then I Mind Control it and dome Billy for 5, then he's taken 16 damage from your Commander. 5 more will kill him.

Sure can.

"Fizzle" means "is countered by the rules of the game for having no legal targets". A spell that resolves but does nothing (IE, Doom Blade on a Darksteel Myr) doesn't fizzle- it resolved, it just didn't DO anything.

Fling needs to know the power of the creature you sacrificed, but that creature is no longer on the battlefield. It asks the game about the creature, and gets Last Known Information- everything about the creature as it last existed on the battlefield.

The Commander was 'really sacrificed', it just ended up somewhere else.

Well that's what I get for not double-checking the CR. Mea culpa.

Let's go through the layers.

>Layer 1: Copy
Nothing happening here!

>Layer 2: Control
Ditto.

>Layer 3: Text
Same.

>Layer 4: Type
Nothing here either

>Layer 5: Color
Still nothing!

>Layer 6: Abilities
So here's where things get fun. We have two instances of "Radha has Menace" from Spectacle and War Drums, and one instance of "Radha has Hexproof". Sudden Spoiling also says "She has no abilities at all". We apply all this in timestamp order, so it shuts off both instances of Menace, and her Hexproof.

>Layer 7a: P/T set by CDAs
Nada.

>Layer 7b: P/T set to a specific number
Sudden Spoiling sets Radha's base to 0/2.

>Layer 7c: P/T modified, but not set
We've got +2/+1 from Spectacle here. Radha is now a 2/3.

>Layer 7d: P/T modified by counters
No counters here

>Layer 7e: P/T switch
Also nothing.

So, we end up with a 2/3 Radha with no abilities, that can't be blocked except by more than one creature. That's because unlike Menace, which is an ability given to Radha, the 'can't be single-blocked' is an ability on the Alpha Authority that just makes something TRUE of Radha. It's not an ability granted to her, so Sudden Spoiling doesn't touch it.

So the fling will actually deals damages even if I use my commander and put it in the command zone? that's great news

Yep! Fling doesn't care what happens to the sacced creature, only that you did indeed sac it. It's looking into the past to find out how much damage to deal.

Nissa vital force makes a land a creature and it swings. Meeks tone is out. Does the land untap nest turn?

It does. The duration of "until your next turn" ends as soon as that next turn begins, so at the time you're untapping the land it's no longer a 5/5 creature.

1.both me and my opponent have 8 life and he attacks with 2 8/8 creatures of which i block one and cast arcbond on my blocker. do we both die or only me?

2.i have 1 forest and my opponent attacks with forestwalking creature, if i turn my forest into some other land using unstable frontier can i block the creature or is it too late?

1) Just you. You and your blocker simultaneously take 8 damage, which triggers Arcbond. SBAs are checked immediately before that trigger goes on the stack, and they see you at 0 life, so you lose immediately. Arcbond's trigger never goes on the stack, let alone resolves.

2) Forestwalk and other evasion abilities only matter for the actual declaring of blockers. If you blank your Forest before moving to blocks, then Forestwalk isn't online and you can block it just fine.

So I looked at the rules on the magic website and I found the rules on planeswalkers, IIRC it said
>If a player controls two or more planeswalkers of the same type, that player chooses one and all others are removed from the battlefield
To me that implies if one singular player controls them, but I've always understood that only one Planeswalker supertype can exist at once. Am I misreading it here or are the rules worded poorly?

Also could I declare that Metallic Mimic's type was Chandra to remove my opponents Chandra?

You're not misreading, you're misREMEMBERING. In the past, the Planeswalker Uniqueness Rule was board-wide. If you had a Jace, the Mind Sculptor, I could play a Jace Beleren and it'd nuke both of them. In M14 they changed that, along with the Legend Rule, to only care about what's controlled by each player, and to say "pick one, bin the rest" instead of binning all of them.

I can have a Jace, and you can have a Jace, and nothing happens. If I play a SECOND Jace of any kind, I have to pick which one of my two Jaces to keep.

Also, you can't declare Mimic's type to be "Chandra", because that's not a creature subtype.

I can't be misremembering since I only started playing in 2016 but that's neither here nor there.
Follow up question, say I have deciever of form on the board, and my revealed card at the beginning of combat is Thalia, Heretic Cathar, all creatures become copies of her. Does the fact that they are copies protect them from the legendary rule or have I just wiped my own board?

And someone tried telling me that if Gonti Lord of Luxury leaves the battlefield you can still cast the exiled card, but if it or another Gonti enters, that original exiled card can't be cast, is that true or was he just trying to fuck with me?

Nope- being copies doesn't change anything. They'd still all have the Legendary supertype and the same name. Of course, you get to choose whether or not to make your board a copy of the card AFTER you reveal it, so you can just say "haha no thank you".

Once Gonti exiles the card, a duration is created, and for the length of that duration you may cast the card. The duration is "for as long as that card remains exiled". The duration does not care what happens to Gonti; if Gonti bites the dust, you can still cast the exiled card. If you play a second Gonti before casting the card the first one exiled, you can still cast that first card, because the duration hasn't ended yet.

haha no thank you

If i want to play a doubled sided card but dont have the requisite checklist, can i just sharpie "delver of secrets" on the front of a token with a regular magic back? How about a basic land that i'm not playing?

use sleeves

They're like ten cents. Just buy a dozen and you'll never have to worry about it again.

I use sleeves, but i'd still rather not get pulled up on opacity, and my lgs doesnt have the original checklists

Does the upkeep trigger from mindwrack demon go on the stack? Like can I play mindwrack demon, get 3 types in the graveyard and on my next upkeep respond to the trigger with an instant to prevent the life loss?

All triggers go on the stack.

Could you explain me exactly why Sidisi can exploit herself to tutor for a card?
Everybody says it's possible, but the rulings are confusing, specially this part:

"If the creature with exploit isn’t on the battlefield as the exploit ability resolves, you won’t get any bonus from the creature with exploit, even if you sacrifice a creature. Because the creature with exploit isn’t on the battlefield, its other triggered ability won’t trigger."

>If the creature with exploit isn’t on the battlefield as the exploit ability resolves
Exploit ability sacrificed the creature when it resolves so she's still on the field. That's why every exploit creatures can exploit itself.

You cannot. You either use opaque sleeves, or a checklist. You can't make a proxy.

All triggers, unless they are mana abilities, go on the stack and can be responded to.

That line means if you play Sidisi, and someone kills her in response to the Exploit trigger, you wouldn't get anything out of saccing some second creature to the trigger.

Sidisi WAS on the battlefield when you sacrificed a creature, because you sacrificed -her-. By definition, she had to be on the battlefield for you to do that.

yes you can
>fun fact: mindwrack still tries to hit you for four each turn, every turn

Just got a quick, simple question, since I'm pretty sure my buddy learned something wrong from a local judge yesterday:

Venser's Journal will (generally, barring some sort of weird shit) trigger *before* the player ever draws his first card of the turn, because Upkeep takes place before Draw, correct? There is no moment (without intervening card effects) that he can draw, *then* gain life?

On part of this rule: If I play a legendary creature with an ETB effect, then somehow get a second one simultsniously, would 2 etb effects trigger or just 1?

Well, it's possible to draw cards in response to the trigger in the upkeep, but no, there's not a way to have your Draw step happen before your Upkeep step so that the card you drew this turn counts for Journal.

If you put two out together (maybe you played Collected Company and got 2 of them), you'd trigger both, pick one to keep, put the other in the graveyard, and then put both triggers on the stack.

Bedtime!

so, with Venser's Journal out, and if I'm playing Azami with some Wizards to use her effect, in response to the Journal triggering, I can tap Wizards to draw cards and increase the heal?

Yep. Journal's trigger doesn't check how many cards are in your hand until it resolves. If you draw more cards in response to that, you'll gain more as it resolves.

If velocity is a vector how come energy is not?

Because kinetic energy is derived from the magnitude of the velocity vector, and magnitudes aren't vectors.
Seriously, this is basic linear algebra.

Do you ever regret getting into MtG?

Couldn't tell you, it's been a while since I took physics. As I recall, a vector requires both a magnitude and a direction, and energy lacks a direction.

Nah! Even when I've had to take a break from it for whatever reason, I just put it on the back burner until I have time for it again.

how hard is it to be a judge? i have yet to try a practice test yet.

ive corrected people in a more competitive scene of EDH on things, so i know most of the rules pretty well id like to think. looking to get into modern as well with my T2 Tokens deck. been playing magic for about 5 years but im way into tcg's in general for awhile so i always look for weird interactions anyway,

Not too hard. The actual L1 exam only covers stuff you'd see in Standard, as well as the Magic Tournament Rules and Judging at Regular documents.

Slow morning.

If my opponent casts Lightning Storm and holds priority to discard lands, can I respond to the first discard with Trickbind to stop it?

You can't. Your opponent can hold priority each time they activate Storm; they don't have to hand priority back over to you until they're ready to start resolving the activations. It's perfectly legal for them to cast Storm, explicitly hold priority, and then activate it however many times, holding priority each time, to keep from getting hurt by Trickbind too badly.

Thank you, can I Trickbind and then discard a land to bounce it back to them?

You can, but they can just activate it again. Trickbind actually doesn't "lock down" the Storm, just counters one activation.

O! So because it's not a permanent they can still activate it?

Bingo.

Not a rules related question, but why are there no aether revolt/kaldesh draft queues in mtgo right now?

Hey, what's the best way to get into Magic?

Playing duels atm. Got a local that play games, and some friends.

Playing Duels is an okay way to start- it'll teach you some things not-quite-right (damage doesn't reduce toughness), but it's a good way to jump in and not get overwhelmed. Past that, I'd recommend just heading into a store (if you have one) and saying "I'm new".

If I have a Linessa Zephyr Mage out as well as a willbreaker and my opponent has let's say a sun titan can I just pay 2 blue mana from linessa's ability to target the sun titan and end up gaining control of it from willbreaker ability?

You cannot. Linessa's ability says "Target creature with converted mana cost X". If you want to target a Sun Titan with that ability, it will cost you 6UU, because the Sun Titan has converted mana cost of 6.

It's not "return target creature to its owner's hand if it has CMC of X", which would let you activate it for 0 to trigger Willbender- it's flat out "target creature with CMC X", so you have to pay that exact amount for X. And the bouncing isn't optional- even if you paid 6UU, you'd trigger Willbreaker and steal the creature... and then bounce it back to your opponent's hand.

Can Ashnod's Altar be activated in response to split second since it's a mana ability? Is it a mana ability?

If I cast Rite of Replication kicked targeting Purphoros, God of the forge and have no other red devotion, would the 5 purphoros' "be" creatures that trigger off of each other before I have to bin most of them to the legend rule?

Activated mana abilities must not target, must not be loyalty abilities, and must be able to put mana in a player's mana pool if the ability resolves.

Ashnod's Alter meets all these criteria. It is a mana ability.

Split second prevents you from activating abilities, unless those abilities are mana abilities.

Yes

i have Trostani on the field and cast Geist-Honored Monk. do the tokens made by the Monk get on the field increasing his toughness before i gain hp from Trostani?