New to Pathfinder. Tips?

Hey all, one of my friends is going to be running a pathfinder game soon and I've heard mixed messages about the system. I'm used to playing D&D 5th edition and so far it seems a lot more crunchy but generally the same. My main question is for character creation. Is it really as unbalanced as people say here or is it just a meme? We are probably going to be playing at the lower levels are there certain classes that I should avoid?

>TL;DR Tips for a Pathfinder Newbie who's mostly played 5E

Also, is caster supremacy really that bad? I'd really like to play a martial class.

Don't play Pathfinder.

Go back to playing 5e.

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It should be fine, especially if your group isn't all that guys looking for broken builds online.

I generally restrict my players when they're new to the system to the core and advanced players guide, but that's just because I've seen people get lost with all the options of all the books.

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Play Synthesist Summoner. They're one of the few cool things to come out of Pathfinder.

>We are probably going to be playing at the lower levels are there certain classes that I should avoid?
All of the Core classes, all of the Base classes, all of the Alternate classes, all of the Hybrid classes and all of the Unchained classes.

Also any of the races that have words in their description.

It's funny because it's true.

any help aside from "Don't play pathfinder" all my friends like it a lot more than 5E. We are all fairly new to the system so no one is going to try to break anything on purpose.

Get new friends.

Ah, so it is just all memes then or do you have any actual problems with the system?

You don't need to be a horrible powergamer to break Pathfinder and make it shitty. Shittiness is inherent in the system, it was built like that on purpose.

That doesn't matter at all. My group didn't break anything on purpose either, yet half the group ended up feeling utterly useless, despite the DM's best efforts..

That either means you're lying or your GM is actually mentally deficient.

You know, I don't like Pathfinder either guys but if you could avoid whipping out your dicks and furiously jerking each other off about how much you hate Pathfinder when someone's asking for help that'd be great.

As for OP, if you're a lower level then it's not a huge problem, most of the big imbalances come in in the late game but here's a thing to remember about this and all other systems. Unless you're playing with a bunch of irredeemable cunts then it's not going to be a big deal. If your character ends up too weak speak to your GM about rebuilding or ways that you could be buffed.

If you want a hand building a character then I'd be more than happy to help, what kind of character are you wanting to play thematically?

So just Occult classes then? Got it.

Worst community, the Race and Class options have to be broken up into tiers by the meta just so you can all play on "equal" ground, found what few roleplayers that hadn't been ruined by 3.5 and finished the job, and theater of the mind isn't an option for combat.

It's just so utterly flawed that merely playing it breaks the game, and it continues to get worse all the time.

it's DnD, just roll characters have fun

I usually run the adventure paths since they're fun, they re-published Rise of the Runelords as a hardcover of all 6 parts of the adventure.

I see Pathfinder Internet Defense Force has arrived. How's your day? Spent jerking off to kitsunes like usual?

Haven't read the Occult classes yet, but I wouldn't count on first-party material being any good.

Excellent counterpoint!

You're probably going to be fine desu, depends on if you want to jump into the deep end and allow everything or restrict it to the hardbacks (Core Rulebook, Ultimates, ACG, Unchained, etc.)

I'd recommend the latter personally, it gives you options without being inundated with all the splatbooks. If you want a basic primer on the rules also download the Strategy Guide (don't buy it, it's a shit book for anyone who isn't completely new), or get a module with premade characters.

No, I agree pathfinder is a terribly designed game. However I stand by my statement in that I myself have ran games for years where diverse parties all felt as if they were contributing. Either your GM has no idea how to bring a party together or someone in your party was purposefully trying to invalidate people and not fessing up to it.

I hate the game, but you're still incorrect here.

Heck especially below level 7.

You're not going to get much helpful advice with the strength of the Pathfinder Bad meme here. Some martial characters are fine as long as you're not playing with powergaming sperglords. Slayer's pretty hard to fuck up with, so that might be a good jumping off point for a new player.

I'm not sure yet, I was leaning more towards a martial class, but have heard terrible things about the magic being far superior in Pathfinder. But nothing concrete yet because I'm waiting for the GM to tell us more about the setting so I know what kind of character would be appropriate for the kind of game we are running.

I second this, Slayer is a really cool class that has a lot of flexibility and is relatively simple.

Counterpoint to what? To your autistic screeching and flailing your arms around?
3.5 is shit, but you can excuse WoTC for it - they didn't know what the fuck they're doing. Articles they wrote reek of naive stupidity, where they boast that monk is their best designed class, since it has no dead levels and there's an "exciting feature" beyond every corner.
Paizo looked at all the mistakes of 3.5 and said: "We don't need to learn from this or improve upon this game's failings. We'll do everything in the exact same way on purpose". Paizo's incompetence is not born of naivety, but of malice.

And if there's something worse than the mechanics of Pathfinder, it's its fanbase, filled with weebs and degenerates, jacking off to monster girls and underage anime girls. Just one glance upon /pfg/ is enough to see everything your community has to offer.

How is Monk in Pathfinder? I love the concept but found the class a little weak in 5E.

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We'd love to say that we have good news for you.

Core monk is shit. Some archetypes are fantastic. Unchained monk is alright.

Casters with 9th level spells *can* break the game, but that really more due to select spells that people love to abuse than the fact that they're casters. Plus there's plenty of casters with 6th level spells that are well-balanced and fun to play, plus they're usually decent martials to boot.

So here is some actual advice.

Encounter design is relatively difficult in pathfinder as is. DSP's Path of War makes encounter design much more difficult due to their assumptions on how character defense should work.

Instead I point you towards Legendary Game's work on Legendary Rogue, Legendary Vigilante, and the like. They help make martials more interesting. If you head over to Pathfinder General there is a guy who has designed an Unchained Cavalier/Fighter/Gunslinger that make all three classes much more interesting and balanced in terms of campaign effectiveness.

Next is play below level 7. After level 7 once 4th and 5th level spells come into play full casters begin to outpace martials in out of combat utility to the point it needs to be addressed separately.

Next is don't let people bend the rules to walk all over the game, think through the consequences of spells. An example if Charm Person. Charm Person is not mind control despite how some people treat it. After it runs out the person knows you cast it on them as well. Think through the consequences of spells like these. Know that people are aware when they are forced to make a saving throw.

To summarize:
>use legendary games and /pfg/'s unchained martial homebrews to supplement martials
>play below level 7 if you can
>don't let players bend the rules to walk all over you
>think through the player's tools when designing encounters

People also pedal this picture even though it was purposefully made as a joke since essentially none of those work on a dragon.

Unchained Monk fixed a lot of monk's problems. Base monk is really bad. However it is what is called "tier 4". Meaning it does it's job well, but can't branch out into other jobs easily.

> Being this autistic

First of all OP, I'm terribly sorry you came here seeking actual help and advice, that's not what Veeky Forums is for. Veeky Forums is a circlejerk for people who hate whatever you like, regardless of what it is. If you had posted a question about 5E an equal number of basement dwelling trogs would have stampeded over, dicks in hard, tripping over each other to tell you how much 5E sucks and how hard you need to kill yourself.

So let me help you out instead. Pathfinder is like 5E but with more rules. Both games can trace themselves back to 3.5 but Pathfinder is a hydra-like bud that grew off and detached itself from 3.5. It has some differences but they are not as drastic as what 5E did.

Pathfinders lack of balance is an intrinsic part of that D&D DNA that traces its twisted path all the way back to the original White Box, only made worse as wizards and sorcerers where given more and more buffs so they couldn't keel over from a slight breeze at early levels. At tenth level a fighter can make up to three attacks on a turn assuming he does nothing else and if he's lucky, might kill one monster. At tenth level a wizard can fireball an entire room and then phase himself into the Ethereal plane the next and run the hell away.

Then you have clerics and druids which at high levels can caste powerful defensive spells, but can also heal themselves and others, and can wear armor and are pretty decent at melee combat.

As a first time player my advice is to stay away from the Rogue as there is another class out there that can do what it does better. It's a sad fact. I would also avoid the Core Monk as it's pathetically inferior to the Unchained Monk. Hybrid classes are wonky if you don't have familiarity with the mechanics of the two classes it combines, and Occult classes should be avoided as they are just strange. If you want to play a caster, go with Sorcerer.

No, literally the picture was made to fuck with people and bait people because most of the listed effects don't work on dragons.

>Slayer's pretty hard to fuck up with, so that might be a good jumping off point for a new player.
If you're playing with friends who understand that this is a cooperative game and that the goal is fun rather than breaking the system or being the main character, then the above is the only useful information you're going to find in this thread. Roll up a slayer, ignore the naysaying chimps, and have fun.

Don't.

Play literally anything else.

You will thank me for this later

>You know, I don't like Pathfinder either guys but if you could avoid whipping out your dicks and furiously jerking each other off about how much you hate Pathfinder when someone's asking for help that'd be great.

Well, it's like someone asking what's the best way to break his toe with a hammer and everyone tells him that's stupid and he shouldn't do it but then some cuck waltzes in talking about how breaking your toe with a hammer is a perfectly acceptable passtime and that anysayers should stop being judgemental.

> Being THIS autistic
You don't get it, do you.

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OP I really hope you show this thread to your group.

To everyone saying "Don't play pathfinder" what do you recommend instead?

Ok, what do I not get. The fact the picture is serving its purpose by fucking with me.

>As a first time player my advice is to stay away from the Rogue
Oh man, I had actually forgotten just awful the core rogue is. This is really great advice. If you like playing a sneaky guy, don't pick the rogue, because if you want to actually do anything with what the rogue gives you, you'll just be disappointed as a beginner.

I already have. The reactions are mixed.

Really depends on the kind of game you want.

fantasy. just shoot out anything Fantasy and what they are good for.

5e, allow Homebrew under DM's scrutiny if the lack of options is killing you. /r/UnearthedArcana for options.(because Veeky Forums doesn't get Shit done anymore)

DnD 5e. Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e. I've heard good things about Lamentations of the Flame Princess, but I can't vouch for it.

>Bring this autistic.
My God you're dense.

I'd recommend playing We Be Goblins and seeing how you like that.

It's not literally a dragon. It's a picture that's supposed to symbolize an encounter, a challenge. It could be a beholder or a bandit, or any monster at all.

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If he already knows 5e, he can stick with that if he just wants some uncomplicated beer&pretzels gaming.
For more crunchy stuff, there's quite a few Fantasy Heartbreakers that tackle the issue in different ways. Fantasy Craft is pretty good and people know a thing or two about it.
If you want to go grittier, you should leave the d20 behind. d100 games work great here, like Runequest 6. Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 1 or 2 is also an option.
High Fantasy can also be covered by superhero systems, more narrative bends are covered by 13th age (although most narrative games are simply generic, which is enough).
Maybe someone managed to do a fantasy PbtA game that's not Dungeon World.

I like exalted. The balance is fucked, but it at least agrees to be honest about it. You know the solar is better. The mechanics are simple at it's core and it is incredibly easy to spot the problem players from character creation. Just look for characters that have 5 dots in dex and 5 in one combat skills, 0 in all other combat skills, one perfect defense charm and 4/5ths of all the skills are at 0 dots. Or something along those lines.

Fantasycraft
Torchbearer
Castles and Crusades

Oh and of course there's the OSR which has a quite active thread on this board

Anima

I strongly argue against exalted. it's more autistic than even pathfinder.

What sub genre of fantasy, there are a lot with a lot of different assumptions.

Gonna say LotFP is god awful.

WHF has a lot of its own issues and does not give the same game experience in the slightest to pathfinder or most D&D games.

Symbaroum

No, I was literally in the thread where that picture was made. It was hand crafted as a troll picture to fuck with people. It's original purpose was to fuck with people.

Jesus Christ, you are a moron after all.

We don't want weeb shit. We are just looking for something easy to pick up but deep enough for last as long as possible without having to resort to third party/homebrew material to fix issues

Ok, please tell me why. I am not arguing that the wizard's tool box is not both larger and more able to deal with varied encounters. I'm saying that the picture you used in particular was made as a troll picture on Veeky Forums.

Unchained Monk is great if you want to punch people really hard a whole bunch. We're approaching the end of a Rise of the Runelords campaign and our party monk is capable of busting out nine attacks a round, 6 of which are at full BAB.

I appreciate the bumps but could you faggots fucking knock it off?

Gurps(3d6 roll under - the system)
sticking to 5e
Dnd 4e (heard good stuff)
Challenger(free rpg on drivetrhru)
You are fucking with people
not the picture

Do you want High Fantasy, Low Fantasy, Dark Fantasy, High Magic, Low Magic. Be more specific because systems have different assumptions.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST YOU'RE ONE AUTISTIC TWAT.

>Dnd 4e (heard good stuff)
Try to be a little less obvious with the bait, user.

Fuck it. Start rolling.

Ok, not the guy, but what are you trying to say here?

>galko
>slut
This must be bait, fullhouse.

how about your top picks for Low Fantasy and High.

I count three different people arguing with this autist. Are we being baited? I feel like I've been baited.

Now do you mean the classic definition of low & high fantasy or the popculture definition?

So says the guy dating the uppity slut.

That the dragon doesn't literally represent a dragon, it represents a tough encounter. Being anal about the fact that some of those things don't work on a dragon specifically is missing the forest for the trees.

> Low fantasy
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e.
Torchbearer

> High fantasy
DnD 5e.

Wait, what are you even arguing about? He's saying "that picture is correct, but was made to trigger people with the dragon". Is that incorrect? Is the picture not correct at all? Is it correct? I'm confused.

D&D 5e, D&D 4e, B/X or similar retroclones, The Black Hack, Searchers of the Unknown, AD&D, Heroes & Other Worlds.

Those are assuming you want stereotypical D&D fare.

>just shoot out anything Fantasy
Werewolf: The Apocalypse, Terra Primate with Dungeons & Zombies, Mutants & Masterminds/DC Adventures.

He's just shitposting to get a rise out of easily baited anons. It's as simple as shooting fish in a barrel since we're obviously in a troll thread anyways.

He means the best rpgs
low fantasy goes to gurps and wfrp
high fantasy goes to dnd 5e/4

Can I just get some good systems and I'll sort it out later?

That just means I KNOW what a slut is, user.

No, you don't understand what I am saying.

You are seeing it as that. Which it could easily represent that, and is correct if you take it as that. The image conveys a correct statement in that context.

HOWEVER, when the picture was originally made the creator of the picture put the dragon in an attempt to trigger people. Literally was the stated purpose of putting a dragon there.

I am not saying the picture is incorrect, I am saying the picture was designed to start arguments about the fact that half of those don't work on a dragon.

If taken in the context of dragon merely represents an encounter you are entirely correct. However a dragon picture was used by the creator for the stated purpose of trying to trigger people and start arguments. I am not saying this out of an assumption, but literally it was stated by the creator in the thread where that picture was made. That image originates on Veeky Forums.

Rolling.

> Literally being this dense

For those who actually tried to help where is a less autistic place I can go to discuss table top games?

No. Veeky Forums is actually the best place I've ever seen, which is saying a lot about every other place.
It might have something to do with tabletop hobby attracting antisocial autists.

Get better friends.

Reddit. Maybe. It's better than this thread at least. You might even be able to get actual answers.

What in what I stated was wrong. I am saying your interpretation is correct, but the creator of that picture was attempting to trigger people with how he presented it.