/anrg/ - Android Netrunner General: Everyone Loves Puppies Edition

I'm looking forward to Kakugo, a single card tax (two in PU) every time the runner passes it is pretty good. InstaParasite is a thing, but with Sifr that's true of any ice.

The Archivist seems like it could fire pretty often, so probably that. That said the balance is squarely in the Runner's favour at the moment, as they have incredible econ advantage over the corp. Not to mention any asset or upgrade play is effectively neutralized by Slums, among others. Corp side is going to need something really effective to swing the pendulum back to it, without being going so far to invalidate any Runner archetypes.

Why not?

Yeah, that does look nice.

I think he means Jamison advancements don't count for Obererth's bonus advancemnt (which they don't), but it's still good:
Sac a 0-pointer for oberth and advance once puts 3 tokens on
Sac a 1-pointer for oberth and advance once puts 4 tokens on
Sac a 2-pointer for oberth and advance once puts 5 tokens on
Sac a 3-pointer for oberth and advance once puts 6 tokens on

Sac a 4-pointer for oberth and advance once puts 7 tokens on which kind of craps out

Really think this is an ID which benefits from "when you score" agendas.
Also the forfeiting reduces your agenda density nicely.

>Also the forfeiting reduces your agenda density nicely.
Untrue, you still have to have agendas in your deck, and still have to score them. Agenda density is not impacted at all.

Yeah, phrased that badly - what I meant is that it means you go through agendas pretty fast, even if the points aren't forever, and sacrificing an agenda to score an agenda is a bad deal for the runner.

Reclamation Order and possibly Fast Track seem like good splashes.
Thematic too: Jamison recovering their delivery rockets makes a whole lot of sense, and as a Corporation they're dynamic and audacious enough that fast-tracking really works

While they're still in the game Atlas will be amazing, seeing as turning Hostile into Atlas gives you a counter on it, and False Lead can give a great way to score Government Takeover

Gangsign decks, like Iain and especially Leela are going to be pretty rough though - she's an enemy of all Weyland decks, bouncing advanced things, but she'll do horrible things to Jamison

How would the meta evolve if we rotate SanSan and Mumbad instead of Genesis and Spin?

>What card are you most excited to see hitting the tables in Red Mars?

As I've been clamoring for a while now: Anarch Link decks with Persephone and Archivist. Definitely going to be fun to play.

Corp wise, while the IDs have been great and inspiring, Standoff takes the cake. Lovely design on that card. It's basically a triple operation that gives a zero point agenda and something under the runner's control whether destruction or gain. And then the possibility of both players going into self-destruct mode is just so much pure unadulterated fun. Not to mention the baiting + Stock-Buy-Back plays.

>what Red Mars card do you see threatening the Netrunner "balance" meta once again?

Balance between factions, or between corp and runner?

If the former, I'm thinking enough anti-trash protection and derrez support might turn the table on it and ICE destruction.

If the later,granted we basically now next to nothing of NBN and HB this cycle, I'm thinking the W advance* stuff has potential to be ridiculous.

*: I don't know how to call it, it's not just fast... "powered"?

>SanSan and Mumbad
Why Mumbad in there? Wouldn't it be San San and Lunar?

San San and Mumbad though:

San San
Big Corp cards: Team Sponsorship, all the Renovations but mainly Oaktown, the Scientist ice, Batty, Tour Guide, Breaker Bay.

Runner side there's: Faust, Clot, Adjusted Chronotype, DDoS, Peddler, Career Fair, Drive By, Fisk Seminar, Hyperdriver, DaVinchi, Film Critic, Paparazzi

Looking over San San I think there's still a lot of uncovered ground there, especially on the corp side I think

Mumbad, well obviously you've got your political and alliance assets (and events, but most of those are fine), some ice that's more interesting than amazing and a couple of niche cards.
Really the Politcals and Alliance stole the show here, though a few things are really under-explored, like Harishchandra.

Runner-wise you've got Plop and Councilfam, the commercial-grade hardware (much like cybernetics, there's not been much done with that), Salsette Slums, Artist Colony, Patron, Sports Hopper and Guru, turning wheel, and last but not least, Rebirth.

Mumbad had a lot more moderate stuff for the runner - especially when it came to damage prevention

>moderate
moderately-powered but interesting is what I mean

On the one hand, I get what you mean with the los advancement bonus, on the other, rezzing Oberth *is* the combo with the ID ability.

>*: I don't know how to call it, it's not just fast... "powered"?
Given it's based around Jamison and Oberth, maybe Rocket Advance?

Stupid idea (yes, don't say it, it's not balanced);

Chain Malfunction
3 cost
Current

Usual Current stuff.
The first time each turn the corp rezzez a piece of ICE during a run, you may derezz another piece of ICE whose cost is equal or inferior to the piece of ICE just rezzed.

Criminal 4 influence

Absolutely ridiculous. It would be op even if it cost 6c.

Make it 2 or 1 cost, and require the runner to pay the rez cost of the ice (including any additional costs), then it would be fine.

I agree, but I do love the base idea.
Making it a run event kinda kills the whole chain reaction bit, and that was the fluff inspiration.

And I like the counter-plays left to corp with rez costs - the idea of having to plan and time your rezzes right..

Yeah, upping the cost for the runner definitely seemed like the way to go, just didn't know what angle to take. Credits? (Unpreventable) Tags? Self-damage doesn't feel really crim.

Oh, well; just a silly idea.

Some Runner
Faction TBD
>does it really matter whether they're natural, G-Mod, or cyborg?
45/15
0 Base Link
>You take your first turn before the corporation.

How abusable is this? I think the closest comparison is Andromeda.

Miraju looks like pretty cool HQ protection.

Absolutely bonkers. Wanton Destruction, multiaccess, siphon...

There's been a lot of Gooru jokes with that "take the first turn" idea. Keyhole/Amped up alone opens disgusting possibilities.

Shit, I forgot about Account Siphon. You could never have a runner like this as long as that's around.

Maybe if you forbid running on that first turn, but it would still need heavy deck size and inf nerfs.

>How abusable is this
Ridiculously so

Make them a 0 inf shaper and maybe it'd only be mildly broken (though NEXT would laugh)

AgInfusion + pic related would be brutal, especially if there's a trap in the Anson server - spaceport traps would be pretty nasty

Which is why "pay the rez cost" aka bribing is fine for me, and if you include additional costs it means you can't just derez an Archer for 4. Bad pub ice becomes terrible though, maybe add "remove 1 bad pub, if any". Personally I like it for enabling Muertos Gang Member shenanigans.

General central protection really, counters Indexing too, though Siphon is relatively unaffected unless Sub Boosted. Actually, Sub Boosting this would make the server immune to everything but Inside Job and Parasite. Funny interaction with Omar though.

You can always first turn Peace in Our Time if that's the case. A continuous benefit for the corp might be better, like 1 credit at the start of each turn or something.

Ah, never mind, you need to break the *printed* subroutine for the redirect to fire. Smart wording choice.

Why SanSan and Lunar? I mentioned SanSan and Mumbad because I believe SanSan was when Lukas went downhill with his design.

Because Lunar and SanSan are the next two to rotate after Genesis/Spin. Guess that's what user thought the question was about.

Yeah, everyone raised an eyebrow at that wording.

I was going to disagree on San San, then I remembered DDoS, Critic and Faust+Chronotype - though I think the corp side of San San was alright, and most of the cycle was fine.

For Mumbad the main issue was with the Museum-Temple-MCH trifecta - that enabled too much bullshit, and Faust meant asset spam became way, way too reliable.
Bioethics shouldn't have been too much of an issue, but again Museum and MCH made it OP while Hostile IG kept it around.
Exchange of Information was too powerful because BN is too powerful, but as a concept I like it a lot - non-kill tag punishment is never really a bad thing imho

Yeah, I was wondering why those when Lunar is next in line for rotation

I really wonder if they will be attempting to curb asset spam. Slums is a fine counter, but it hurts other asset and upgrade plays a lot more. So does just giving the runner more money. I like asset spam as a concept, but prison decks just seem not fun.

Asset spam was fine before Museum existed. Proof is NEH, even if the ID was broken with 17 influence imo, the asset spam was a viable and natural strategy. One that Criminals exploited with SecTest and Bank jobs.
When people complain about asset spam they are not talking about asset spam, they are talking about Prison decks and recursion cards bringing over and over the same assets. Even politicals are fine, just powerful assets with a weak trash cost, as it should be (ie melange, sundew).
But the recursion gimmick had to be countered, hence the Slums.
Honestly, I'd just put all the recursion cards in the MWL and see hell happen.

Yeah, I agree - I like using MCH, and I think it's a very valuable tool, but when it combines with asset spam it just gets obnoxious.
Not really sure how it could still work and not be, though being Unique helps a lot.
Maybe not shuffling assets?

Though it did get people to consider decks with more cards, which was neat.

>Honestly, I'd just put all the recursion cards in the MWL and see hell happen.

But then Anarch hyper trashing shenanigans...

>But the recursion gimmick had to be countered, hence the Slums.
Sure, but it still hurts decks that use assets and upgrades sparingly a lot more compared to asset spam and prison decks, which are probably what the card is targeted at (collateral damage seems to happen pretty often lately). I want asset spam/prison to be curbed so that Slums sees less play, which means the other deck types can do better.

All recursion cards on the MWL would make me sad, personally. I can live with just Friends on MWL I think, as long as Preemptive isn't.

Also, Friends in High Places vs Salsette Slums is pretty neat fluff wise.

If anything, I'd say what you want to hurt is mass install of assets/upgrades.

A crim card with a two credit swing (one lost for corp, one gained for runner) for each new server created? Current maybe?
Or one credit swing, but resource, and targeting install inside a server, indiscriminately? That way you can still benefit even against non asset spam decks...

I think a card that makes creating servers cost 1-2 credits would be good - non-spammy decks usually don't need more than 2 or 3 at most, while for Spam you have to keep re-making servers again and again.

Maybe in crim?

That's a pretty Criminal way of handling it, a current would be fitting since prison decks don't plan on scoring anyway.

Actually, here's a resource I would've rather seen instead of Slums:
"Unique
At the start of each of your turn, place a power counter on this card for each remote server the corp has. At the end of every run, remove a power counter from this card.

The corp has 1 bad publicity for every 2 counters on this card."

Unless I'm misreading, that basically means a scoring server and a single PAD Campaign will generate one Bad Pub every two turns if the runner runs once per turn? Way too good I think.

I kinda like the base idea of basically giving free trashes when the corp goes overboard with assets. Would have to work differently though.

Whenever the corp rezzes an asset, put X credits on Card0, where X is equal to the number of rezzed assets. Use those credits only to trash assets.

Also, given how often I can see people running 3+ assets in one turn nowadays, was Skulljack a missed opportunity?

...

Yeah you're right, I forgot that sometimes runners don't even run that much. Maybe an additional remove one counter at the end of the runner's turn, so that it doesn't do anything against single remotes, and 2 remotes would give a counter back? Or just remove 2 counters instead of only 1.

I like yours too, basically a reverse Tech Writer.

>was Skulljack a missed opportunity?
Sort of . Really did not need to cost 2 and do a Brain.
A brain and free, 2 and 2 meat, but not 2 and a brain

The cybernetics/genetics seem just a bit of a missed opportunity - outside of chronotype, anyway, and that was pretty much just Wyldside

The fluff is pretty decent, and it's honestly surprising an RPG based on it isn't out yet.

I suspect the reason we haven't seen an Android RPG via the acquisition of Legend of the Five Rings. This also explains Worlds of Android.

>I suspect the reason we haven't seen an Android RPG via the acquisition of Legend of the Five Rings.
Is there a word missing here?

This is amazing, NASX+Mark Yale and a scored Firmware Updates are 25 credits profit.

GRNDL First turn, Restructure, Bryan Stinson, Restructure. Start game with 28 credits.

I feel there could be one of these with a weyland exec

Nice spot, two triggers per counter on Yale means twice the token numbers. You do need a bit of money in the bank, but that's one hell of a potential jump.

>Is there a word missing here?

Oh god I'm contagious.

As for why there's no Android RPG yet... well business side, RPGs aren't much of moneymakers, especially given the work needed to pull a good game.

Given how creative the scene has been in recent years, probably better to release a fluff book and let players chose and hack their systems of choice depending on what aspect of the campaign setting they want to explore.

Just 3 credits to rez them both. Not counting the setup to score Firmware Updates, one can install NASX, install Mark, rez both, use Mark to be rich, trash NASX to be filthy filthy rich.

I do wonder if there would be another volume of WoA in the future? Further expansion of details of events like the 23 seconds incident and presumably what's going to happen on Mars (Android Wars?) would be nice to have.

>what's going to happen on Mars
There's a pretty big section on Mars actually, and I think the cycle there will be more like San San or Luna - not based around an event like Flashpoint was.
Mumbad was somewhere between the two

It is indeed a short and sordid history regarding Mars. Still though, some of the revealed cards imply an upsurge of Martian resistance against Corp/FedGov rule, so it's a possibility the timeline might advance.

Whether the Martians actually succeed is hard to tell, considering the presence of both Clone and Warroid armies just waiting to be activated.

If it's of the same quality as the first, while updating/completing what's already in the first one, I'd definitely welcome a second volume.

One Mars card we didn't mention yet, Adjusted Matrix does look like it could make a big splash...

>cardgamedb.com/index.php/netrunner/android-netrunner-deck-builder (not recommended)

While I dislike the growing number of small mistakes/errors that never seem to get corrected (see Apocalypse being an Anarch card still from D&D's release for one), I do think it's a useful browsing tooll with its search functions.

If you add the clause "during this turn you cannot make a run" I'd be interested.
Or maybe "You may only run once, and no run events may be played."
Basically make it so that it isn't disgusting with siphon or "on run" effects.

You'd have to defend NASX for atleast a turn to use up Firmware, but that is pretty neat.

It would depend on if you could use it without pumping strength or not I'd say. If not, it's at most saving a single credit, and would only really be used in Apex I'd say.

Well, you can install both NASX and Yale the same turn you use NASX ability to trash itself, well after Firmware Updates is scored.
No need to defend anything except HQ.

>It would depend on if you could use it without pumping strength or not
You can't - normal breaker rules apply - but you can use it to break any sort of ice that way

Wonder what happens if you tried that with an ice on Dinosaurus?

Speaking of, I got a very rare victory the other day, as the corp - total lockout.

Opponent was using Dino-Sage, but I had 3 advancable walls - I got them all above his max strength and it was gg

You can only use Firmware to advance ice once per turn.

Read Mark Yale.

Ah, so you're only using Firmware for money then, cool. Thought his ability only fired on the side for some reason, my bad.

Is that rare? I guess it depends on what are you aiming with your deck. Total lockout is kind of the purpose of my rig shooter and I managed to do it more than a few times. I usually aim at their decoders first, so my Wendigos and Wormhole canbdo all the dirty job.
This one game agaisnt Geist I trashed all his breakers, but he played a Gang Signs variation so he could still win.
In the end I managed to rez Corporate Town and trash everything he had, was a close game.

That sounds really cool, didn't think rigshooter would be viable these days

HB I presume?
For Agsec, Lockdown and the recycling thereof

GRNDL, it was during summer, and my meta is weird, so I don't know how it compares with current Whizzards decks. Probably not that good.

The 3 things that I would say hit rigshooter the most:
>The conspiracy breakers.
They're not the cheapest to install, and outside of Paperclip they don't have the best breaking ratios, but trashing them is nigh worthless.
>Ice destruction at an all time high
The gold standard for ice destruction was, iirc, big fuckoff sentries. Those are only slightly better than worthless right now, and if they do fire they'll probably only fire once. And the power of THAT is limited because:
>Ice destruction uses lots of recursion support
Parasite being elevated to godly levels of power has made Deja Vu and clone chip come back in a big way (not that any of the 3 were ever really gone) - sure, it eats influence, but the amount of recursion people pack to support the archetype also smacks rigshooter as side-effect

Honourable mention:
>Sacrificial Construct
With Baba Yaga and a couple of other cards (Tapwrm) entering the card pool, I've seen sac con come back a bit.
Tapeworm is brutal, don't underestimate it.
And if you are running Baba then know that 1 Construct is not enough - I've personally killed a full Baba who was only using one (which led to a ragequit over the way I did it - using Orion's "fire other ice" sub->Wormhole-> Orion's trash sub, but still)

Oh, and you'll occasionally meet people with Nexus-power tap, but that's less common now there's easier ways to ignore your opponent's stuff

That said, I'd love to see your list

And Lockdown + Blacklist helps a lot I would think

>gold standard for ice destruction
gold standard for *program trashing*

Core set Anarch have no economy cards. What card would you pull from other sets and boxes to remedy this (don't worry about what to replace, that's on me)?

Thanks for the summary, I was curious about how rigshooters were doing these days.
My list is from before 23 seconds, since then I have moved to BoN, so you won't see anything spectacular. I'll post it once I get home anyway.
As I mentioned, I didn't focus on big sentries (besides Archer and Nebula) or anything like that. Playing Chronos Protocol I identified that Runners without a decoder were more vulnerable than those without fracters or killers. So I moved to GRNDL and picked up Wendigo (sometimes as a barrier) and Wormhole to lock their programs, and then fire sentries like Rototurret and Cobra from afar. Followed by Blacklist or scoring a Chronos Project.
But really, Wendigo, Wormhole, and Swordsman for AI were key.

my group is picking up Netrunner.
I got some cards second hand. core set and some extra (no idea what data packs)

I came up with this deck for our upcoming newbie tourney event. is it any good?

id: Gabriel Santiago

+++events+++
2x Acc. Siphon
2x Diesel
3x Easy Mark
3x Forged Activation Orders
3x Inside Job
3x Spec. Order
3x Sure Gamble
3x The Maker's Eye

+++hardware+++
1x The Toolbox

+++programs+++
2x Aurora
2x Crypsis
3x Femme Fatale
2x Leviathan
2x Ninja

+++resources+++
3x Armitage Codebusting
2x Bank Job
3x Crash Space
3x Sacrificial Construct

deck size: 45
influence 15/15

It's ok.
You need more money cards, a lot less icebreakers (you can drop them all to 1x because you have 3x Special Order and 3x Sacrificial Construct), and the Toolbox is very overpriced.

can you suggest some tweaks?

Cyberfeeder and Stimhack are technically economy cards, so is Armitage. In faction though, notables are Day Job, Queen's Gambit and Liberated Accounts, of which I think Gambit would be best. Out of faction, if Noise, then Cache.

Swap the toolbox for desperado.
Sneakdoor Beta wins games on its own sometimes. I've won plenty of games as Gabe without drawing any cards because I had one.
Crypsis is not necessary in this deck, you have a normal icebreaker suite and Crypsis is sloooow.
Don't be afraid to import breakers from other factions (especially if you only need 1x because you can fetch and protect it).

Best core Programs:
2 corroder, 2 gordian blade, 1 Femme Fatale, 1 Mimic, 2 Datasuckers, 2 Sneakdoor Beta. 1 Deja vu.
Theoretically you could go Yog instead of Gordian. Riskier, but cheaper.

Cyber feeder and Stimhack save credits, they don't GIVE you any.

Are you actually discussing that? It seems a pointless difference when the relevant issue is gaining tempo over the corp.

Both of those cards don't get you money to set up, which is very important.

I'll argue that Cyberfeeder actually helps you setup, as long as you're Noise or playing many virus. And sometimes you don't have time to setup, you need 9 credits burst to break a Firewall and dont have time to get them fluid.
The great thing about the core anarch setup is that it uses a lateral way of paying the runs over sheer fluidity like Criminals and Shapers.
It destroys the ice, uses virus counters as coin, and the setups from Cyberfeeder and stimhack are enough to blast through.

Rich anarchs were a mistake.

Or, as says, they pay for things differently - if you're custom-rewrite user from the last thread, one of the anarch themes that has fallen by the wayside (and gone to shaper, who they shared it with) was the idea that anarchs run very cheaply, paid for by alternative methods rather than raw cash advantage. Which is also why scrubber and imp are things.

Actually, I tell a lie about it falling by the wayside - three of anarch's all time most OP cards emphasise this faction-theme: D4v1d does it, Sifr massively does it, and Parashite does it (along with their ice trashing theme)

Anarchs running things like Cyberfeeder, Spinal Modem and and Skulljack (and datasucker, but that's less cool, and moves towards OP) is much better than having them swimming in cash - those cards just need to be a bit better

Yes, I'm the rework guy (working roject title Nyetrunner).
That's why I like Day Job and Queens Gambit: They aren't the most efficient things in the world, and they have interesting downsides (taking the whole turn, risking the corp getting value from advancements). I don't mean to make them rich, but a single money card wouldn't be too much, I don't think.
Besides, I want to introduce some minor way to splash econ in Core so you don't just take all your faction's and neutral econ in any deck and call it a day.

I'm generally one of the few defenders of CyberFeeder, so not dissing the card, but still, it is true, Anarch in core (and really up to at least Spin I'd say) were really hurting for set up econ.

That said, my hunch is that it was part of the balancing act of core, so I don't know that I'd want to "correct" it.

What rebalance would Hard at Work need to be deemed viable? More credits per click? Zero install cost?

>so you don't just take all your faction's and neutral econ in any deck and call it a day.
That's literally FFG's advice for your first deck, except it's all neutral cards, not just econ.

Which is actually a pretty good idea, very simple, no worries about influence and things

Good luck with Nyetrunner, I am genuinely interested - though I don't agree with 100% removing parasite's trash, and I think Yog and Mimic should be str 2.
And Morningstar in WLA is the real breaker to complete the suite - it should be better, corroder not as good

>Zero install cost
No chance, but lower than 5

>That's literally FFG's advice for your first deck, except it's all neutral cards, not just econ.
Oh sure, it would still be passable, but I want it to be a real choice even when you know the game well.

>removing parasite's trash, and I think Yog and Mimic should be str 2.
>And Morningstar in WLA is the real breaker to complete the suite - it should be better, Corroder not as good
All the changes I have mentioned are up in the air and not final even for the first pass. I am aware all of those need changing.

Had to dig an old post:

archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/text/Magnum opus kati jones hard work/

I don't think zero is that unfair to be honest.

Cool, just airing muh opinions

In raw power I don't think it'd TOO bad, but as an overall anarch card, especially an early one? [early being important for emphasising where factional weaknesses lie]
Yeah, nah.

That sort of drip econ, even with a click cost, shouldn't be free - I'd rate it at 3, maybe, 2.
Depending on how fast you want the general pace of the game I guess.

Random musing - with how rich runners are right now, is Monolith worth a second look? (first look being Big Girls Play)

I do this thing where I take the core decks and "develop" them using new cards, but trying to keep the old feeling of the deck.
With Noise what I did was to replace Armitage with Day Job and Access to GlobalSec with I've Had Worse to speed up the deck. I also cut 1 stimhack and 1 cyberfeeder for some more fluidity (I think it was 2 Lucky Find at the time). These changes really helped.
At some point I finally gave in and included 3 Aesops and 3 Cache, because that combo for Noise is just that good. Thank god Cache is Lunar and won't rotate for a year yet.

>Thank god Cache is Lunar and won't rotate for a year yet.
Outside of Noise, it's been replaced as the best crim virus though - "the runner gains 1/5 of your total money each turn" is BS unless you can jump on it straight away

Huh, after my changes to the anarch rig, they might be the most setup focused of all the factions. And crim becomes even more aggressive. Not sure how I feel about that.