I was posting about this idea in another thread a few days ago and thought I'd share it with the rest of Veeky Forums and see what you had to add or comment about it:
>Sure, the Orcish Empire has sacked, raided, destroyed many of the neighboring kingdoms, and mass-slaughtered all the noble and ruling class to replace with orcish rulers.. but under Orcish rule: Food quality and distribution is up, the poor and homeless have been given jobs and housing- even the previously infirmed as Orcish medicine excels at prosthesis, political infighting and corruption is non-existent, and freedom of religion is once again legal.
>Really, though, life has never been better under the rule of the Dragon King: his long life span has guaranteed peace & stability throughout the kingdom, the dragon worshipping church has never been so generous with their miracles and public outreach, holidays are often, frequent, and joyous- The Dragon King holding a celebration in his glory almost twice a month, and the country never safer due to our order of knights blessed with the ability to shapeshift into Dragon Men.
>Life is much more simpler now that the Omni-Druid has destroyed the kingdom: hunting and gathering only take up 6 hours of work every 2nd day, life expectancy is up thanks to the clean air, abundant natural food sources, and not having to mine for coal or shovel human shit, prayers to the Omni-druid are answered with blessings of strength, good hunts, and increased sexual endowment, and the Omni-druid is always accepting new druids to spread the word and the wild.
Thoughts? Concerns? Your own examples/scenarios, Veeky Forums?
Christopher Sanchez
Cool stuff but if life is perfect then for what reason do the PC's have to adventure?
Xavier Martin
Adventuring is my perfect life.
Jose Walker
>The villain won and was a genuinely evil person, but his hedonistic lifestyle led to an early death. Life returns to normal in a generation, his successors, though not altruistic, were forced to maintain a rule no worse than the former kingship for practical political reasons
Charles Rivera
Boring.
No reason to adventure.
Kayden Phillips
>life is perfect
I wouldn't go anywhere so far as to say "life is perfect", it's more about the theme of everybody being lead to believe the EVIL would basically destroy the world as everyone knew it and..
When it actually happened; life pretty much carried on for the common folk.
>Boring. >No reason to adventure.
I mean, technically if you tried to stop the 'EVIL' you'd be considered enemies, terrorists, disturbers of the peace by the new establishment, so that could be reason enough.
Maybe go on a pilgrimage to your criminalized "good" deity or something.
Cameron Jenkins
The lich succeeded in taking over the land by brute force, using his horde of undead and his evil spells to slaughter everyone in sight. But then he animated the dead to serve in his horde, and using his special lich technique, allowed them to retain their intelligence. Without any pesky humans to bother them, they were all quite happy being immortal, not requiring sustenance or having a reason to labor, and getting to be with their old friends and family forever. The lich himself ended up not being a tyrant after all- quite the opposite, actually, he set up schools that taught magic that was previously forbidden by the humans, magic that brought about a new era of enlightenment, he ruled with a fair hand, he was forgiving (after all, it's not like he can execute you if you're already dead) and he dispensed advice and help to even the most common folk. He just can't stand living creatures, but now that no one's alive anymore, it's okay.
Tyler Cox
Like the other posters, I think while this is sort of interesting, it doesn't lead to adventure or tension.
Maybe something like >the dragon king dude has maintained this peace & stability not with strong institutions and prosperity but mostly through fear and personal charisma >he also should have died decades ago but has been extending his life through [subtly nefarious magical means] that, while totally uninteresting to most of the population, are somehow draining the world's life-force [replace with whatever magical gobbledygook you like] and will result in utter ruination if allowed to continue
so then you have a very strong reason to adventure, but still have the tension between "we're doing this for the greater good" vs. "well actually people are pretty OK right now and we're about to fuck everything up"
Colton Gutierrez
>The reason why things seem so great is because (insert overlord here) has Secret Police (the group) that put down dissenters before they can accrue too much attention from the sheeple.
Lucas Edwards
Rattle-Fucking-Rattle i would play the shit out of that.
Owen Roberts
How are they evil then? If the Orcish Empire does all that, even if not out of humanitarianism so much as practicality, how are they more evil than any other country or empire throughout history that's conquered others for want of land and resources but also brought progress and prosperity?
Jaxon Cruz
>Orc Ruler Battle skirmish to please their God, leading to a arena like game. >Dragon Lord Need a lot of work to supply the ceremonies and it become a religious thing to celebrate it with such zeal. Theater play game for entertainment. >Omni-Druid Over population and not enough room. A hunting season predator style.
Samuel Ortiz
I actually had an idea for a game where I would pull a Samurai Jack and have the BBEG fling them like 50ish years into the future. Some old folks might still oppose him, but most of the new generation actually like him, but overall the kingdom is prosperous.
Jason Gray
>I don't care if he's protecting people from the monsters. Before I take his head, I will bathe his kingdom in apostle blood and take his dream from him.
Adam Hall
Are you sure that dragon is actually evil, though? It sounds like if he started evil he shifted alignment decades ago. Like the story of the warlike emperor who one day found himself sick of fighting and instead swore to be an advocate of peace.
Brayden Bell
>that last one
A'ight, but what of those who were caught in the expanding wild without the skills to survive it (due to having been tradesmen or scholars)?
Is it just a sort of "nobody cares, they deserved to die" or did the Omni-Druid ease them into it somehow?
Grayson Kelly
>A'ight, but what of those who were caught in the expanding wild without the skills to survive it (due to having been tradesmen or scholars)?
Probably any combination of: Dead as fuck, converted to druidism/shamanism/whatever, or they're berry pickers.
Jace Hughes
Most people in the thread seem to have the concern that the rather tolerable new regimes give the players a lack of things to do. So a few ideas that could work within the confines of the OP:
>"Good" returns. The prince of the old kingdom has returned to rescue his father's throne from the forces of evil. Would the players rather return to the old system, or fight to preserve the new one?
>Nefarious undertones. The new regime seems nice, but there are things afoot. Perhaps the new monarch is secretly doing evil things, while the prosperity is a guise to keep the populace distracted.
>Evil aftermath. The new regime is great... until it falls apart. The monarch dies, and nobody is really sure what's going to happen now. The nation is having an identity crisis, as nobody seems to be sure what happens next.
Zachary Rivera
>implying your PC's arn't from another kingdom being evil edgy shits by fucking up another domain.
Gabriel Smith
Isn't that basically history? A rampaging and violent group wrecks everything, but things turn out somewhat okay later?
William Ramirez
These all really should have a downside, if you have a perfect society than the players can go home and there's nothing to be done
Nathaniel Martinez
pax orca? pax orcica?
Samuel Ortiz
Im actually trying to inverse the idea up upon its head.
Adventures complete the quest but the consequences lead to even more chaos and evil.
>That princess they finally free? Kills her royal family and rules kingdome with iron fist.
>That dragon they killed? Made them orks and goblins job of getting out through mountains and pillaging cities much easier?
>The curse they lifted from that village? Its was important forestry spot and important trade route, now the strong country cuts whole swathes of ancient wood making elven and human relations hot enough to warrant a war of genocide... thanks adventurers.
If you have any more ideas they are welcome. Might start thread on itself but i don't want to shitpost if its unnecessary.
Adam Hall
The Villain won. Mmhmmm, So real life then?
Jeremiah Clark
Your idea is trash and reeks of "Hey, guys, maybe necromancers are actually GOOD, and it's the paladins who are evil!".
Brody Phillips
Wow, that was a really deep and thought-provoking post. I bet you must've had to read like 10 books to become this insightful.
Owen Phillips
The problem with this, I think, is that it rather steals the players' victories away from them. Once and a while it's alright - particularly if setting up a villain - but I'm never too comfortable with basically telling the players that their efforts turned back on themselves, that what they were trying to achieve just resulted in a worse situation.
I've been on the receiving end of that far too many times and it is anything but fun.
Dylan Williams
Oh come on, you can have lots of reasons to go adventuring besides defeating The Evil Overlord. Personal gain, duty, ideals, proving a point, rebellion, etc.
Grayson Morgan
just do like this
>thank you heroes for defeating the necromancer and aiding us against the murderfuck cannibal clan. now as the new hegemons of the region, we'd be proud to have you take part in the planned genocide and ruthless imperialist conquest of all surrounding regions! >if they fix this, the next person with the opportunity was also turbohitler all along >and the next >it's evil all the way down
Aaron Collins
>Really, though, life has never been better under the rule of the Dragon King: his long life span has guaranteed peace & stability throughout the kingdom, the dragon worshipping church has never been so generous with their miracles and public outreach, holidays are often, frequent, and joyous- The Dragon King holding a celebration in his glory almost twice a month, and the country never safer due to our order of knights blessed with the ability to shapeshift into Dragon Men.
Huh, that's basically how things were going in my setting. That's how things still are, but secretly, as dragon ruler officially died.
Justin Edwards
>books >when youtube vids explaining everything and anything exist Lmao fuck off gramps
Luis White
>Orcs All those bad things are gone because everyone is dead or enslaved. The Orcs don't care what gods you pray to, so long as you keep mining that fucking salt.
>Dragon King Constant economic collapse due to excessive partying and reckless spending of resources. You live in an oppressive North Korean style police state that's controlled via propaganda.
>Omni-Druid Literal, actual barbarism envelopes the land, literacy vanishes as all the books burn, and humanity is reduced to animal state. Good fucking job omni-druid.
Leo Walker
I like this, this is a good way to do it. Honestly just take a look from history and you'll get plenty of campaign ideas for a "the world I live in is controlled by evil but it's complicated" setting
>Orcs win So, the mongols basically. They murdered and destroyed anyone who resisted, but co-opted everyone who didn't. Tax the shit out of the whole thing and keep doing mongol/orc shit. Is it really that bad of a world, or is it the best system for the time being?
>Dragon King He dies, his country fractures between his 7 dark lieutenants. Literally just Syria, or the Roman Empire. Campaign is super political and complex with healthy dashes of ethnic cleansing, because we all know the big bad just keeps people from going tribal on each other
This is a good idea, but I agree with , it is, on the other hand, a great way to set up the next session. You won the last game, but now you have to deal with the political fallout for the next session
Ian Lee
That's not real evil now is it?
Oliver Moore
This dude right here is correct
William Roberts
>the NPC can't be turbohitler all along if you were actually turbohitler all along
William Lewis
>Evil won, but life actually isn't so bad. So it wasn't evil. It was just 'the other guy' being depicted as evil by the guy that would have liked to stay in power.
It's not a bad theme or storyline, but it's not very out-there or surprising, either. It's basically history.
Hunter Peterson
>I've been on the receiving end of that far too many times and it is anything but fun.
Hits right in the heart user.
Agree... actually i was trying to simplify it for sake of post but you are absolutely right.
I should clarify that In my campaigning there is a 'reason' why everything turns to shit and that's the main plot actually.
Though if im being honest as much as i agree with you i don't think it always mean the things players do are moot. Sometimes you can just clean shit up again, that village for example gives simply more plot hooks that are now even more grand. Simple 'lift the curse' becomes 'bring two rival nations together' so not only it brings campaigning forward if needed, but also shows that the world is far more rich and complex and every action has consequences in that complex world. It turns simple dungeon crawlers (not like i have something against them) into more rich narrative.
Adrian Foster
Yeah, it does work if used sparingly. If used consecutively, however, I find that it saps the will to live/play and inspires a bitter animosity towards the GM.
Not that I'm still bitter about the time when I tried to rescue the soul of a young girl whose father was haunting me from a horrible goddess/demon to the point where I allowed him to possess me, use his magic to save her, and ended up nearly dying in the process...
Only to find out that the safe place we brought her to was, in fact, infected by the demon-goddess so she got the girl anyways.
Bonus: Finale of the campaign was me unintentionally sacrificing my soul to the demon-goddess.
TOTALLY. NOT. BITTER.
Lincoln Bailey
>evil won, but life actually isn't so bad
Why would anyone want to use the real world as a setting?
Wyatt Martinez
U wot
Wyatt Moore
>Evil won >the only thing that changes is increased taxes and the king now plays his lute before dawn, really poorly.
Brandon Ross
>>Sure, the Orcish Empire has sacked, raided, destroyed many of the neighboring kingdoms, and mass-slaughtered all the noble and ruling class to replace with orcish rulers.. but under Orcish rule: Food quality and distribution is up, the poor and homeless have been given jobs and housing- even the previously infirmed as Orcish medicine excels at prosthesis, political infighting and corruption is non-existent, and freedom of religion is once again legal.
That's a wonderfully painted world, and YEAH, that's better. But would traditional orcs not say... Kill the Lower Class first, then the middle class THEN storm the well guarded castles? Also no eating people? Food distribution would be way up when humans breed like rabbits and are so succulent. If not eating people then at very least starting Slavery, humans becoming the slave class?
Freedom of religion is once again legal? We are talking Fantasy land D&D here right? Religion has generally always been free, even the evil ones (just don't kill people). This isn't historical Earth.
I mean those are some damn civilized orcs that invaded, and very humanitarian- which was been rebranded Orcuitarian by warlord Throat-Cutter the Kind
David King
>>Nefarious undertones. >The new regime seems nice, but there are things afoot. Perhaps the new monarch is secretly doing evil things, while the prosperity is a guise to keep the populace distracted.
this maybe at the expense of a lesser utilized character class like the dwarves >Orcs now control the contracts for the Dwarven gold mines int he kingdom >Orcs hike tariffs to get more from dwarven trade >Dwarves rebel >Orcs crush them by putting an embargo on the kingdoms food going to the dwarves >starves them out until they start digging for more gold >the whole thing is suppressed and instead portrayed as "economic growth"
