ONE PRIMARCH TURNS TRAITOR

>ONE PRIMARCH TURNS TRAITOR
>ONE PRIMARCH RETURNS TO THE FOLD

Which do you think? And how much of an asspull would be required?

Lionel Johnson "turns". Actually his true loyalties just come to light.

Alpharius was the good guy all along.

Russ turns traitor

Corax Traitor because he's an emo git no one cares about.
Alpharius loyalist because not a daemon.

Magnus turns good, Lionel Johnson was a traitor all along.

An astronomical asspull that out does bethesdas "Warp in the west" Bullshit in oblivion which to this day still holds the largest asspull in history.

Also i really hope they dont turn that shitty meme into reality. Because yeah its good for a giggle, but its already been established that Lion is loyal. I would not be against them saying the inner circle is tainted because most of them suck any way.

>Also i really hope they dont turn that shitty meme into reality. Because yeah its good for a giggle, but its already been established that Lion is loyal.

>After 10,000 years of Alpha Legion traitor fuckery it turns out THEY WERE LOYAL ALL ALONG LOL!
>After 10,000 years of the Dark Angels defending the Imperium (and the Lion being asleep and doing nothing) it turns out THEY WERE SECRETLY TRAITORS ALL ALONG!

No. I'm sure GW could write in some stupid shit to warp and twist the history and narrative of both legions so that it'd work, but like others have said it would be a huge asspull.

Reminds me of the shit they pulled in WHFB with the Phoenix Kings (who in past lore defended Ulthuan and were generally just and fair to their people), but in reality Malekith was the real Phoenix King all along and the dozen that came after he failed the test were all just cheaters.

Magnus turning loyal would be such an asspull.

He's a daemon prince. Anyone who becomes a daemon prince is a slave who could be destroyed by their god's will.

I guess you could do the "I was only pretending to be retarded!" Alpharius or Pertubo sitting in his giant black fortress realizing " hmmm maybe I was the one who was autistic"

But then again, how could anyone involved in 10,000 years of shit and slaughter suddenly see the light?

Its easier to see a loyalist primarch turn traitor due to the fuckerey of the warp or because they do it for a greater good. Maybe Russ cause he's been in the warp for too long, Corax suddenly went full retard, Khan's been consumed in his quest through the webway, Vulkan wants to save humankind from within... etc. I really cant see Dorn or girlyman doing it.

Or maybe they bring a dead primarch back. Fabius 'Plot Device' Bile manages to clone someone and it goes wrong or right.

Yeah but Magnus is the only plausible one. He never wanted to go against his father hell he loved him probably the most but got played like a fool so.

I'd say most likely loyalist is Alpharius because the alpha legion's whole thing was autonomy, so if he was MIA for years they could use that as an excuse for why he's loyal despite all the shit the Alpha legion pulled.
Still an asspull, of course.

Alpharius is dead

No citation sorry but becuase you have no source wiki must edit this :)

No I'm not.

A Primarch != a whole chapter

Seen this posted several times now. There hasnt been proof provided yet. So why do you keep posting this meme?

I'm just gonna copy and paste my response from last thread. Anyone who's read the recent TSons lore knows your idea is retarded.

>Once, this greatest of magi poured every iota of his being into the furtherance of the Emperor’s goals. Now he seeks the total destruction of the Imperium. For long millennia this towering colossus has plotted the downfall of the race that cast him out as a traitor and persecuted him unto the threshold of death.

>In many ways Magnus fell furthest of all from the Emperor’s grace.

>The final defeat of the Space Wolves will be the jewel in the crown of a far-greater work – one in which the Imperium itself is tipped screaming into a sea of anarchy from which there can be no escape

Magnus and his Dust marines are not going to fit in real well with the grimdark cults of the 41st millenia

I remember reading somewhere that the TSons basically found a way to do small scale reversals of the Rubric.

I'm sure gw can force it to work if they really want to do so. Still is Magnus just going to forgive Russ and visa versa? Seems like a stretch

I think Omegon coming back would be the most likely. Hell, he could probably come back as someone else, which would let people "accept" him without the hassle of fucking traitor.

>Malekith was the real Phoenix King all along

No, he only became Phoenix King when he passed through the Flames fully.

>the dozen that came after he failed the test were all just cheaters.

That was always the case, they protected themselves from the flames with magic unlike Aenarion.

But Omegon became Alpharius when Alpharius died.

Magnus heals his legion and returns to the fold
Russ goes traitor

Well its true one of the new Eldar have the power to reverse the rubric's curse even if only temporarily...

But everyone got turned into a rubric marine AFTER the heresy and AFTER the siege of Terra. There are no loyalist thousand sons left.

I guess you could say Ahriman has nobler goals than other traitors, but breaking into the black library doesnt sound like it would be a good thing for anyone.

>Codex Astartes stipulates 1000 marines max plus support staff
>Pic clearly shows 100 marines, 5 command, 1 chaplain, 1 captain and 2 dreads
>not including techmarines, fleet, librarian, apothecarium etc....

How many support marines can a chapter have until someone gets a bit suspicious about being codex astartes?

>There are no loyalist thousand sons left.
The Imperium were gifted a chapter of them after one of their splinter cults came back

Considering that support marines are specialists, making it unlikely unlikely for a chapter to ever have many of those, a chapter with like a hundred techmarines would be looked upon as fucking exeptional. I think.
>Librarians are psykers who manage to not only become marines, but also pass the How To Not Explode Into Daemons 101 course, making them really rare
>Techmarines must be decent enough at tech to study and be augumented on Mars
>Chaplains had to be recognized by Ecclesiarchy despite rejecting the idea that Emporer's a god
Okay, I'm not actually sure if there's much to stop a chapter from having a truckload of chaplains, save for the limited number of skull helmets and rosarii.

>Codex Astartes stipulates 1000 FIGHTING marines max plus support staf
Ftfy.
And it depends. The Exorcists have a high attrition rate for Scout>Battle Brother so they have 12 Companies (10-12 being Scouts)
The 1000 also doesn't count for Crusades either. Or Marines on loan to the Deathwatch.

>How many support marines can a chapter have until someone gets a bit suspicious about being codex astartes?
10 base, 2 more for scouts, 1+ for each crusades, then recruit a shit ton of Psykers, Chaplains, Techmarines, as they're support. 1 to the Deathwatch

15-16 or 1500-1600 before you look fishy.

>Depending on your relationships to the Inquisition, AdMech, Highlords, and/or the Church.

It's more fluffed that the process / geneseeds / attrition would be limiting them before a chapter approaches that size.

Greatest asspull of GW

when Ferrus Manus comes back as the void dragon

1000 normal base marines

As others have stated, specialist roles are rather limited. Techmarines and Chaplains require training and approval from non astartes organizations. You are limited for librarians from the number of psyker candidates are available. Theres also a limit to how many people you could have in a command squad. I guess you could have alot of apothecaries, and you could loan out a company of marines to the death watch and then raise a new company from scratch but it seems giving even a single marine at any one time is a huge deal.

A fleet based chapter would probably have alot more tech marines but most of the work would still be done by human chapter serfs.

The biggest limitation would be the geneseed process would take a long time to significantly grow hundreds of new marines at any one time. Although technically I guess if you went off the grid for a while, no one would know. And no ones really checking to see if a chapter is active or not. Look at the Space Sharks, they could have 100 marines or 10,000 and no one could know the difference since theyre all the way out in the edges of the galaxy.

Although I guess you'd then have to ask how many hundreds of years it would take a chapter to regrow from a very huge loss. You think important first founders like the ultras spend 500 years to rebuild their numbers after the battle of macragge? The blood angels and fists had to beg their successors to rebuild, although you have to wonder if the divergent geneseed make them a completely different chapter after.

Anyways im just babbling right now, the bigger thing is that GW wrote themselves into a corner with 1000 marines, when even 100,000 marines is a tiny ass number to use for a galaxy at total war and where millions of people fight and die every day. Just dont think about it too much.

And Alpharius died a second time in IA.

Alpharius died twice.

The old Alpharius died. Long live the new Alpharius!

> Alpharius died in IA
> The engagement that is not on any official records
> The engagement that even the Ultramarines deny occurring
> The one where the Alpha Legion act massively out-of-character
> Repeatedly
> Guilliman fought a dude in shiny armour, with no psychic aura or death-scream
> The Alpha Legion didn't even notice 'Alpharius' dying
> Entire engagement is otherwise a crushing loss at worst, for the Ultramarines

It either didn't happen, or it wasn't Alpharius.

ITT

>And Alpharius died a second time in IA.

Said a report from a known Alpha Legion plant that the Ultramarines said they had record of.

Wasn't there a rumor going around that Manus ended up with the Legion of the Damned as a "silver handed giant among the black clad revanents" or something like that?

Alpharius lives in death!

can't kill the messiah

Hail Hydra!

Ferrus was killed by Fulgrim, though Fulgrim keeps cloning Ferrus in an effort to convince the clones to turn Traitor. It always fails, so he always has to put the Clone down.

The silver-hands are not genetic, so the clones do not have them.

That being said, if any Traitor Primarch did go loyal, I'd like it to be Angron. Motherfucker has been a Slave all his life. It'd be nice to see him break the Chains that bind him, even if it kills him.

Horus was loyal all along and he and the Emperor staged the great Heresy for Reasons.

Grey Knights were really chaotic eldar all along.

>your reaction when it's two of the unknown Primarchs, making GW change literally nothing

Most chapters had more chaplains until the skull mines of sirius dried up.

Wolfwolf wolf their way into heresy, because they're fucking khornate heretics already.

Iron Warriors get a pat on the head from papa and with no Dorn, they fill the void they were always meant to fill

>"I, Cato Sicarius...."

Mfw

I'm reminded of a bit of writefaggotry I saw a while back about Logar and Angron's conversation immediately after the latter's accent to daemonhood. For a brief few moments after the transition, with the effects of the Nails wiped away but Khorne's wrath yet to fill him, he knew peace.
>"This... Is this happiness, brother?"

Long live Alpharius

Russ turns traitor.
Magnus turns loyalist.

POTTERY

Fulgrim is going to break out. No idea about which loyalist is going to fall.

>your reaction when Alpharius (who was loyal) turns traitor and Omegron (who was a traitor) turns loyalist.
>your reaction when no one can tell them apart anyway.

Guilliman

>NATFKA's latest rumour is
>You won't believe this
>I've heard it from a couple of people
>About 8th edition of 40K
>Which will have a new name

>Age of the Emperor


So, what's a good rumour site, Veeky Forums? Because apparently the one I use is either run by a charlatan or a retard

I came here to post this.

Bolter & Chainsword rumors section

between support, command staff, vehicle crews and officers for their fleet you could be looking at as many as 1500 brothers easily.

Lion'el Johnson is the only one that makes any sense, because a traitor primarch has to pose a threat to the Imperium on a massive scale. The Dark Angels are still at Legion strength. No other singular chapter can match the fully combined wrath of the Dark Angels in martial strength. Only the sons of Ultramar can be their equal.

Besides, the other candidates don't make sense.

-Guilliman-is-really-Alpharius is buttclenchingly retarded and would wreck havoc on GW's sales, amongst other things
-Guilliman turning "traitor" in forming another Imperium Secundus would make sense, but Guilliman made a promise to see the Emperor with Cypher
-Corax is either just purging in the warp, possibly alongside Leman Russ, or the warp tides carried him to the hunter predation fleet which he exiled where he has since fought alongside for 10k years
-Russ is partying in the warp with his fellow wolfbros
-Vulkan is basically waiting for his sons to find him on his own personally forged Starkiller Base
-Ferrus Manus is the spectral unliving primarch of the corporeal Legion of the Damned, starring as the Headless Horseman

that be ame the case in End Times bullshittery.

before that the phoenix kings were rightfully elected and passed through the flames.

Lion goes traitor

Alpharius goes loyal

Alpharius is dead
More than likely Omegon goes loyal after learning the truth about Alpharius unless there is a loyalist clone of Horus

No. They always had mages shield them.
They were elected, but Asuryan never gave a shit about elections. No one elected Aenarion.

Honestly i don't even bother with rumour sites, just use Veeky Forums. Anything posted elsewhere gets mentioned here fairly quickly and collectively we manage to filter much of the bullshit.

you forgot the Khan.
everyone forgets the Khan.

I think the best pairing, thematically, would be Magnus and Russ. Their rivalry was perhaps the greatest of the Primarchs and if one switched sides it would be quite appropriate for the other to do the same.

However, Magnus is so far gone that him becoming a loyalist is highly unlikely. This is disappointing, given that there are some very good reasons for Russ to turn (long term warp exposure, mutating into Wulfen, the loss of Fenris).

I really don't see any of the deamon primarchs turning loyal, they're to far gone.
Which really just leaves Alpharius and/or Omegon for turning loyal. They could do something interesting with only 1 twin becoming loyal (or revealing that they always were) and the traitors or secrets loyalists thing of the alpha legion.

Russ or Corax are the most likely candiates for turning traitor since they've both dissappeared into the Eye, Russ is more likely though IMO.

>the loss of Fenris
Fenris wasn't cadia'ed, Fenris fully recovered after Magnus attack

>I really don't see any of the deamon primarchs turning loyal, they're to far gone.
Cure returns and becomes loyal, AVE DOMINUS NOX!
>Russ or Corax are the most likely candiates for turning traitor since they've both dissappeared into the Eye, Russ is more likely though IMO.
Russ is Phil Kelly favourite chapter primarch, believing him falling to chaos is like assuming eldar will get a shit codex next edition.

If any primarch would turn traitor I would bet on the Khan going rouge

>Girlyman attempts to seize control of the Imperium and fix this shit
>Pisses off the church and high lords
>They tell him to GTFO, as they don't want to lose their power
>Girlyman betrays the Imperium (turning traitor) to start his own empire

>No, there is no blackjack and there are no hooked.

>hookers

Fuck you auto correct and fuck you phone.

>>No, there is no blackjack and there are no hookers.
Guilliman has new master to serve instead of corpse god.

according to the end times material.

You're all forgetting Magnus's shards. At least one was loyal enough to get Khan to go loyal, and one got bound into another dude and morphed into Janus, one Grey Knights founder.

>No blackjack and no hookers
YOU CALL THIS SHIT AN EMPIRE GIRLYMAN?

Gork is Mork, while Mork was actually Gork all along.

What a twist!

Guilliman turns traitor, Lorgar can't stand being on the same side as him and turns loyalist.

...

Lorgar then gets to happily chill with his Cult of the Emporer buddies. It all makes sense!

They dont need to reverse that shit, there is an entire chapter with fresh TS geneseed in the Imperium already.

The Iyvraine reversed time and got a squad back in flesh and bone before they got killed. However that brings us back to the first of problems, the fucking flesh change.

>after one of their splinter cults came back
you mean the entire fucking fleet that Magnus sent away? and that now happen to be fucking kleptomaniacs?

They were gifts, user.
Magnus got them as an apology for being a deadbeat prinarch.

Traitor: Lion
Redeemed: Magnus

>Loyalist clone of Horus
>restores Lunar Wolves
>Russ and Space Wolves go traitor
>Now Lunar Wolves are the wolf wolfing wolfington chapter
It all makes sense

not much an asspull
turning traitor doesn't have to mean joining chaos - it simple could mean rogue or renegade

My guess is Lion turns renegade
Alpharius joins Emprah

>Alpharius
>Lionel

The most likely candidates are Khan and Perturabo though. Alpharius and his legion are too far gone, so is Lionel.

Not Perturbo, he's gone full deamon prince.
Only way he's leaving chaos is death.

Well, I don't think it's fully recovered yet but it sure isn't dead and gone.

Why Khan though?
Why not Russ?

Perty's an autist who hates his dad and fucking loves chaos. He's one of the most dedicated to chaos, second only to lorgar. Magnus, or alpharius/omegon, or fucking mortarion are more likely to change sides than Perturabo; Pert despises tyrants and everything they stand for, and switched sides the instant he discovered that he *could* switch sides.

Then all-psyker legion mode. Or just use Blood Raven geneseed.

>people think Magnus, the daemon prince, is gonna come back to the fold

Alpharius is a good guy.

Or Night Haunter isn't actually dead since the Nightlords only ever paid lip service so it'd 'make sense' for them to come back. He's also not been confirmed to be dead since the vid of him being killed was cut short. Also I don't remember him actually being a daemon prince.

>protecting the Imperium

Dark Angels were always ultra dickish. They purged entire planets if they showed chaos corruption in the slightest and have specifically targeted their 'remnant' factions like monsters despite the Fallen and Cipher being pro-imperium/anti-chaos in general because they know their deep dark secret.

Im betting Lion was chaos corrupted and the captain who was MEANT to be chaos corrupted beat him.

Alpharius meme is overused here and underused by GW, probably they'll never give AL any relevance. They are just a sort of cell insurgents to blame for fostering traitor uprisings like in the Macharian Heresy and just all.

Russ returning and converted would imply giving even more relevance to the SW in the setting, which is quite a lot by now.
Just imagine the tons of pages GW would write about wolves lamenting and crying by his loved Primarch blah blah

They don't deserve to have so much attention

Recently awaken from stasis primarch of Ultramarines will turn traitor, right after assuming control over Imperium.

>Slaanesh is kill in 40k
>GW replaces xer with the wolf god, gold of wolves and wolfkind
>chaos wolves new skaven

...

>What do you mean a "support tactical company"?
>That's just another entire company!

And to show that Aenerion entered the flame differently.

This is all from the 4th edition army book, released 1993, a full 21 years before the end times.

Holy Shit
>age of sigmar has nurgle and added the horned rat. Both represent plague.
>40K will have both Russ and Khorne representing rage.

No, no, no, they are all actually vehicle drivers. Sometimes, while not enough vehicles are available for use, they must unfortunately support the main force on foot.

Once again I remind you that this chapter complies completely with, and is utterly committed to, the Codex Astartes.

Nobody the anal circumference great enough to manage to actually pull this out of their ass. I can only assume your post exists still in your ass.