/SIFG/ - A Song of Ice and Fire General

Is the Night's Watch conservative faction literally retarded? I get why they would want to launch a coup, Jon was doing some pretty fucking questionable and probably stupid stuff, but I have no fucking idea why they would launch it when they did.

After he let the wildlings through and set them up in castles so that the brothers were horrifically outnumbered and no longer had any sort of equipment or fortification advantage? When, as far as they know, Ramsey motherfucking Bolton is on the way to demand they hand over a bunch of people they know they can't produce? After Jon said he was leaving on a suicide mission to stop Ramsey anyway? IMMEDIATELY after he invited a bunch of the wildling movers and shakers to follow him on that suicide mission and they all basically replied with "FUCK YEAH, DYING FOR JON SNOW!"?

I genuinely cannot imagine a worse sense of timing.

I haven't seen or followed any of the TV stuff(they've passed the books, right?) since I don't have HBO, so I dunno if they had a brilliant step 2, but god damn their step 1 seems really dumb.

Most of them wanted Jon dead for a long time but they had no legal grounds to kill him. If Jon actually won his battle against the Boltons, he would have too much political power, there would be no way to take him out after that.

They had legal grounds the very instant he said "huurr, let like a billion wildling through the wall." Or when he first started sucking off Stannis. Those are both oath breaking plain and simple.

Instead they waited until after there were tens of thousands of armed people who owed Jon their lives among them and specifically, until right after hundreds of those people's big names had sworn to follow Jon into hell. They have *already* let the situation get to a point where recovery seems hopeless.

If someone kidnaps you and you pull a gun from your holster and shoot them in the head, good for you.
If someone kidnaps you and you pull a gun from your holster and shoot them in the head from the back seat while they are driving down the interstate at 90 mph, you done fucked up.

>They had legal grounds the very instant he said "huurr, let like a billion wildling through the wall."

No, they didn't. The NW never swore to not let wildlings pass through the wall. The wildlings are not even their real enemies in the first place. It's not treason to help wildlings.

>Or when he first started sucking off Stannis.

It wasn't treason either. Stannis could take anything he wanted at sword point, Jon actually prevented him from taking the NW's castles and giving them to his men(which would've been treason). Jon actually broke his vows when he decided to march against another Westeros lord.

>Jon actually broke his vows when he decided to march against another Westeros lord.

Even that is debatable. Ramsey directly threatened the Watch which opened up the door for Snow and crew to march against him as self-defense.

I'm not denying that he didn't have personal reasons to do so but in an official capacity he wasn't technically violating his duties.

Question for /asoiaf/:

Would an aSoIaF tabletop wargame have any potential?

Not in the sense of whether or not it would be successful - that seems to be anyone's guess nowadays, regardless of the IP - but in terms of gameplay.

I know FFG had a version of Battlelore set in Westeros but it was pretty limited and as far as I know no human beings ever actually played it.

It doesn't matter what Ramsay said, the NW vows are clear: They can't march south. Jon committed treason.

Their vows say they can't take part in the internal affairs of Westeros. If someone is stupid enough to take those affairs to them by force, however, I fail to see how they wouldn't be allowed - if not expected - to respond in kind.

If the Watch can't defend itself then they can't defend the realm in which case they're not doing their job.

They can defend themselves, but Jon wanted to march on Winterfell for personal reasons and everyone in the NW knew that. None of them would care about handing over Melisandre and a bunch of wildlings to the Boltons.

>None of them would care about handing over Melisandre and a bunch of wildlings to the Boltons

Which would have been taking sides in the internal affairs of Westeros as well. Stannis wasn't threatening the Watch with destruction if they didn't support him in the war; the Boltons were.

Well, handing over hostages and directly attacking a castle are not on the same level. All the other things he could argue he had no choice, but marching south with an army of wildlings? Nah.

Unless Stannis' people and the Wildings are willing to go peacefully to Ramsey and presumably turned into human drapes then the Watch is going to have to take them by force in order to hand them over to the Boltons.

So basically Jon has two choices: either take up arms against the Baratheons and the Wildings or take up arms against the Boltons. And only one of those groups have directly threatened the Watch (while the other has offered to help them take up arms against an existential threat to the entirety of Westeros).

Yes, Jon has personal motivations and yes, they are blatant, but ultimately what he proposed was still technically in the service of the Watch and their ability to perform the duties for which they were created in the first place.

There was a third option: Not do anything and IF Ramsay actually marched against the NW, Jon would have an excuse to take arms against him. Marching against Winterfell with an army of wildlings(supposedly hostages and refugees) is not plausible under any circumstance. Jon didn't even attempt to call any of his NW brothers to war because he knew he was breaking his vows.

...

Taxes?

>The Celtigars claim dominion over Crackclaw Point, but the inhabitants do not acknowledge their claim. The Celtigars occasionally send men there to collect taxes.
>If Lord Celtigar sends enough collectors, a few come back to him.