If I want to minimize the SJW bullshit, am I better going with nWoD or CofD? That is "1e" or "2e"?

If I want to minimize the SJW bullshit, am I better going with nWoD or CofD? That is "1e" or "2e"?

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You're better off not touching WoD at all.

Wew lad, I'm somewhat aware but still, c'mon. I like the concept of WoD even if I find White Wolf's politics annoying.

2e's better, overall. If the game you wanna play has 2e rules(or is Demon or, god help you, Beast), you should use them. Otherwise, your option depends on the game; for Hunter, grab the CofD core book, Hurt Locker, Hunter: Mortal Remains, and whatever other Hunter books you want(core, presumably, is one of them), and use Mortal Remains and the CofD core book to play a stop-gap version of Hunter 2e. For Mummy or Geist, use the game as-written, basically, except add in all the stuff specific to 2e(Aspirations, Conditions, beats, and flat xp costs, which you can use basically as-written for stuff mortals could gain, but should refer to other splats costs for their Powers).

go find someone hosting a Dark Heresy campaign that features a slaanesh cult in it

>when you reply to the OP but the poster count doesn't go up

Does a few paragraphs or sidebars really make a game unplayable for you?

It made me hesitate but I'm ultimately going to cave and read/play it.

>If I want to minimize the SJW bullshit, am I better going with nWoD or CofD? That is "1e" or "2e"?
No.

fucking get over it snowflake.

I find it really funny how shitlibs are trying to turn the term "snowflake" around. They REALLY want to make it happen, just like they tried to force "Drumpf".

Don't like it? Then don't come crying for a safe space.

They're all really, really full of SJW stuff, because WoD was initially marketed to edgy teenagers who experiment with being goths and alternative sexualities.

It's really, really bad in 2E. There's a lot of stupid stuff in 2E like the Plain (magical Amish pacifists) and Beast - which is a whole game about being an Otherkin and fighting Gamergate.

I think nWoD didn't have that much stuff like that, but that's a drop in the bucket. You're screwed either way.

I kind of wish there were games with sort of an anti-SJW message. I've run campaigns for Exalted which were like that, and some other OWoD games, but you can't get away from the source material.

> We'll force our politics into tabletop rulebooks, and then call everyone who doesn't like it crybabies!
Genius strategy.

Yeah, it's like your dad trying to get down with the 'hip' parlance. It's cringe-inducing, like the Young Turks misuse of 'cuck'.

people who whine about putting in having to put in any effort into thinking outside their comfort zone on image boards are snowflakes sweetie pie!

it really is!

But doesn't that mean people won't buy your books? It's like why Marvel is desperately trying to get rid of all the minority heroes after Secret Empire is over, to the point that Nick Spencer is getting anally ruptured over it.

SJW stuff doesn't sell.

>No SJW
>WoD
You must be in your late teens or early twenties.
Back in the 90s WoD was the SJW hug box by excellence. For fuck sake the iconic Tzimisce in OWoD was a fucking transexual!
OP, I do hope this thread has been made for trolling because if you are serious the level of retardation in it is par with doing a thread asking for WH40k without the grimdark or Pathfinder without the weeb shit.

> Next WoD edition has long rants about jews owning the media and secretly controlling the world
> One of the major antagonists is not!Bildenburg group.
And suddenly, you would start screaming "get your politics out of my RPGs, reeeee!"

What is it with Veeky Forums and unhinged whining about SJWs like they're some illuminati omnipresent demon god?

>fighting Gamergate.

What about NULL SNYPER?

Then ignore the fucking fluff and stick to the crunch. This is like bitching about the Paizo Iconics lineup for being "too diverse" when it doesn't impact gameplay whatsofucking ever.

>SJW stuff doesn't sell.

World of Darkness is kinda the proof that they can. World of Darkness has always been on the crazy side of the left win. I mean, have you SEEN the political messages in oWoD Werewolf or Mage?

I agree with him, gays for some reason have mutated into master spin doctors, just like the people who think they can invent their own sexuality.

However none of it really works, it has no foundation in science.

Post some, havent seen them.

Also the only people who really play nWoD are edgy teenagers from what ive seen.

Not equivalent.

"SJW" politics in games usually means short acknowledgements of racial struggles, the existence of LGBT, or a setting fabric based on IRL social power dynamic (Blue Rose, WoD, Golarion).

Rightist politics in games means vilifying minorities and women at every turn (FATAL, Myfarog, etc)

Speaking of "post some" can somebody post the extremely passive-agressive passage from nWoD about a transexual doctor? I didn't think to save it.

Is that why they sold and rebranded the whole thing?

I mean, this shit wasn't as big in the original WoD. For instance, Hunter is the Republican militia fantasy come to life (Time of Judgement ends with the Hunters forming a civilian militia, the 'Army of Light') and Mage is arguably about Gnosticism, with the ending of Ascension being the most uplifting one there is.

Werewolf is the Captain Planet Furry game, but you know. Like, generally you weren't exactly an SJW or a faggot.

>thinking outside their comfort zone

No, ideology is not "outside comfort zone", its "outside logic zone". And i bet it annoys you that you cant change that.

> MY politics are about doing good
> YOUR politics are about doing evil
It suddenly seems so fitting that you're posting images of crying babies, since you've got mentality of a child.

>For fuck sake the iconic Tzimisce in OWoD was a fucking transexual!

This is like saying that, because Buffalo Bill is in Silence of the Lambs, the novel / film is aimed at SJWs.

>For fuck sake the iconic Tzimisce in OWoD was a fucking transexual!
>The evil mass murdering maniac is transexual
And if Nyarlathotep was homosexual, Delta Green would be a pro-gay game?

Look at Bellum Maga, where all the good guys are liberal females, and all the men are evil people. That's a hugbox.

WoD is quite inclusive, but the setting won't judge you for playing a nazi vampire instead of an anarch vampire.

Okay, what's the example of benign right-wing identity politics in a game? SJW crap is there for the inclusion of minorities, but I don't see how any game benefits from exclusivity.

Not the other guy, btw

Is complaining about SJWs somehow magically ruining every game forever the new edition wars?

Calm down bro, what hes got is an ideology. You just need to remind him that ideologies try to make the truth a simple equation and then say that that equation never changes. They also like to make facts orbit around their equation, rather than finding facts which are actually logical. Its the eternal struggle between logic and ideology.
See:
Im with ya bro.

Were they, really? I always saw '90s White Wolf as more teenage edgelord than SJW. Like Vykos for example, it always felt more like "Oooh, how bizarre and edgy, he/she/it is so inhuman and dark and evil that he/she/it is no longer a man or a woman wooo~~" and not "Xir was assigned male at birth, but now xhe is a nonbinary polygender demisexual multisouled otherkin so you better respect xorbs ever-changing pronouns you shitlord".

Add to that the fact that a bunch of their books at the time run massively contrary to the classic SJW mindset. Just read any thread on the Onyx Path forums about WOD: Gypsies or KotE.

Pretty much. The SJWs are here to take away your games and ruin your new editions.

Because, you know, WoD has never had a history of shitting out books of fine Quality like Changing Breeds and Gypsy until the SJWs got to them.

Here's a hint - neither extreme left-wing, nor extreme right-wing politics belong in tabletop. Tabletop gaming is a tool for escapism.
You can also include minorities - blacks or gays - without being offensively in your face about it. Sorry for not giving an actual tabletop example, but Dragon Age: Origins did it great. And then the sequels fucked it up.

Let me just leave this thread here.

archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51499051/

>Recently, Null Snyper discovered the adolescent man-children that exist where gamers and men’s rights activists overlap. She felt nothing but contempt for them, but she decided to try flexing her internet muscles. Instead of driving people to suicide through direct online interaction, she whipped up an angry mob to go after her targets. Through empty rhetoric and carefully coordinated campaigns of doxing and harassment, she terrorized players, game developers, and journalists in the industry who don’t share her trolls’ views. The first time she saw a man killed by police, live on webcam as a result of a swatting prank, ecstasy, unlike that from any other death she caused, filled her completely. She knew she was on the right track.

>Now she maintains a carefully cultivated legion of followers. Certain circles avidly follow Null Snyper’s exploits and celebrate her as a master troll. It only takes a word or two from her to unleash the fury of hordes of aspiring trolls longing to make a name for themselves. They’ll dox anyone or breach private accounts if it means gaining a small measure of notoriety by attaching themselves to her reputation.

She also has Allies (Internet Trolls) 5. Her legion of "adolescent man-children" wields so much clout that they can automatically cancel another character's 5-dot Social Merit, like Status (Military General) 5, for one session.

And this game's rules make it completely trivial to dox someone and get their government ID numbers and bank accounts.

No, I just wouldn't play that game. It's really not hard.

>Okay, what's the example of benign right-wing identity politics in a game?

What are right wing identity politics. just outta curiosity?

That depends on if a vampire taking a background that lets you munsturate because Menstrual Blood has great power, and so makes your blood magic beter, is something you can stand or not. Oh, BTW, if a guy takes that background they start to have periods.

That's pretty bad, but it's far from the worst nWoD has to offer.

No, but when you're doing diagonal reading and deciding if a game is worth your time or not, stuff like this is a massive redflag. I don't care about internet memes I just don't want political apology in my games.

That's not actually giving an example of right wing politics in a game.

In the Transilvanian Chronnicles, Constantinople by Night, the Clan book: Tzimisce and also the clan novels Mika/Sascha Vykos gender shift was done because of self-loathing since he was a very promising Order of Hermes wizard who got embrace by a resentful Tzimisce who he later diablerized in a funny and obscene way.
He basically swallow his sire whole through flesh warping and then regurgiated him over and over until he got bored of it
But back to the topic elements like the Technocracy, Pentex, the Camarilla and Sabbat conflict...all of those were social commentary aimed to make you feel bad and go to help the nearest hobo or fight for the rights of minorities.

Is this image really from a WoD book? This isn't photoshop?

Everything you don't agree with is political apology then?

Or basically the ENTIRE Bone Gnawer werewolf group being a social message about poverty.

>he doesn't play Twilight 2000 as a true 'murrican patriot fighting against dirty commies
>he doesn't play Age of Rebellion as a bunch of female and/or alien cadets disgruntled with the Empire and going full terrorism to make them pay.
You disgust me.

You can play everything in a rpg, as long as you remember it's a game.
INS/MV was a parody of angels, demons and french people across the entire political spectrum, for example. But since it wasn't self-righteous, I've never met anybody that had problems with it.

> How right-wing politics should be present in a game?
They shouldn't be present at all.
> You didn't answer my question!

Old WoD. You can use VtM unaltered. WtA needs either a rewrite or a recognition that the Garou are bigotted, Luddite terrorists every bit as bad as Pentex. If you're a /pol/ idiot, then WtA is the way to go, since it's racist in its foundation.

Mage is broken in its essence with postmodernist garbage, but it's highly playable if you use Mage Second edition. Wraith and Changeling have major problems that have nothing to do with politics.

Pause nWoD game mechanics, of course. The conversion is minimal.

At that point you'll be able to run a politically moderate or neutral campaign. Unlike later editions, oWoD can easily be stripped of its axe-grinding.

There aren't any.

No, it wasn't. It just approached politics and ideology in a very "extreme" exaggerated way. All ideologies. It was gonzo and satyrical, be it on purpose or accidentaly (probably the later). How was werewolf sjw if it literally had Nazi Tribe (this was retconned relatively recently but they existed) and were not antagonists?

>Benign identity politics
No such thing i'm afraid

Yeah I can't get near the new shit but back in the 90s it was really good and just as left wing. Politics in this game has always been in there and part of its success. So what? I'm a conservative but I enjoy early VtM on its own merits as an RPG.

It's when you get to the new stuff where the politics is all they have left because the quality is gone, and that the politics in the new stuff is so bad that it gets in the way of gameplay that I check out. VtM didn't go anywhere though, so why not just pretend that the last 20 years didn't happen?

I know liberals who play GURPS. Don't let politics take over your life. Quality is quality.

What exactly makes your games anti sjw?

As someone very much on the left wing, I'll agree with you.

Beast isn't bad because 'It includes politics'. Beast is bad because it's poorly written, uninspired and little BUT politics. It's the difference between a good book series written by a writer with his political views showing through because that's who he is and propaganda designed to just demonise and mock.

Are you familiar with Carl Jung? Or psychology?
Is called revulsion therapy and it was shoved all over the place because one of the setting creators is, oh surprise! A member of the American Jungian Association!
Those fools thought that people would realize that they were horrible people for enjoying the shit they did in character.
If you read anything involving the Black Furies the "they should be exterminated as soon as we stop the Wyrm" is repeated constantly when exposing their view on the other garou factions but it was done with this faulty strategy of making people think on what they are doing or enjoy roleplaying as in the setting in mind.

sjw = /pol/

They deserve each other. I just wish they'd both STFU.

Are you seriously saying you have no idea what nationalism and tribalism are?

I miss 3.5 v 4e and tohoufag doing 4e builds. Make edition wars great again.

I'm not racist but death to the inferior races.

>I know liberals who play GURPS.
What's strange about that? It would seem to me that GURPS is written from pretty neutral perspective. It's not definitely very right wing. Just see how Infinite Worlds portrays nazis and the like.

It's very simple: All the stuff they promulgate doesn't work. People, in-game, say that they're deluded or stupid. Transgender people/homosexuals inspire disgust.

If the family man is a paragon of male strength and the SJW is a screeching harridan, it's pretty obvious as to who is in the right.

How does inclusion of minorities benefit a game? Even the economic gain is minor since middle class whites (normally males) are the main market of everything in Veeky Forums. I'm not saying it's something bad, but how is it good?

Wasn't there some nWoD game that was basically about supernatural vigilantes who were literal social justice warriors?

It eases white guilt or something, I don't know.

I think those are the Plain.

Besides, isn't that sort of going against the mood of the World of DARKNESS? It's supposed to be a grim, gothic-punk world. It's the kind of world where the alt-right would be objectively right, because the world IS tremendously shit.

Like, all the SJW shit shouldn't work. If it works, the world isn't THAT dark. For instance, let's say a Vampire has some kind of sexy seduction skill. If the skill works on - say - lesbian women as well, that makes it more terrifying. You're a lesbian, and you can't help the raw attraction you feel...Because being a lesbian isn't an actual thing. To the vampire using the mind-whammy, you're still a woman and women are attracted to men.

Or if a group of protestors start rioting? In our real world, we bend over backwards to appease them. In the World of DARKNESS, Pentex should send out goon squads to shoot protestors dead, and people watching would applaud them with a "Yeah, fuck those hippies! Give 'em what they deserve!"

Hell, the neo-Nazis should be a tremendously frightening force, lead by Nephandic paragons of the Aryan race, instead of the joke they are in the real world.

That isn't what was asked. Do you want to reread the question?

Maybe it's you who's lacking reading comprehension.

So like, when Vampires attack, the redneck survivalist with all the guns is the most functional and lucid person out there?

>can you give me an example of right wing politics in a tabletop game?
>there shouldn't be ANY politics in a tabletop game
>okay, but that isn't what I asked
>it doesn't matter!

> what's the example of benign right-wing identity politics in a game
This is what you wrote, you wonderful, special individual. There is no such thing as bening politics when it comes to tabletop games. There, I spelled it out for you.

Which addition had AIDS Vampires ?
I am 100% confident that I saw those in one book.

I remember when WoD morality was "The Garou are the only ones fighting to save the planet from evil, corruption forces that seek to consume it....By destroying the world in the direction of returning to the neolithic era where everything was awful for everybody except Garou"

Exactly. It's like the Tradition-Technocracy argument. The Technocracy is slowly choking off inspiration and human imagination, yes, but it's also done a lot of good. But at the same time, they've created a gothic-punk dystopia that's an insanely shitty place to live, so maybe it's not the best anyway.

Meanwhile, the Traditions want to bring back magic and wonder...But in the High Mythic era, an era where all kinds of horrors from beyond the Gauntlet could roam freely. More, it was an era where Mages were King, because their magic could do anything and the terrified population couldn't stop them.

Like, that's actually a good question! As in turns out, in Ascension, BOTH sides are right. When Ascension happens, everyone is objectively correct but they don't lose sense of the universal truth. So M:tA is basically a LARP, with real magic.

I never said this. I don't even oppose gay acceptance. I just oppose gay acceptance being magically made mainstream in a game for the sole purpose of propaganda.

Same with racism. As an hispanic, I understand that wasp contempt is not cool. But if I saw a game where it says "mages are beyond racism because they also suffered oppression" that's a red flag and I'm removing this if I finally decide to play it. As a part of a group that suffers discrimination I can confirm you that we're the most prone to discriminate. If anything mages should be mostly bitter autists prone to hostilility towards blacks, homos, heteros, communists, muslims, buddhists and literally anything that isn't them (and then they can follow this tendency or reject it).

To put an end point, as a minority I don't feel there's more inclusion just because a wasp or jewish middle class faggot feels bad about his dad saying niggers and decided to flood his product with shallow tokens of "diversity". It's pathethic.

The Tzimisce were also always displayed as sociopathic uber-degenerates, so it's not quite the same.

>There is no such thing as bening politics when it comes to tabletop games
Of course there are. Are you dense? World of Darkness is explicitly a game wherein you are a participant in Vampire politics.

Have you considered people just don't have a problem with gay people, or that far fewer people do than in the past.

Not that guy, but I'm Asian and I loathe gay people. Sodomy is a criminal offense.

Epic.

Yeah, the main issue is how they try to normalize it, and try to cram it down your throat. They want it to be 'normal'. More than that, they want to be praised for being so oppressed and yet so open-minded.

>right-wing identity politics
Our "identity politics" consist of acknowledging the genetic differences in races, the cognitive difference in sexes, recognizing when certain sexual practices ultimately harm society in the long run and building a society based on that. It's heavily based on logical reasoning and objectivity, thought not entirely.

An example would be early DnD.

Meanwhile, the left equivalent is almost the polar opposite. Saying that there is absolutely no difference between the sexes, races, and sexual orientations while still insisting that whites, straights, and males are somehow uniformly evil and oppressive. Their arguments are based upon emotion and kneejerk reactions with some heavily flawed logic.

And example would be modern Pathfinder.

Pic very related.

Since Gypsy will likely be updated, I expect even more SJW shit

>Saying that there is absolutely no difference between the sexes, races, and sexual orientations while still insisting that whites, straights, and males are somehow uniformly evil and oppressive
Remind me again which role playing game says this?

oWoD was basically that. Fuck, anarchist vampires constantly accept that their inspiration sources failed on mortals but would work in vampires. That's literally throwing the whole irl ideology to the thrash on my book.

It seems that faulted heroes and impossible odds are becoming less and less popular.

Liberal here
Your strawman example is an accurate description of the setting of Shadowrun, a game touted by SJW as a "good game"

Just thought the coincidence was funny

exact same reason why twitter and tumblr whine about alt-rights and conservatives.
It's honestly fucking childish.

Mage 2nd Ed, the Free Council Order (aka The Degenerates)

OK that's cool but
Why you gotta spread the haterade
Have you considered
Not?

Och god, not this shit again. WoD should be called camp of darkness, the only reason people see sjw bullshit in it is because it's meant to be fucking provocative, the whole fucking thing is gay to the core. I prefer nWoD, but the only question you should be asking is "what have a better rule set" because everything alse can be completely homebrewd out, and if your idiot ass get's so triggered about a passage in a fucking rulebook just tape a peace of paper on the page that is triggering you

Having you considered being less of a faggot?

Like, if you see a man masturbating in public, you don't shuffle your feet and look away. You go up and to him and say "Don't do that, it's disgusting. You're in public - Don't you have any shame?"

If that was the case, this page would not exist or have a reason to exist. If gays are already accepted you don't need to point out that mages accept them. If gays are not accepted, there's no reason to make ALL mages accept them beyond propaganda.

That settles my (is nWoD mage 1e or 2e better)-question right away then.

The forbidden fruit is so much sweeter.

sjws and anti sjws are one and the same, both sides just sit in front of a computer and bitch about reality on the internet without doing anything about it. I'd sooner shake the hand of a guy who is active in some nazi organization than either sjws or anti sjws, and im a fucking left wing jew

There is a difference. Everyone I know, even the gays, hates and loaths Pride Parads San Francisco style. It is not about being gay, it is about how you present it and how you let your sexuality shape your life

Don't paint with a broad brush. SJWs are a small minority of insane people. Anti-SJWs are everyone who think they're insane.